Linux-Advocacy Digest #594, Volume #30 Fri, 1 Dec 00 18:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Steve Mading)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Steve Mading)
Re: Linux is awful ("Michael Williams")
Re: Linux is awful ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Netscape review. (Eric Remy)
Re: Linux is awful ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version ("Chad Myers")
Re: Windows review ("Vann")
Re: The Sixth Sense (Steve Mading)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Steve Mading)
Re: Linux is awful ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version (JoeX1029)
Re: Linux is awful ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Linux is awful ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Netscape review. ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Linux is awful (John Thompson)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Matt Kennel)
Re: Goodwin Acknowledges he's an idiot. ("MH")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: 1 Dec 2000 21:02:30 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad C. Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: So you are saying that if I write an application that creates a file of an
: efficient format for my application. The market likes my application and a
: majority buy it. Then a copy cat comes along and creates a similar
: application, it is my responsibility to make sure he can read my files.
: Not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are falsely assuming that all the other word processors came
after yours did. That doesn't apply here. We're talking about MS
Word, which was not the first. Nice attempt to whitewash the
issue by making the implication that all other vendors are the
"copycats". Nice try.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:13:09 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert:) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>YOU GUY'S have to remember here that what makes
>me SO CRANKY about Windows is I end up getting
>picked up by the CORP van at 2:30 or 3:30 am
>to fix this crap when it goes down. I'm often
>in the office in my robe when this crap happens
>and I usually don't get it locked down until
>10 or 11 am.
>
>And I'm tired of that. I really am.
Then... change it, Charlie. Or change jobs.
>It scares me because I don't always get a page
>when this kind of stuff happens and one night
>I almost shot my boss at the door. I didn't
>know what the hell was going on, only that
>somebody was BEATING at my door.
>
>From that night forward he rings me to death
>before he comes.
Why would anyone tolerate this kind of job, Charlie. Perhaps you should
move on?
>I don't like Window desktop as the system
>registry prevents me from dragging a compiler
>home now. The security key crap.
It's called "licensing". You buy your own copy if you want the compiler. If
you take it from work (and the licence) key it's called "stealing".
I bought my own copy of Microsoft VC++ and Borland Delphi. It cost me
around �600 but I figured it was worth it.
What did Linus say? He who writes the software gets to write the copyright?
>So, overall, I'm very very pissed about
>the whole thing and if I can get just
>spend my time convincing people to leave
>Windows.
Then why aren't you leaving it yourself? Why aren't you practicing what you
preach?
--
Pete Goodwin
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: 1 Dec 2000 21:11:09 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad C. Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Of course if I'm the power user I could ask them the voltage and frequency
: and buitd a transformer/bridge to adjust their feeds to my needs.
This analogy doesn't match up to the Microsoft Word situation for
two reasons:
1 - The notion of how AC power works is not patented, protected
information. The knowlege of how to make a transformer/bridge to
go from one frequency/voltage/amps to another is public knowlege
for those willing to take the time to learn it.
2- If all that varies from vendor to vendor is those three
variables (freq/volt/amp), then you don't need to spend months
on one special solution that only applies to one vendor like you
do with word processor formats.
------------------------------
From: "Michael Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:26:00 -0500
Reply-To: "Michael Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
You don't have to uninstall it. Haven't you ever heard of upgrading (in this
case, rpm -u filename?)
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Snarf) wrote in
> <908k90$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >Pete, why don't you stop bitching about KDE being unstable, head over to
> >their site and download the latest version? I totally agree with you,
> >the beta version that came with LM7.2 crashes all the time, but the KDE2
> >final is rock stable.
>
> I have KDE 2.0 on a seperate set of CD's. I tried to remove KDE as
> installed by Mandrake 7.2, then install the one on the CD. BANG! my system
> locked up tighter than a drum. Nothing responded, not even remote login.
>
> --
> Pete Goodwin
> ---
> Why don't I use Linux?
> Waiting for Borland to release Delphi.
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:39:44 GMT
On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:26:00 -0500, "Michael Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>You don't have to uninstall it. Haven't you ever heard of upgrading (in this
>case, rpm -u filename?)
I used the upgrade function and it turned my functioning (well at
least as good as Linux can function) system into a veggie.
claire
------------------------------
From: Eric Remy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Netscape review.
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 16:41:56 -0500
In article <908vr1$71j1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Add to it an utterly miserable JVM, at least in older versions. At
>> least the newer ones allow you to use Apple's runtime.
>> Tack on glacial performance.
>> Crash happy. Sometimes (used to be always) kills the system on crash.
>> Likes to install stuff you specifically ask not to, such as AIM.
>
>Oh, I really *loved* that one, two icons of real player on my desktop, one
>of them named "take5" for some misterious reason, and has a different
>icon.
Even better on a Mac: it installs AIM into the menu bar. You can't just
trash it: you have to go play with extensions.
>> But at least it runs Chime correctly: MSIE on both Mac and PC tends to
>> die with too many embedded molecules. (And the Mozilla team fixed the
>> incompatibility with 6.0 when I reported it from the beta- kudos. MS
>> hasn't done so yet.) At least that's something...
>
>What is chime?
http://www.mdli.com 3-d molecular visualization plugin. Very, very
nice toy for those of use who teach chemistry.
>About MSIE, there is a service pack for IE 5.5, I don't know if it's
>applicable to macs, though.
No.
--
Eric Remy. Chemistry Learning Center Director, Virginia Tech
"I don't like (quantum mechanics), | How many errors can
and I'm sorry I ever had anything | you find in my X-Face?
to do with it."- Erwin Schrodinger |
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:41:48 GMT
First of all I need to apoligize if I do this wrong
as I am new to newsgroups
I am a Linux Newbie....
The way I see it is if you want to do something new
Just do it.. I love Windows, But I like to learn new things too...
I hate entering command lines...
Oh well ya gotta do things you dont like to do to accomplish what ya
want to do....
Have Fun...
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:37:27 GMT
"Ed Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:907jgd$t2q$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <3a26e716$0$3654$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Conrad Rutherford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-3937182.html?pt.ms..feed.ne_home
> >
> >I can't blame them, lack of interest is why MS dropped support for other
> >chips in W2K.
> >
> No, they dropped the more powerful CPUs because NT could not be
> rewritten to both stress those systems and not slow to a crawl on
> the contemporaneous Intel CPUs.
Um... please. Let's stick with facts. Demand for NT on anything other
than x86 was light, at best.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows review
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:04:48 GMT
In article <908cgh$96a7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "SuperGumby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:6iNV5.676$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> I'm a Windows diehard, but if you want me to run win9x on a 386 with a
>> GB
> of
>> RAM you can keep dreamin'.
>
> Those are the minimum requirements, it would install and work on such a
> machine.
>
I may not personally like Windows, but I'm not particularly biased. If
anyone thinks that Windows will run well on a 386, he or she is crazy.
Windows95 on a 386 is beyond unusable, as is X on a *nix. Windows barely
works on a 486, I used to use it, actually. Linux seemed to do better on
the 486, though, since I could use a window manager that took up fewer
resources than explorer.exe ( Window Maker, Blackbox, etc. ) I'm sure if
Windows came with an alternate, fully-functional, light-weight shell, it
would be useable as well.
>> on a 486/66 with 64MB, RH5.2 and Win95 (providing similar
>> functionality) worked OK, RH6.0 was almost unusable but may have pipped
>> win98.
>
> 64MB is a big amount of RAM, even today.
Heh, I'm not so sure about that. Right now RAM is dirt cheap. You can
get 128MB here for atound $50-$65, 64MB about $20-$30. And, from what I
can see, it won't go much higher if DDR RAM makes a big splash.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: 1 Dec 2000 22:16:10 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad C. Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: "mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
:> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Byrns wrote:
:> >
:> >How about going to the root of the problem and updating your BIOS?
:> >
:>
:> My BIOS has nothing to do with Win98 failing to shut down.
:>
: Actually it has everything to do with it.
You contradict this statement down below.
:> Interestingly, if I use APM and linux on the same hardware,
:> not only does it close down properly, but it powers down as
:> well.
:>
: So you got the correct drivers.
Make up your mind - is it the BIOS (a hardware thing) or the
drivers for it (an OS thing)?
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: 1 Dec 2000 22:13:08 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy James A. Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Not with cell networks they haven't. And pricing has dropped a <lot>
: faster there than it did under the 'utility' model applied to standard
: phone service. Letting competing vendors have at it in an open market
: usually works out best. The 'utilities' you worry about are all
: <government created> monopolies - they didn't get that way themselves.
The utilities might be government-created monopolies, but they are
not government-CAUSED monopolies. They are markets in which a
monopoly situation is *unavoidable*, because it's impractical
to have multiple copies of the infrastructure laid down in the area.
You can't have 4 different power companies running power lines down
the same street, or 4 different sewer companies laying pipe under the
same street, or 4 different phone companies putting up their own
seperate telephone poles down the same street.) These are called
"natural monopolies", because the exclusive nature of the
infrastructure makes it such that a monopoly will exist whether
you like it or not. In those cases, the evil of government
regulation is the lesser of two evils, when compared to letting
a monopoly run the way it wants to in a situation where there is
no possiblilty of competition (and therefore no accountability
to the consumer).
Now, IF a new technology develops that allows for competition
it might take over from the older natural monpoly technology.
This might happen in the future with wireless phones completely
replacing the existing copper-wire phone system. If and when
that day comes, then there would not need to be as much
government regulation (just a little from the FCC to make sure
that companies keep to their assigned frequencies so they don't
drown out thier competitors on the airwaves. (This was the
original reason the FCC was set up. In the early days of radio
one strongarm bully tactic would be for a broadcaster to use a
more powerful transmitter at the same frequency as a competitor,
to drown out their signal. The FCC's original task was to make
sure people stay in their own assigned frequencies and don't step
on each other's toes. Their asinine censoring activities came
about later, and were not part of their original mandate.) )
You can set up a new wireless phone transmitter in the same locale
as a competing one without stepping on its toes, by simply operating
at a different frequency.
So, in order of "badness", I see things as being like this:
best-> Technology that allows for open competition (wireless phones
for example).
not so good-> government-regulated utilities in natural monopoly
markets.
worst-> unregulated utilities in natural monpoly markets.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:27:27 -0600
that would be rpm -U filename. -u is the deprecated "uninstall" function.
"Michael Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:90953t$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> You don't have to uninstall it. Haven't you ever heard of upgrading (in
this
> case, rpm -u filename?)
> Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Snarf) wrote in
> > <908k90$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > >Pete, why don't you stop bitching about KDE being unstable, head over
to
> > >their site and download the latest version? I totally agree with you,
> > >the beta version that came with LM7.2 crashes all the time, but the
KDE2
> > >final is rock stable.
> >
> > I have KDE 2.0 on a seperate set of CD's. I tried to remove KDE as
> > installed by Mandrake 7.2, then install the one on the CD. BANG! my
system
> > locked up tighter than a drum. Nothing responded, not even remote login.
> >
> > --
> > Pete Goodwin
> > ---
> > Why don't I use Linux?
> > Waiting for Borland to release Delphi.
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JoeX1029)
Date: 01 Dec 2000 22:25:56 GMT
Subject: Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version
>Right now, RedHat would be best to concentrate on the Intel/AMD market,
>as the Sparc machines ALREADY HAVE a unix operating system on them.
Are you implying that x86 dosent have UNIX?
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:29:16 -0600
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Erik Funkenbusch) wrote in
> <UAEV5.3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >AFAIK all commercial packagers of Mandrake 7.2 include the pre-release
> >version. The versions on their web site have been updated to include
> >KDE 2 final. You can run MandrakeUpdate (you'll likely have to install
> >it) and it will tell you the actual versions (you should also be able to
> >do a rpm -q kdebase and see what package RPM thinks is installed.
>
> I downloaded all the updates and installed them. It didn't touch KDE2.0 as
> installed, mainly other things.
Then explain this:
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:30:18 -0600
Urgh.. sorry about the failed posting.
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Erik Funkenbusch) wrote in
> <UAEV5.3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >AFAIK all commercial packagers of Mandrake 7.2 include the pre-release
> >version. The versions on their web site have been updated to include
> >KDE 2 final. You can run MandrakeUpdate (you'll likely have to install
> >it) and it will tell you the actual versions (you should also be able to
> >do a rpm -q kdebase and see what package RPM thinks is installed.
>
> I downloaded all the updates and installed them. It didn't touch KDE2.0 as
> installed, mainly other things.
Then explain this:
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/updates/mdk72-updates.php3
2000-11-09 MDKA-2000:012 Linux-Mandrake 7.2 Updates for security, bug
fixes, and KDE 2.0 final are available.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Netscape review.
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:31:44 -0600
"Eric Remy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >Please don't insult the Mac people.....I doubt they're thrilled with IE.
>
> You'd be wrong. MSIE 5 for the Mac is one very nice browser. In several
> ways better than MSIE 5.5 for PC, including standards compliance. Given
> that Netscape sucks on Macs even worse than on Windows or Linux, it (or
> iCab) should be the choice for most folks who've actually compared the
> things.
Actually, MS brought the standards compliance up to the same level as IE5
for the Mac in IE 5.5 sp1.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:35:17 -0600
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >Themselves, actually.
> >
> >In order to keep their profit margins up, they must often sell new
versions
> >to their existing customers. In order to do that, they have to give the
> >customer something they want. No customer throws away a perfectly good
> >product for something that they don't want.
>
> So you buy a whole new OS every two years, because it has a feature you
> want? What are you, stupid?
I'm sorry, versus you who does not financially support the people working on
your OS.
I believe in compensating people that do things for me which help. That's
why I purchase even multiple versions of Linux rather than just downloading
them.
------------------------------
From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 15:44:14 -0600
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Robert Wiegand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> > Windows may be nice if everything works correctly, but it is a nightmare
> > when something fails. Since you can't see hwat is really happing inside
> > the OS it is really difficult to trace down and fix a problem.
>
> No, that is simply not true.
>
> > Windows is also a major pain to install if you have a number of
> > devices that aren't supported by the base OS. Installing everything
> > on my Windows PC takes about 5 CDROMS and 2 floppy disks. And you have
> > to reboot the stupid machine after installing each driver.
>
> I've 3 devices that are not supported by win9x natively (though win2k &
> whistler & some linux does support those natively), it's neither a nightmare
> nor does it require a reboot after each driver installation.
The last time I installed Windows (Win98 on my son's P200 64MB
machine) it took *8* reboots before Windows finally recognized
and used all the hardware I needed. I never could get it to find
or use the Exabyte SCSI tape drive, although that hasn't been a
problem since I don't use Windows to backup the machine. OS/2
and linux only needed one reboot each and found everything
without difficulty on the first pass.
--
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matt Kennel)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:53:58 +0000 (UTC)
Reply-To: mbkennel@<REMOVE THE BAD DOMAIN>yahoo.spam-B-gone.com
On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 17:19:43 GMT, James A. Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:Not with cell networks they haven't. And pricing has dropped a <lot>
:faster there than it did under the 'utility' model applied to standard
:phone service. Letting competing vendors have at it in an open market
:usually works out best. The 'utilities' you worry about are all
:<government created> monopolies - they didn't get that way themselves.
Some of them were indeed getting that way all on their own, and they
were subsequently regulated to prevent the inevitable abuse of customers
which was to come.
As far as the wireless phone service goes, the government certainly
does set standards for compatibility and transmission and interoperability
formats so that people can call each other on other vendor's networks,
and so that the signals from one vendor don't interfere with another's.
--
* Matthew B. Kennel/Institute for Nonlinear Science, UCSD
*
* "To chill, or to pop a cap in my dome, whoomp! there it is."
* Hamlet, Fresh Prince of Denmark.
------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Goodwin Acknowledges he's an idiot.
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:03:52 -0500
> The GPL situation guarantees
> future software develpment will
> be for exciting products which do
> not currently exist.
Uh huh. Like Gecko? I think that work has been going on for 3 years.
Read the reviews yet? It's every bit and more the bug fest that windows apps
provide.
Half of the Gnome apps core on a regular basis. I guess that IS exciting.
> The GNU/GPL has been around enough
> and sucessful enough the question
> of Windows future demise is
> assured.
Gee, where have we heard THIS before?
> It's already too late for the
> Windows programmer.
Tell that to the guy with the 5 bedroom house who delivers opinions like
yours in his stool.
> He's a thing from the last century.
Yeah, and probably your landlord too.
------------------------------
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