Linux-Advocacy Digest #601, Volume #30 Sat, 2 Dec 00 04:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux is awful (Avinash Meetoo)
Re: Linux is awful (Charlie Ebert)
Re: WINDOZE is awful (Adam Majer)
Re: OS Sound OFF. ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Netscape review. (nf)
Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version (Ed Allen)
Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version (Ed Allen)
Re: Comparing Linux (UnixGeek)
Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: Linux is awful (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux is awful (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux is awful (Pete Goodwin)
Re: WINDOZE is awful (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version (Donn Miller)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: OS Sound OFF. (B'ichela)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Avinash Meetoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 10:07:42 +0400
Hi,
Many people forget that installing Linux often means installing Linux
while preserving Windows (ie do a dual-boot system). And it's pretty
normal that doing that is more complicated that simply installing
Windows ONLY on a PC.
Those who say that Win installation is a breeze should try to install it
on a Linux PC and try to get a dual boot system...
Compare what is comparable !!!
Avinash
--
************************* The Mauritius Linux User Group **********
* [ M L U G ] http://pages.intnet.mu/chrisavi/mauritius-linux/ *
********************** Open to all Linux Users in Mauritius *******
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 06:22:16 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Avinash Meetoo wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Many people forget that installing Linux often means installing Linux
>while preserving Windows (ie do a dual-boot system). And it's pretty
>normal that doing that is more complicated that simply installing
>Windows ONLY on a PC.
>
>Those who say that Win installation is a breeze should try to install it
>on a Linux PC and try to get a dual boot system...
>
>Compare what is comparable !!!
>
>Avinash
>--
>************************* The Mauritius Linux User Group **********
>* [ M L U G ] http://pages.intnet.mu/chrisavi/mauritius-linux/ *
>********************** Open to all Linux Users in Mauritius *******
AMEN!
And the answer IS! Windows can't install in the second
partion nor the 3rd. It must have the first or it's
not going to be installed.
Charlie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:36:23 -0600
From: Adam Majer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: WINDOZE is awful
No no. All you have to do is make sure that linux is loaded from a
partition not from MBR on a drive. Windows will overwrite that by def.
(Windows is awful :( Then you need to make the partition with linux
bootable again and turn off the boong of the Windows partition.
Then if you want 95 and 2000 and linux and dos on the same system (what
I have :), win2k will again overwirte MBR of the A disk without asking
you.. And dos will not start at all unless it is on first partition of the
first disk.... You can't put lilo to MBR or otherwise you'll loose all of
the boot information for Windoze when you install lilo again.
I think lilo should be able to change the partiton type of partitions and
load the boot sector for different OSs. Is that configurable in any way? So
that the DOS disk will become a non-readable partition when running 2k?
(for example). Is there any way of loading MBR from a file instead of
/dev/hda
which kind of sucks since Windows is awful when it comes to multi-boot OS.
- Adam
PS. Linux is the light at the end of the tunnel and it is not the tunnel
that is on fire (that would be Windows! :)
Avinash Meetoo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Many people forget that installing Linux often means installing Linux
> while preserving Windows (ie do a dual-boot system). And it's pretty
> normal that doing that is more complicated that simply installing
> Windows ONLY on a PC.
>
> Those who say that Win installation is a breeze should try to install it
> on a Linux PC and try to get a dual boot system...
>
> Compare what is comparable !!!
>
> Avinash
> --
> ************************* The Mauritius Linux User Group **********
> * [ M L U G ] http://pages.intnet.mu/chrisavi/mauritius-linux/ *
> ********************** Open to all Linux Users in Mauritius *******
--
...... SPAMMER NOTICEE .......
ALL spamers shall will be tracked down
and spamed.
-- A. Majer's spam policy
Sec. 1 sub 5 para 19c
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS Sound OFF.
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 07:01:44 GMT
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Everybody who reads this, sound off with your OS please.
> The one your using or like the most.
>
> Then the others you use follow.
>
> Using Debian 2.3 Woody
>
> Others None.
>
> Thanks
>
> Charlie
WinNT4.0
for supporting and maintaining prior projects and some non-standard web
design.
Win95/98
for testing behavior of prior projects to ensure some consistancy beween
platforms.
Mandrake 7.1
For remote computing, standard web design, future embedded/dedicated
development and "kicks"
Thinking about giving either Debian or SuSE a try, though...Also plan to
play around with BSD to be familiar with it.
--
Tom Wilson
A Computer Programmer who wishes he'd chosen another vocation.
------------------------------
From: nf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Netscape review.
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 01:57:04 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> >>
> >> So is Internet Explorer.
> >
> >Please don't insult the Mac people.....I doubt they're thrilled with IE.
>
> You'd be wrong. MSIE 5 for the Mac is one very nice browser. In several
> ways better than MSIE 5.5 for PC, including standards compliance. Given
> that Netscape sucks on Macs even worse than on Windows or Linux, it (or
> iCab) should be the choice for most folks who've actually compared the
> things.
>
>
I'll agree. The IE version on the mac is light years ahead of it's PC
counterpart!! It has many features not available on the PC. Strange
coming from Microsoft!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 07:58:58 GMT
In article <rSUV5.1163$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Ed Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
>> No, they dropped the more powerful CPUs because NT could not be
>> rewritten to both stress those systems and not slow to a crawl on
>> the contemporaneous Intel CPUs.
>
>Um... please. Let's stick with facts. Demand for NT on anything other
>than x86 was light, at best.
>
Demand was light because few apps existed.
Few apps existed because Microsoft did not update development tools.
Without being able to consume enough resources to stress the
hardware entry to the upgrade treadmill could not be forced.
Microsoft held back the development tools while they tried to cripple
NT on RISC processors without also crippling the x86 version.
They could not achieve that with a single source tree, a separate
tree was required for each processor type, so they opted to stop
pretending that they would support NT on non x86 processors.
See how easy those link together to why developers were given only
obsolete tools ?
Another choice forestalled by the monopoly. I liked NT on MIPS. I
resent it being withdrawn.
Maybe it was fear of direct comparison with Unix running on the same
hardware which lead to their reticence ? Comparison of NT thrashing
under loads Unix happily handles might start a quest for Unix on x86
and the monopoly would collapse.
The world would not have needed to wait for Linux to return to
sanity.
--
"Whether you think their witnesses are credible or non-credible;
they've admitted monopoly power, they've admitted raising prices to hurt
consumers, they've admitted depriving consumers of choice...
-DAVID BOIES, US Department of Justice
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 07:58:58 GMT
In article <FrYV5.31492$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Chad C. Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>NOPE, That was a marketing desicion. Too bad because NT on an Alpha was
>quick.
>
It was not decided because of too little demand but to maintain the
monopoly on x86.
--
"Whether you think their witnesses are credible or non-credible;
they've admitted monopoly power, they've admitted raising prices to hurt
consumers, they've admitted depriving consumers of choice...
-DAVID BOIES, US Department of Justice
------------------------------
From: UnixGeek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Comparing Linux
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 07:49:19 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> UnixGeek wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) wrote:
> > > On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 01:09:17 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >Why is (almost) everybody out there comparing Linux to other
> > Operation
> > > >Systems ??
> > >
> > > I don't know. Maybe they're bitter little dweebs with small
penises.
> > > Seriously, most of the people who are obsessed with
> > making "comparisons"
> > > are like this. You also get a lot of people like this who program
in
> > certain
> > > programming languages.
> > >
> > > I think it's motivated primarily by bitter and envy that their
> > supposedly
> > > "better" system is less popular than something else.
> > >
> > > Personally, I use Linux, but couldn't give a rats a** if it
> > gets "more
> > > popular".
> > >
> >
> > One reason to care, would be availablity of software. If linux gets
> > more popular, more development would be directed that way. There are
> > many windows programs I miss, and from a business standpoint, it
doesnt
> > make much sense for them to port them to linux. Who cares if we are
> > accepted, If we cared, we would stick with windows, but its nice to
see
> > more and more software coming our way
>
> This trend will continue to accelerate.
>
> Now that Sun has a commercial release of StarOffice, the
> path is clear.
>
proof that there is god.
> > > --
> > > Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
> > > elflord at panix dot com
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues
against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
--
J.C. Morgan
coming soon: huge knowledgebase
http://home1.gte.net/res06ckv ( due up in december)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 08:16:53 GMT
On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 23:08:26 -0500, Ken Klavonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|Chad Myers wrote:
|>
|> "Ken Klavonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
|> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
|> > Conrad Rutherford wrote:
|<snip>
|> >
|> > Redhat != Linux. SuSE, Debian, Mandrake, and Caldera support Sparc
|> > (others?). For something slightly different, NetBSD and OpenBSD also
|> > support Sparc, and are likely to continue to do so for the forseeable
|> > future. Of course, if it's fairly recent hardware, Solaris is probably
|> > the way to go anyway.
|>
|> 1.) RedHat seems to be the only company/distro dedicated to making
|> Linux a server-type OS. Debian tries, but doesn't have the support
|> setup to be taken as serious as Red Hat in corporate worlds.
|>
|
|I think you meant to say that RedHat is the only distro that seems to
|have the attention of the potential corporate customers, due to their
|highly visible support offerings. As far as I'm concerned, that's the
|only reason that I'd ever run RedHat on anything approaching
|production-level machines. But, almost any Linux distro can be made to
|fit the role of a 'server-type OS' if the support question can be
|answered independently (via LinuxCare, for instance).
And the unofficial "Rawhide" release of RedHat will (AFAIK) still
be available for SPARC.
Linux Weekly News ( http://lwn.net/2000/1130/dists.php3 ) reported
it this way.
Rather than just speculate, we called Red Hat and asked.
Current policy is to continue to support SPARC in the Rawhide
distribution, making it freely available for those willing to
download and use this development snapshot. However, a
shrink-wrapped version of 7.1 for SPARC will not be released
unless there is "sufficient customer demand".
So options for SPARC users abound; use Red Hat's Rawhide
development, bang on Red Hat for a stable SPARC release, or,
as suggested on sparc-list, move to another distribution with
a more solid commitment to the platform. Possibilities in the
Linux arena include Debian, Linux-Mandrake, and SuSE.
It is understandable that Red Hat does not want to pay the
cost of producing shrink-wrapped boxes that won't sell. On
the other hand, there is another reason to support the SPARC
architecture. To gain or hold onto the role of leader in the
Linux business, it is necessary to be perceived as a "one
place shop", e.g., people don't want to run Red Hat on
Intel, Linux-Mandrake on SPARC and SuSE on the Alpha. Even
as similar as Linux distributions are, there are minor
quirks between them that mean sys admins will prefer to
use only one primary Linux distribution. Red Hat, in
choosing to make their support for the SPARC platform weak,
has opened up a chink in their armor, in their market lead,
that other distributors will be happy to exploit.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:25:52 +0000
Les Mikesell wrote:
> There is a difference between support and black magic. No one but
> you knows where you put those jumpers, and there is a perfectly
> reasonable way to tell Linux about it that doesn't involve usenet.
What jumpers? I never changed no jumpers.
> As I recall, the problem involved your card settings, not anything
> to do with the drivers.
Incorrect. I never changed any of my card settings. I edited isapnp.conf,
because the automatic configuration couldn't seem to do it itself, and get
it right.
For both the SB16 and AHA154x I made no changes to their BIOS or jumper
settings. I edited configuration files, precisely what I thought Linux
Mandrake was supposed to do for me.
> Idiot users? All OS's have those. Businesses spend a fortune
> for whole teams of people to keep some of them working at all.
> Linux doesn't have that expensive support system - but it doesn't
> need it that badly either.
Any complex system will need support staff. Why do you think there are UNIX
system administrators?
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:28:22 +0000
Avinash Meetoo wrote:
> Many people forget that installing Linux often means installing Linux
> while preserving Windows (ie do a dual-boot system). And it's pretty
> normal that doing that is more complicated that simply installing
> Windows ONLY on a PC.
Not that much more complicated.
> Those who say that Win installation is a breeze should try to install it
> on a Linux PC and try to get a dual boot system...
What do you think I am running on now? On one disk is Windows, on the other
is Linux. Not that hard at all.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2, dual booting with Windows 98 SE.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:31:04 +0000
Charlie Ebert wrote:
> AMEN!
>
> And the answer IS! Windows can't install in the second
> partion nor the 3rd. It must have the first or it's
> not going to be installed.
That's a restriction of fdisk - it won't let you use partitions two, three
or four. I've installed Windows 95, 98 SE, ME and 2000 to those alternate
partitions without any problems - I used System Commander to get round
fdisk.
I write WDM drivers - these work on 98 SE, ME and 2000, so I need all three
OS's. So I install a multi boot system. It works just fine.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2 on a dual boot system with Windows
98 SE.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WINDOZE is awful
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:33:21 +0000
Adam Majer wrote:
> Then if you want 95 and 2000 and linux and dos on the same system (what
> I have :), win2k will again overwirte MBR of the A disk without asking
> you.. And dos will not start at all unless it is on first partition of the
> first disk.... You can't put lilo to MBR or otherwise you'll loose all of
> the boot information for Windoze when you install lilo again.
Funny, I have LILO in the MBR. It boots both Windows 98 SE and Linux just
fine. What are you doing wrong?
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2 on a dual boot system with Windows
98 SE.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 03:34:49 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red Hat drops Sparc support with new Linux version
Chad Myers wrote:
> Um... please. Let's stick with facts. Demand for NT on anything other
> than x86 was light, at best.
So much for NT being a "UNIX killer". Interestingly, I think one reason
NT support was dropped on other platforms was the resurgence of unix. I
think it was back in 1993 or so, or maybe before, that NT was supposed
to be this "great" 32-bit cross-platform OS that was going to end unix'
reign. Of course, that probably wouldn't have been such a hard task,
given that unix had been dying from 1989-1993. In 1993 or thereabouts,
Linux came along, as did 386BSD, which split up into NetBSD and
FreeBSD. With the birth of the free unixen and unix clones, I suppose
unix demand probably took an upswing from 1994 forward.
When it became apparent that NT could not cut into the unix market
appreciably, that ended MS' interest in supporting non-i386 platforms.
Well, can you blame them? They have enough of their work cut out for
them as it is. With BSD and Linux emerging as a popular server OS on
Intel, it would suck MS dry had they continued to support other
platforms. It would take massive effort on their part just to convince
people that NT 5.0 aka Win 2000 is a "heavy duty" OS able to compete
with Linux and BSD as well as Solaris on the Intel platform. And Linux,
BSD, and Solaris are indeed "heavy-duty", commercial quality OSes.
Plus, they cost much less! Imagine that.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:36:46 +0000
Charlie Ebert wrote:
> You don't know? Didn't you read?
Read where Charlie? I can't see anything in your post that tells me the
answer to my questions.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:38:22 +0000
Charlie Ebert wrote:
> We have good support with MF and we pay a high
> fee. They don't know what to say.
Who is MF?
If you pay such a high fee, then sue 'em! If they don't help you fix the
problem what are you paying them for?
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela)
Subject: Re: OS Sound OFF.
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:45:43 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 05:27:58 GMT, Charlie Ebert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Everybody who reads this, sound off with your OS please.
>The one your using or like the most.
Slackware Linux ver 3.9 (still using old libc5 (thank God).
Linux 2.0.38 kernel on two 486 machines.
Others: CPM 80/86 on DEC rainbow 100 (does your
requiement NEED to be on one chassis? if not I offer that above.
--
B'ichela
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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