Linux-Advocacy Digest #254, Volume #30 Wed, 15 Nov 00 18:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? (mlw)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Tim Smith)
Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef (David Dorward)
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? (Michael Livshin)
Re: More Linux good news! (Mig)
Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights? (tom)
Re: so REALLY, what's the matter with Microsoft? (Gary Connors)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Curtis)
Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights? (Mig)
Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights?
Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:46:08 -0500
Bruce Schuck wrote:
>
> "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:NF5Q5.20477$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:VM2Q5.126334$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > > Create a shortcut with any command line flags you want in windows.
> > > > >
> > > > > Easy. Intuitive.
> > > >
> > > > Every script needs a shortcut? That's bad.
> > >
> > > Scripts don't NEED shortcuts.
> > >
> > > The shortcut feature is wonderful. It allows the logical grouping of
> > > executables and scripts and ducments.
> >
> > If the filesystem had general purpose links and symlinks as unix
> > has had for eons, you wouldn't need the limited-function concept
> > of shortcuts.
>
> Limited function? Shortcuts are great!
>
> >
> > > > > Set your own icon if you want to make it easier to remember.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want icons, I want to connect them with pipes so
> > > > each one can be used as a component of another.
> > >
> > > So what do you do? Type ls at the comand prompt to search for you the
> > script
> > > you want to run and then type in the name of the script with the command
> > > line switches every time?
> >
> > No, that's the point of making the script able to invoke it's interpreter
> > with the command line flags it needs.
>
> How do you find you thousands of scripts? Through ls right? Archaic.
>
> >
> > > Sounds down right archaic.
> >
> > Downright handy. And any time the typing becomes cumbersome you
> > just write a higher level script to invoke the frequently used
> > combinations with a single command.
>
> When typing gets cumbersome you type more.
> Yuck. Old fashioned. I can't see
> this catching on for normal desktop users.
What device did you use to produce the words above?
A) mouse
B) KEYBOARD
GAME
SET
MATCH
YOU'RE A FUCKING DUMBASS!!!!
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:50:42 -0500
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:_LdQ5.126629$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't it still impossible to completely turn off active-x in IE?
> > > >
> > > > Of course it's possible. And easy. And you can turn it on and off for
> > > > trusted/untrusted sites so you can leave it on for internal corporate
> > > sites
> > > > and turn it off for all others.
> > >
> > > Has this been fixed?
> > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0%2C4586%2C2322425%2C00.html
> > >
> > > and is the problem mentioned here about anyone being able
> > > to redistribute a buggy applet signed by Microsoft true?
> > >
> http://archives.indenial.com/hypermail/ntbugtraq/1999/March1999/0057.html
> >
> > Sure. But as I said, scripting can be turned off for unknown sites.
>
> Careful there - as usual you are putting too much trust in the wrong place.
> That last one is a buggy applet actually distributed and signed by
> Microsoft.
> Is Microsoft an 'unknown' site for you? You can fix this bug, but anyone
> else
> can send it back to you and if you trust Microsoft it will open the hole
> again.
This is why I have long advised that Windows systems should NEVER allow
modifications from Microsoft.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:55:10 -0500
Michael Livshin wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
>
> > I'm not saying you should use C++ without polymorphism. I'm pointing
> > out that you don't need to use much manual memory management in C++.
>
> any non-zero amount is enough for me, thankyouverymuch.
Without good memory management, you can't do a non-trivial program very
well. I don't care what anyone says, garbage collectors don't work in
complex systems. You either end up running too slowly because the memory
manager is taking up too much time, or your process bloats because the
memory manager isn't doing enough.
>
> > >the "dynamic languages" I know (Java (to some extent), Lisp,
> > >Scheme, Smalltalk, E, etc) simply don't have the FUCKING STUPID
> > >C/C++ "feature" of throwing object type information away once the
> > >compiler is finished with the program.
> >
> > I'm not sure what you mean here. C++ does have rtti, but it's often
> > not used. Explicitly identifying classes instead of using polymorphism
> > is a sloppy programming practice.
>
> when you utter broad claims like the above, don't forget to add "in
> C++". as in: "C++ doesn't support run-time type identification very
> well, so explicitly identifying classes is a sloppy programming
> practice in C++".
>
> actually, I'm not claiming that such a style is a good idea. I only
> claim that throwing information away for now good reason is FUCKING
> STUPID. it just may become handy -- debugging and error recovery come
> to mind. there are other reasons, but you won't consider them valid
> because apparently you think in C++.
>
> > BTW, the Qt object system add more run time type information. I don't think
> > that's a terribly good thing, but the point is that there are development
> > frameworks for C++ that do add more runtime information to types.
>
> good. any chance that it gets standartized?
Probably not.
>
> > >and what exactly is wrong with run-time errors that can be recovered
> > >from? C++ run-time errors cannot be recovered from because C++
> > >run-time environment is mind-bogglingly dumb.
> >
> > C++ has exceptions. You can certainly recover from run time errors
> > in C++.
>
> I don't mean exceptions. I mean real errors. ones that lead to
> segfaults in C/C++ apps, since the stupid app just has no brains to
> cope with "out-of-bound" situations.
One can catch problems and correct them.
>
> possibility of recovery (or at least very graceful reporting) from
> *any* error is quite important for big long-running applications. you
> can't recover from a segfault terribly well, I'm afraid.
Sure you can.
>
> > Since we were comparing it to C, it's certainly a lot easier to recover
> > from run time errors in C++ than it is in C.
>
> yes, from the ones you expect. (no, wrapping your main in a "try {}
> catch (...)" doesn't count).
Why not?
>
> oh, by the way: can you continue from a C++ exception? (answer: no).
Why not?
>
> > >also, C++ type system is simply too weak. you have to cast around it
> > >to get non-trivially interesting behavior,
> >
> > No you don't.
>
> well, I suppose you are right here, in a way. if you *think* in C++.
> 'cause I don't, and I find it painful when I try to.
What do you mean?
>
> > The point is that something that is widely used is more likely to
> > attract criticism than something that is only used by its passionate
> > advocates. The fact that C++ is criticised is more a reflection of
> > the fact that it is used outside a small core of passionate
> > advocates.
>
> I'm afraid you are wrong here. C++ is criticized because it sucks.
The question is why does it suck? and more to the point, how can someone
claim it sucks more than C?
>
> --
> (only legal replies to this address are accepted)
>
> This computer thanks you for your attention.
> G O O D B Y E
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Smith)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: 15 Nov 2000 13:48:35 -0800
Reply-To: Tim Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Rather funny, in all the time I've been using Outlook, I've never been
>burned by a virus.
Then either you've configured it to be more secure than the default, or
no one has mailed you one. The KAK virus only required that you view
the message (and even having the message show up in the preview pane was
enough) to get infected.
Haven't you ever wondered why Outlook gets hit by more viruses than
other Windows email programs? It is because, until recently at least,
by default, it would execute code in email WITHOUT asking for any
confirmation.
--Tim Smith
------------------------------
From: David Dorward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:04:25 +0000
Ioi Lam wrote:
> Now I've opened the shrink-wrapped box. It doesn't even come with a
> floppy boot disk. Talk about convenience.
IIRC its a bootable CD, and if your mobo doesn't support it you should find
instructions on making boot floppies on the disk or in the manual.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
From: Michael Livshin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 16 Nov 2000 00:04:29 +0200
mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I don't care what anyone says, garbage collectors don't work in
> complex systems. You either end up running too slowly because the memory
> manager is taking up too much time, or your process bloats because the
> memory manager isn't doing enough.
you are quite mad. well, I won't bother with refuting this utterly
ridiculous claim since you don't care what I say. convenient!
> > good. any chance that it gets standartized?
>
> Probably not.
I know. this is called a rhetorical question.
> > I don't mean exceptions. I mean real errors. ones that lead to
> > segfaults in C/C++ apps, since the stupid app just has no brains to
> > cope with "out-of-bound" situations.
>
> One can catch problems and correct them.
in a running application? without restarting it? and yes, this is a
real need sometimes.
> > possibility of recovery (or at least very graceful reporting) from
> > *any* error is quite important for big long-running applications. you
> > can't recover from a segfault terribly well, I'm afraid.
>
> Sure you can.
you run your big long-running programs interactively under gdb?
> > yes, from the ones you expect. (no, wrapping your main in a "try {}
> > catch (...)" doesn't count).
>
> Why not?
because all the handling you can supply is "see here, I got this
exception. if I'm lucky, it can be output to cout and maybe some
meaningful info will be printed. oh maybe not. bye now!".
> > oh, by the way: can you continue from a C++ exception? (answer: no).
>
> Why not?
do you always talk about things you know nothing about?
> > > >also, C++ type system is simply too weak. you have to cast around it
> > > >to get non-trivially interesting behavior,
> > >
> > > No you don't.
> >
> > well, I suppose you are right here, in a way. if you *think* in C++.
> > 'cause I don't, and I find it painful when I try to.
>
> What do you mean?
I mean that the ontological flexibility of C++ is so puny that I have
to adjust my ways of thinking to match the language, instead of the
other way around. and naturally I don't like that. YMMV.
> > C++ is criticized because it sucks.
>
> The question is why does it suck? and more to the point, how can someone
> claim it sucks more than C?
I didn't claim that it sucks more than C.
--
(only legal replies to this address are accepted)
It is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to
try to do it with ten blunt axes instead.
-- Edsger W. Dijkstra
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: More Linux good news!
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:17:09 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Pretty good article.
>
> claire
The answer is 42
Cheers
------------------------------
From: tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:10:41 GMT
I installed Mandrake 7.1 last night and managed to get on the internet
today (will wonders never cease).
However, while reading news with Netscape's (4.7x, I believe) Collabra,
things totally locked up on me. Somehow I managed to get out of kde
and down to the command prompt.
At that point while reading the man pages for "zip", things locked up
again. Never could get out of that gracefully till I stumbled up ctrl-
q (iirc) which rebooted the computer. From there, I just gave up and
went back into Win98.
Having read so much here about how Linux is so stable, I'm rather
surprised at what happened. However, in trying Communicator in the
past, it locked up on me and I had to reboot Windows, so I suspect the
Linux version may be just as crappy.
Is there a decent newsreader out there for Linux that also has the
ability to view images, or is at least comparable to Free Agent?
Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Gary Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: so REALLY, what's the matter with Microsoft?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:13:03 -0500
Chad Myers wrote:
> Past record? MS' support for Alpha (which had a reasonable sized
> market) was pretty good. Many recent products (including Office,
> Visual Studio 6, and many BackOffice products) are available on
> Alpha. All recent patches are available on alpha. Many of the
> new add-on features (scripting engines, Java VMs, etc) are
> still being released with Alpha support.
>
> What past record, other than the very good one, are you referring to?
>
> -Chad
How about PPC support? It EXISTED, at one time. Some people actually
ran it. MS killed it.
------------------------------
From: Curtis <alliem@kas*spam*net.com>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:22:54 -0500
The Ghost In The Machine wrote...
> >Did you just mention grep?!! This is getting from bad to worse. We're
> >speaking about how novices go about finding their way around a computer
> >and how this can be made as painless as possible, aren't we?
>
> This could devolve (evolve? :-) ) into a long and philosophical
> discussion as to whether it's more useful to have commands such
> as 'find', 'move', 'delete', 'erase', 'make_directory' (or
> 'make_folder' -- thank you, Microsoft), 'print', and 'list',
> or 'find', 'mv', 'rm', 'mkdir', 'lpr', and 'ls'. Note that, with
> the exception of 'find', the second list is essentially nonsense.
> But it's also easy to remember -- at least for me. Perhaps a
> linguistics expert can explain this? I'm not sure I can.
It's easy to remember because it consists of abbreviations. The ideal
system would support both command types.
> One issue for me at one point was the problem with transitioning
> from one OS to another -- in my case, it was VMS, Aegis, Daisy DNIX,
> Unix, AmigaDOS, and DOS. (Nowadays it's Linux, DOS/Win95, and NT4.)
> If all operating systems had the exact same commands, but different
> options (and different methods of specifying options!) there are some
> issues with respect to remembering exactly which options belong t
> which OSes. (It gets even worse if the OSes are just a tad different;
> 'ld' on Aegis was the file lister, whereas on Unix (and Linux) it is
> the program linker; 'cmp' = 'cmpf', 'rm' = 'dlf', 'cd&pwd' = 'wd',
> 'mv' = 'mvf' -- if memory serves.)
>
> At this point, the Unix operating systems have the same command names,
> but slightly different options. For some reason, this isn't quite
> as bad although it's a pain -- and it may be because I don't touch
> Solaris that often. ('man' helps. :-) )
>
> >
> >Look ... Linux/UNIX just doesn't cut it for the average user. Those are
> >OS's for those in the know and will always be that way. A novice user
> >will be intimidated, put through an unnecessarily involved learning
> >experience to achieve the same goals as they can using Windows.
>
> Such as?
What most average people do. Write documents, browse the web, manage e-
mail, do some graphics editing, working with their CD-R, manage their
expenses etc with quickbooks or the like, play games.
If you're into web development or have to manipulate multiple text files
across folders and drives, or do heavy file management, then Linux/Unix
is the way to go. If you wish to do the same in Windows in a painless
fashion, you'd need to get third party tools which are very much
available in freeware and shareware forms.
> I'm inclined to agree with you admittedly, but Windows isn't all
> that different when one gets under the hood -- and in fact Windows
> is worse for the average developer. IMO, anyway. It's a mess.
You said it .... " ...for the developer". I have no argument with that. I
have a serious problem with the cocky remarks that novices and average
users need to use a real OS to get their work done .. ala Linux/UNIX.
That's just simply silly and ignorant.
> With KDE (I don't have KDE2 yet) one might be able to have a go at
> moving icons around, or one can just fire up an xterm and type
> in commands manually (what's wrong with that? Shoving a soap on a rope
> isn't all that fast, especially for a touch typist) to accomplish
> what needs to be done.
Fine. The GUI is not totally useless to an advanced user. Tools that make
life easier for the average user will do the same for the advanced user.
It would be silly for the advanced user to not use what works better.
When Linux has reached a level of development where it may be used
without imposing unnecessary complexity to the average user then I'll
advocate it for the average user. The only reason why I don't use it
myself, is because of application support. I personally am willing to
learn and expand my horizons at leisure .... that's called 'geek' by
average users. :-) For the moment Win2k makes a great OS for me and has
me no longer leaning towards Linux.
> Try to explain to a novice user why an icon that looks like a document
> gets a '[+]' sign sometimes when moving between folders, but why
> an icon that looks like a little window with something in it -- or
> with nothing in it -- gets an arrow, instead -- or what's supposed to
> happen if one double-clicks. Is this reaasonable and intuitive behavior?
Drag and drop in windows is not intuitive at all. It has its rule set but
it's unnecessarily complicated and most of all, it cannot be customised.
What I tell most novices to do is to RMB drag and drop. That will give
them a menu asking them what they wish to do. They can then experiment
with the LMB drag and drop to see what happens with certain files.
You can never prevent them from having to learn something. The idea is to
minimize the learning. They'll flock to the solution that imposes the
least learning.
> I doubt it -- although it's not too hard to fathom, especially when one
> can use SHIFT and CTRL to modify the behavior. But this is not the mark
> of a stellar GUI, IMO.
Agreed. :-) Windows is not perfect. Most peoples positive opinion
(including mine) with respect to its usability for average tasks is a
general one. One can easily nitpick at little aspects of it, something
that 'penguinistas?' tend to do, blowing them all out of proportion as
they go along.
--
___ACM________________________________________________________
"A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it."
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:22:25 +0100
Yes yes very believable
This sounds like a hardware defect.. probably your cpu cooler or some ram.
And off course your Windoze will crash too so how could you boot it?
Try again and with more effort please.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:25:25 -0000
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:58:47 GMT, PLZI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:7YoQ5.20560$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> "Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
>> > Easy. Save the file to disk (remember, kids, that's the default option)
>> > and
>> > then open it in Notepad, Script Editor, MSIDE, or any other text
>> > viewer/editor program. Or is that too difficult for you?
>>
>> And now that you have saved the file on the disk and forgotten about
>> it, what happens when you or someone else comes along later
>> and double-clicks it? It is a loaded gun - giving it your blessing
>> to live in the filesystem is very dangerous.
>
>This of course is totally besides the point, but after seeing so much
No it isn't.
[deletia]
Megalosoft is supposed to be about "ease of use" these days.
Ultimately, the easiest thing is to do nothing.
[deletia]
There's no real substitute for SANE defaults.
--
Any fool can paint a picture, but it takes a wise person to be able to sell it.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:31:04 -0000
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:10:41 GMT, tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I installed Mandrake 7.1 last night and managed to get on the internet
>today (will wonders never cease).
>
>However, while reading news with Netscape's (4.7x, I believe) Collabra,
>things totally locked up on me. Somehow I managed to get out of kde
>and down to the command prompt.
That's interesting, as I've run Redhat betas and am currently
running a Mandrake beta now and I've never had Netscape do that
to me. Not only have I used the versions that came with the
distro,but I've built my own versions of mozilla and downloaded
other binary versions from netscape.com. I've run Redhat 4.1 to
Mandrake 7.2 with Netscape 3.x to mozilla to 6.x without ever
so much as a burp from the X server itself.
>
>At that point while reading the man pages for "zip", things locked up
>again. Never could get out of that gracefully till I stumbled up ctrl-
>q (iirc) which rebooted the computer. From there, I just gave up and
>went back into Win98.
>
>Having read so much here about how Linux is so stable, I'm rather
>surprised at what happened. However, in trying Communicator in the
...as I am I. I ABUSE operating systems and I can get NT5 to
crumble (nevermind Win9x) without much effort while Linux is
a significantly harder nut to crack.
[deletia]
--
They also serve who only stand and wait.
-- John Milton
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:35:14 -0000
On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 02:54:16 +1000, Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "Clifford W. Racz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:8uhk0h$kk7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > In using Windows, there is a downside... like this for example.
>> > >
>> > > Dealing With OS Decay: Rebuilding Your Windows System from Scratch
>> > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdhelp/stories/main/0,5594,2531288,00.html
>>
>> > I don't know how long a linux box would be able to survive if clueless
>> > people (with root access) would start fiddling with it.
>>
>> Linux does not have this problem. About the closest thing in linux is a
>> system where a lot of software was compiled and installed by hand. If you
>> use the package management tools your system will never "decay". The
>> problem with windows in this regard is that it is
>>
>> 1. designed as a single user system, with no partitioning of user and
>> system data, so everything is mixed together
>
>False.
Win's notion of a home directory does infact reside in the single
core OS directory.
>
>> 2. has no standards for what files go where
>
>False.
Shove it all into $SYSTEM, does not constitute a fs standard.
[deletia]
Claiming that WinDOS has a filesystem standard is much like
claiming that DOS 1.0 supported filesystems.
--
She's learned to say things with her eyes that others waste time putting
into words.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:37:18 -0000
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:49:47 -0500, James Hutchins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <James Hutchins> wrote:
>> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >
>> >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I hope that the two projects merge in the future in a language less
>> >> > sucky than either C or C++.
>> >>
>> >> Agreed. They should write it in Java.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >Java? Please, NO! I have a NEED for SPEED!! I don't think even hotspot can
>> >make up for the performance hit I'd take with java. When doing complex
>> >analyses on up to 10 gigs of byte-sized time series data, even a 15% speed
>> >hit is significant. So why accept it when you can just use C++?
>>
>> For that matter, why are you using GUI toolkits to do
>> complex analyses at all?
>
>
>
>Good point. Because I then have to graphically display the results in
>various charts, plots, etc. So I looked into graphics, which led to
>windowing environments, thus to X, Qt, GTK+, and other confusions...
Displaying graphics doesn't require a GUI.
[deletia]
--
The three best things about going to school are June, July, and August.
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