Linux-Advocacy Digest #419, Volume #30 Sat, 25 Nov 00 19:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: KDE2 (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Re: Linux=Stink*Stank*Stunk ("Bennetts family")
Re: Bug-time.... where is NT? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (mark)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (mark)
Re: Linux for nitwits (mark)
Re: Microsoft Encouraging OEMs to "protect" customers from pirate software (mark)
Re: Bug-time.... where is NT? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: KDE2 (Transport)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:07:31 GMT
On Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:42:26 -0800, matt newell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: You are what I consider an idiot.
You're certainly entitled to that opinion, however wrong it may be.
: KDE2 has a very powerfull ability to use themes. Themes can make your system
: look however you want. It even supports gtk themes so it can look just like
: gnome if that is what you would like. You critisize KDE without even
: exploring the options. What a shame.
I'm well aware of the availability of themes. It's a shame that I have
to hunt all over the net to find KDE2 themes that don't look like bad
anime. It's also considered poor form to call someone an "idiot" when
your own posting is full of spelling mistakes ("powerfull" and "critisize").
I won't do you the same disservice. I may think your opinions are idiotic,
but you're probably a reasonably intelligent person.
Actually, the notebook on the other side of the room has the Debian Woody
release installed on it. Yes, I have gone so far as to
"apt-get install task-kde", as well as "apt-get install task-helix-gnome".
KDE2 works, and while more pleasant to look at than KDE1, is still slow.
The notebook in question is by no means a speed demon (P-133/48MB RAM), but
while KDE2 crawls, Helix GNOME is bearable to use.
It's a shame that KDE is written in C++.. C++ still doesn't have any
reasonably standardized support on the Linux side of things. Witness
the whole gcc 2.9x/3.0 debacle over ABIs and lack of binary compatability
between releases. Shall we just statically link EVERYTHING? GNOME is
written in C. If you're a C++ fanatic, use gtkmm and gnomemm, the C++
bindings. KDE forces you to write in C++, C is not an option.
BTW - KDE2 doesn't have anything as advanced as gnome-print, gnome-vfs,
bonobo, oaf, medusa or GConf. The root of the problem is all of the time
that the KDE people wasted with QT. QT, while a technically sound library,
was the stumbling block that caused GNOME and Gtk+ to be created. The
project was for quite some time, a GPL violation - only fairly recently
have they gotten their house in order.
--
Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
------------------------------
From: "Bennetts family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux=Stink*Stank*Stunk
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:13:23 +1100
"Topaz Crow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Don't blame linux for your inadequacies. If you can't fly a plane does
that
> mean all planes are crap?
Of course it does! ;-)
--Chris
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Bug-time.... where is NT?
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 18:19:17 -0500
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> >"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >>
> >> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Really, it is pretty tricky to get software to not leak,
> >> > and Microsoft has as much trouble as anyone else.
> >> ^^^^^^^
> >>
> >> you misspelled "more"
> >>
> >> Can you say "spaghetti code" ????
> >
> >You really must make your signature more concise, it's
> >longer than St. Paul's letter to the Corinthians (who
> >probably thought that St. Paul was the new gold vendor
> >down the street).
> >
> >Anyway, I've never had a good feeling about Microsoft
> >code in general. It's often ugly, and the APIs
> >take wayyyyyyyyyyyy too many parameters, including
> >parameters that are pointers to structures or are
> >"handles". Definite spaghetti no matter how careful
> >the MS programmer is.
> >
> >It arises from the Microsoft development philosophy,
> >as explicated by the former Visual C++ team leader,
> >Jim McCarthy. <paraphrase> When you commit to
> >develop using Microsoft tools, you commit to a way
> >of life. The one thing we will do is change, and
> >change rapidly. This forces everyone to work hard
> >to keep up, and gives us an advantage. </paraphrase>
> >
> >Of course, this attitude is merely a formalized
> >version of how things work in the real world.
> >The price we pay is buggy code.... spaghetti code.
> >
> >Hell, I've written spaghetti code many a time, because
> >I knew I would not be given the time to "do it right".
> >I've found that growing an API works quite well for
> >awhile. Ultimately, it grows beyond my easy grasp,
> >and new projects take longer. At some point it is
> >time to throw it out and regrow from a stronger position.
> >
> >Microsoft does this very well. Again, though, the
> >transition is always marked by an efflorescence of
> >bugs.
> >
> >Chris
>
> Precisely!
>
> Microsoft throws just about everything they did
> away and writes it from scratch. And each time
> it takes them longer to produce the next generation
> OS. And in this process they introduce more bugs
> and security problems than was produced in the last
> release.
>
> Microsoft is not like Linux in the respect that
> Linux can build on past sucesses.
>
> Microsoft has no past sucesses to build upon.
> All they seem to know how to do is to re-invent
> the wheel constantly.
New, Microsoft Wheel 2000, Now with TWELVE sides!
>
> They are more marketing hype than substance.
>
> Charlie
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:07:55 +0000
In article <8vpeh6$52a0r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <8vp1hb$53rhs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>> >
>> >"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> Tom Wilson wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > BTW, Outlook Express has crashed twice this evening and I'm trying as
>> >hard
>> >> > as I can to keep off-color vernacular out of my MS related posts. <g>
>> >>
>> >> As a professional MCSE (morbidly cynical software engineer),
>> >> I recommend you slick the disk and reinstall everything from
>> >> scratch. Bring along a good book.
>> >
>> >That is just the attidue that I hate when people talk about windows
>> >instability.
>> >I just came back from a very frustrated linux user who called me and
>started
>> >cursing windows.
>> >Why? His linux would refuse to run (he pull the plug on his system after
>the
>> >system refused to respond to halt & reboot commands, and his file systems
>> >are now accesible in read mode only, and only by root), he didn't have
>any
>> >linux installation disks, but he did have a spare HD and a win98 cd.
>> >It would be easier, he figured out, to just install windows, find out on
>the
>> >web what the problem was, and fix it.
>>
>>
>> This is a ludicrous scenario. A root disk will enable reading of
>> linux partitions (eg., tomsrtbt, or the debian install disk). Win98
>> *cannot* read linux filesystems, although Linux can read win98 ones.
>
>He doesn't have a floppy drive.
>And there are tools for win98 that can read ext2 fs.
Not that come on a Win98 install disk, there aren't.
>
>> No vaguely technically knowledgable Linux user, especially not a
>> slackware user (as you later claim) would make such a fundamental
>> mistake as you've done here.
>
>No, when we finally gotten windows to dial up, I d/l an ext2 reader, and
>copied all the files to the fat32 partition, and burned them.
Ah, what a magical recovery. I should have guessed that you'd go
to all the effort of installing an OS from a broken CD from Microsoft
in order to subsequently download a package to enable you to read
a non-native filesystem (ext2), which you could have done from
any linux rescue disk. If you've no floppy, then you can
netboot, or you can (which I do) create an additional spare partition
to boot from , or, and this is the key question - how did he get
Slackware on in the first place?
If this were debian then it might have been a bootable cdrom.
In which case, any sane person would boot the cdrom and fix
things, not install another OS. You still don't say what was
wrong with this linux installation which apparently wouldn't
boot or run or something.
>
>> >Win setup complained about a file missing, but kept installing.
>>
>> Well, seems a bit clunky - why didn't it stop?
>
>Because it wasn't a very important file and windows could function without
>it.
>And because it was told to "skip" this file.
Ah, so why are you worried about it if it's not important, and
why did this person say 'skip' if he needed it - which one
is this, please?
>
>> >On loading, windows complain about a vnetbios.vxd missing, and he
>couldn't
>> >get windows to dial up.
>>
>> Dial up what? Whatis vnetbios.vxd - can't you get it from somewhere
>> else - didn't the install tell you what it meant? Didn't the
>> readmes tell you what to do?
>
>Dial Up Networking.
>I can probably get vnetbios.vxd from plenty of places, but why bother?
>I simply extracted it the cab file it resided on, and put it where it should
>be.
I thought this Cd was broken - that's what you said last time. If
the install couldn't find this file, why was it magically in the
correct place on the CD? It can't have been!
>
>Why would I read the readmes? I *know* what I'm doing.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmarrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - rofl
>
>
>> >He called me, asked for advice, I told him to search for the file in the
>> >registery, search in the cab dir on win98 for the file, and extract to
>the
>> >path.
>>
>> Ah, search the registry and then extract something from cab on win98.
>> Win98 on what, exactly?
>
>You search the registery for all the apperances of the file, and you check
>where it should be, you write this down.
>Then you go to the Windows98 Installation Cd, and find the directory where
>all the cab files reside.
>You do a search on file content, looking for vnetbios.vxd , I find the
>vnetbios.vxd inside the cab file, and extract it.
>Then, knowing that in the registery, it appeared without path, I put it in
>windows\system\
>Removing & Adding TCP/IP & rebooting solved the problem
All this to read a filesystem which Win98 can't read, from a CD which
Microsoft seem to have shipped broken?
>
>> >Apperantly, it was too difficult for him, so he just format and
>reinstalled.
>> >Same problem. (bad cd)
>>
>> Well, windows doesn't really provide many choices, does it. One of
>> the great things about debian is you can pull _all_ of the install
>> pieces off the web - no possibility of trying to install with
>> damaged pieces. Microsoft really should be able to provide a working
>> functioning CD which it's possible to install from without errors.
>
>You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?
>We are talking about *read* error.
>The place where the file resided was damage, neither linux nor god can save
>you then.
A *read* error - ah, so you can't read the file, but earlier you said
you found it on the same CD in the right place and you *could* read
it - which is it, please?
>
>> >He called me, asking me to come over, and in the mean time, did it
>*again*.
>>
>> Well, what were you going to do, err, perhaps, err, reinstall windows?
>
>No, I didn't.
>That was the *whole* point.
>That I didn't have to.
>He was an idiot because he did so.
No, you seem to have managed to read a file that couldn't be read
because of a *read* error, as you said. This is real windows magic.
>
>> >I came to him and had to wait half an hour to the installation to be done
>> >with, and then it took me five minutes to fix the problem.
>>
>> It takes half and hour to stop a windows install?
>
>No, it take half an hour to finish the installation. The idiot formated his
>HD.
Er, no, I think he was following the windows install?
>
>> h, and one reboot, because you'd to de-install & install TCP/IP
>>
>> Well, it's windows, *of*course* you have to reboot.
>
>No, it's win9x, there is a difference.
Are you really saying there's a version of windows on the market
which can be installed from a CD and does not need to be rebooted?
This seems less than likely, but then so do the rest of the claims
here (remember, audience - this is all to fix a slackware problem)
>
>> >All in all, he wasted a day (multiply installation plus the applications
>he
>> >installed on windows that would now have to be reinstalled) that
>could've
>> >been solved in less than 5 minutes.
>>
>> I still don't understand what he did wrong? Trusted Microsoft's CD?
>
>No, reinstalling when he didn't need to.
No - he didn't need to install at all - you said he had a problem
with slackware, that he's a regular user of slackware 7.1 and
is knowledgable, yet in spite of all this, he installs win98
from a Cd in order to fix an ext2 system. You are really not
making much sense here at all.
>
>> >And that is a regular user of slackware 7.1
>>
>> Frankly, I just don't believe this.
>
>Neither could I, but that is what he is.
Er, yeah, right.
>
>> >I excpected more from him than the average user.
>> >
>> >Rant off, I'm having a bad day with linux & its users.
>> >
>> Hmmm. Maybe you're just having a bad day in the advocacy arena, and
>> thought of something which might save the day?
>>
>> You haven't said what was wrong with his linux, why it 'refused
>> to run' (I quote). You haven't fixed anything, but have told us
>> that Microsoft provide CDs from which it's impossible to install.
>
>I wasn't *talking* about Linux, I was talking about why you don't need to
>re-install windows.
>Microsoft provide CDs from which it's very much possible to install.
>But CD has a tendacy to get unreadable if you threat them wrongly.
You say quite clearly at the start of this thread that the
problem was with slackware, and you even say part way up this
post that you would install a third party package in order to
be able to read the ext2 filesystem.
You also state quite clearly that the Microsoft CD was uninstallable
from. You try to claim that he had to use a CD because he had no
floppy. You do not explain how he had slackware on the machine
in the first place.
You now state that even that CDROM failure was the user's fault!
>
>> I would strongly recommend anyone even considering installing an
>> OS to avoid anything from microsoft (see this example here from
>> a genuine microsoft advocate of how difficult it really it) to
>> install debian GNU/Linux instead.
>
>Hard? The system worked, the only thing that didn't work was the DUN, and
>that was fixed in five minutes.
I heartily recommend Debian GNU/Linux. I *do not* recommend installing
Win98 to fix slackware, as indicated in this posting by Ayende.
I would recommend using slackware's own bootdisks to fix slackware.
Mark
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:08:53 +0000
In article <8vpegl$52a0r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <8vp2pl$3prmn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>> >
>> >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >
>> >> Therefore your claim that partition handling is a problem for
>> >> storing registry information in a separate partition is
>> >> specious.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> That's what I was saying. Hope that clarifies for you.
>> >
>> >What exactly is it that you are propusing?
>> >Another partition with a FS on it, or a raw partition?
>> >I think we were talking about different things here.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Whatever you'd like. Personally I'd choose a reliable
>> filesystem design, but you can design your own if you'd
>> prefer.
>
>No, thank you.
>I don't intend to add another FS to the many that already exist.
>Not that I think that I can, without some major studying.
>
>
Well, Win9x can only read FAT, so maybe you'd be better
sticking with it?
Mark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Subject: Re: Linux for nitwits
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:13:58 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Glitch wrote:
>
>
>mark wrote:
>>
>> In article <mCxT5.10916$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> Jose Mirles wrote:
>> >Nutty Professor wrote:
>> >
>> >> As one of those Linux nitwits, I have to disagree. I own a ThinkPad
>> >> 701C notebook. The 701C comes with an external floppy drive and no
>> >> CD-ROM. This means that in order to install Windows 95, I must
>> >> create dozens of floppy disks, then spend hours inserting them into
>> >
>> >-- snip --
>> >
>> >As an average user of both Windows and Linux, I think that Linux
>> >still has a ways to go to catch up with Windows. While I had no
>> >problems with the installations of Linux (Redhat 6.1/7.0 and Mandrake
>> >7.1/7.2), I have seen too many people quit after being confused with
>> >the questions asked during installation.
>> >
>>
>> I've never seen a newbie install windows from scratch. It
>> would be interesting to give, eg., my folks a PC with linux
>> on it and a windows Cd and see how far they got.
>>
>> >Heck, at work we give out a small application called Packet PC,
>> >designedto offer a quick means to call in and connect with or
>> >mainframe applications. It comes on two diskettes and we have people
>> >that can properly install that! It's just a small Windows app, type
>> >"a:\setup" in the RUN option and it does the rest.
>>
>> Exactly, they can't manage to run a simple DOS program, let alone
>> something complex like a windows one.
>>
>> >
>> >I have seen tons of people in Best Buy and numerous PC shops with
>> >simple Windows problems. Frankly, I am surprised by some of the
>> >things I have seen people bring back their PC for. I have come to the
>> >conclusion that some people just want a simple looking, simple
>> >running OS to use. They don't care about the problems, securities,
>> >etc. The average Joe and Jane will not use MS's Windows update or
>> >install any patches. I can't even count the times I have heard users
>> >complain of a virus and they are running a AV program with a year old
>>
>> Err, year old what?
>>
>antivirus looks for. Each signature for every virus is stored in the
>identified. This is the file that needs updated as it is what really
>powers the AV program so that you can find and eradicate the newest
>viruses. If you have an old .dat file from a year ago you might as well
>not have an AV program running as it just about defeats the purpose of
>having it.
Ah, okay. I'm still having trouble parsing the original sentence,
but wtf, I have trouble with all kinds of things :)
Mark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Subject: Re: Microsoft Encouraging OEMs to "protect" customers from pirate software
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:17:31 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Glitch wrote:
>
>
>mark wrote:
>>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >The best excuse I have heard Microsoft said about why they dislike piracy
>> >is when the said "When you download pirated software you donot know
>> >whether it has patched beta code or a virus", I would rather take my
>> >chances with pirated software (though I donot use it) because at least if
>>
>> don't you mean 'when'?
>>
>
>i hardly ever download something that doesn't work. I got over 15 CDs
>worth of programs (with the correct serials) that i've downloaded,
>tested, and use. Some things I got just to say I have them but don't
>have a use for, like AutoCAD R14. But they almost always work. I'd say
>there is a 90% chance the program will work which is very good. Besides,
>even if it doesn't all you lost was your time to download it. It's not
>like you paid for it and have a reason to complain.
Sorry, my remark was flippant. In all honesty, this is one of the
main reasons why I like debian & free software in general. I can
download, copy, patch, whatever as much as I like, with no concern
about something being pirated, illegal or whatever. I can also
check the source-code to be sure that what I'm getting is what
I think I'm getting.
Mark
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Bug-time.... where is NT?
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 18:20:14 -0500
Giuliano Colla wrote:
>
> Charlie Ebert wrote:
> >
> >
> > Precisely!
> >
> > Microsoft throws just about everything they did
> > away and writes it from scratch. And each time
> > it takes them longer to produce the next generation
> > OS. And in this process they introduce more bugs
> > and security problems than was produced in the last
> > release.
> >
> > Microsoft is not like Linux in the respect that
> > Linux can build on past sucesses.
> >
> > Microsoft has no past sucesses to build upon.
> > All they seem to know how to do is to re-invent
> > the wheel constantly.
> >
>
> I must partly disagree with you. If they stumble in some
> very idiotic idea, then they stick with it. Maybe they
> rewrite the code. But it's just a different implementation
> of the same idiotic idea.
But even the idiotic ideas, they end up having to re-invent.
>
> > They are more marketing hype than substance.
>
> On that I fully agree.
>
> >
> > Charlie
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Transport <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:17:38 -0800
A transfinite number of monkeys wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:14:58 +0200, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : IMHO the Gnome team is now in serious catchup mode.
>
> Since it's your opinion, I'm sure you can back that up with a
> justification,
> RIGHT? Let's hear it.. KDE still looks very cartoony to me. If I want a
> cartoon, I'll go watch TV...
>
Sorry to butt in, but I'm using KDE2 and like it alot. What 'justification'
are you looking for ? KNode is a nice news reader, Konqueror is a good
browser. "Cartoony" - your opinion I guess. Looks like a GUI to me. Look,
007, I haven't tried Gnome or any other windows mgr., but KDE works, has
alot of good features - if that's "cartoony", so be it.
jbarntt
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 18:23:23 -0500
mark wrote:
>
> In article <8vovn1$59l4v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> >> No. The RFC is the 'final' name. Before that they're called
> >> something like 'draft-do-me-this-protocol', then they later
> >> become rfc9876.txt once they're 'approved'.
> >>
> >> My question was _much_ more subtle than that. What is the
> >> difference between a real rfc and an 'informational' one. I
> >> suspect its related to IP ownership (ip = intellectual
> >> property here). I don't want to know whether someone thinks
> >> that the IETF may or may not do something, I want to know what
> >> they actually do.
> >>
> >> I do know that the ITU used to prevent owned IP becoming standards,
> >> but then relaxed that position about 6 years ago. I know about
> >> this because I was a UN rapporteur for about 10 years. That
> >> experience, amongst other things, has left me very suspicious
> >> about words which apparently add no value appearing in titles.
> >> In the standards arena, they usually mean something important,
> >> otherwise the editor of the document would have removed them.
> >
> >Thanks for the info, but, as another poster pointed out, it's really a moot
> >point, as this is not the important part of what you need to know in order
> >to copy the way windows does it, this has
> >already been figured out.
> >
>
> I still want to know what an 'Informational' rfc is. Does
> anyone know?
Something in place of a REAL, fully-documented RFC.
>
> Mark
> >
> >
> >
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
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