Linux-Advocacy Digest #286, Volume #29 Sun, 24 Sep 00 11:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: The Government's Decision to Use Microsoft (lyttlec)
Re: [OT] Tholen & Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools) (MOUL est)
Re: [OT] Tholen & Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools)
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Andres Soolo)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) ("Boyle M.
Owl")
Re: TEST---DO NOT READ (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) (STATIC66)
Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT ("PistolGrip")
Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT ("PistolGrip")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lyttlec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Government's Decision to Use Microsoft
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:01:55 GMT
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, lyttlec
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Sun, 24 Sep 2000 03:39:56 GMT
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >lyttlec wrote:
> >>
> >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >> >
>
> [snip for brevity]
>
> >> > I'll have to try dividing by 0 on both operating systems the next
> >> > chance I get. :-)
> >> >
> >> > [.sigsnip]
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random NaN here
> >> I just did a program with lots of divide by zero for both Windows95 and
> >> Linux. It just printed out the values of 1/sin(x) where x would pass
> >> through 0. The first time under Linux, the application died but not the
> >> OS. A change got it to print NaN and continue. Under Windows95 (using MS
> >> VisualC++ 5.0) neither died, but I got a garbage number.
> >In the process of doing the above I wrote the following program :
> >
> >// hello.cpp
> >// prints hello world
> >
> >
> >#include <iostream.h>
> >#include <string>
> >#include <math.h>
> >using namespace std;
> >
> >inline void pr_message(string s = "Hello Russ!")
> >{cout << s << endl; }
> >
> >int main()
> >{
> > pr_message();
> > for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++){
> > cout << 1/sin(i)<< endl;
> > }
> >}
> >
> >It compiles and runs with g++, and Borland C++ Builder 4.52 and others,
> >but under VC++ 5.0 I get lots of errors saying such things as "std is
> >not a namespace" and that "<<" does not have a right hand operator of
> >type string.
>
> I know; we have to deal with that as well.
> #define __STL_NO_NAMESPACE 1
> at the top of your file should work around that, or you
> can just prefix 'std::' to string everywhere.
>
> A bit dumb, I know; no other OS we port to has this problem.
>
> >
> >Anyway, when I get all versions to compile and run :
> >g++ gives inf as the result of divide by zero ( it should if I read the
> >standard correctly)
> >
> >Borland gives a "divide by zero" message and dies. The application dies,
> >but not the OS
>
> Well, there you have it, folks; programs generated by Borland's compiler
> can't divide by 0 without crashing. :-)
>
> Mind you, I suspect exactly this sort of thing in the case of
> the Yorktown. The OS remained unaffected, but the app croaked.
>
> I think the popular press can't tell the diff between an app crash
> and an OS crash. (It's not their area of expertise, admittedly.
> So what? I would probably be terrible at writing bylines. :-) )
>
> >
> >VC++ prints 1.#INF.
> >
> >What gives? I don't expect the Borland to be correct, as it is too old.
> >But does the gnu project and I read the standard wrong or is it MS?
>
> Looks like it's a Borland-specific problem, at this point -- or
> perhaps the program's creator simply didn't think to wiggle something
> correctly to prevent app crashes upon div by 0 errors. I'd have
> to look -- I have Borland C++ 4.51 here.
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
I got it to work with the #define __STL_NO_NAMESPACE 1 and then by
casting string to c_string : S.c_str()
Looks like VC++ has a problem with namespaces and with strings ( << and
>> are supposed to be defined for C++ strings).
The exe file for VC++ is 142KB, for g++ it is 28KB, and for Borland
101KB.
So much for VC++ being the most standard compliant C++ compiler.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MOUL est)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Tholen & Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:51:27 +0000
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:50:17 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathaniel Jay
Lee) in comp.sys.mac.advocacy wrote:
>Joe Malloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spoke thusly:
>>Tholen tholes, unfortunately for everyone save him:
>>
>>> > My second point: show some goddamned originality.
>>>
>>> Why should I waste originality on someone like Mark Kelley?
>>
>>Nathaniel, you have to realize, Tholen *can't* be original, he *must* employ
>>his stock phrases because that's all he has. If ever he were to enter into
>>the spirit of a debate, he'd be lost...which, come to think of it, isn't
>>that bad of an idea...
>>--
>>
>>"USB, idiot, stands for Universal Serial Bus. There is no power on the
>>output socket of any USB port I have ever seen" - Bob Germer
>>
>>
>
>Yeah, sometimes I'm thick headed enough to actually think
>that people are basically interested in stimulating and
>intelligent conversation. Sometimes it takes me a while
>to realize that there are those people that just are so
>totally enthralled with their own stupidity that even when
>given the oportunity to learn something, they refuse on
>the grounds that 'learning is the key to losing my soul'.
>
>Tholen and hard-core Christian activists probably have a
>lot in common. Rational thought flees them like flies
>flee a fly swatter. And the few rational thoughts that
>don't escape, well, they probably end up in the same shape
>that the flies that don't escape do.
Hard-core Christian activists (zealots) would impale tholen on a
sharpened stake to punish his perversions.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Tholen & Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:51:27 +0000
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:03:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] in
comp.sys.mac.advocacy wrote:
>Sam Morris writes:
>
>> My god, Dave, pick an address to deflect spam and keep it!
>
>I have, Sam.
>
>> Stop changing it every five minutes!
>
>I haven't, Sam.
>
>> Killfiling you is really hard!
>
>You got suckered by Moul, Sam. They're not my postings, but Moul's.
>Unfortunately, you just gave him a reason to continue his charade,
>because you just provided proof that he's succeeding in misleading
>people.
He's talking about you, not me, you masturbation-addicted lab monkey
(MALM).
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: 24 Sep 2000 14:29:56 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Are you an idiot? Are you a silly troll who can do nothing but start
>> flamewars? Do you have to hide your stupid drivel by asking questions?
>> When it turns out you're flat wrong, do you have to cover your butt my
>> pointing out that you were only asking questions? Are your posts even
>> worth reading?
> Mine are. Yours are not. PLONK You just hit the killfile here and for all
> those I feed.
So you have to censor ideas that contradict with yours from your
relatives?
What does that say about your estimation of their intelligence?
Or your self-esteem? :-)
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Real Programmers don't write in FORTRAN.
FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies.
------------------------------
From: "Boyle M. Owl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 10:34:15 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Richard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:18:42 GMT, Richard wrote:
>> >No, I'm asking that they stop writing code without doing explicit
>> >architectural design first. And if they can't do such design then
>> >let someone else do it.
>>
>> Why should they ? In fact, why should any hobbyist be forced to
>> pursue their hobby according to your guidelines ?
>
> Because bad music only makes people's ears bleed while bad software
> drives people insane?
>
> And hey, I'm fine with hobbyists writing crap software so long as
> they never distribute it ....
You, sir, are a loonie and a troll.
People are free to run whatever software they wish to run. If *you*
don't like "non-professionals" writing code, then jusd don't run any
of their code. But don't say that hobbyists should be banned from
writing code and distributing it. Are *you* going to be the final arbiter
of what's good and bad code? Heaven forbid that someone would
write something that would be creative but not *quite* up to your
"high standards" whatever they may be.
Shut up, troll.
FOAD.
HTH.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
- Tom Tomorrow
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: TEST---DO NOT READ
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:35:41 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Jacques Guy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sun, 24 Sep 2000 08:18:36 +0000
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Juan Manuel Ramos wrote:
>
>> TEST TEST TEST TEST
>
>TESTES -- DO NOT SQUEEZE
TEATS -- DEFINITELY SQUEEZE
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: STATIC66 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:46:09 GMT
On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:40:52 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (david
raoul derbes) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Courageous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> A fair number of pretty wealthy Americans pay *no tax whatsoever* in this
>>> country. There are all manner of tax shelters and dodges that wealthy
>>> people can avail themselves of, ...
>>
>>You make it sound so easy.
>>
>>If you truly understand this to be true, you can describe,
>>in simple English, the simple accounting to make this happen.
>
>I believe that a little research will reveal those lucky Americans who
>have a net wealth of several tens of millions who paid no tax, none,
>last year. How they did it I don't know; I am neither an accountant
>nor an attorney. People who are in a position to know (Cokie Roberts
>on ABC's "Sunday Morning" and Nina Totenberg on NPR) have said over
>the years that there are such people (not a hell of a lot, under
>a thousand), and I believe them.
>
1. "Lucky" americans huh?? What kind of mush is in your head ??
Couldn't possibly be that someone in their family *WORKED* very hard
to build their wealth. And it is somehow bad that they are trying to
hold onto as much of it as they can for future generations of their
families?? I don't think so. Hell It doesn't matter if they want to
burn it ALL, it belongs to them...Taking it from them and giving it to
someone who hasn't earned it isn't the answer. The FACT is we are
terribly over taxed.
2. If you base your facts on those SPOONFED to you by Cokie Roberts,
you are a FOOL.
3. Nader.. now theres a solution HA! Just what we don't need, the
enviro-nazi green party in power (guess you like being a slave to opec
and paying these insane fuel prices.) ..The planet was here before
us, it will be here after us. It always wins, all you enviro-nazi's
are really pretentious to think that we humans are going to destroy
this planet. your vision is really small...
>Try Nader's web site, or Google.
>
>David Derbes [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
>>
>>C//
>
------------------------------
From: "PistolGrip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:51:02 -0500
"C Lund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <q76z5.14589$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > He made a statement that Win98 and Windows 2000 are essentially the
> > same product and then, when we told him he was nuts, he wanted us to
> > prove to him that, essentially, water was wet.
>
> Nope. I wanted a few examples of the things that were different. Is that
> so much to ask? One of you fellow Wintrolls even provided such a list.
> That list gave me the impression that the differences between W2K and W98
> is essentially "under the hood"; ie same sucky interface but things just
> "work better" (in theory, anyway), and the ease with which he provided a
> compact list demonstrated that "dc" was stalling because he doesn't really
> know what the differences are and wouldn't admit it.
Well... can't believe I'm jumping in the silly argument. But, what version
of NT/2000 are we talking about?
I'll point out a *few* things W2k has that Win9x doesn't.
First let's try Win2000 Professional :
SMP Support - Support Multiple CPU's
NTFS - Highly Secure Encryptable File System
Narrator - Highly successful Accessability Feature to help Handicap Users.
IIS v5.0 - WWW Server and Administration
SMTP Service - Email Service
FTP Service - FTP Server
RAD - Remote Deployment Service
Message Queuing Services - Network Communication Services
RIP Listener - Routing Updates for RIP Protocol
Print Services - Mac and Linux Printer Service
Telnet Server - Telnet Server / Administration Service
Driver Certification - Assure Drivers are Certified and not Tampered with.
Offline Files and Folders - Keep updated mirror of Network Data available
offline when not connected to the Network.
Data Synchronization - Lets you compare and update your offline files and
folders with those on the network
IrDA Support - Provides secure, wireless communications between two Windows
2000-based computers using the popular infrared protocol.
IEEE 1394 - Complete Firewire Support
Kerberos Authentication
MMC - Provides a centralized and consistent environment for management tools
Then we'll try Win2000 Server :
SMP Support - Support Multiple CPU's
NTFS - Highly Secure Encryptable File System
Narrator - Highly successful Accessability Feature to help Handicap Users.
IIS v5.0 - WWW Server and Administration
SMTP Service - Email Service
FTP Service - FTP Server
RAD - Remote Deployment Service
Message Queuing Services - Network Communication Services
RIP Listener - Routing Updates for RIP Protocol
Print Services - Mac and Linux Printer Service
Telnet Server - Telnet Server / Administration Service
Driver Certification - Assure Drivers are Certified and not Tampered with.
Offline Files and Folders - Keep updated mirror of Network Data available
offline when not connected to the Network.
Data Synchronization - Lets you compare and update your offline files and
folders with those on the network
IrDA Support - Provides secure, wireless communications between two Windows
2000-based computers using the popular infrared protocol.
IEEE 1394 - Complete Firewire Support
MMC - Provides a centralized and consistent environment for management tools
DNS Server - Full Featured DNS Server
DHCP Server - Full Featured DHCP Server
RRAS - Routing and Remote Access allows complete network routing and remote
access / VPN support.
Active Directory - Security infrastructure provides a focal point of
security management of users, computers and devices
Server Clustering Support
Kerberos Authentication
There's tons more new things in all versions of W2K that are not available
in Win9x.
Here's some other stuff to chew on :)
The Windows 2000 Professional operating system performs significantly better
than Windows 95 and Windows 98, and is comparable to Windows NT 4.0 in tests
running the most popular business applications, according to ZD Labs, an
independent testing service. Windows 2000 is significantly faster than
Windows 95 and Windows 98 on systems with 64 MB or more of memory and
significantly faster than Windows NT 4.0 on configurations with 32 MB. With
64 MB of RAM, Windows 2000 was 32 percent faster than Windows 95 and 27
percent faster than Windows 98.
In addition to the many new desktop features that have been added to Windows
2000 Professional such as Plug and Play, power management, a single binary
code-base for all languages worldwide, IntelliMirrorT management
technologies, and many others, the performance on the desktop is
significantly faster than that of Windows 95 or Windows 98 and comparable to
that of the Windows NTŪ Workstation 4.0 operating system (see Figure 1
below). By optimizing fundamental system services such as memory management,
registry access, and disk I/O, Windows 2000 is able to deliver the added
benefit of new features while delivering increased performance.
Windows 2000 is gigabit ready. This means that Windows 2000 is capable of
sustaining the highest levels of network throughput using gigabit adapters.
For example, using network adapters designed to use the advanced
Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) features in Windows
2000, such as TCP/IP checksum offloading and "large send" support, Windows
2000 can deliver up to 25 percent better network throughput than Windows NT
Server 4.0 (see Figure 2 below) and sustain close to 4 gigabits per second
(Gbps) of data throughput.
Now, I'm really not an 'advocate' for any OS. I use them all, they all
serve their purpose. I can assure you though from Hand-On experience
running many many Win2000 boxes that Win2000 is *very* stable. The PDC
Win2000 Server machine has an uptime approaching 5 months. I've also manage
two Win98SE boxes that have uptimes of well over 2 months.
Dave
------------------------------
From: "PistolGrip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:52:21 -0500
"Bryant Brandon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8qg3om$9mh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Stuart Fox"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> @"Bryant Brandon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> @news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> @> In article
> @> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, dc
> @> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> @>
> @>
> @> Obviously, except that the C: drive is hidden. We can only save
> @> files to a couple of network volumes, storing the physical data on a
> @> server, or we can save to a floppy. The only thing that can touch the
> @> C: drive is W2K, which seems to have a habit of slowly chewing up the
> @> disk.
> @
> @With what exactly? Presumably if it's filling up the drive you can find
> @out
> @what it is?
>
> Nope, W2K hides it. I cna't get to it at all. I just get a disk
> full error message when i try to log in.
Then either you and/or your administrator has no clue what they are doing.
I can assure you.
Dave
------------------------------
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