Linux-Advocacy Digest #657, Volume #30 Tue, 5 Dec 00 08:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Curtis)
Re: Linux is awful ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Linux growth rate explosion! (Tim Tyler)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Linux is awful ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux is awful ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux is awful ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux growth rate explosion! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: What does KDE do after all (SwifT -)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Chris Ahlstrom)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Curtis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 06:00:54 -0500
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
| Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 3 Dec 2000 00:09:31
| [...]
| >*Developing* software is what cost money.
| >Which you don't get in return if you GPL it.
|
| But you don't get it in return if you copyright it and wrap it in a
| trade secret, either.
Oh, but it's this return that drives the software industry as it largely
is today.
| Whatever it is you do make money on has to cover
| the cost of developing, either way. Your argument is specious.
|
| [...]
| >> >The problem is that you can usually do *without* buying the support.
| >>
| >> How is that a problem?
| >
| >The companies that invested money in making dist/programs/tools that you use
| >get no money in return.
|
| Same with commercial software; you don't make the money you invested
| back, unless you sell something to make a return on the investment. You
| seem to be treating development of a product as if it were manufacture
| of a commodity. Microsoft, of course, encourages such mistaken
| thinking, very much.
If the developer and producer wish simple monetary compensation for
their efforts then it *is* like a commodity. This *is* the situation in
which a lot of software is produced.
I do, however take your point that this doesn't always have to be and
certainly isn't always the case.
| And while obviously this would be a more lucrative arrangement for
| software producers, your *assumption* that this is necessary or else
| software cannot be produced is, as I've mentioned, a specious argument.
The reality is that *if* the ISV isn't happy, there'll be no software
produced by them. The producer has to find it profitable. If one
production paradigm is more profitable, the producer will usually choose
the more profitable method .... unless of course, the motivator is not
just merely monetary profit. The profit may be gained from other
developers input in the further development of the software. Their may
be no desire for a profit at all and just social rewards.
| Here's another perspective that might help clear the log-jam in your
| head. The GPL is an *anti-competitive* licensing mechanism. As you've
| been describing, GPLing code is *not* conducive to a free market in
| software code. It is, however, *VERY* supportive of a free market in
| software *products*. Most software publishers are not very keen on
| having to engage in the kind of super-heated competition which such a
| market presents. Too friggen' bad for them, I say. Most of them are
| just profiteers, to begin with.
What's wrong with trying to make a living? What's wrong with requesting
remuneration for your efforts in return for the customers increased
productivity using your software?
Take an interesting parallel. Industrial equipment can be extremely
expensive. This extreme expense cannot only be accounted for through
production costs. A huge chunk of that charge is based on the fact that
the equipment manufacturer knows that you'll be using the equipment he
sells to you to make money. His equipment is therefore of a lot more
value to you than the simple value of the manufacturing and assembling
of its parts. Equipment that is a lot simpler than a car in concept and
technology is far more expensive.
It's the same for software. There's nothing wrong with wanting returns
on your efforts and returns on the profits people make off your efforts.
| As I've described several times (and if Professor Lessig might actually
| have the opportunity to read this and the time to respond, I would
| humbly ask for his comments, public or private, on the matter) it is not
| possible to compete with an anti-competitive company (monopolist). You
| have to "_out-anti-compete_" them.
Leave the monopoly argument for a moment. We're just speaking about
software development and production in a commercial setting as opposed
to a OSS setting.
| So the direct result, more or less,
| of treating software as copyright-wrapped-in-a-trade-secret-license, is
| that the GPL has been created. And adopted, more and more, by the very
| programmers that you insist will be put out of work by it.
The fact that programmers are adopting this model, doesn't by any means
mean that all are or ever will be attracted to it. This model will work
for a segment .... no doubt about that.
| The free market does always win in the end. The only real question is
| whether it gets tougher for the producers, or the consumers, during the
| transition. Since GPL represents "free software",
They don't have to pay .... lovely. I'd sure love not having to pay for
anything. :=)
| and the alternate
| approach represents "rented permission to use",
One has to pay, as they do for most other things in life that doesn't
appear out of thin air or through natural phenomena.
| I think its obvious
| which causes more pain to the consumers, and it is no surprise that you
| are arguing this point from the perspective of the producers (or, as you
| inaccurately refer to them, the programmers.)
Well, one has to have a balanced outlook.
Both paradigms fall under two full swings of the pendulum.
| >> >Now, assuming that I make a good software, no matter what size it is, I
| >> >would hope that people can learn to use it without *requiring* my help.
| >> >Frankly, if I sell support and give the software away, I find myself in a
| >> >conflict of interests. On the one hand, one of my definations of good
| >> >software is that it's easy to use or learn.
| >>
| >> You have confused "support" with "newbie help", I'm afraid. That's not
| >> what IT professionals mean when they say "support".
| >
| >Not quite.
| >If you've an advance question, you can post it in number of places, and
| >you'll get an answer for that.
| >I don't think that there are that many questions that you can get an answer
| >to on the web.
|
| You misinterpreted my contention. I said that "support" means technical
| support (your "advanced question"), not newbie help. As you've pointed
| out, this is a valuable service, quite capable of supporting a profit
| margin, since there aren't that many questions that you can get an
| answer to on the web.
Here, it depends on the type of software.
--
Curtis
| ,__o
!___ _-\_<, An egotist thinks he's in the groove
<(*)>--(*)/'(*)______________________ when he's in a rut.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 11:46:37 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:HL3X5.1756$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9M0X5.624$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Or how about turning on ultra DMA? Windows will often figure out if
the
> > > drive supports it and enable it. If it doesn't, it's a matter of
right
> > > clicking the drive in device manager and changing a dropdown box.
With
> > > Linux, it's figuring out a 20 parameter long hdparm string and
figuring
> > out
> > > where in the startup scripts to put it.
> >
> > A simple switch added to lilo.conf does it.
>
> Perhaps on some distros, but no longer on Mandrake 7.2, and since Mandrake
> is so heavily RH based, I would guess Red Hat as well.
I'm downloading Mandrake 7.2 right now. When I get around to burning and
installing, I'll take a look. I'd be surprised if that's changed since its'
a kernel switch.
>
> Which is really the point. You can't even always rely on experience you
may
> have learned from another distribution to get you up to speed on a new
one.
> You end up doing trial and error for a few days until you get things
working
> right.
I can see that as being an annoyance. I've only used Mandrake up till now
and have no point of reference. I'll be trying either Debian or SuSE soon.
>
> > > What about installing TrueType Fonts? Dozens of steps in Linux, while
> > it's
> > > just a matter of dragging them to your font folder in Windows.
> >
> > Mandrake has an X utility that imports them quite well. Just select and
> > click. The vast majority of the fonts I use under Linux are Windows
> > TrueType.
>
> Hmm.. I haven't found this utility yet. It's certainly not available from
> any menus or in the DrakConf.
DrakFont, in Mandrake 7.1, has a push button labeled Get Windows Fonts. It
may be that you need to have a Windows drive mounted in order for this
option to appear. I don't know since all my installations have been dual
booting ones.
>
> > > How about setting your monitor refresh rate?
> >
> > Editing one line in XF86Config, in my case. Didn't even need a man file.
> It
> > was pretty self explainitory.
>
> As opposed to click a drop down box in a GUI? You honestly think messing
> with config files is simple for someone that doesn't know how to set their
> VCR?
My CLI days far outnumber my GUI ones so I really don't think twice about
it. Its' all in your point of reference I guess.
The VCR thing reminds me of a humorous fact: My mother can zip around SCO
Xenix like a pro yet can't set the clock on her VCR..<g>
>
> > > That's just off the top of my head, I can list dozens of tasks that
are
> > much
> > > much harder under Linux than Win 2000. Which tasks are easier under
> > Linux?
> >
> > If easy is all you're after, stick with Windows then.
>
> Why do you insist on changing the subject. The subject was Aaron claiming
> that Linux is only more difficult on things that you can't do in Windows.
> That's patently not true.
That statement wasn't so much changing a subject as it was voicing an
opinion.
As for Aaron's claim, I tend to disagree too since most casual users and all
newbies learned the GUI way of doing things.
--
Tom Wilson
A Computer Programmer who wishes he'd chosen another vocation.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 11:47:23 GMT
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> No, actually, it's part of the C2 security requirements. You need a way to
> initiate a login which cannot be masked by a user mode program. On a
> typical unix or Linux machine, you need only run a 10 line program that
> clears the screen and prints login: to steal peoples passwords. That's not
> possible under NT if you don't have administrator privs.
Bullshit.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 11:50:51 GMT
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> Actually, liberals are more socialist than communist. But, let's no split
> hairs, eh?
I doubt that anyone can cite a single definition of "liberal" that
would match the various definitions that people have in their heads.
The definitions seem to range from "willing to give a little" all
the way to "spawn of Satan/Stalin/Hitler".
The word has become a meaningless hot button.
Anyway, it does hook a little into why RedHat chose the name <grin>
Chris
------------------------------
From: Tim Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux growth rate explosion!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:42:41 GMT
In comp.lang.java.advocacy Andrew Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Andrew Suprun wrote:
:> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Byrns) wrote in
:> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
:>
:> >> Doh. How do you get a trojan onto a unix machine?
:> >
:> >Ask the folks that used them for the widespread DDoS attacks on eBay et.
:> >al. earlier this year.
: What exactly do web DoS attacks have to do with trojans anyway?
: You don't need to sneak any code onto the servers, you just hammer them
: with more requests than they can handle until they fall over. With a DDoS
: attack, you do it from multiple locations at once -- which sort of
: precludes trojans by definition.
Trojans are used to break into the multiple servers. Trojans and other
things, that is.
--
__________ http://alife.co.uk/ http://mandala.co.uk/
|im |yler [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hex.org.uk/ http://atoms.org.uk/
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 12:09:17 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> Can you so blindly dismiss the truth?
I am not blind, nor am I dismissing, nor is it truth.
> Can you not see what is going on, or what has gone on? Unfortunately, you
> are one of the ignorant Americans I was referring to. You seem fit to
> dismiss the obvious because it's not something you want to be confronted
> with.
You're right about that. I'm more worried about goose-stepping skinheads,
trigger-happy survivalists, pointy-headed kluxxers, and CIA bosses and
company bosses who want to implant GPS receivers in people's bodies
than I am about daemonic Democrats.
> Please note I'm not attacking you personally, or calling you stupid
> or anything like that. I'm just saying that there are many people out there
> too busy to be concerned with how their government is being systematically
> overturned right under their noses.
It's the will of the people, man. We elected them. It's called
democracy.
> It wasn't three days after Hillary was elected and she wanted to change
> the Constitution. There is a pattern here...
Humans often find patterns in random data.
I have a friend at work who is a very nice guy, well-meaning, works hard,
helps people, and is very "liberal", in the sense of "giving freely".
Yet he has an obsession with "democrats" and "liberals", and, when he
comes in ranting about the latest Democratic "atrocities", I know he's
been listening to Rush's rants. His is exhibiting what I call
"Rush Rage".
I have learned to avoid certain topics, or to deflect the conversation
to more conventional lines. Otherwise, I'd be spending all day arguing,
settling nothing, irritating all surrounding cubicle-mates, and not
getting our projects done.
It is simpler to avoid a paranoid fantasy realm, in the same way I
avoid Windozzzzzzzz fanatics, and the same way some people avoid Linux,
Mac, BeOS, and other fanatics.
Chris
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 12:19:45 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I don't know, it seems like if you want the most power for the best
> cost, you'd use a similar setup.
If you want most power for low cost, and don't care about reliability
and management complexity, sure.
IME, people who consider spending $10M for a database server would not
be willing to partition their data up on tens of non-redundant nodes,
but I'm not going to protest if you can cite a counter example.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 12:21:15 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > > Let us not also forget about the 60,000 ballots in Oregon, 40,000+ in New
> > > Mexico, 100,000+ in Iowa and 85,000+ in Wisconsin. Not to mention the
> > > several hundred cited, documented, proven incidents of Democratic fraud
> > > in Milwaukee alone that cost Bush thousands of votes and would've enabled
> > > him to win the state.
> >
> > You've been listening to Rush, ain't ya?
>
> What does that have to do with anything? These are facts, please check your
> information sources. There were several reports of these things on the
> major five news networks.
So you trust the liberal media after all.
> > > Shall we talk about the 5,000 felons in Florida who voted for Gore?
> >
> > Jumpin' off the deep end, here!
>
> This is proven. Shall I find you the links? Fox News and CNN both
> reported on this over the weekend.
I was replying to what I thought was your implication that Gore
arranged for these felons to vote for him. But I thought people
of conservative bent never trust CNN.
> There have been documented accounts of Democratic campaign workers
> going into burrows and threatening aliens with deportation if they
> didn't ride along from precinct to precinct and vote over and over
> again for Clinton. It's out of the standard Democrat playbook.
Can I get a copy of that playbook?
Chris
--
Are you sure you want to read this message?
Click Okay to continue, and Cancel to okay
this dialog.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:08:19 +0200
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 06:31:57 +0200,
> Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:15:03 +0200,
> >> Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >"I R A Darth Aggie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:45:33 +0200,
> >> >> Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, in
> >> >> <90ftn4$qoko$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> +
> >> >> + "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >> + news:sqDW5.29923$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> + >
> >> >> + > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >> + > news:90ebn3$smj4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> + > >
> >> >> + > >
> >> >> + > > > Just read the guides first.
> >> >> + > >
> >> >> + > > I know that it is in the docs, the reason I've problems with
it
> >is
> >> >that
> >> >> + > > Redhat neglected to put a simple warning box through the
> >> >installation.
> >> >> + > > You may disagree, but on every other possibly distructive
action,
> >> >you
> >> >> + get
> >> >> + > a
> >> >> + > > warning saying this may be dangerous. Why not on one of the
most
> >> >> + dangerous
> >> >> + > > thing that you can do to your computer?
> >> >> + >
> >> >> + > Are you sure about that? I can't remember exactly which steps I
> >used
> >> >> + > on which distribution, but I am sure that I went through a
> >workstation
> >> >> + > and server install to see what you get and before it changed the
> >> >> + partitions
> >> >> + > it issued a warning about losing all contents on the hard disks.
> >> >That
> >> >> + > could have been Mandrake, or perhaps you used some unusual modes
> >> >> + > expert/text, etc. that exposed a bug.
> >> >> +
> >> >> + Yes, I'm sure of it.
> >> >> + A Server Installation in RedHat will wipe out every last bit of
data
> >> >you've
> >> >> + on your system and will take it, without a *single warning*.
> >> >>
> >> >> Perhaps the warning came before you expected it. I can't speak to
> >> >> RedHat, but I know Debian puts up a warning of "you should back up
> >> >> your data first, installing this software could wipe out everything
> >> >> you've" very, very early on.
> >> >
> >> >No warning whatsoever during the installation of redhat server.
> >> >Not early on or during the parts where you choose
> >server/workstation/custom.
> >> >None at all.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I think you will find that even RedHat has printed in their
> >> install manual this information. But you must be able to read.
> >
> >
> >So must you, "No warning whatsoever *during the installation* of redhat
> >server"
> >
>
>
> If you read the manual you will see how to avoid this.
>
> It would just appear you have to.
I'm not coplaining about the lack of this information in the manual. In
fact, I qouted from the manual some time ago, exactly about this part.
I'm complaining that the *installation* doesn't warn you before it erase all
the contents of your HDs.
It has nothing to do with this appearing in the manual or not.
It has everything to do with taking the five second coding to ask the user
whatever they are aware this will erase all the contents of their HDs.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:13:30 +0200
"Sourav Laskar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:90i1h0$qt4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hey why nobody's talking about partition management.
> MS way of maintaining drive letters and the devils godown "REGISTRY" has
> cost me a reinstall of my workplace system yesterday. Has anybody tried
> partition management in window @#$@#%@#!?>?$%@$%$%
Control Panel > Administrator Tools > Computer Management > Storage > Disk
Management.
What do you want to do?
Remove a HD? Go there and take it out.
Change a HD's letter? Go there and do it.
Mount a HD's as a directory in another HD? (both must be NTFS) Go there and
do it.
Change partitions in HD? Go there and do it. (It's not partition magic,
though, you can't resize)
Remove a HD and insert another one without rebooting? You do it from there.
> As for unix system of a single root -- I have swapped components, drives,
> partitions blah, blah and what not -- I don't even need to touch one
single
> configuration file (except maybe for /etc/fstab), because I can mount the
> new partition at exactly the same place as the old partition was.
See above.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:16:10 +0200
"Fabien Derr�al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:90i6i6$j1m$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Windows help page are THE maze if there ever was one.
>
> I spent enough time on it when I was young to know that when you have a
> question there is one place you should never go to find an answer, and
this
> place is the help menu.
>
> when you go looking for how to the most common things, the only answers
you
> can find are on how to do fancy stuff you will never use.
> I think that's because they want to sell their M$ press books (which are
> well done anyway. for $40, they can :).)
> you can also find very good books about linux
MSPress books are a must if you plan to do high level stuff with your
computer.
The also translate them, so it's a plus.
Linux/Unix books too, there is nothing that can teach you faster than a book
and a ready computer.
Could you please give me an example of how hard Windows' help files are?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux growth rate explosion!
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:20:28 +0200
"Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:_73X5.116305$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:90hcqc$fl8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > : "Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > : news:909ebd$nc2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > :> No. The solution is to make it so that normal user ID's can't
> > :> futz with the system, thus killing two birds with one stone by
> > :> also solving the problem of local system security.
> >
> > : Done on the non-9x line.
> >
> > Not really. How does one temporarily "su" to Administrator just
> > to run one GUI app, and then get out, without logging all the way
> > out and back in? That sort of thing is needed or else people who
> > can will tend to run as Admin all the time so they can get things
> > done without having to log out and in all the time.
>
> On Win2K:
> Create a shortcut to the app.
> Right-mouse on the shortcut. Select "Properties"
> Select "Run as different user"
>
> It will then ask you to log in as another user when you run that command.
>
> There's also an equivalent to SU for the command line, but I can't
remember
> what that is right now.
runas
If you want real SU.
runas /user:domain\UserNameWithAdminRights cmd.exe
Enter password, and you are done.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 12:27:58 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Chad Myers wrote:
> > >
> > > As well they should with Daley's Chicago and all the rumors (facts rather)
> > > of corruption, voter fraud, voter intimidation, coaching, etc that cost
> > > Nixon the election.
> >
> > Where's your source on this? Where is your proof?
>
> Daley's iron grip of Chicago is a well known fact. If you do even some
> passive research, you will find numerous accountings of organized voter fraud
> in Chicago. Everything ranging from dead people voting, to felons, to bribing
> homeless and poor voters with cigarettes, drugs, etc.
Ha ha, I was merely quoting the late Richard J. Daley, who was fond of
saying "Where is your proof?" whenever challenged by allegations.
If you remember, I recommended you read "Boss" by Mike Royko. Of course,
you'll chalk it up to the daemonic Democrats, but it's really an issue
of personal power.
I grew up reading about Chicago politics (and the myriad fuckups of those
stumblebum Cubs) in the Chicago rags that Pops would bring out to our
home in the countryside. (Will County, not Cook County).
> Last I heard, the national average of voter error was somewhere between
> 1 and 2% which means about 1-2 million voters in err. If you look in the
> counties in question in Florida, they averaged 1-2% (Miami-Dade had something
> like 1.4% IIRC). Ironically, a Republican county, Duval, was something like
> 5%, yet Gore's "Count All Votes" crusade doesn't seem to be concerned about
> them.
Why harvest votes in a barren county? <grin>
Chris
P.S. You've taken my ribbing pretty well, Chad!
------------------------------
From: SwifT - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What does KDE do after all
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:18:38 +0100
On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> And furthermore, for much real programming, the simple IPC model
> offered by pipes is better than the more sophisticated ones that are
> made available through the likes of sockets and CORBA. There is a
> *lot* more that can go wrong with bi-directional communication, and
> it is much harder to optimize...
Better in the way of faster is not better in the way of evolution. The
sophisticated ways (which sais it all: sophisticated) are more
future-proof and expendable. Pipes have serious limitations.
--
SwifT
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 12:32:06 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> > "Liberal" now is as bad as "Commie" used to be! What a world!
>
> When you get down to it, what's the difference between them, other
> than the spelling?
You might want to talk to some older people who were active and
vigorous during the Cold War. Even more to the point, check out
the history of the Russian Revolution. I don't think you'll find
"liberals" killing off a few million of their fellow countrymen.
And I think "liberals" back then kept a very low profile, in order
to avoid losing their heads.
Chris
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 12:36:36 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> Bah!
> Even assuming that they split MS, it wouldn't change a single thing.
> Windows will still be the most widely used OS around.
> Windows will still have most application developed to it.
> Nothing much will change, except that Office & IE will be done by a sperate
> company.
And the Office/IE company won't have access to undocumented APIs.
Say, does anyone hate those shitty fading menus and their crappy
"continuation arrow" (or whatever they call it)? Drives me nuts
to see just a few options, and have to move down and click to
see the rest. Furthermore, some of the options are embossed inward,
for no reason that I can see. Pretty ugly enhancement to the
Windozzzzzzzzz interface, if you ask me.
(And yes, I know, you didn't ask me <grin>).
Chris
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