Linux-Advocacy Digest #255, Volume #30 Wed, 15 Nov 00 19:13:02 EST
Contents:
RE: More Linux good news! (sfcybear)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: More Linux good news! (Craig Kelley)
Re: OS stability (JoeX1029)
Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights? (tom)
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights? (Craig Kelley)
Re: Mandrake, thoughts? Opinions? ("Frank Van Damme")
Re: so REALLY, what's the matter with Microsoft? (.)
Re: Linux get new term? (Pat McCann)
Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights? (tom)
Re: The Sixth Sense (Goldhammer)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (.)
Re: Linux get new term? (Barry Margolin)
Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights? (Gavin McCord)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (The Ghost In The
Machine)
Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights? (tom)
Re: OS stability (sfcybear)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: More Linux good news!
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:33:14 GMT
In article <9SCQ5.204$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > New stability figures shows that Linux is as stable as the big dog
Unix
> > systems Now:
> > http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2651586,00.html
>
> It is not a matter of software or kernel issue, a well configured
kernel
> was
> as reliable as Solaris one (to say one) for a long time. It is a
matter of
> hardware,
> GNU/Linux uses to be run on PC hardware, while Solaris or HP/UX run on
> excellent hardware (even OS-targeted); anyway, a GNU/Linux on a Sun
> hardware not only will be as reliable as Solaris, but it will be
notable
> faster.
Things like exchanging memory or hard disks on the fly may not be
availble
> nowadays but ... I prefer GNU/Linux than Solaris anyway.
>
>
Actualy, the uptime refferences from netcraft don't show what hardware
is being used. Still, being able to choose what hardware we want to use
is yet another big advantage for Linux.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:39:50 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Not to mention the OS's that don't report uptimes at all,
> such as OS/2, OS/390, SunOS4, NetWare...
On the contrary, OS/2 can report an uptime.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:40:55 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Wed, 15 Nov 2000 01:11:49 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
[snip forbrevity]
>Wrong. Losedows provides NO facility for copying the bootsector.
As I understand it, the SYS command writes a new bootblock.
While not quite a copy -- but then, who'd want to use
another operating system anyway? :-) :-) -- it will
probably do the job. (Gee, thanks, Microsoft, for making
it impossible to copy a bootblock.)
[rest snipped]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
Subject: Re: More Linux good news!
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 15 Nov 2000 15:52:15 -0700
sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> New stability figures shows that Linux is as stable as the big dog Unix
> systems Now:
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2651586,00.html
E-Week (aka, PCWeek) is mostly a fluff magazine, in my experience.
Their reccomendations and results oscillate wildly from week to week;
and they like to generate controversy more than anything. Don't be
surprised if next week they have a DANGER story on Linux and talk
about how great the new SOAP technologies are for B2B.
Maybe that's why they give the magazine away for "free" (if you
consider filling out a bazillion questionaires free). Katt's articles
and the heavily-edited Opintion letters are the best parts.
(besides, those of us using Linux already know how good it is; my boss
was commenting just today that our Oracle database hadn't needed to be
rebooted since we moved it over from NT to Linux)
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JoeX1029)
Date: 15 Nov 2000 22:56:50 GMT
Subject: Re: OS stability
>at www.uptime.net the longest uptime is somewhere around 1500 days
>
>
ya know i posted this like a week ago, what shitty news servers. The last
time i looked though the highest uptime was like 1488 days for a BSD ftp
server.
Sidenote: uptime.net is nolonger there, its uptime.netcraft.com
------------------------------
From: tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:52:31 GMT
In article <8uv2gb$sv8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes yes very believable
>
> This sounds like a hardware defect.. probably your cpu cooler or some
ram.
> And off course your Windoze will crash too so how could you boot it?
>
> Try again and with more effort please.
Huh?
I don't want to sound like a Win-troll, but I haven't add any
comparable lockups in Windows lately. (but of course, I haven't let
Communicator anywhere near my system in quite a while, either)
Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 15 Nov 2000 16:03:11 -0700
mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Michael Livshin wrote:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
> >
> > > I'm not saying you should use C++ without polymorphism. I'm pointing
> > > out that you don't need to use much manual memory management in C++.
> >
> > any non-zero amount is enough for me, thankyouverymuch.
>
> Without good memory management, you can't do a non-trivial program very
> well. I don't care what anyone says, garbage collectors don't work in
> complex systems. You either end up running too slowly because the memory
> manager is taking up too much time, or your process bloats because the
> memory manager isn't doing enough.
Care to explain that to my Java servlets then?
Not that Java is a perfect language (it isn't), but it sure beats C
and C++ in the usability department.
[snip]
> > possibility of recovery (or at least very graceful reporting) from
> > *any* error is quite important for big long-running applications. you
> > can't recover from a segfault terribly well, I'm afraid.
>
> Sure you can.
Considering that the defn of a segfault is that your program is in an
inconsistent state....
Besides, how exactly to you "catch" a segfault without being in a
debugger?
[snip]
> The question is why does it suck? and more to the point, how can someone
> claim it sucks more than C?
It probably doesn't suck more than C, but it definately sucks more
than most intellegent languages; for everything apart from devices
drivers and anywhere else you need a macro assembler.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights?
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 15 Nov 2000 16:05:51 -0700
tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Having read so much here about how Linux is so stable, I'm rather
> surprised at what happened. However, in trying Communicator in the
> past, it locked up on me and I had to reboot Windows, so I suspect the
> Linux version may be just as crappy.
Too true; but it hasn't ever taken me out of X11 that I can remember.
You may want to look into using KDE's Konqorer until Mozilla comes
out.
> Is there a decent newsreader out there for Linux that also has the
> ability to view images, or is at least comparable to Free Agent?
http://www.superpimp.org
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Frank Van Damme" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mandrake, thoughts? Opinions?
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:11:04 +0100
In bericht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Peroreerde
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> Running Linux is a riot for me. It's really one of the funniest things
> on the planet. Much cheaper then going to a comedy club and listening to
> stale jokes all night.
>
> Linux is one of the biggest farces ever fostered on the public. It is
> quite funny.
>
> Combine it with reading this group and my sides are aching from laughing
> so much.
OK, do so. Laugh with people who try Linux, consider it good enough to
keep it and use it intensively. Personally, I laugh at dumb-asses who
still use an ever-crashing windowsbox and claim they're using something
userfriendly. I also like jokes, cartoons and wallpapers about Gates and
MS.
You're really starting to annoy me with your idiot comments. Go laugh at
people at comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy.
Are you sure you have seen a computer before?
> Sure as hell beats the comedy channel.
>
> claire
>
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:11:32 -0500, Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: so REALLY, what's the matter with Microsoft?
Date: 15 Nov 2000 23:17:42 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Gary Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chad Myers wrote:
>> Past record? MS' support for Alpha (which had a reasonable sized
>> market) was pretty good. Many recent products (including Office,
>> Visual Studio 6, and many BackOffice products) are available on
>> Alpha. All recent patches are available on alpha. Many of the
>> new add-on features (scripting engines, Java VMs, etc) are
>> still being released with Alpha support.
>>
>> What past record, other than the very good one, are you referring to?
>>
>> -Chad
> How about PPC support? It EXISTED, at one time. Some people actually
> ran it. MS killed it.
Indeed. Of course, the windows people will tell you that there are
PPC folders on the W2K cd...
But try installing it on an AS/400.
I think that part of the problem with these people is that theyve only
experienced computing with intel, and have no idea that computers can
actually stay up for YEARS and be very, very useful.
=====.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.politics.election,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Linux get new term?
From: Pat McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 15 Nov 2000 15:18:10 -0800
Doc Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Pat McCann wrote:
> >
> > Doc Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > If the government spends my money to develope software, then
> > > as a tax payer I should have the right to use that software.
> > >
> > > So there are three merits for open source only in the government:
> > >
> > > 1. Better accountability.
> > >
> > > 2. It is a resource owned by the people.
> > >
> > > 3. Reduced costs.
> >
> > Without a doubt, except that you are arguing that government-sponsored
> > software should not be copyrighted -- that it should be required to be
>
> No I said what I mean. Don't put other words into my mouth.
>
> <text attempting to put words in my mouth deleted>
If I wanted to put words in your mouth I would say: "I accept your
apology for being such a silly jerk in that post." Shame on you
for resorting to such lame debating tricks. I put no words in your
mouth. I just said (in my words) that your words (above) make more
sense if you replace "open source" with "public domain". You should
have figured that out for yourself if I was not absolutely clear.
I'll put it a third way for you. Your words unartfully imply a
statement "the government should fund developement of open source only"
and a four-element argument to support the statement (if you want to
think that too is "putting words in your mouth", then get used to it).
I said your argument doesn't support your statement unless you change
"open source" to "public domain".
Specifically, two of your arguments apply more to PD and not OS:
1) Your argument "as a tax payer I should have the right to use" has
no mention of "certain restricted rights" and so applies to PD and not
to OS in general. (I've never seen anyone argue that "as a tax payer I
should have only the rights that copyleft or any other license gives me.)
2) It's not right to say that software which I can't use freely (OS
software which is not PD) is owned by "the people". By the government,
maybe, but I don't think of them as the same. If they are, then your
argument #2 is just generally wrong because most government software (OS
or not) is owned by the person, organization, or company that does the
work and not the government.
I'll bring this thread to a close (per RFC 723564828) by invoking
the name of Fascism. When people argue for the use of restricted
software by claiming the benefits it shares with PD software I get
the same kind of feeling I get when I read that Fascism (for you from
Palm Beach that corresponds to copyleft) made the trains run on
time (as does Modern Germany (that's pulic domain)). People who
are going to argue for Fascism should argue for its other
characteristics too.
------------------------------
From: tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:05:31 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>
> That's interesting, as I've run Redhat betas and am currently
> running a Mandrake beta now and I've never had Netscape do that
> to me. Not only have I used the versions that came with the
> distro,but I've built my own versions of mozilla and downloaded
> other binary versions from netscape.com. I've run Redhat 4.1 to
> Mandrake 7.2 with Netscape 3.x to mozilla to 6.x without ever
> so much as a burp from the X server itself.
No, not Netscape Navigator the browser. It takes forever to start (&
doesn't go full screen, which is why I like IE5), but I don't think the
browser has ever given me problems. Only the newsreader, which has
some glitch that seems to go back a few versions.
> >Having read so much here about how Linux is so stable, I'm rather
> >surprised at what happened. However, in trying Communicator in the
>
> ...as I am I. I ABUSE operating systems and I can get NT5 to
> crumble (nevermind Win9x) without much effort while Linux is
> a significantly harder nut to crack.
Doesn't happen to me (much ;) with Win98, but then I just pretty much
use it on the net for a few hours a day, and occasionally as a DAW
(digital audio workstation).
Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Goldhammer)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:28:26 GMT
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:46:08 -0500, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bruce Schuck wrote:
>> When typing gets cumbersome you type more.
>> Yuck. Old fashioned. I can't see
>> this catching on for normal desktop users.
>
>What device did you use to produce the words above?
>
>A) mouse
>B) KEYBOARD
Hehehe.
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:40:17 +1300
In article <WgEQ5.28200$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Not to mention the OS's that don't report uptimes at all,
> > such as OS/2, OS/390, SunOS4, NetWare...
>
> On the contrary, OS/2 can report an uptime.
Hey, so can netware... teehee.
I was pasting an earlier comment from Erik... I guess I should have >'d
it. Have a quick look back through the thread if you're still confused.
------------------------------
From: Barry Margolin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.politics.election,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Linux get new term?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:43:43 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Doc Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>If the government spends my money to develope software, then
>as a tax payer I should have the right to use that software.
There are lots of things that the government owns, but tax payers don't
have any right to them. For instance, the government owns thousands of
cars (not to mention the tanks and fighter jets used by the military), but
you can't just borrow them because your taxes were used to purchase them.
If the government commissions software for the benefit of the people, it
would make sense for it to be open source. If they commission it for their
internal operations, this doesn't make as much sense. In fact, the
government doesn't "develop" as much software as they used to; they usually
try to purchase off-the-shelf software that meets their needs, and limiting
themselves to open source software could make it much more difficult for
them to get what they need at a reasonable price (in fact, it might require
them to commission custom software development, which would be much more
expensive than COTS).
--
Barry Margolin, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Genuity, Burlington, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.
------------------------------
From: Gavin McCord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:47:33 +0000
tom wrote:
>
> I installed Mandrake 7.1 last night and managed to get on the internet
> today (will wonders never cease).
>
> However, while reading news with Netscape's (4.7x, I believe) Collabra,
> things totally locked up on me. Somehow I managed to get out of kde
> and down to the command prompt.
>
> At that point while reading the man pages for "zip", things locked up
> again. Never could get out of that gracefully till I stumbled up ctrl-
> q (iirc) which rebooted the computer. From there, I just gave up and
> went back into Win98.
>
> Having read so much here about how Linux is so stable, I'm rather
> surprised at what happened. However, in trying Communicator in the
> past, it locked up on me and I had to reboot Windows, so I suspect the
> Linux version may be just as crappy.
>
> Is there a decent newsreader out there for Linux that also has the
> ability to view images, or is at least comparable to Free Agent?
>
> Tom
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Netscape sucks; frequently my system totally locks up and
I have to SWITCH THE POWER OFF. (Though it may be a conflict
with my TV card.)
However, Netscape is not totally useless; I was pleasantly
surprised to find it outputs PostScript when printing, saving
me some hassle with my inputfilter.
--
I'm Keyser Soze...No, I'm Keyser Soze. I'm Keyser Soze and so's my wife!
(Monty Python play The Usual Suspects.)
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:47:06 +0200
"Tim Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Rather funny, in all the time I've been using Outlook, I've never been
> >burned by a virus.
>
> Then either you've configured it to be more secure than the default, or
> no one has mailed you one. The KAK virus only required that you view
> the message (and even having the message show up in the preview pane was
> enough) to get infected.
>
> Haven't you ever wondered why Outlook gets hit by more viruses than
> other Windows email programs? It is because, until recently at least,
> by default, it would execute code in email WITHOUT asking for any
> confirmation.
Because it is, by far, the most popular one?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:49:00 GMT
References trimmed.
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ketil Z Malde
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:23:13 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> ROFL... do you even know what "enterprise" means?
>
>Apparently not.
>
>> I'm talking big tasks (of which Linux falls flat on its face) like
>> running a multi-hundred-gigabyte database, running a SAP application
>> server, PeopleSoft, BAAN, or any number of enterprise ERP, SRP, MRP-
>> type applications.
>
>I'm sure you'll list the "enterprises" where NT does this job?
There was at one point terraserver -- www.terraserver.com.
The front page is still running IIS 4.
It's not all that hot.
>
>> It can't. Why not? Because there are so many built in design flaws
>> in the Linux kernel alone (not to mention 3rd party add-ons) that it
>> would choke.
>
>Really?
I'm curious too. Any design flaws in the Linux kernel will most
likely be fixed by willing fingers. :-)
>
>> Examples? Lack of multithreading in the networking stack that serializes
>> all TCP/IP traffic on one NIC
>
>And NT or Win2000 or any other OS for that matter can send multiple
>packets at the same time? Impressive!
The oft-maligned 4 100Mb card benchmark by Netcraft -- or was
it Mindcraft? -- showed exactly this. Mind you, I suspect this has
been fixed by now.
>
>> and practically halts the OS during heavy traffic loads.
>
>That's nonsense. I don't have any Gbit ethernet cards to try it on,
>but I can comfortably saturate a 100Mbit segment without my old
>Pentium Pro breaking out a sweat.
>
>You realize, of course, that for a four processor Dell, currently
>Linux beats NT on SPECWEB99 almost by a factor of three. Linux only
>scales linearly to four processors, with eight you only see about 50%
>further improvement. NT, on the other hand, doesn't have numbers on
>eight CPU's, I wonder why?
>
>Last time I heard, Linux also outperformed NT on SAP benchmarks.
>
>DB2 Magazine thinks Linux is ready to run - and in fact, a recommended
>platform for - IBM's DB2 UDB.
>
>Linux may not replace mainframes yet, but scalability and performance
>are ceasing to be the reason.
*Replace* mainframes? Linux runs *on* mainframes -- specifically,
the S/390. :-) (Try *that* with No Technology. :-) No fair
porting bochs or vmware first....)
>
>> Lack of large file support in the filesystem
>
>It's not a file system issue, upgrade to a modern kernel, and start
>creating large files.
Or switch to a more capable processor.
>
>-kzm
>--
>If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux INstability & Netscape : Insights?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:40:17 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Too true; but it hasn't ever taken me out of X11 that I can remember.
>
> You may want to look into using KDE's Konqorer until Mozilla comes
> out.
The "crash" itself didn't take me out. I somehow forced my way out.
> > Is there a decent newsreader out there for Linux that also has the
> > ability to view images, or is at least comparable to Free Agent?
>
> http://www.superpimp.org
Pan looks promising. Dumb question: which file(s) do I need to
download? I know Mandrake can use rpm's, but there are about five
different one's listed, perhaps for different systems? (I have a P266.)
Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS stability
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:52:10 GMT
no, I potray you as a jerk. Linux supporter or not.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
