Linux-Advocacy Digest #561, Volume #30 Thu, 30 Nov 00 12:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: LA Times article re. Microsoft... (Mike Raeder)
Re: Is design really that overrated? (Mike Raeder)
Re: Things I have noticed................ ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Whistler review. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: How Tux helps Linux succeed (was: Is design really that overrated?) ("the_blur")
Re: Linux is awful (Robert Wiegand)
Re: Whistler review. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Whistler review. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is awful (Johan De Wit)
Re: Whistler review. (J.C.)
Windows review ("Snarf")
Re: Netscape review. (Spicerun)
Re: Linux is awful ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is awful ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Artur Biesiadowski)
Re: Whistler review. (mitch)
Re: linux on a 486 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Whistler review. (Ilja Booij)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike Raeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: LA Times article re. Microsoft...
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 00:27:49 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I agree. The only people who believe Microsoft is the best software
> producer are hiding from the facts. Microsoft is a large, inefficient
> and corrupt organization that needs to get purged by the DOJ.
Makes me think of ESR's statement about M$ being like $GOVERNMENT. It's big,
stupid, and has the potetial for evil.
--
Since-beer-leekz,
Mikey
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit
materiari?
------------------------------
From: Mike Raeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is design really that overrated?
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 00:35:54 -0500
mark wrote:
> >We are talking about the general publik here. I'm not
> >saying that I really care for Linux to be mass marketed. I
> >do know that the general publik likes to be spoonfed
> >technology with snappy looking GUIs.
>
> Do they? see my comments on internet below.
>
> >
> >>
> >> This whole thread assumes that the *only* way of gaining brand
> >> recognition, image etc., is through advertising and pretty pictures
> >> and logos. This is simply not true.
Do you think that john consumer would be interested in the 1987 text based
internet?
> >> The _internet_ is amazingly well known, but has no brand image or
> >> logo at all.
> >
> >What about AOL?
That's because of those flashy dot-com adverts on the telly. As pathetic as it
is, non-tech john consumer needs/wants that flash.
--
Since-beer-leekz,
Mikey
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit
materiari?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Things I have noticed................
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:16:24 GMT
In article <901c1n$pro$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I know the post I did was very "wintroll like", however, I am only
> > trying to stir a bit of shyte in this newsgroups :) with the absence of
> > Claire Lynn and co, things have been getting pretty boring, needed to
> > post something to liven up the atmosphere.
>
> Someone admits that cola is based on BS and trolling. It's about F'n time!
There are genuine debater's, then there are bullshiters like you.
>
> > Here are the proper things I have noticed:
> --snip--
>
> > Here are the main three main OS's I have tried:
> >
> > Windows 2000: (from my experience), fairly stable, pretty good hardware
> > support. However, the hardware requirements of Windows 2000 are pretty
> > steep when compared to it's competition. Also, whether Windows 2000 is
> > more secure than previous NT releases, this has yet to be proven. For a
> > dedicated Wintel user, yes it is a defininate upgrade, however, for
> > Linux/UNIX users, Microsoft is still playing catch-up in terms of
> > realibility, stability and scalability.
>
> More Shite. w2k runs as well on most boxes that were equipped to run NT4.
> This is fact. I've tried it and I've seen it. Get over it, please.
Please, considering this (Win2000) OS that has just introduced the
ability to restrict the amount of server space each client can have, and
proclaiming this to be a major feature of Windows 2000....God, Netware
and UNIX have had this feature for ages, then there is the NTFS that is
16% slower than FAT16, that fact is directly from the Windows 2000 Mag,
security holes in the ASP server, and the minimum system requirement of
256MB RAM, excessive, too bloody right it is.
> > UNIX/Linux: (from my experience), very stable, average hardware support.
> > The minimum hardware requirements are not as steep as Windows 2000,
> ye.....snip..
>
> Really? Then maybe you can 'splain why running a standard install of
redhat
> with only NN & X running consumes 25 more mb than w2k with IE?
Maybe that's just Redhat.
>
> >Although the reliability of Windows NT has improved, it
> > still has a way to go to reach the same level of respect UNIX has in
> > large corperatio....
>
> Which is it folks? Make up your minds here. End user? Or corporations?
> Pick a group, and group.
I was stating that this is the status of OS's now! However, if
everything stays on track, GUI's become more mature, hardware support is
increased, and more software is ported to Linux, the chance's of Linux
suceeding on the desktop is relatively high.
kiwiunixman
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:32:33 GMT
In article <7LrV5.101$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I have talked to developers, and their own opinion was the the Win32 API
> > is a bitch to write programs around. Win32 API is a mish-mash of
> > different parts thrown together in a blender, when compared with cleanly
> > written API's such as the ones included with BeOS, which are fully
> > documented, for real!
> >
> > kiwiunixman
>
> The word "bitch" doesn't even come close....
Why am I a bitch? If I forgot to mention Linux, then, I'm sorry. Linux
has a good set of API's too, the great thing is, you (as a developer)
can contribute to it (linux API), hence, the overall developer
experience is made better.
kiwiunixman
>
> --
> Tom Wilson
> Go home Al....
> Game over, man!
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "the_blur" <the_blur_oc@*removespamguard*hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: How Tux helps Linux succeed (was: Is design really that overrated?)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:46:54 -0500
> I think "lobotomized" covers it pretty well.
Hehe, Ouch. But I concur, wholeheartedly.
> Use Linux to get chicks? Perhaps you could pull a Nicholas Cage, as
> in 'Wild at Heart': "This here is a penguin-skin jacket and it's a
> symbol for my individuality and belief in personal freedom!"
>
> It might even work.
Hehe, last time I tried this, I got a wedgie so bad, I had to call the fire
department for help =)
> We got the BSD crowd there. Of course, chicks may prefer horny^Hed
> devils.
Hear hear!
> I agree. Most I can think of involve broken glass. And trademark
> infringement lawsuits.
lol...
------------------------------
From: Robert Wiegand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:26:30 -0600
Guy wrote:
> windows is easy to use...no brainer to use most of the time plus you can
> get support up the wazoo...but its unstable, erratic, and downright
> bloody annoying...
Windows may be easy to use, but is is *not* easy ti install.
A big problem is that many people compare a pre-installed Windows
to a install-it-your self Linux. Then then complain that Linux
is too difficult.
They should really try doing a Windows install before complaining.
--
Regards,
Bob Wiegand [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:51:08 GMT
Yet so many wintrols still don't get the message!
kiwiunixman
In article <904172$4tc0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <903r8i$594r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> In article <8vulpl$5pbkd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >"Spicerun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> >> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > When did you last used MS OS?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Today at Work......Win2K. Performs like garbage compared to
the Sun
> > >> >system
> > >> >> in the next cubicle. Performs like garbage compared to my Linux
> > >laptop.
> > >> >
> > >> >How is it set up?
> > >> >On what hardware?
> > >> >What is it doing?
> > >> >
> > >> >I'm not seeking answers to this question, btw.
> > >> >I'm showing that there is a lot more to how well the OS perform than
> the
> > >OS
> > >> >itself.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Ah, a question that's not a question. So glad you could clarify,
> > >> otherwise we might have thought that you *really* wanted to know
> > >> what's wrong with NT5/Win2k
> > >
> > >It's calls a rethoric question.
> > >
> > >I've done phone support before, email support is even worse,
because you
> > >don't get real-time feedback.
> > >I'm not going to try and provide you with support you could get if you
> would
> > >find a non - advocacy group about windows.
> > >news://microsoft.public.win2000.general is a good place to start asking
> > >questions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Whereas you think that cola is a good place to *not* ask questions?
>
> advocacy groups are not the place to find support.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:52:43 GMT
Yet so many wintrols still don't get the message!
kiwiunixman
In article <904172$4tc0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <903r8i$594r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> In article <8vulpl$5pbkd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >"Spicerun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> >> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > When did you last used MS OS?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Today at Work......Win2K. Performs like garbage compared to
the Sun
> > >> >system
> > >> >> in the next cubicle. Performs like garbage compared to my Linux
> > >laptop.
> > >> >
> > >> >How is it set up?
> > >> >On what hardware?
> > >> >What is it doing?
> > >> >
> > >> >I'm not seeking answers to this question, btw.
> > >> >I'm showing that there is a lot more to how well the OS perform than
> the
> > >OS
> > >> >itself.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Ah, a question that's not a question. So glad you could clarify,
> > >> otherwise we might have thought that you *really* wanted to know
> > >> what's wrong with NT5/Win2k
> > >
> > >It's calls a rethoric question.
> > >
> > >I've done phone support before, email support is even worse,
because you
> > >don't get real-time feedback.
> > >I'm not going to try and provide you with support you could get if you
> would
> > >find a non - advocacy group about windows.
> > >news://microsoft.public.win2000.general is a good place to start asking
> > >questions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Whereas you think that cola is a good place to *not* ask questions?
>
> advocacy groups are not the place to find support.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Johan De Wit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:52:40 GMT
Hi,
I only have problems installing MS. =20
Installing linux goes as a train.
Or is it because I dislike (read hate) MS products.
Jo
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (J.C.)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 1 Dec 2000 03:03:39 +1100
On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:43:20 +0200, Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>Because you've not seen what win2k can do?
>TPC proves that it can do it.
Not necessarily. Under what conditions?
>TPC results are reproducable.
>Can you say the same about your experiance?
>
>I'm not saying that you should take TPC results better than your own
>experiance, I'm saying that I'm unwilling to accept *your* experiance,
Well, that's your loss then... should I care?
and
>that other's experiance, including insdury standard tests, shows otherwise.
Next time I get called up to admin an NT or 2k box, I'll point them to Mr. TPC and Co.
Thanks for the tip...
--
J.C.
"The free flow of information along data highways being piped into our
homes and offices will permit unimaginable control by a small elite..."
-- 'The Thunder of Justice', pg. 264
------------------------------
From: "Snarf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Windows review
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:18:34 -0500
Reply-To: "Snarf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Good old shit, the best windows review ever :)
Well I bought it up
Brought Windows home and tried to boot it up
But when I load it up
It says my memory is not enough
I've been runnin' out
I need some extra RAM to fix me up
I have to cough it up
Open my wallet up
It never stops, never stops, never stops, never stops
It's Windows 95
It's sucking up my drive
It makes a Pentium fly
But my PC
Is obsolete
I'll have to buy myself a brand new machine
Stick me up
You suck me in and then you got me hooked
You got me, you got me
There's so much stuff to buy
I need a new hard drive
It's gonna suck me dry
My CPU
Don't have the speed
It takes an hour just to bring up the screen...
<snip>
-Weird Al
PS: This applies to any version of windows, not just 95.
------------------------------
From: Spicerun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Netscape review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:51:00 +0000
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> spicerun wrote:
> >
> > Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > > -Chad
> >
> > Actually, more of a 'hanging chad'
>
> Can I pull the lever?
Only to flush.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:25:49 GMT
On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:43:59 GMT, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Anti-linux propoganda"? If the rest of the group don't have certain
>problems, does that automatically mean they don't exist?
Of course they have problems they just ignore them, work around them
or when all else fails deny them. Then they flood the group with
twisted versions of the problem and how the person is inept. Classic
example is my cut and paste problem. I kept repeating over and over
and over yet again "use the menues " between Netscape and Kedit and
see what happens. The Penguinista's kept posting middle mouse button
methods all the while ignoring that several other people posted that
they had similar problems.
>Are you telling me my problems with SB16 and AHA152x are anti-Linux
>propoganda? They exist. They're real. Other people may not have
>experienced them, but that does not make them any less real.
They will deny them just the same because of some hcl or the fact that
someone was able to get an 8k sampling rate squeak out of the card so
it must work under Linux.
The Penguinista's are one step from the Hare' Krishna's.
claire
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:28:36 GMT
I agree with the post regarding drivers for X, what I would also like to
see is a greater committment by graphic card, scsi and sound card makers
of providing decent drivers for linux for their respective cards. It is
nice to see that there are companies like Creative Labs, who are willing
to support Linux openly.
kiwiunixman
In article <905obj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (James W. Swonger) wrote:
> I have had Linux experiences which cover the range. The biggest problem
> I've had is with the video (X), the cards evolve too fast for the drivers
> to keep up and you run a good chance (1 in 3, in my cases) of having a
> machine that won't automagically set up, despite the best intentions of
> the user-friendliest distributions.
>
> What I think is really missing is a good hardware oriented Linux site,
> which tests and lists boxes/packaged systems, and peripherals, which
> are truly "no hassle Linux". With user comments and links to drivers.
> If there was a way for "lusers" to see what did and didn't work ahead
> of time, and vendors knew how many people were shopping on this basis,
> (hit stats) maybe there would be motivation for better availability of
> drivers and config scripts.
>
> I have been to a couple of Linux hardware sites, but they don't seem
> to be what I envision. I wish somebody like Linux Journal would take
> up this sort of thing, but it might be too lowbrow and tedious for
> them.
>
> In article <905iu0$1coo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> The REAL problem
> >> with Linux is that there aren't an incredible amount of preconfigured
> >> Linux
> >> boxes for home use (compared to the numbers for MS). If there was a
> >> higher
> >> number of easily available home Linux boxes already configured, and
they
> >> had customer support departments that know as much about Linux as
Windows,
> >> it would be a lot easier to get started. Most of the problem is
getting
> >> Linux setup, and getting all the hardware working, which is
difficult for
> >> non-computer oriented folk. (And some Linux users as well as Windows
> >users
> >> look down on these people, unfortunately). Actually using
something like
> >> KDE 2.0, or Gnome is not that tough once it's setup properly. My
> >> computer-despising fiance has no trouble using KDE 2.0 for her everyday
> >> usage (email & word processing).
> >
> >Frankly, I think that setuping linux is the easiest part of the
> >installation.
> >About the only thing that is hard in it is the repartitioning part.
> >And using it for normal tasks like browsing and email and word
processing is
> >very simple as well.
> >The problem start when you try to go a little beyond this.
> >Due to a very steep learning curve, most users will simply give it up,
> >saying it's too hard, and will never get their computer to its full
> >potential.
>
> --
> ##########################################################################
> #Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons #
> #living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-#
> #sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!#
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Artur Biesiadowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:50:00 +0100
Ayende Rahien wrote:
> What is so wrong in telling your friends/contractors to save in another
> format?
"Please download following file, fill it with your personal data and
send it back to us".
Of course I can tell them: I do not own needed version of Office, could
you please post another version of resume to fill, so I can do this ?
Will they care ? Maybe... maybe not.
This is a real example (not actual words, because it was polish company
and advertised in polish). I was NOT interested to join it, so it was
not a problem for me - I just have not seen what they would like to know
about people they want to hire. But for people interested in offer it
could be a problem.
Another example - quite big company selling computer parts in Poland
send updated price list to it's resellers once per week (in Excel
format). It is quite handy, as you can work directly on their data,
without needed to import things from plain text/html. They also send
some infos in doc format. I know that my father (which is a reseller of
their parts) was forced to upgrade to read their data. It wasn't so bad,
because there were already other sources of files which was unreadable
by him - but in previous cases he asked this people to save in
compatible format. Unfortunately this big company mass mail this
documents to hundreds of companies in Poland - and I doubt if they will
downgrade format because of one small reseller whining about his old
word/excel not being able to read new fancy formatted files.
Artur
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mitch)
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:50:45 GMT
On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:53:26 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>In terms of databases, I dispise Access, I prefer
>using Filemaker, much easier, and producers the same/better results that
>Access.
>
I can`t stand windowed database apps - I am only comfortable with
pl/sql.
--
Smileys are nothing but conceptual wheelchair ramps for the humor impaired.
- Geoff Miller
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: linux on a 486
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:49:22 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Micah Higgs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> i have a 81 meg hard disk and only 2 megs of ram.
Ouch. I haven't seen a Linux distro which could run
in that tiny a space. The smallest rating I've
seen for a *usable* distribution is about 100MB of
hard drive space and 4MB of RAM. Slackware's
"ZipSlack" distribution for running in a 100MB DOS
partition won't even fit on your system.
While your original question implied lack of money,
I really think you might want to upgrade a little
bit, say to 8MB RAM and at least a 200MB hard drive.
Even the overpriced mom and pop shops around where I
live charge less than $40 for a 340MB hard drive.
Heck, you can sometimes find an entire 486 *computer*,
for about $75, with more RAM and hard drive space
than you currently have!
> i would get more ram but it is the old 30 pin kind
> for IBM type computers. dose anyone have this kind
> or know how to get it cheap?
Well, you'd think you'd find it cheap, but you won't.
That kind of RAM SIMM is very difficult to find these
days, and the limited supply drives up the price for
all shops, except maybe the folks wanting to dump
their 30-pin SIMM RAM, and they can get a better price
on their 30-pin ram by selling them as *keychains*
rather than as memory.
A local shop prices 30-pin 4MB SIMMs at $32 per
SIMM, and 1MB SIMMs for $10 each. Memory prices
have gone up again, old and new memory alike.
You might be able to find a mail-order place with
cheaper prices, but they will be sending you used
SIMMs, and there are shipping costs to increase the
price.
I really hate trying to solve Linux problems by
suggesting that someone "spend money", but one way
which I got around your kind of problem was with a
little money. At a recent surplus auction at a local
community college (call the college offices in your
area for details on similar auctions) I purchased
three 100Mhz Pentium machines, with 800MB hard drives,
16MB of RAM, and a number of video and other cards,
for about $7.50 each. Monitors and keyboards were
purchased as part of stacks of hardware for about $20
for a 17" monitor, and $5 each for three 15" monitors
(sorry, people knew the value of the 19" monitors,
which went for $120 each).
The gaming industry has everyone thinking that 450Mhz
machines are *slow*, so you can really clean up at
local auctions.
EBay is different, since you aren't competing against
local folks who might not realize that a 100MHz Pentium
is still very useful. A large chunk of Internet users
know the value of a 100Mhz Pentium (some of them are
even Linux users) and won't let you get one for $7.50.
There are also local and travelling computer shows
to check into. You will probably find out about them
in newspaper ads and any local computing independent
newspapers. These shows typically cost $3-$8 to get
in, but they have dozens to hundreds of vendors eager
not to have to take anything home with them. I've
purchased a 10" testing VGA monitor for $3, 16MB of
30-pin SIMM RAM for $20, CPUs, printers, motherboards,
hard drives, etc., all for well below local store
prices. You can get the best prices from vendors
at just before the show closes, since anything you
buy from them right before they have to pack is
something they don't have to pack.
> and befor i fdisk the computer to laod linux is thare
> a help book so i dont kill the computer.(i am new to
> linux) the only system i know right know is ms-dos.
> so how differnt is linux from the other systems?
OOooo, complete newbie. Lessee, you're probably stuck
with the Slackware Linux distribution, so a good book
on the Slackware Linux distribution would be good.
Slackware Linux even has a basic floppy install, so
you might even be able to install a base system on
your 486. You just won't be able to do many productive
things on it (especially not the Internet). You will
still need a box of floppies (about 25 should do) and
a desktop computer with an operating system (any kind),
knowledge on how to use that operating system, and a
CDROM drive on that desktop computer.
81MB. Hmmm. You will need to partition the drive.
Slackware has instructions on this, and you will need
to use the Linux FDISK. I would create two primary
partitions (unlike DOS, you can create two primary
partitions), one which is 8MB in size and the other
one using up all remaining space (about 72MB or so).
Use the "t" command to change the partition type of
the first partition to 82, and leave the partition
type of the second partition at 83. This will give
you a "swap" partition of 8MB (4 times physical
memory) and a "root" partition of 72MB.
This will give you enough room to install the
"A-series" of Slackware disks (50MB required). I'd
hunt around on the N-series of disks for a package
called "pine.tgz" and install it as well (command:
"installpkg pine.tgz"). PINE is normally known as
an e-mail program (which you won't be doing on *this*
system) but it includes a text editor called PICO
which is very easy to use (unlike VI or EMacs;
remember, he is a complete newbie!).
Chances are you will not have a serious enough error
that you will kill the computer, with any current
distribution of Linux. If you run into problems,
you can always wipe out the drive and restore it to
full DOS compatibility by booting with a DOS boot
disk and using the following commands:
[1]
fdisk /mbr
[2]
fdisk
The first command restores the Master Boot Record,
which is where the Linux Loader (LILO) is usually
stored on your hard drive. The second command lets
you remove the Linux partitions and create new
DOS partitions.
> Bruce Scott TOK wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > Micah Higgs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >is it possibul to put linux on a 486/66mhz with only a floppy
drive?
> >
> > Floppy only is tough, though there are likely solutions. I ran with
> > Linux on a 486/DX2 40 with 4 MB ram and 80 MB hard disk for several
> > years. It is very possible but you have to know what you are doing
to
> > do the install since all the defaults on the modern easy packages
will
> > install much more than 100 MB.
> >
> > Run Slackware or Debian if you are going small on old hardware...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Ilja Booij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: 30 Nov 2000 17:50:44 +0100
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > A follow up question, why does Windows NT Server install a web browser?
> > It's a web fucking server, not a workstation, hence, why have a web
> > browser installed?
>
> Because its' an intregal part of the OS and can't be removed.
why make the WEB-browser an integral part of a server-OS?
Ilja
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