Linux-Advocacy Digest #283, Volume #31 Fri, 5 Jan 01 23:13:04 EST
Contents:
Deja No News (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Question with Security on Linux/Unix versus Windows NT/2000 (Stephen King)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. (Michael Vester)
Re: Uptimes (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks. ("Kyle Jacobs")
Change the damn subject line please (Bob Lyday)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Deja No News
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:49:53 GMT
I'm posting this message to point out that I am stripping that annoying
petition request from my signature. This should be the last post
showing it. I know its annoying, and I no longer think there's any
chance that, if the situation is going to be corrected, it will be
furthered in any way by whether or not I post the link to this page.
I find the situation very pathetic, and disturbing, to be honest, and
join with at least thousands, and hopefully millions, of people who
consider Deja's actions and response to be reprehensible. It does not
take an extremist mind-set nor a socialist canter to believe that the
archives Deja has amassed from Usenet are not theirs in an unencumbered
fashion, and they are ethically and even legally and commercially
required to ensure that they are available economically and without
undue restrictions, or that they are allowed to be maintained by those
who will do so.
I'm sick of being reminded of this depressing state of affairs every
time I read one of my own posts, so I'm chopping the sig.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
------------------------------
From: Stephen King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question with Security on Linux/Unix versus Windows NT/2000
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:50:06 GMT
kiwiunixman wrote:
>
> Also, an UNIX box costs more to setup due the lack of UNIX administrators
> (because of the onslaught of Microsoft "if you can point and click you're an
> administrator" message).
Have you seen what MCSE certification manual sets can cost?
(I am quite comfortable with my little stack of O'Reilly's)
> Hence, pay a UNIX admin $NZ120K a year or $NZ45K for a wintel admin?
Pay 1 unix admin for the productivity of 3 wintel admins ... 1 unix
admin who can manage machines all around the globe from a single
location ...
Here in Canada, the disparity between salaries is not so extreme. I
wager the productivity ratio is valid everywhere.
--
Porsche Boxster 88,295,285 Club-Z points away
Stephen J King :: RR2 Utopia Canada L0M 1T0
--
------------------------------
From: Michael Vester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:23:18 -0700
How could I snip this. Great story, you have a terrific
imagination. You certainly spend time doing some research.
Keep up the effort. I enjoy most of the stories posted by you
and your many alias. c.o.l.a. wouldn't be the same without
you.
Michael Vester
A Credible Linux Advocate
<not snipped but not x-posted either>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Linux had better get it's collective ass organized if it ever hopes to
> compete for desktop market share with Windows and Mac. In it's present
> state it is a conglomeration of disjointed half completed works.
>
> I received my Mandrake update CD this week and decided to give
> Mandrake 7.2 another whirl, partly because I am bored at the moment
> and partly because I was hoping that this one was the big winner.
>
> I kept a detailed log of all of my Linux complaints just so I could be
> somewhat accurate in describing the headache that Linux is.
>
> Let's start with the Mandrake install process, which seems to have a
> mind of it's own. Feed it an "expert" parameter, which is supposed to
> prevent hardware detection, and it still tries to detect hardware.
> It never prompts me to make a boot/rescue disk and insists on mis
> configuring my Logitech wheel mouse. In addition it thinks my Matrox
> G200 card has 4 meg, unless I select the SD version and then it asks
> me how much memory the card has, which is 8 meg.
> God help you if you choose not to set up your internet connection when
> you are prompted because ppp doesn't get installed (modem connection).
> Even worse, if you decide to set up Networking during the install,
> internet connection sharing will never work unless you can figure out
> how to undo the mess of DNS and host name crap that gets scattered
> about. The solution is to answer yes to internet connection via modem
> and no to networking and set up ICS later. It works fine that way.
> Also, make sure you don't hit enter after you are prompted to install
> the second or third CDROM because even though the cancel box is NOT
> highlighted, that is what will happen and those programs will NOT get
> installed. Solution is to use the mouse and click OK.
> Also Install everything is NOT the same as Custom->install everything
> option. With the custom->install everything you get more Enlightenment
> programs along with VMWare and other stuff. With the Install
> everything option from the main menu you don't get everything.
>
> So now let us proceed to post install. First off we must change the
> fonts from 75dpi to 100dpi in the /etc/X11/fs/config file. Why on
> earth they default to 75dpi is beyond me because even on a 21 inch
> Sony monitor it looks like shit.
> Now we must change the default mouse to Microsoft intellimouse even
> though it is a Logitech mouse. Warning, if you choose Logitech your
> mouse will NEVER work in Linux again and there is no way out of it
> unless you happen to be good at console commands and editing config
> files. Also I had to change the refresh rate and other display
> settings including fonts.
> Speaking of fonts, Mandrake includes a nifty tool to find all of your
> Windows fonts and and make them available to Linux. It finds them all
> right but they don't appear as selections in any programs including
> DrakFont if you launch it a second time after adding them.
> On to Enlightenment which seems unable to even save the settings of an
> Eterm. Change the font, save current settings close, relaunch and it
> goes back to default every time. This is with root or user access and
> does not matter.
> How about the Wheel mouse which sometimes works and other times
> doesn't? Usually opening and closing Netscape or whatever the
> offending application happens to be at the moment, makes it work again
> until the next time it doesn't work again. Why can't XMMS remember
> it's settings like song directories? Why does the Enlightenment menu
> sometimes appear and other times doesn't? How about the icon box that
> comes and goes when it pleases? Applications that completely disappear
> from the desktop but are yet still running (alt/middle mouse button
> shows them)?
> How about no sound out of the digital port on the SBLive card?
> GMC that refuses to allow saving of some files, despite running SU as
> root?
> Netscape that out of the blue decides that it needs all 512meg of RAM
> that my system has?
>
> How do you set up Dial on Demand using kppp (the default dialup
> included with Mandrake)?
>
> Let's move on to Wine shall we?
> After trying pan to read news offline (like 99 percent of the Windows
> world does) and having it self destruct on me over and over again, I
> decided to try wine running Agent. What a mess, because I run Win2k.
> Someone needs to re-write that disaster of a man page (and while they
> are at it they should re-write ALL of the man pages).
> Didn't matter because although Agent would start, as soon as I tried
> to go online it would segfault. Most likely had something to do with
> Win2k though because I have had Wine/Agent working with Win98 in the
> past fine.
> It's difficult to believe that there are no good offline news readers
> for Linux. Leaf node is an abortion in comparison to running Agent and
> the only advantage is if several users are reading news and using the
> same dialup.
>
> Why doesn't Knode remember it's settings like Window size?
>
> Why is adding to or editing Menues in Enlightenment such a pita? Shit
> I just drag and drop from menues in Windows. Seems pretty simple to
> me?
>
> How about PM firewall? Well this one is a real gem if ever there was
> one. Simple to set up and it works very well. It should have prompts
> for possible selections though as it took me a while to figure out
> that my external interface was ppp0 and I doubt Joe Sixpack will ever
> figure it out.
>
> A very nice program.
>
> ICS was another gem because as long as you don't set up networking
> during the install, it works perfectly except for demand dial.
>
> Why does Mandrake insist on changing my mouse settings every time it
> boots up? I had to turn off hardware detection for that one.
>
> Why doesn't my mouse "hover scroll" meaning if I have a split window
> in an application if I move the mouse over each window I just have to
> move the wheel to scroll. I do not have to click in each window. No
> focus setting under Linux that I tried allowed this to work.
>
> How come I can't use a printer that is on my network and connected to
> a machine running Windows 2k?
>
> Under Windows 2k on the same machine that is running Linux, I just
> select "Add Network Printer/browse and it finds the printer, add's the
> printer and I am done.
>
> I screwed with Samba till I was sick of dancing and could not make it
> work.
>
> Why is there so much way outdated documentation for Linux out there?
> Even Mandrakeuser.org has stuff that will render your system useless
> if you follow th instructions with more modern versions?
>
> Why is the Mandrake.com site just about useless?
>
> How come the upgrade CD I received turned kde into a vegetable? I had
> to reload the entire thing.
>
> How come if I try to install Enlightenment after the fact it fails
> dependencies even though they are on my system?
>
> I could go on for hours with all of the inconsistencies of Linux but
> now let's take a Windows 2k install and see how a quality,
> professional system should be installed.
>
> g:\setup.exe and away it goes.
> All hardware including my scanner and USB camera is detected.
> I didn't even have to install the scanner/camera programs because the
> default program installed with WIn2k worked fine but I did install
> PhotoShop which came with the scanner. Tell me about Gimpy again?
> After install, I did have to add Netbui protocol because for some
> strange reason my Linksys cards don't work without it?
> Click on create dial up.
> Click on share connection and allow demand dial.
> Install firewall (setup.exe again).
> Click on add a printer->network printer->browse and select the printer
> on the other system. Couldn't be any easier. Try that one under
> Linsux.
> That's it and everything works fine and I can enjoy my APPLICATIONS
> instead of screwing around with an operating system. Did I mention how
> many quality applications there are for Windows? The Linux
> applications seem like they are half done by comparison. Really they
> do. Compare that X-Traceroute program with NeoTrace. Or Gaim with the
> real AIM. It's not even close. Speaking of Gaim, how come it doesn't
> recognize my friends coming online real time, but requires me to log
> off and on again to reset it? Doesn't happen all the time, but enough
> to be annoying.
>
> Nope, Linux is a crude, nasty system that is full of warts and is in
> need of some real polish before it is ready for mainstream use.
>
> Maybe Microsoft will buy Linux and make it worth using someday?
>
> Flatfish
> Why do they call it a flatfish?
> Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Uptimes
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 03:02:22 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 5 Jan 2001
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> You are presuming that the system is functioning correctly. That's a
>> dangerous, and false, assumption when dealing with proprietary crapware.
>> With NT, you might well get a connection refused message because the
>> "server" is down, although the machine is up, because Microsoft doesn't
>> see any point or purpose in keeping the two separate, as has been long
>> known to be an effective method of thereby limiting the fault domain.
>> Likewise, the machine may be 'up', and you'll still get a timeout,
>> because you're using a different definition of 'up'. Certainly, it
>> could be a network issue, but conveniently blaming the network is
>> all-too-often a way to simply abrogate the blame which rightfully
>> accrues to Microsoft crapware.
>
>You're not comprehending. My point is that there is a difference between a
>timeout and a connection refused.
My point is that this is irrelevant, though I am well aware of the fact,
and why it is so. You're trying to say that you can assume what caused
one or the other to occur, and in that I pointed out that you are going
too far, particularly if it is based on a presumption that Microsoft
platform is functioning correctly.
>Indeed, to get a connection refused the machine *HAS* to be up, and the
>server down (or port blocked or there is a connection limit in place).
Well, some machine has to be up, but its relationship to "the server",
depending on what you want to point to, and whether both or either are
functioning in some other way, is entirely supposition on your part.
>What's your point? That has nothing to do with the OS though. If the web
>server process has crashed, the port will still be open and cause a timeout.
Whether something "has to do" with any one particular component is
largely an arbitrary and pointless exercise, when doing this sort of
thing. (You've happened to stray, like an old man wandering into a mine
field unawares, into my specialty; network connectivity and
troubleshooting failures.) Whether the web server process crashing will
leave a port open, and whether this will result in a client timeout,
depends on how tightly 'integrated' the two proprietary products are and
what you know their behavior is when things *fail*, as opposed to when
they're working the way you know they're supposed to. Suffice it to
say, though, that most of the time, your assumption is valid, whether it
is correct or not. When a port is 'open', but the 'server process' has
crashed, you should get a timeout on the client.
>The server process has to be stopped completly for it to give a connection
>refused (unless the port is blocked or you have put connection limits in
>place).
And so, again, you are aware of the typical situation, but you also
presume that this is the way things always work. In real life, all you
know is that there is a big "unless" which means you have to have a
reason to care before it even makes any difference. Stripped of the
contextual example which began the discussion, due to snippage, I can
only say that you cannot tell, no matter how strongly you wish to stomp
your foot and insist you can, what will happens when monopoly crapware
fails, like you can with an actual client-server system based on open
standards and a peer reviewed code base.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 03:08:02 GMT
Boy, way to totally miss the "big picture".
The problems this person is having are truly "issues" under the Mandrake 7.2
install. By reading this post, it looks clear that "flatfish++++" went
totally out of their way to find faults WITH the installer, but the issue
remains.
Instead of poking holes in the minor details in the analysis (which by my
experience with Mandrake 7.2 is somewhat accurate) why isn't there an
outrage to correct the dumb mistakes IN the system?
Because it's "free"?
Bad answer.
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:935tl3$oqi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Let's start with the Mandrake install process, which seems to have a
> > mind of it's own. Feed it an "expert" parameter, which is supposed to
> > prevent hardware detection, and it still tries to detect hardware.
>
> Wow, windows doesnt even give you THAT option.
>
> > It never prompts me to make a boot/rescue disk
>
> It does for me, every time. You are either lying or doing something
> wrong.
>
> > and insists on mis
> > configuring my Logitech wheel mouse.
>
> Both of my logitech wheel mice (usb and serial) work just fine.
>
> > In addition it thinks my Matrox
> > G200 card has 4 meg, unless I select the SD version and then it asks
> > me how much memory the card has, which is 8 meg.
>
> Thats not linux, thats XFree86. You would have that problem under any
> unix implementation which included XFree86.
>
> > God help you if you choose not to set up your internet connection when
> > you are prompted because ppp doesn't get installed (modem connection).
>
> You can do that later, and its very easy.
>
> > Even worse, if you decide to set up Networking during the install,
> > internet connection sharing will never work unless you can figure out
> > how to undo the mess of DNS and host name crap that gets scattered
> > about.
>
> Yes, all scattered about in both /etc and the documentation. It takes
> less than a minute to set it all up.
>
> > The solution is to answer yes to internet connection via modem
> > and no to networking and set up ICS later. It works fine that way.
>
> It works fine if you do it the right way too.
>
> > Also, make sure you don't hit enter after you are prompted to install
> > the second or third CDROM because even though the cancel box is NOT
> > highlighted, that is what will happen and those programs will NOT get
> > installed. Solution is to use the mouse and click OK.
>
> Huh, both my CDRW and CDROM worked just fine right out of the install.
>
> > Also Install everything is NOT the same as Custom->install everything
> > option. With the custom->install everything you get more Enlightenment
> > programs along with VMWare and other stuff. With the Install
> > everything option from the main menu you don't get everything.
>
> Under expert, you can pick and choose exactly which packages you would
> like to install.
>
> > So now let us proceed to post install. First off we must change the
> > fonts from 75dpi to 100dpi in the /etc/X11/fs/config file.
>
> The horror.
>
> > Why on
> > earth they default to 75dpi is beyond me because even on a 21 inch
> > Sony monitor it looks like shit.
>
> Not everyone is using the same hardware as you.
>
> > Now we must change the default mouse to Microsoft intellimouse even
> > though it is a Logitech mouse.
>
> I didnt have to do that, and my logitech mouse works just fine.
>
> > Warning, if you choose Logitech your
> > mouse will NEVER work in Linux again and there is no way out of it
> > unless you happen to be good at console commands and editing config
> > files.
>
> This is an outright lie.
>
> > Also I had to change the refresh rate and other display
> > settings including fonts.
>
> Oh my god, you had to change your refresh rate? Interesting that no
> where in your post do you note that all windows installs default to
> a MAXIMUM of 800x600x60hz. You have to change that too.
>
> > Speaking of fonts, Mandrake includes a nifty tool to find all of your
> > Windows fonts and and make them available to Linux. It finds them all
> > right but they don't appear as selections in any programs including
> > DrakFont if you launch it a second time after adding them.
>
> It depends on the program, but you can get them to be anywhere you like
> if you read the documentation.
>
> Apparantly youve never read the documentation.
>
> "Calculus sucks because I dont understand it!"
> "Well, did you do your homework and read the chapter?"
> "Uhhmmm....no."
>
> > On to Enlightenment which seems unable to even save the settings of an
> > Eterm.
>
> Thats not an enlightenment thing. Read the documentation.
>
> > Change the font, save current settings close, relaunch and it
> > goes back to default every time. This is with root or user access and
> > does not matter.
>
> Read the documentation. To wit:
>
> Eterm -bg black -fg white +sb -s 10000 -F sabvga &
>
> You can alias that if you want. Hell, you can make a cute button for
> your desktop out of it too if you like. Read the documentation.
>
> > How about the Wheel mouse which sometimes works and other times
> > doesn't?
>
> Mine always work. I have a serial wheelmouse, a logitech usb wheelmouse,
> and a razer boomslang usb wheelmouse, all of which work perfectly, and
> all at the same time.
>
> > Usually opening and closing Netscape or whatever the
> > offending application happens to be at the moment, makes it work again
> > until the next time it doesn't work again. Why can't XMMS remember
> > it's settings like song directories?
>
> It does. Read the documentation.
>
> > Why does the Enlightenment menu
> > sometimes appear and other times doesn't?
>
> Read the documentation.
>
> > How about the icon box that
> > comes and goes when it pleases?
>
> That icon box has been broken for a number of years. Use another window
> manager. Windowmaker is lovely.
>
> > Applications that completely disappear
> > from the desktop but are yet still running (alt/middle mouse button
> > shows them)?
>
> Thats an enlightenment feature. Read the documentation.
>
> > How about no sound out of the digital port on the SBLive card?
>
> The driver doesnt support it. Look for an update in the coming weeks.
>
> > GMC that refuses to allow saving of some files, despite running SU as
> > root?
>
> You dont understand unix filesystems or permissions.
>
> > Netscape that out of the blue decides that it needs all 512meg of RAM
> > that my system has?
>
> Netscape is a piece of shit. Use opera.
>
> > How do you set up Dial on Demand using kppp (the default dialup
> > included with Mandrake)?
>
> Its in the documentation. Read it.
>
> > Let's move on to Wine shall we?
> > After trying pan to read news offline (like 99 percent of the Windows
> > world does) and having it self destruct on me over and over again, I
> > decided to try wine running Agent.
>
> Huh. Works for me.
>
> > What a mess, because I run Win2k.
> > Someone needs to re-write that disaster of a man page (and while they
> > are at it they should re-write ALL of the man pages).
>
> They are fine. You simply dont understand them. Dont blame your own
> ignorance and lack of experience on man pages.
>
> And besides that, theres an assload of wine documentation on the web.
> Look it up.
>
> > Didn't matter because although Agent would start, as soon as I tried
> > to go online it would segfault. Most likely had something to do with
> > Win2k though because I have had Wine/Agent working with Win98 in the
> > past fine.
>
> You didnt read the documentation. Wine does not work with W2K binaries.
>
> > It's difficult to believe that there are no good offline news readers
> > for Linux. Leaf node is an abortion in comparison to running Agent and
> > the only advantage is if several users are reading news and using the
> > same dialup.
>
> There are tons. www.freshmeat.net.
>
> > Why doesn't Knode remember it's settings like Window size?
>
> It doesnt need to.
>
> > Why is adding to or editing Menues in Enlightenment such a pita? Shit
> > I just drag and drop from menues in Windows. Seems pretty simple to
> > me?
>
> Enlightenment is not a windowing environment, it is a window manager.
>
> > How about PM firewall? Well this one is a real gem if ever there was
> > one. Simple to set up and it works very well. It should have prompts
> > for possible selections though as it took me a while to figure out
> > that my external interface was ppp0 and I doubt Joe Sixpack will ever
> > figure it out.
>
> Joe sixpack doesnt need a firewall for linux. There are other, much
> easier ways to secure a box.
>
> > Why does Mandrake insist on changing my mouse settings every time it
> > boots up? I had to turn off hardware detection for that one.
>
> It doesnt do that for me. You did something wrong.
>
> > Why doesn't my mouse "hover scroll" meaning if I have a split window
> > in an application if I move the mouse over each window I just have to
> > move the wheel to scroll. I do not have to click in each window. No
> > focus setting under Linux that I tried allowed this to work.
>
> Thats a windows thing.
>
> > How come I can't use a printer that is on my network and connected to
> > a machine running Windows 2k?
>
> You arent running samba. Read the documentation.
>
> > Under Windows 2k on the same machine that is running Linux, I just
> > select "Add Network Printer/browse and it finds the printer, add's the
> > printer and I am done.
>
> Neat. A different operating system.
>
> > I screwed with Samba till I was sick of dancing and could not make it
> > work.
>
> Then you're an idiot. Its not that difficult, and you doubtlessly
> didnt read the documentation.
>
> > Why is there so much way outdated documentation for Linux out there?
> > Even Mandrakeuser.org has stuff that will render your system useless
> > if you follow th instructions with more modern versions?
>
> You arent looking in the right place. Its easy to find, however you
> do need a brain.
>
> > Why is the Mandrake.com site just about useless?
>
> Its quite useful to me.
>
> > How come the upgrade CD I received turned kde into a vegetable? I had
> > to reload the entire thing.
>
> I didnt. You did it wrong, and didnt read the documentation.
>
> > How come if I try to install Enlightenment after the fact it fails
> > dependencies even though they are on my system?
>
> ldconfig.
>
> > I could go on for hours with all of the inconsistencies of Linux but
> > now let's take a Windows 2k install and see how a quality,
> > professional system should be installed.
>
> You simply do not, and do not WANT to understand linux. Either that
> or you are retarded.
>
> > g:\setup.exe and away it goes.
> > All hardware including my scanner and USB camera is detected.
> > I didn't even have to install the scanner/camera programs because the
> > default program installed with WIn2k worked fine but I did install
> > PhotoShop which came with the scanner. Tell me about Gimpy again?
> > After install, I did have to add Netbui protocol because for some
> > strange reason my Linksys cards don't work without it?
> > Click on create dial up.
> > Click on share connection and allow demand dial.
> > Install firewall (setup.exe again).
> > Click on add a printer->network printer->browse and select the printer
> > on the other system. Couldn't be any easier. Try that one under
> > Linsux.
>
> It took me all of 30 minutes to install Mandrake 7.2 on my system, and
> everything worked perfectly right out of the box.
>
> > That's it and everything works fine and I can enjoy my APPLICATIONS
> > instead of screwing around with an operating system. Did I mention how
> > many quality applications there are for Windows? The Linux
> > applications seem like they are half done by comparison. Really they
> > do. Compare that X-Traceroute program with NeoTrace. Or Gaim with the
> > real AIM. It's not even close. Speaking of Gaim, how come it doesn't
> > recognize my friends coming online real time, but requires me to log
> > off and on again to reset it? Doesn't happen all the time, but enough
> > to be annoying.
>
> You do not even understand what traceroute actually does, do you.
>
> > Nope, Linux is a crude, nasty system that is full of warts and is in
> > need of some real polish before it is ready for mainstream use.
>
> Perhaps, but why does it need to be ready for mainstream use? Its
> just fine right now.
>
> > Maybe Microsoft will buy Linux and make it worth using someday?
>
> Ah. You ARE retarded.
>
>
>
>
> -----.
>
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 03:16:24 GMT
That "book on the GIMP" is a model example of how LINUX DOCUMENTATION SHOULD
BE.
Those ass-backward"howto" guides could take a tip.
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Les Mikesell wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I never have that sort of problem with on-line manual pages.
> >
> > "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:mbc56.146555$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Oh, like all the "documented" functionality under Linux.
> > >
> > > Nice try.
> > >
> > > "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:NmS46.54285$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Man pages, info files, HOWTOs, a whole frikkin' CD full of
> documentation.
>
> And then you have the Web. Example: downloaded a 9 Mb PDF file
> of a book detailing how to use the GIMP:
>
> http://manual.gimp.org/download/
>
> Try to do that with a Microsoft product. xpdf displays it
> very nicely, by the way. No need to download Adobe Acrobat
> to read it. (ghostview, on the other hand, was much slower).
>
> Chris (another Illinois boy, transplanted)
>
> --
> Flipping the Bozo bit at 400 MHz
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:26:00 -0800
From: Bob Lyday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.os.linux
Subject: Change the damn subject line please
Bob Eager wrote:
>
> On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:11:44, "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
Thanks I would appreciate it. U may want to snip too.
--
Bob
In the interest of the Christmas spirit, the nasty anti-Dubya sig has
been put aside. Don't despair, it will return shortly. ;) However,
spammers will get no mercy during the holidays. Therefore, you must
continue to remove "killthespammers" to reply. ;)
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