Linux-Advocacy Digest #743, Volume #30 Fri, 8 Dec 00 13:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Re: Just in case anybody is wondering about reliability (mlw)
Re: Segmentation fault (core dumped) (mlw)
Re: Windows review ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: need to open 100 windows (Jake Taense)
Re: windoze is awful ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
12 bugs of the season! (sfcybear)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:14:02 -0000
On Fri, 08 Dec 2000 16:41:06 GMT, Tom Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:34:08 GMT, Tom Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> On Fri, 08 Dec 2000 14:52:57 GMT, Tom Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> >> On Fri, 08 Dec 2000 14:13:35 GMT, Tom Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >> >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> >> >> Tom Wilson wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > "B. P. Uecker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> >> >> > > Tom Wilson wrote in
><msGX5.2276$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> >> >> [deletia]
>> >> >> >> > >The problem with
>> >> >> >> > > Linux (aside from the fact that open source development is a
>> >black
>> >> >> >> > > hole) is that it tries to be everything to everyone and
>masters
>> >> >> >> > > nothing. It is basically acceptable as a server platform but
>> >> >beyond
>> >> >> >> > > its circle of devotees (and dolts who who can do no better
>than
>> >> >parrot
>> >> >> >> > > slashdot) it has no mindshare. Linux on the desktop will
>never
>> >> >happen
>> >> >> >> > > and on the server end it is mainly a toy for easily
>distracted
>> >> >geeks
>> >> >> >> > > who will eventually find another bandwagon to hop on. I give
>it
>> >> >> >> > > another couple of years before it joins OS/2 in the trash
>heap.
>> >> >And
>> >> >> >> > > I'm a generous man.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Linux will never be a desktop OS - I agree. Those who think
>this
>> >are
>> >> >a
>> >> >> >bit
>> >> >> >> > deluded.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Why not.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The entire auto industry (WORLDWIDE) uses Solaris/HP/AIX/IRIX as
>a
>> >> >> >> desktop OS. VERY successfully...and with minimal support staff
>> >> >compared
>> >> >> >> to LoseDOS. The ENTIRE Unix desktop support team for GM is 20
>> >people
>> >> >> >> (not counting on-site hardware techs)....for 5,000-10,000 unix
>> >seats.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> In comparison, the same number of Windows seats takes a couple
>> >HUNDRED
>> >> >> >> windows ADMINS.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I'm not talking the business side of things. I'm talking for home
>> >users.
>> >> >> >Linux is still very weak in the game department (Performance as
>well
>> >as
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So? That's merely a matter of marketshare and has very little
>> >> >> to do with the actual attributes of operating systems. Also,
>> >> >> WinDOS was at one time in the same place BeOS is now nevermind
>> >> >> Linux.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >availability). Hardware support has a long way to go yet. This of
>> >course
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Lesse... anandtech linux benchmarks for 3D acceleration
>> >> >> with GeForce2, G400, Voodoo5, Ragee 128 and Intel 815.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That's not a bad showing actually. While nothing short of the
>> >> >> market leader (NT5 included) will 'run everything', that goal
>> >> >> really isn't necessary.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You're grossly overstating the scope of the problem.
>> >> >
>> >> >Perhaps so... I just call 'em as I see 'em. Time will tell of course
>and
>> >I
>> >>
>> >> You don't see shit.
>> >
>> >I've seen a lot, kid... And I don't see Linux taking Windoze's place on
>the
>>
>> You still don't see shit. All you are doing is spewing a lot of
>> hot air. Weak attempts at pretense won't really change that.
>
>What I'm spewing are the very things people have against it. You're not only
>going up against MS, you're going up against a lot of misconceptions and
>propoganda.
Actually, the nature and level of propaganda directed at Linux
is one of the things that has been radically changing over the
last few months. While some FUD still remains, information
outlets are considerably more diverse than they were in the
age of the original 68K AltOS machines.
Hewson and Pournelle aren't the only one's screaming these days.
>
>>
>> >home desktop anytime soon. Inferior as it is, it isn't going to go away.
>>
>> It doesn't have to. Linux can still significantly eat into it's
>> marketshare, and alternative applications can make headway against
>> the those applications that are currently entrenched.
>
>Possible, yes. The GPL still scares the hell out of a lot of developers. Up
Despite this, really serious money players are all over
Linux. The FUD can only go so far when people are making
money all around with Free Software.
>until now, proprietary has been the name of the game. Hell, I can remember
>when most software products were leased rather than purchased. A company I
>worked for paid $10,000 a year for a VMS cost accounting and estimating
Now Microsoft is in a similar position.
[deletia]
Their revenue model on the desktop is in considerable danger of
breaking down and their revenue on servers is being thwarted by
Linux/Sun. Their air supply is slowly dwindling while Linux is
improving on all fronts, is gratis and is getting favorable
press.
Microsoft only manages to hang onto dominance because they have
managed to get leverage over their customers. Their mindshare
in general and with computer users is eroding. They continue to
alienate anyone they come in contact in the industry. Microsoft
is currently in as bad a position or a worse one when it comes
to negative propaganda.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just in case anybody is wondering about reliability
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 12:18:17 -0500
SwifT - wrote:
>
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, mlw wrote:
>
> > I don't know about anyone else, I heard that about the initial release
> > of Win2K, and we have heard the same about every release and SP of
> > NT/2K. This game of "The next service pack will be solid" got really old
> > back in NT 4.0 SP1. Does anyone seriously believe that MS has any
> > credibility when it comes to reliability?
>
> Since SP4, NT4 is stable enough. I bet it will be the same for 2K. It's
> just that 2K isn't ready yet for the big test (unless you pump several
> million $'s in it - like Microsoft does).
>
NT 4.0 has NEVER been proven stable enough for a server, even though
Microsoft has been saying "This time for sure!!" The IT community is
getting to the point where it is saying "Again?!?! but that trick never
works!"
Every time there is a debate about NT stability, an MS-Pinhead always
says, "yea, that was [n] service packs ago, NT is much better now."
The problem, which no MS zealot cares to address, is that NT is a VERY
good kernel. I know this, I think we all know this. The instability
comes from Microsoft's failure to understand how to create good
software.
Microsoft's philosophy comes from the "shoot from the hip" DOS/Windows
world where you can and should do what ever you can to add a feature the
most expedient way. They seem never to step back and think about the
"best" way to approach a problem. As such, every API they make has to be
modified and patched every release. Nothing they do has longevity,
therefore there are few, if anything other than the most basic API sets
that have been working, unchanged, for a number of years.
Perhaps this is a very good business model for consumer software, but it
is the kiss of death for a server platform. It is precisely this
approach that is going to kill NT. Not the great work that the NT kernel
represents, but the constant movement to, and creation of, features in
NT kernel space without serious regard to stability.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Segmentation fault (core dumped)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 12:21:30 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > news wrote:
> >>
> >> While working on a project ( which I thought to be quite small ) I have
> >> received this message:
> >> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
> >> Everything compiled okay. This happened as a result of a.out
> >> I was wondering if someone could point out to me what I should be looking
> >> for that might cause such a message.
> >> Thanks in advance.
> >>
> >> Joarder
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > If you compiled the program as:
>
> > gcc program.c[pp]
> > do this:
> > gcc -g program.c[pp]
>
> or even gcc -ggdb program.c
>
> > The -g option includes debug info.
>
> > Then run the program as:
>
> > gcc a.out
>
> > type 'r' and see where it takes you.
>
> I guess you meant:
>
> gdb a.out
Oops typo, I even do that on the command line sometimes. ;-(
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Windows review
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:32:35 GMT
[snips]
"JM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2000 09:14:47 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> Actually it's easier making a directory with a CLI, even in Windows.
> For instance, "mkdir \My Documents\misc\I_am_a_directory" is easier
> than:
>
> 1) Click on C:\,
> 2) Click on plus next to My Documents
You forgot: Start Windows Explorer. Which defaults to starting in My
Documents.
> 3) Click on plus next to misc.
Or on misc itself.
> 4) Right click in right pane
> 5) Wait for menu.
> 6) Move to "New".
> 7) Wait for next menu.
> 8) Move mouse all the way up to "Folder".
Which is the entry right next to "new", at least here on my ME box.
> 9) Click
> 10) Type in "I_am__directory".
Okay, so let's see. I want to create a folder called Files from Boston, in
the existing folder C:\My Documents\Data Files
start explorer
click "+Data Files"
click "misc"
right-click in pane
select New, Folder
enter name
as opposed to:
mkdir C:\My Documents\I_am_a_directory
So, I've got 5 mouseclicks and 17 keystrokes (I_am_a_directory[enter]).
Compare that to your method which takes 42 keystrokes and doesn't even work
the way you wrote it. ("Too many parameters").
So, you're advocating 42 keystrokes for a non-functioning approach over 17
keystrokes and 5 clicks, which actually end up doing the job, as somehow
superior, is that right?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jake Taense)
Subject: Re: need to open 100 windows
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:50:29 GMT
In article <jv8Y5.2028$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Dan"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi, trying to open 90-100 internet explorer windows and still be able to
>copy and paste to them off notepad. I am using NT4, dell pIII 500 with 384
>megs of sdram with eccI even upgraded to a pIII 850 with 512 megs of sdram
>with ecc and didn't notice much difference if any.
>I can get about 50 windows open (internet explorer) and can still copy and
>paste from notepad in to them.After that, I can open a couple more windows,
>but can't copy off notepad let alone paste. Any idea's would be appreciated.
>Do you think if I used unix os it would help alot?
>Thanks.
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Actually, let me retranslate:
"Hi, I'd like to ask an inane question on a linux newsgroup regarding a
microsoft windows product, and listen while people run down Microsoft and pat
me on the back for considering a unix solution.
I don't really have this problem - I'm just looking for affirmation since I
get none in real life."
Grow up. If you really had a need for this, you'd ask a Microsoft support
group.
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: windoze is awful
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:40:39 GMT
[snips]
"Toby Haynes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > [snips]
> >
> > "Kenny Pearce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> software is irrelevant. As was previously mentioned, user side software
> >> CANNOT cause linux to crash...
> >
> > So is configuring your soundcard considered "user side"?
> Configuring a sound card is almost certainly involving configuring a
kernel
> module, so this is one of the things likely to crash a system if you get
it
> wrong.
I never got a _chance_ to get it wrong. The second step, before it even
allows you to _see_ the settings, never mind change them, locks the machine
dead.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 12 bugs of the season!
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:49:39 GMT
> The 12 Bugs Of Christmas
>
> A Software Developers' Version
>
> 1. For the first bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 2. For the second bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 3. For the third bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 4. For the fourth bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Run with the debugger
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 5. For the fifth bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Ask for a dump
> Run with the debugger
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 6. For the sixth bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Reinstall the software
> Ask for a dump
> Run with the debugger
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 7. For the seventh bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Say they need an upgrade
> Reinstall the software
> Ask for a dump
> Run with the debugger
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 8. For the eighth bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Find a way around it
> Say they need an upgrade
> Reinstall the software
> Ask for a dump
> Run with the debugger
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 9. For the ninth bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Blame it on the hardware
> Find a way around it
> Say they need an upgrade
> Reinstall the software
> Ask for a dump
> Run with the debugger
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 10. For the tenth bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Change the documentation
> Blame it on the hardware
> Find a way around it
> Say they need an upgrade
> Reinstall the software
> Ask for a dump
> Run with the debugger
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 11. For the eleventh bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Claim it was the Network
> Change the documentation
> Blame it on the hardware
> Find a way around it
> Say they need an upgrade
> Reinstall the software
> Ask for a dump
> Run with the debugger
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again.
>
> 12. For the eleventh bug of Christmas, my manager said to me:
> Blame it on Bill Gates
> Claim it was the Network
> Change the documentation
> Blame it on the hardware
> Find a way around it
> Say they need an upgrade
> Reinstall the software
> Ask for a dump
> Run with the debugger
> Try to reproduce it
> Ask them how they did it and
> See if they can do it again
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:13:14 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:46:03
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:11:28
>
>> >You lack basic understanding in how to create GUI, apperantely.
>>
>> Sure, right. And you have your head up your ass.
>
>Personal insults is the last resource of a clueless troll.
Actually, disguising personal insults as a technical opinion seems more
up your alley.
>> [...]Yes, there are real world interfaces on Mac. One
>> would expect that that platform would have many more, proportionally,
>> than any other. Yet Windows still beats it, handily. Must be because
>> its more popular, eh? Or maybe because such a crappy platform prevents
>> the competitive forces in the free market from rejecting crappy
>> application developments. Kind of like that registry permissions thing
>> you've been ranting about.
>
>You *really* are ignorant.
>There is nothing in Windows that makes real world interfaces easier to built
>than in any other GUI platform.
Just how long are you going to insist on missing the point, boy? I
didn't say it was easier; just that it was more common, since it doesn't
hurt much to be disfunctional when you can't be competitive to begin
with.
>And there is nothing in windows that prevet free market in applications.
Now there's where you're mistaken.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:13:18 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Nigel Feltham in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:55:50
>>You're kidding, right? The amount of effort it would take to reduce a
>>particular template to a simple template which still breaks is so
>>herculean as to be incredible. Go with the evolutionary approach; its
>>too complex to try to be empirical. Dump the monopoly crapware first
>>change you get, and wait for the illegal behavior to be rectified.
>
>If the problem is the same one I have with openoffice then any simple
>template with multipage tables will cause problem to occur so it is not
>so hard to do. The alternative would be to take the complex template and
>replace any text containing company info with dummy text and send the
>developers this (the simple template idea was only to avoid personal
>info being sent with the sample).
Not to quibble, but if you know the problem is multipage tables, why
bother sending anything anywhere? Let the friggen' developers do their
own troubleshooting. You already paid for the software.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:13:21 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Nigel Feltham in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:25:29
>>too complex to try to be empirical. Dump the monopoly crapware first
>>change you get, and wait for the illegal behavior to be rectified.
>
>It's not easy to dump monopoly crapware if you work in an office as part
>of a team any you are the only one using alternative software - you still
>need the ability to read any files created by the rest of the team and
>create files they can read - you also need the ability to use the company
>document templates.
Tell me about it (and check my headers). I never said dump it
immediately, did I?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:13:30 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said tony roth in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:20:34
>what linux distro is c2 compliant?
>
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Well, obviously this is not true, as typical Unix machines have achieved
>> C2 security. Initiating a login *is* a "user mode" program.
None, as far as I know.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:13:35 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Kelsey Bjarnason in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 07 Dec 2000
>"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>
>> > > up to 63,000 bugs in win2k
>> >
>> > 63,000 bugs? Got a cite for that?
>>
>> It came direct from a Microsoft kernel programmer.
>
>Really? What was his name? Where's the copy of the posting where he said
>this? Did he actually say "bugs", or did he say "issues"?
>
>You're missing a few points on credibility. Sort of like me saying I have a
>contract here that says you owe me a million dollars, in U.S. funds, so pay
>up - unless I can provide something more substantial than sheer assertion
>that it "is too!" I can hardly expect to collect - just as your failure to
>provide details hardly gives you reason to expect to be taken seriously.
I'm afraid your understanding of 'credibility' is a bit skewed, Kelsey.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:13:54 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Simon Cooke wrote:
[...]
>We've had this argument before,
Indeed, but you still haven't learned a damn thing. Pity.
>and you still plainly don't understand the
>business side of software development,
An entirely fabricated argument. You simply disagree with my
understanding, though it is far more practical, as well as consistent
and accurate, than yours.
>so stop making a fool of yourself.
I am not the fool here, Simon, and I have no fear that any reasonable
person reading our discussion would think so. You seem to be attempting
to beg off the argument. Its best if you do so quietly, by simply going
away.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:14:08 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:42:44
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >This would be true even if
>> >that company did nothing wrong yet. In 1903, the Wright Brothers
>> >were monopolists becuase they built 100% of the working flying
>> >machines in the world, at least according to your definition.
>>
>> "The Wright Brothers" wasn't a profit-seeking company, precisely. Try
>> to stick to the real world, please.
>
>Try Netscape then. They gave their browser away for free, and then started
>charging for it after they'd already built up their monopoly.
Not. They used a shareware model, quite successfully, until MS bundled
IE. Then they opened their source code.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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