Linux-Advocacy Digest #730, Volume #28 Tue, 29 Aug 00 12:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Whats a good starting point? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: How low can they go...? (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: How low can they go...? (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Linux support for IntelliEye ("sandrews")
Re: NETCRAFT: I'm confused ("sandrews")
Re: Open source: an idea whose time has come (T. Max Devlin)
Re: GUI vs Command Line: The useless war (Lee Wei Shun)
Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform - was Re: Linsux as a desktop
platform ("Christopher Smith")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Whats a good starting point?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:57:25 GMT
In article <QZOq5.7935$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Kevin Wandtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK.. I'm a Windows guy.. been using it for years. I'm also a Netware
admin
> type ... been doing that for years too.. I've played around with
Unix/Linux
> a little .. I understand the advantages .. now I want to get into it.
I'm
> not trying to become a "shun a gui, purest, nuts & bolts guru"
type .. just
> somebody who can use Linux comfortably on a desktop ... then we'll
see about
> moving into the server world.
>
> That said hat distro's do you guys recommend? I did dl Corel's latest
and
> was very impressed by the install.. I've been telling people I know
that
> Widows never installed that easy.. which surprised me since you read
about
> one of the "weaknesses" of Linux is that it's so hard to setup.
Anyway, is
> Corel a "good" place to start? What about Calera's which I hear about
a lot?
> I also have Red Hat 6.2 . Keep in mind ... I'm coming at this from a
> Windows point of view ... I'm trying to learn to be a simple user
first..
> you know ,, walk then run. My first job is to do everything on my
Linux box
> (an older Dell 233MHz) that I do on my Win98 Compaq .. Internet,
email,
> burn CD's,finance (quicken) , taxes, scanning and basic office suite.
If I
> could handle my wife's program that creates cross stitch patterns I'd
dump
> Win98 on the Compaq in a heartbeat... well at least re-configure it
as the
> smaller of a dual boot system maybe.
>
> So where does a guy start?
>
> Kevin Wandtke
>
>
I hear Corel sucks. I install about 2 RedHat 6.2 systems per week now.
Average install time is now less then 50 minutes - then EVERYTHING is
installed, and configured.
The RH install is also very easy. If you can read English and use a
mouse you will have no problem. Accept maybe for deciding on the
partitions... Anyway, in your case I doubt that would be a problem.
Normal day to day work is easy:
* Office Suite - StarOffice
* WWW and E-Mail - Nestcape
* Graphics - GQView and GIMP
* CD Burning - xtoaster and others
I can't tell you about scanning or books, because I do not have a use
for that yet.
In any case, I installed a system now for a farmer - I only charge for
my traveling plus something extra. It works out about 1/3 cheaper then
getting Windows out of the box. Yet I do the install myself and I send
my customers update CD's from time to time. They only pay for the CD
costs. The farmer could afterwards not believe the rip-off culture of
the M$ world.
You will soon agree...
Have fun.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:11:09 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, fungus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:00:33 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Jen wrote:
>>
>> On 22 Aug 2000 16:46:42 -0700, petilon
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >Many MS supporters opposed the idea of NCs
>>
>> Not to mention the buying public. Just ask Larry.
>
>
>The MS supporters prefer to keep handing over their $$$
>to get their hands on "the only(sic) operating system
>designed just for you and your home PC."
I gotta agree, Windows is the only sick operating system... :-)
>
>http://shop.microsoft.com/product/windows/msline.htm
>
>$289 for Windows ME...
>
>...that's MORE EXPENSIVE than Windows 2000 Professional.
Yeah, but look at the value-added! You get...um...
uh...quick, someone help me out here... :-)
>
>
>I don't want to get overly cynical here[1] but it seems to
>me like this is a marketing excercise to find out just how
>ignorant/gullible the "buying public" really is.
I ain't buying. I'm holding on to Windows 95 (which I rarely
use anyway) and Linux.
>
>
>--
><\___/>
>/ O O \
>\_____/ FTB.
>
>[1] I'm sure that this *must* be more that Windows 98 with a
>copy of the latest Windows Media Player added.... right?
Is that all Windows ME is? Ye gods...shades of '95 + IE4.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:13:48 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Mike Byrns
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 29 Aug 2000 04:28:22 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Joe Kiser wrote:
>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, fungus
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > ...that's MORE EXPENSIVE than Windows 2000 Professional.
>>
>> Kinda OT, but does the upgrade install over Win95?
>
>The upgrade or full versions of Windows Me and Windows 2000 Pro both
>will upgrade Windows 95 back to the first version.
Does that mean the slow, memory-hogging, no-IE-browser one? :-)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- hey, it might be an *improvement*
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:33:04 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:09:42 -0700
<8ofguf$vpb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>paul snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:CHGq5.21149$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> Suppose the hard disk crashes. I can buy another, and assuming I can lay
>my
>> hands on all my CDs, I can rebuild my machine yet again (losing only my
>> unqiue work, if I failed to transfer it too to some external storage).
>And
>> I supply all the answers to all the decision points yet one more time.
>
>Are you in the habit of discarding you installation media when you may still
>need it in the future?
>
>Once you have everything installed the way you want it just make a backup
>copy of the installation and you are all set. Under unix we already have a
>couple of very complex and capable programs that can take care of the
>situation that you have painted here.
I will also note that Windows 95 doesn't appear to mind much if one
does something as simple-minded as:
cd /; tar czf /somewhere/c.tgz c
rm -rf /c/*
cd /; tar xzf /somewhere/c.tgz
which one might characterize as a particularly stupid, but effective,
disk defragmenter, assuming one mounts one's C: drive on /c, as I do,
and has sufficient disk space. The only things that gets lost are
the hidden and system bits, which Linux pretty much ignores anyway
(and so does Windows, apparently). Note: no warranties expressed
or implied if this futzes up your system. :-)
One would surmise that this is far more effective than Win95's
disk defragmenter, pretty as it otherwise might be. (However, I
have questions regarding defragmentation anyway, as new files are
created in the clear area, which might be all the way on the
other side of the disk.)
A few other things can be done to improve fragmenting even more,
especially if one replaces tar with cpio (which takes pathnames from
standard input -- pathnames can be sorted!) or lists the files
into a shell script using sed, sorts the script, then runs it.
>They can work on a local host or with
>the assistance of a couple of other very complex programs they can work
>across the network even with multiple hosts on opposite sides of the planet
>from each other. They can backup any filesystem and any storage device, not
>just the harddrive. They can be used on non-unix hosts by using a floppy
>based mini-unix installations. What are these two programs? They are "cat"
>and "dd". So do you really think preventing repeated reinstallations is so
>complex?
One might also mention rsh/ssh, rdist, tar and cpio, and NFS mounting.
There might even be a bru, as an add-on (I don't appear to have it).
What does Windows have? Explorer, COPY/S, XCOPY, and maybe a GUI
backup tool. Far less flexible, IMO. (Of course, one could also put
GNU Tar on WinNT -- but isn't that a form of cheating? :-) )
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:47:36 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:05:51 -0300, Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>"T. Max Devlin" escribi�:
>>>
>>> Said Roberto Alsina in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>>> >"T. Max Devlin" escribi�:
>>> [...]
>>> >Neither are they required to pay TT (not Qt) a licensing fee now in
>>> >order to benefit from Linux. Max, you have no idea of what you are
>>> >talking about (again).
>>>
>>> And you, Roberto, are still trying to avoid correcting the matter. Are
>>> you so incapable of grasping abstractions that you cannot substitute
>>> "QT" for "the commercial entity responsible for QT"?
>>
>>Are you so incapable of dealing wuith reality that you can't see a
>>company and a product are not the same thing, and keep on using
>>the wrong one?
>
> I'm sorry but you've failed this sitting of the Turing Test.
>
> Please try again. But remember, you can only reschedule the
> test after 30 days and you can only take the test 3 times
> in any 12 month period.
LOL. You are a sharp one, Jedi.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:50:17 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Roberto Alsina in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" escribi�:
>
>> [...]I figure I'll come out ahead as long as I'm honest[...]
>
>You have proven here several times that you are not honest.
>So, you will not come out ahead.
>
>Thanks for playing.
And its posts like this which provide the "big money, big prizes" of the
effort. :-)
Shall we go for a bonus round? Like maybe you could show where I might
have been dishonest? Not mistaken, not wrong, but dishonest?
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "sandrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux support for IntelliEye
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:45:25 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ajeroth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a USB IntelliEye mouse, which I like enough not to want to swap
> it back to the PS/2 mouse that originally came with my system.
>
> I used to have OpenCaldera 2.2 on my old 400Mhz Amd k6-2 with a ps/2
> mouse and managed to bring back some memories of my University Unix
> days.
>
> Now, however, I have a 750Mhz Athlon with a GeForce2 GTS (working
> overtime is good for something after all!) and of course this new mouse.
> Are there any drivers that will run under linux for it? Considering that
> it is a Microsoft mouse, this many not be possible.
>
> I don't particularly want to change mice every time I want to run a
> different OS.
>
> And Im posting to this group as my company do not have any other linux
> newsgroups.
>
> Ta, Lee
>
I have a IntelliEye mouse hooked up as a ps/2 mouse using the adapter that came with
it (USB to ps/2)
and it works just fine. Use imwheel and the wheel will work as well.
You will need to fixup /etc/X11/XF86Config as follows:
in the pointer section:
# **********************************************************************
# Pointer section
# **********************************************************************
Section "Pointer"
Protocol "IMPS/2"
Device "/dev/mouse"
ZAxisMapping 4 5
Buttons 5
Later Dude
------------------------------
From: "sandrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NETCRAFT: I'm confused
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:55:39 -0500
In article <m%Fq5.8022$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Erik Funkenbusch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > That depends on what you mean by market share. When I say market
>> > share,
> I
>> > mean the number of servers that have IIS on them, versus the number
>> > of servers that have Apache on them. Not the number of domains that
>> > are
>> hosted
>> > by each server application.
>>
>> Typical wintroll crap. "Market Share" _by definition_ means a
>> percentage
> of
>> total sales for the market:
>>
>> "Ratio of sales of company's product or product line to the total
>> market
>> sales for that product or product line. "
>>
>> "Expressed as a percentage. "
>>
>> (source: http://www.rpi.edu/~holmec/ms.html)
>>
>> Thus if Apache's sever count is growing faster than IIS's server count,
> MS's
>> market share is _dwindling_, because the MS's ratio of servers to the
> total
>> is getting smaller. (Basic 7th grade math.)
>
> But that's just it. Apache's server count may *NOT* be growing faster
> (and probably isn't). The Apache *HOSTED DOMAIN* count is growing
> faster. That does not equote to the number of server installations
> (which would be the most equivelant "Ratio of sales of company product
> or product line to the total market sales for that product or product
> line."
>
>> > Only when you define "market share" as "percentage of hosted
>> > domains".
>>
>> That's what it is. Unless you want to redefine _IS_.
>
> No. Market share is the number of installed servers. NOT the number of
> hosted domains.
>
> If I go out and register 1000 domains and point them all to the same
> site, that's not 1000 installations of Apache. That's one installation
> with 999 aliases.
>
>
>
Beans! The netcraft numbers are as good as any one can get. The numbers speak for
themselves.
How come when m$ pays or publishes numbers we are to take them as fact, but when
someone publishes numbers that show real world useage the wintrolls say they are not
representive of the true world and must be adjusted to show m$ is in the lead????
Get over it wintrolls Apache owns the web.
--
Proud to be 100% microsoft FREE !
MSCE: Making Computers Slow Everyday
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Open source: an idea whose time has come
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:02:04 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said David Goldstien in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>In article <8od3o2$5qf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> phil hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
>> >One idea that I don't think is used often enough is to release software
>> >on a time-delayed open source licence: it is released as proprietary, but
>> >will revert to open source after a time delay has occurred.
>>
>> Sort of like what's happened with some of the older 3D game
>> engines, such as Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Descent 1 and 2, and
>> Marathon 2.
>
>You mean "abandonware"? When a company finds it is not financially
>expedient to support a piece of software anymore, they hand it over to
>the open source groupies to play with?
I think Phil meant sort of like that, but with an announced up-front
time period. Sort of like what Sun does with their specs, if not their
software, like NFS, NIS, Sbus, and hopefully, some day, Java. They
don't give an up-front time period, but their strategy is purposefully
to maintain the spec as proprietary (but not closed) only long enough to
ensure that it can not be 'hijacked' by some other private commercial
interest. There is still value in it, so it isn't quite the same as
your "not expedient to support" 'abandonment' of a piece of software
which is worth, essentially, nothing.
Actually, I did have the thought that Phil's suggestion is actually a
kind of "patent by convention", in which the limited time of protection
provides sufficient opportunity to encourage initial development, but
the relatively short duration (in comparison to the lifetime of the
potential value of the development) encourages competition.
This highlights the parallel between the "time delay open source"
suggestion and Sun's business strategy. Sun is essentially uses trade
secret licensing to protect their 'technology' which is not appropriate
for patent protection. Rather than assume, as most due, that
monopolization is the key to success, Sun recognizes that *competition*
is the key to *profits*, and is more than happy to restrict their
technologies even less than a patent would allow, if it were
appropriate.
I'm wondering what some research on Sun's actual patent behavior might
say in this regard. Any suggestions?
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Lee Wei Shun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GUI vs Command Line: The useless war
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:01:22 +0800
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<snip>
>
> BTW: Is there any decent commercial web based system management systems
> you know of? Please let me know. I would like to get some ideas... lol
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
See http://www.webmin.com/webmin/
Regards,
Wei Shun
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform - was Re: Linsux as a desktop
platform
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 02:16:36 +1000
"D. Spider" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> There, everything that deserved a reply (and some stuff that didn't)
> from all 4 of your posts are answered, and in the interests of my
> signal to noise ration you are now going in my killfile - anyone that
> comes out with such a tone of superior knowledge as you have, while
> making so many incredibly ignorant statements at the same time, is
> presumed to be a troll and dealt with accordingly.
>
> Good day.
Excellently said.
*plonk*
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:06:16 GMT
"Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:paOq5.282$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> So? Should we feel sorry for them? I'll pay for winblows when they bring
out
> a version i actually enjoy using...
>
> Amon_Re
Don't use it if you don't want to pay for it. End of story. Heck - run Wine
or something. But if you won't pay for it, don't use it.
Simon
------------------------------
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