Linux-Advocacy Digest #251, Volume #30 Wed, 15 Nov 00 13:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (Robert Kiesling)
Re: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? ("Mike")
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Jack Troughton)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Stuart Fox)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (Tim)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Christopher Smith")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("PLZI")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (.)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: I WANT WIN2k drivers! (.)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
From: Robert Kiesling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:26:42 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donn Miller) writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Harri Haataja) writes:
>
> > Didn't you hear about Sun and other UNIX vendors jumping for GNOME as
> > the unified UNIX desktop?
> >
> > M$ wants to hit that, I think.
>
> Funny how MS doesn't want to sue over KDE/Qt. That particular project
> accomplishes the same exact goal as GNOME, but yet I haven't heard of
> companies willing to support KDE like they have GNOME.
>
> How exactly is MS going to stop an open source project like GNOME/Gtk? This
> should be interesting. What I think they'll accomplish is stopping vendors
> like Sun from incorporating GNOME into their desktops.
>
> As before, it's funny how MS should be suing over look 'n' feel. Remember
> the Macintosh and the Amiga?
Can you post that URL again? There were several items that I missed.
I think that Trolltech's being a European companiy has a lot to do
with it, as well as the more public nature of GNOME's funding.
Microsoft would have to think about antitrust and intellectual
property issues before they could do anything. It's not a good
time for them, I would think.
--
Robert Kiesling
Linux FAQ Maintainer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mainmatter.com/linux-faq/toc.html http://www.mainmatter.com/
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:27:36 GMT
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I use Linux all the time, I think it is a great system. I maintain a
> Windows box, but it is never used except as a TV or for Lego Mindstorms
> for my son. At work, I am fortunate in that I can use Linux.
>
> The one problem I have with many of Open Source people is this sort of
> emotional dislike for C++.
>
> I use C++ all the time, I can't even understand why someone would start
> a non-trivial project using C. C++ is a superset of C. Most C code will
> compile fine with C++, the exceptions being borderline constructs which
> are probably bad form anyway.
>
> This is not a troll! I am being serious and sincere. I am a software
> engineer / architect professionally, and I have had to argue this point
> many times with some of guys we hire. It is my role to make sure the
> right decisions are made.
>
> Under what circumstances is "C" a better choice than "C++?"
> (excluding backward compatibility in an existing product)
I don't know if this is a cause or an effect, but here are the first few
lines from "Gnu Coding Standards | General Program Design | Which Languages
to Use" : http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards_7.html#SEC7
=====================================
Which Languages to Use
When you want to use a language that gets compiled and runs at high speed,
the best language to use is C. Using another language is like using a
non-standard feature: it will cause trouble for users. Even if GCC supports
the other language, users may find it inconvenient to have to install the
compiler for that other language in order to build your program. For
example, if you write your program in C++, people will have to install the
GNU C++ compiler in order to compile your program.
C has one other advantage over C++ and other compiled languages: more people
know C, so more people will find it easy to read and modify the program if
it is written in C.
So in general it is much better to use C, rather than the comparable
alternatives.
=====================================
I switched to C++ some years ago, and after some initial false starts
(trying to use C++ as a C compiler with a few extensions), realized what OO
programming was and how it could help. For my own programming projects, I'd
never return to C. Quite frankly, I can't understand why C is the preferred
language of Gnu (more people know C is a particularly unsatisfying
explanation). Even though C++ has some pretty glaring problems, I still
prefer it to C, and I don't know of any other languages out there with the
same level of acceptance and support (and speed, before someone mentions
Java).
But maybe the reason is this: a sysadmin who worked for us several years ago
used to give interview candidates a test. They had to use vi to open a file
and write a K&R C program to do something. It would be compiled with the K&R
compiler on our Unix boxes. Vim wasn't allowed, nor was emacs, or nedit, or
anything else. vi comes with Unix, the others don't. Similarly, K&R C comes
with Unix, and the others don't. He had various other questions, all making
use of the most primitive subset of Unix commands and utilities. No Perl. No
Python. No tcsh. And on and on. In effect, the test was this: here's an
office from 20 years ago. Show me you can work here, and we'll hire you to
help drive our company into the future.
This never made any sense to me, but variations on the theme seem to be
pretty common. And, even though we have all the modern utilities installed,
all of our internal software development is still done in C.
At least it's not K&R.
I wish you luck, but to borrow a phrase, I think you'll have to drag
everyone else, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: Jack Troughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:23:05 -0500
Bob Lyday wrote:
>
> Marty wrote:
> >
> > "." wrote:
> > >
> > > > Not to mention the OS's that don't report uptimes at all,
> > > > such as OS/2, OS/390, SunOS4, NetWare...
There are many ways to get uptimes out of OS/2, even over the web. I
can place a simple counter on a web page that will tell me when the
system started.
> None of this is particularly relevant here. Most rational folks who
> have had dealings with Netware, OS/2, SunOS, OS/390, etc. realize that
> all of these are phenomenally more stable and reliable than NT. In
> addition, most users of OS/2 realize that it is not as stable as Unix
> and accept that. There is no argument whatsoever that Netware is a
> highly stable OS. SunOS is Unix and any Unix is about as stable as
> any other one. No one is arguing that any *nix is unstable or
> unreliable. It is a well-known fact that OS/390 is known for the five
> 9's in uptime. That is, it is up about 99.999% of the time. OS/390
> is down for about 5 minutes out of a year, while Unix is usually down
> for about 25 hours. That would make OS/390 approximately 300 times
> (!) more stable/reliable than *nix.
I would disagree somewhat. OS/2 on a server is very stable indeed.
On machines where the computer mostly works on the network instead
of on the console, I've seen uptimes of months consistently, usually
interrupted by things like power failures, hardware changes, and the
like. Basically, it's programs like Communicator 4.x that bollix it
up. Not only that, but even when Netscape's hogging the console I/O
and keeping me from accessing the machine while I'm sitting in front
of it, my servers (all running as detached processes) continue to
run just fine.
The OS/2 system is very stable; it's the console interface that's
flakey! And, if you really have to have extreme uptimes, the console
interface is easily replaceable with one that's not as pretty to
look at but far stabler in practice (mshell, tshell).
This is not possible with NT/2K.
> The argument, instead, is that NT is a stable and reliable OS, with
> vehement opinion on both sides. I was addressing this argument when I
> posted the URL. It seems the NT supporter above is saying other OS's
> are not very stable or reliable either. "You're one too!" is hardly a
> ringing endorsement for NT!
Agreed.
--
==========================================================
* Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org *
* http://jakesplace.dhs.org ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org *
* Montr�al PQ Canada news://jakesplace.dhs.org *
==========================================================
------------------------------
From: Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:15:26 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thank you, I can do it myself. What I noted is that on a NT4
> server version it is not provided. Which I find suspicious.
>
Indeed. Very suspicious that they didn't include a utility that was
only released last year in a product that they released in 1996. I
think you might be on something here. Or not.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: 15 Nov 2000 16:34:18 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Pascal Haakmat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
:>> And all the property-rights absolutists would have defended slavery
:>> on the ground that ordering the slaves freed would have set a dangerous
:>> precedent in the form of the government overruling property claims.
:>
:>What part of "PEOPLE are not property" do you not understand?
: I don't think slaves were ever considered people.
Dehumanizing people (whether Black, Jewish, unborn, or whatever) is
the first step toward using, abusing, and ultimately exterminating
them.
Joe
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:39:20 +0200
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:RUwQ5.4392$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > You realize, of course, that for a four processor Dell, currently
> > Linux beats NT on SPECWEB99 almost by a factor of three.
>
> With the web server running in the kernel. That's no victory.
I think they are talking about Tux, and I may be mistaken, but I do believe
that Tux is only capable of handling static pages. Not very useful today.
http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/stories/reviews/0,6755,2551188,00.html
However, shows who excels in dynamic pages.
And even on static pages, Linux & Apache are still behind Win2k & IIS
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:57:47 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:40:09 GMT...
...and Rasputin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >GNOME is pretty close (last time I checked, we had bindings for C,
> >C++, Objective C, Perl, Python, Ruby, Dylan, Haskell, Guile etc., and
> >that is GNOME bindings, not just GTK bindings).
> >
>
> <nods> that's the point I was making; didn't know there were so many,
> though.
For plain GTK+, even more. It's mayhem. But they seem to be
surprisingly well-maintained for the biggest part.
> >> Java has bindings to CORBA, as does almost everything else.
> >>
> >> Sure, you take a performance hit, but for GUIs that's a bit of a non-issue.
> >*Especially* for GUIs it's an issue. There's hand-optimised assembler
> >code in GNOME (in gdkpixbuf, to be exact), and it's there for a
> >reason.
>
> Yeah, since 1.2 GNOME has gotten quite usable.
>
> So are there plans to use imlib2 in there at all?
> I've not seen any definitive benchmarks, but it
> seems a fair bit faster (than gdkpixbuf) to me.
Gdkpixbuf was conceived before Imlib2, and its goals are a bit
different. There's a section somewhere in one of the GNOME FAQs that
details why GNOME 2.0 won't use Imlib2.
mawa
--
Garde-toi, tant que tu vivras,
De juger des gens sur la mine.
-- La Fontaine
------------------------------
From: Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:37:35 -0600
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Clifford W. Racz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8uhk0h$kk7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In using Windows, there is a downside... like this for example.
> >
> > Dealing With OS Decay: Rebuilding Your Windows System from Scratch
> > http://www.zdnet.com/zdhelp/stories/main/0,5594,2531288,00.html
> I don't know how long a linux box would be able to survive if clueless
> people (with root access) would start fiddling with it.
Linux does not have this problem. About the closest thing in linux is a
system where a lot of software was compiled and installed by hand. If you
use the package management tools your system will never "decay". The
problem with windows in this regard is that it is
1. designed as a single user system, with no partitioning of user and
system data, so everything is mixed together
2. has no standards for what files go where
3. has no software management tools
linux has none of these problems.
> "OS decay is actually a natural occurrence that results from heavy use of
> your system."
"OS decay" is a windows problem, not an "OS" problem.
> Bullshit, OS decay is the sign of an un-properly managed OS, period.
"OS decay" is the sign of a poorly designed OS.
Windows is a poorly designed and unmanageable OS, period.
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 02:54:16 +1000
"Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> >
> > "Clifford W. Racz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8uhk0h$kk7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In using Windows, there is a downside... like this for example.
> > >
> > > Dealing With OS Decay: Rebuilding Your Windows System from Scratch
> > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdhelp/stories/main/0,5594,2531288,00.html
>
> > I don't know how long a linux box would be able to survive if clueless
> > people (with root access) would start fiddling with it.
>
> Linux does not have this problem. About the closest thing in linux is a
> system where a lot of software was compiled and installed by hand. If you
> use the package management tools your system will never "decay". The
> problem with windows in this regard is that it is
>
> 1. designed as a single user system, with no partitioning of user and
> system data, so everything is mixed together
False.
> 2. has no standards for what files go where
False.
> 3. has no software management tools
False.
>
> linux has none of these problems.
Neither does Windows, if you're going to be that vague.
Or, alternatively, so does Linux, if you're going to be that vague.
> > "OS decay is actually a natural occurrence that results from heavy use
of
> > your system."
>
> "OS decay" is a windows problem, not an "OS" problem.
It's an OS problem. Dozens of files lying around, spurious crap in config
files, unused files lying around, incorrect libraries installed. Etc.
These are all problems suffered by most OSes any more complex than DOS.
> > Bullshit, OS decay is the sign of an un-properly managed OS, period.
>
> "OS decay" is the sign of a poorly designed OS.
Explain how to design a usable, complex OS that cannot potentially fall
victum to "decay".
> Windows is a poorly designed and unmanageable OS, period.
------------------------------
From: "PLZI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:58:47 GMT
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7YoQ5.20560$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > Easy. Save the file to disk (remember, kids, that's the default option)
> > and
> > then open it in Notepad, Script Editor, MSIDE, or any other text
> > viewer/editor program. Or is that too difficult for you?
>
> And now that you have saved the file on the disk and forgotten about
> it, what happens when you or someone else comes along later
> and double-clicks it? It is a loaded gun - giving it your blessing
> to live in the filesystem is very dangerous.
This of course is totally besides the point, but after seeing so much
pointless whining about how the outlook handles vbs an js files, I one day
decided that enough is enough. You can change the default action of the open
command, so no problem - just change the Open command so that it calls
notepad, and add extra option in the context menu called "Run".
After that, opening the file from outlook opens it to notepad.
Double-cliking - same thing. And you can still run the scripts from context
menu by selecting "Run". Good enough for you?
If anyone needs the necessary changes to the registry, I of course implented
the solution as...tada! as a vb script. :)
You can get it from http://www.plzi.com/misc/setdefault.vbs
Review it, run it, problem solved. We put this in the logon cmd of our
domain's users, if they have vbs engine installed, it will be run, and the
defaults will be changed. It silently exits if the necessary changes are
already made. Otherwise it tells what it did. It the users do not have vbs
engine, well, they don't need the changes. So no prob.
Yaddayadda, it's public domain, not especially brilliant, has no error
checking, do whatever you like with it.
- PLZI
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: 15 Nov 2000 17:35:17 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My my but we are getting nasty today.
> You're starting to sound like jedi :(
> Pretty soon you might start adding the word "hardly" to every
> sentence.
Well claire, almost everyone now understands that you are stupid,
lazy and ignorant. If you are at all capable of acting like anything
other than a complete imbecile, I suggest doing so immediately before
*everyone* knows the truth.
=====.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:26:09 -0500
Bruce Schuck wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >
> > Spot the recurring lie.
>
> OK.
>
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > Unix Systems Engineer
>
> There you go.
BzzzzzzzzT! Wrong
Try again.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: I WANT WIN2k drivers!
Date: 15 Nov 2000 17:39:56 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 02:33:39 -0500, Milton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>Don't use second-rate OS's and you won't be easily disappointed.
> All the more reason not to use Linux.
Unless of course you are intelligent, in which case you will not have
the problems that claire claims shes experienced with linux.
=====.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:27:39 -0500
Gary Hallock wrote:
>
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I didn't say it wasn't impossible, but it was a fundamental shift. I remember
> > reading a few of the ACL projects' to-do list and it was almost completely
> > dedicated to "fixing this application", "getting this application up to speed",
> > "fixing this service", etc.
> >
> > It's a fundamental design principle in Linux and most Unixes that they use
> > the permission bits scheme and there's a long road ahead to get everything
> > switched over.
> >
>
> I have never used any version of Unix without ACLs and I have been using Unix of
> one form or another for a decade. And why do apps have to change?
Because Chad can't think of a contrived scenario without it.
Actually, there is *ONE* reason...and one reason ONLY that ACL's were invented...
and it's an actual, real world situation.
I'll bet Chad is toooooo ignorant to know what that reason is.
>
> Gary
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:29:07 -0500
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I didn't say it wasn't impossible, but it was a fundamental shift. I
> remember
> > > reading a few of the ACL projects' to-do list and it was almost completely
> > > dedicated to "fixing this application", "getting this application up to
> speed",
> > > "fixing this service", etc.
> > >
> > > It's a fundamental design principle in Linux and most Unixes that they use
> > > the permission bits scheme and there's a long road ahead to get everything
> > > switched over.
> > >
> >
> > I have never used any version of Unix without ACLs and I have been using Unix
> of
> > one form or another for a decade. And why do apps have to change?
>
> Do you use Linux?
>
> If yes, then you've used a "version" of Unix which doesn't have ACLs.
>
> HP-UX? HP-UX doesn't have ACLs without special add-ons. Even if it
> does have ACLs (new improvement?) it isn't up to snuff because it
> isn't even considered for audit by the TSEC.
>
> Solaris? Nope.
>
> BSD? Nope.
>
> What versions have you used that DO have ACLs?
>
> Better yet, have you ever SEEN a unix (other than Tru64) that has
> a complete DAC implementation?
In 17 years of using Unix...and 6 years ADMINSTRATING Unix systems,
I have never EVER run across a situation which called for ACL's.
There is only ONE reason for ACL's...for a very specific situation
Do you know what it is?
>
> Doubt it.
>
> -Chad
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:30:42 -0500
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > The nice thing about Unix is that the defaults are relatively safe,
> > and offer NO opportunity for one person to remove another's files.
>
> Interestingly, it's a nice thing that windows (on NTFS) can do as well.
Unix had this from the Very Start.
Why did it take Microsoft over 15 years to come up with similar functionality?
PS: The code for Version 6 Unix has been public domain since the late 1970's,
so Microshaft has no excuse.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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