Linux-Advocacy Digest #575, Volume #31 Fri, 19 Jan 01 12:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: I just can't help it! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: I just can't help it! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Would Linux be invented if? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: New Microsoft Ad :-) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: What really burns the Winvocates here... (Ian Davey)
Re: I just can't help it! (Donn Miller)
Re: Win2k vs Linux? Why downgrade to Linux? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Win2k vs Linux? Why downgrade to Linux? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I just can't help it!
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:38:17 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Aaron Ginn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Nobody said that. What we're saying is that typical desktops *ARE* shut
> > > down at night. This is in contradiction to people who talk about
> > > how their
> >
> > No they aren't. Typical Windows desktops maybe. Does typical mean
> > Windows in your world? I take it that you, like Microsoft, think
> > these are good results?
>
> Typical desktops are shut down to conserve power. Only recently has power
> management become useable in Linux and other OS's.
>
> A company that shuts down it's PC's at night can save millions in
> electricity bills.
And pay millions MORE in monitor replacement costs.
Clue for the clueless: The most destructive thing you can do to a
computer system (especially monitors) is to power them off every night.
Power-cycles are hard on electrical systems, ESPECIALLY motors and
vacuum tubes (like monitor screens).
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I just can't help it!
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:40:09 -0500
mlw wrote:
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron Ginn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >
> > > > Nobody said that. What we're saying is that typical desktops *ARE* shut
> > > > down at night. This is in contradiction to people who talk about
> > > > how their
> > >
> > > No they aren't. Typical Windows desktops maybe. Does typical mean
> > > Windows in your world? I take it that you, like Microsoft, think
> > > these are good results?
> >
> > Typical desktops are shut down to conserve power. Only recently has power
> > management become useable in Linux and other OS's.
>
> You keep saying this, but I doubt that it is true. I see many people
> just turn off their monitors when they go home.
They shouldn't even do that.
when the monitor goes to power saving mode, it only consumes a couple
of watts...just enough to keep the tube warm so that "turning on" to
display again doesn't add yet another thermal-shock cycle.
Compared to the energy cost to make a NEW monitor (which of course, is
included in the price of said monitor), the 5W to keep the tube warm
is minor.
>
> >
> > A company that shuts down it's PC's at night can save millions in
> > electricity bills.
>
> The time it takes to start up a system, especially Win2K, probably costs
> more in productivity than the electricity a computer uses over night.
>
> --
> http://www.mohawksoft.com
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Would Linux be invented if?
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:43:43 -0500
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > If I remember my history rightfully, the Volks Wagon (aka Peoples Car)
> was
> > designed for the average working class Joe so that they could afford to
> own
> > a car. Hence, has not parallel to the hell Hitler released on the world.
>
> It was done during the Nazi regime's economic reconstruction period before
> people woke up to the fact that Hitler was going to run amok. (If anyone
> actually had bothered to read Mein Kamph back then...) Actually, from an
> engineering standpoint, it was one hell of a car. The car, in and of
> itself, of course, isn't evil. Of course, slave labor was later used to
Unless, of course, you are an American leftist who, on a symbolic level,
sees "evil" in everybody ELSE's activities and choices.
Remember...live by the sword of symbolism...die by the sword of symbolism.
> build them and the military version (which resurfaced back in the 1970's as
> the Thing)
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Microsoft Ad :-)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:45:05 GMT
In article <kvl96.136$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/16139.html
> >
> > Did I read this correctly?
> >
> > Win2K: MTTF 2893 Hours? (120 days)
> > NT: MTTF 919 Hours? (38 Days)
> > Win98: MTTF 216 Hours (9 days)
> >
> > Is TheRegister.co.uk kidding? NO! Go to the source page:
> >
> > http://www.nstl.com/html/windows_2000_reliability.html
> >
> > Talk about spin doctoring, read this:
> >
> > "From the above results, we conclude that in production
environments,
> > the
> > average system uptime between failures of Windows 2000
Professional
> > is 13
> > times more than that of Windows 98 and 3 times more than that of
> > Windows NT
> > Workstation 4.0. With a mean time to failure of over 72 weeks,
> > Windows 2000
> > Professional is significantly more reliable than Windows 98 and
> > Windows NT
> > Workstation 4.0."
> >
> > BTW That 72 weeks assumes you turn off the computer when you go
home,
> > and only work 40 hours a week. Bogus. It is really only about 18
weeks
> > of constant uptime (closer to 17).
>
> The test covers desktop environments, not servers. The average
desktop *IS*
> shutdown at night.
This is an artifact of the historical unreliability of MS operating
systems. Unix/Linux workstations are never shutdown at night.
>
> > Well, there you have it, plain and simple. A study, funded by
Microsoft,
> > that proves that while 2K is better than NT, it still sucks.
>
> The way they count failure is "unplanned reboot". Also note that
they used
> beta versions of 2000 for the study (they also used the released
version,
> but beta's were also used).
NO
And I repeat NO NO NO
They were not counting "unplannned reboot" they were counting "abnormal
shutdown". Read the study (which is woefully short on details). So if
the whole system has gone to hell (barely responsive, short on
resources, etc.) and you reboot "voluntarily" before it completely
freezes/bsods on you, this counts as a "normal shutdown" and doesn't
count against the reliability numbers.
Those uptime numbers are pretty disgusting considering daily reboots +
this.
One good place to get good statistical uptime numbers would be on the
big Beowulf clusters. Several dozen to several thousand cpus all
running high (and varied) computational loads, lots of network traffic,
and often serving NFS. And I think some poor saps have actually built
NT computational clusters as well so we could compare apples to apples.
>
> The interesting thing about the study is that the number of hours
monitored
> for NT were a little over 1/3 of the number of hours monitored for
2000, and
> the number of hours monitored for 98 were a little more than 20% of
those of
> 2000.
>
> > Just so people know, MTTF is the "mean time to failure" which means
that
> > given any Win2K system, there is a good chance it will crash within
120
> > days, and that NT will crash within 38 days, and Win98 will crash
within
> > 9 days. There is also a likelihood that it will be much sooner.
>
> or much longer.
>
> > There is nothing more to be said. The MS-Zealots claim that their
NT/2K
> > systems have longer uptimes, but they are either being dishonest or
they
> > are not the norm. Microsoft has funded this study and used the
results
> > in an advertisement campaign.
>
> And what's the MTTF of Linux? Empirical studies, not anectdotes about
> single systems.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Davey)
Subject: Re: What really burns the Winvocates here...
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:01:41 GMT
>Pete Goodwin wrote:
[..]
>> In Netscape's case, if you try to
>> save an image, and move directory, it looses the filename.
Not in Netscape 6/Mozilla.
ian.
\ /
(@_@) http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/ (dark literature)
/(&)\ http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/libertycaptions/ (art)
| |
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:01:47 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I just can't help it!
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> when the monitor goes to power saving mode, it only consumes a couple
> of watts...just enough to keep the tube warm so that "turning on" to
> display again doesn't add yet another thermal-shock cycle.
Really? Hmmm. It would depend on what energy saving mode the monitor
was placed. For example, there's standby, suspend, and off.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Win2k vs Linux? Why downgrade to Linux?
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:02:36 -0500
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:945sil$gcj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > The Ghost In The Machine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >>I was in middle school (east coast lingo; that would be "junior high"
> > >>for most other north americans) in 1982.
> >
> > > I was in college. Netscape? What Netscape?
> > > Hell, we didn't even have a graphics-capable terminal, except
> > > for a Tektronix emulator in a Vt100. It worked, but
> > > it wouldn't have been too good for modern web browsing. :-)
> >
> > The first computer I laid hands on was around that time actually,
> > and was a commodore PET. (I cant remember which model). We wrote
> > BASIC programs that made little ascii rockets fly up the screen.
>
> There was a neat little hack you could write for those that toggled the
> cassette motor control relay back and forth at a high rate, eventually
> burning it out. Its' one of the few, non-monitor related, cases I can thnk
> of where software could seriously damage hardware.
There are stories of a program that would order disk-seeks, slowly
reducing the number of tracks, so that the frequency of the disk-head
motion would eventually match a harmonic frequency of the chassis,
thereby causing destruction of the computer as the energy accumulates
faster than the chassis can dissipate it.
On the other hand, it might just be a physics joke.
>
> >
> > > I will also note that RFC1945 (that's HTTP/1.0) is dated May 1996.
> > > It's very hard to see how Netscape could exist without a protocol! :-)
> > > Of course, HTTP might have been in use some years before it was
> > > standardized -- but it certainly wasn't in use in my college years.
> > > Not even Usenet existed in my college years; RFC977 is dated
> > > Feb 1986. (Maybe in yours, yttrx, since you seem to be slightly
> > > younger than yours truly. :-) )
> >
> > Well, I was in college from 1987 to 1995. Usenet certianly existed, and
> > I accessed it through an account on a VAX VMS setup. Those days were
> > alot of fun for me; the entire internet consisted of Usenet, IRC and
> > NetHack. I actually didnt use any sort of graphical interface for
> > anything until a couple of versions into Mosiac; and then it was mostly
> > for looking at what I was looking at with lynx in the first place---
> > subgenius propaganda. Remember what would happen when you fingered
> > or emailed [EMAIL PROTECTED]?
> >
> > Those certianly were some fun times.
>
> Too bad they're gone, now...
> The "community" was a lot more fun back then.
>
> --
> Tom Wilson
> Sunbelt Software Solutions
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Win2k vs Linux? Why downgrade to Linux?
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:06:41 -0500
"." wrote:
>
> The Ghost In The Machine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >>I was in middle school (east coast lingo; that would be "junior high"
> >>for most other north americans) in 1982.
>
> > I was in college. Netscape? What Netscape?
> > Hell, we didn't even have a graphics-capable terminal, except
> > for a Tektronix emulator in a Vt100. It worked, but
> > it wouldn't have been too good for modern web browsing. :-)
>
> The first computer I laid hands on was around that time actually,
> and was a commodore PET. (I cant remember which model). We wrote
> BASIC programs that made little ascii rockets fly up the screen.
>
> > I will also note that RFC1945 (that's HTTP/1.0) is dated May 1996.
> > It's very hard to see how Netscape could exist without a protocol! :-)
> > Of course, HTTP might have been in use some years before it was
> > standardized -- but it certainly wasn't in use in my college years.
> > Not even Usenet existed in my college years; RFC977 is dated
> > Feb 1986. (Maybe in yours, yttrx, since you seem to be slightly
> > younger than yours truly. :-) )
>
> Well, I was in college from 1987 to 1995. Usenet certianly existed, and
> I accessed it through an account on a VAX VMS setup. Those days were
> alot of fun for me; the entire internet consisted of Usenet, IRC and
> NetHack. I actually didnt use any sort of graphical interface for
> anything until a couple of versions into Mosiac; and then it was mostly
> for looking at what I was looking at with lynx in the first place---
> subgenius propaganda. Remember what would happen when you fingered
> or emailed [EMAIL PROTECTED]?
>
or [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-)
> Those certianly were some fun times.
>
> -----.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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