Linux-Advocacy Digest #665, Volume #31 Mon, 22 Jan 01 23:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Why "uptime" is important. ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Poor Linux ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Poor Linux ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: New Microsoft Ad :-) ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: So much for Linux being more Difficult than Windows ("Gary Hallock")
Re: Poor Linux (J Sloan)
Re: future of linux pda (T. Max Devlin)
Re: The *BEST* advertising! ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: I am preparing to teach a Linux class and I am soliciting advice (Philo)
Re: The Server Saga (J Sloan)
Re: I am preparing to teach a Linux class and I am soliciting advice ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Multiple standards don't constitute choice (J Sloan)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Why "uptime" is important. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant ("Kyle Jacobs")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Why "uptime" is important.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:37:21 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >One should not have to change the way one is doing something to
> >accomodate the paltry number of whiners running Linux.
>
> Indeed, you are correct. That's why we call Windows "monopoly
> crapware", for forcing you to have to change the way you are doing
> something in order to accommodate people doing things the correct way.
Actually, I disagree. Linux users have a choice of what browser to run.
Granted, if they want to see modern content, they have a small list of
choices, but they DO have a choice. Netscape 6, as shitty as it is for
Linux, has the Gecko engine, which is WAY more standards compliant then
Mozilla was.
If a Linux user has no desire to update their browser, I can sum up no
empathy for their decision.
> >>I only use <pre></pre> tage for stuff like author contact lists, or
> >>formulae and very simple tables, for example, these ones on fusion
> >>reaction energies:
> >>
> >> http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/phys/fusion-energies.html
> >
> >Is that why your page looks like crap?
>
> No, its probably because its a technical page, and therefore he doesn't
> give a shit if it looks like crap. Why, do you think the nuclear
> physicists are bothered by it?
I'm sorry, but a little USER INTERFACE thinking would make this page
actually not be an eyesore. Sure, it get's the point across, but it LOOKS
terrible. Some frame based orginization, a soft background, some CSS, a
table to orginize things. Would this KILL the developer? Cause his page is
KILLIN my eyesight.
> >>I just checked that in Lynx so it's OK.
> >
> >Oh now I see why ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> That's somewhat ironic, isn't it?
This irony is lost on me, the page looks like it was made in vi, and looks
like it would be best suited for Lynx. Although there are obvious style
changes at the bottom, which Lynx can't reproduce...
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Poor Linux
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:38:55 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Kyle Jacobs wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > GAME
> > > SET
> > > MATCH.... jerkoff
> >
> > No comment.
>
> translation: Kyle Jacobs acknowledges my victory over flat-head.
No, it was distinctly "no comment" to your "MATCH.... jerkoff" line...
Again, I have no comment as that making rude, personal and often undeserving
comments about people on USENET is, cowardly, and wrong.
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Poor Linux
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:40:47 GMT
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> If it were hump-head you were fyting, then I'd applaud!
> But flat-head are much easier to jump over.
Who? What? Did I miss something?
> Beans and cornbread!
?
>
> To Flatpecker! May he help me convert 10 full people
> from Windows before his pecker falls off!
I think I have some inclination to who your are refering, and to it, I say
that this statement is extremely childish.
But then what else would I expect from a child.
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: New Microsoft Ad :-)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:42:08 GMT
Because your running Windows 95 or 98. Your ATA100 controller is past the
understanding of the Windows disk access control layer. You need DRIVERS to
accomidate such a controller.
Download driver. Problem solved.
Boy, sucks to hear it from Windows world people, don't it?
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:94g33o$bmb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Nope I'm not from any marketing organization, and I could care less
> > what Microsoft does as long as they continue to produce the quality,
> > easy to use and widely accepted as standard, applications they produce
> > now.
>
> Tell me claire, exactly why it is that while linux recognized my secondary
> PCI IDE controller (ATA/100) instantly and with no configuration
nessesary,
> windows decides that its a 'new device' every time I reboot and
incorrectly
> names it a "PCI RAID CONTROLLER"?
>
>
>
>
> -----.
>
------------------------------
From: "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So much for Linux being more Difficult than Windows
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:46:30 +0500
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> No YOU missed the point Gary. Earthlink provides software on the CD that
> he can't use because it doesn't run under Linux. It's more for a family,
> or newbie, but it is useful none the less. Oh yea it also includes the
> latest version of IE
> 5.5 a quality browser instead of that piece of trash Netscape.
> And BTW the Windows user can connect just as easily by calling them, and
> guess what it takes about 10 minutes because the person on the other end
> of the phone will know exactly how to assist you in setting up your
> system. Most of his hour was probably spent waiting for Earthlink to
> find the one person in the support department who knows anything about
> Linsux.
>
> So it is YOU who, once again miss the picture.
You really can't read, can you. He had to wait days for the CD to come.
In the meantime, he had Linux running in minutes. That hour was not
waiting for Earthlink to find someone who knows about Linux. He waited
an hour for the request for a new account to be processed.
Gary
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Poor Linux
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:53:40 GMT
Ketil Z Malde wrote:
> J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Could you explain in tangible terms what this acronym
> > should do for me?
>
> Sony-Philips Digital Interface, or SP/DIF, as its usually called.
> And it works, of course.
>
Ah -
Thank you, it's good to know flatfoot is still batting .000 -
> > Hmm, well I have 2 speakers, and like most Linux
> > users, I have only 2 ears.
>
> ...but if you add two more, you can route e.g. CD audio to your rear
> speakers, or whatever. On Linux.
I assume that would be 2 more speakers, not two more ears?
jjs
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: future of linux pda
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:54:12 GMT
Said jorgen in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:33:17 GMT;
>what will the future be ? who will surive of agandea and yada ? what
>tools and hardawre will we see ? what do you whis for youer linux pda
>? will it come any kde based linux pda ?
Will it come with a shift key ? or punctuation other than a question
mark ? or a spell checker ?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: The *BEST* advertising!
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:56:20 GMT
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Nonsense! I'm not baiting Flatbrain. He's doing this all by his
> own accord.
Really? I happen to believe otherwise. Apparently, so do others.
> He's providing the Linux community with the best advertising they've
> seen in years! People will read Flatfoosh's messages and immediately
> read the counter responses.
Great. And those who read those counter responses think about Linux for a
few minutes, or hours, and go about their usual business. Those endearing
enough to TRY Linux do so, so congratulations, you've got yourself a
convertee. Then they spend a few hours downloading & burning to CDROM, or
they buy a cheap CD. Or they do what I did, and buy a Retail copy.
Then, they spend an hour installing it (provided a GUI installer is present,
which it typically is these days).
Then they get to using it.
Then they hit a snag, something isn't supported, somewhere. They look for a
way to change a setting, they are inundated with infinite minutia, dated
information, insulting commentary from newsgroups, and incomprehensible
documentation of what IS available. They give up the hardware search, and
try software...
They find that something they wanted didn't come with the install, so they
venture out to find a program on the 'net. They find it, download it, and
try to install it, only to find that installing software under Linux is a
little like trying to pull teeth through someone's anus.
They MAY bite the bullet, and try to learn how to do this, they search for
the information...
6 hours later, they are back in Windows.
> And they will WONDER what Linux is and run out and get it.
> I want you to know that Mr. Linonut here has personally drove
> 9 by-standers off the sidelines to use Linux since he's showed
> up here.
See above.
> What happens is the E-mail me, then they ask if they can try
> Linux. Then I tell them about the different distributions,
> and make my recommendation, then they get installed.
And they get grossly disappointed when the only advice you can dole out is
"read the howto".
> Flatbush is litterally destroying his own marketplace for Windows.
> It's obvious he knows nothing about computers, always speaks in
> terms of a brainless user, and he always makes negative posts
> about Linux without any sort of technical backing.
I think the reasoning he's given has been somewhat light, but then not all
of us are gifted with the ability to write, in painful detail, WHY we
dislike something. Effective complaining is an aquired talent.
> He's like Erik Fuckenbush only with a brain.
> He won't go there unless he's certain.
> And never mind if he was full of shit to begin with, it's
> his own viewpoint which drives him.
Who? I'm going to assume this "Erik" (who I think I've herd ABOUT
before...) is some kind of undesirable person. I would love to read this
persons posts. I think I will...
> You will never catch Flatfidder making comparisons between IDE
> drives and SCSI drives like Fukenbush does. Flatboy don't go
> there unless he knows something about it, "in his own mind"...
As far as most end-users are concerned, SCSI data storage mediums, and IDE
storage mediums are on par. The technical details are insignificant toward
the end-user, so why is this bad? As far as I care, the hard drive is
CONNECTED, connection on one just costs me more...
> Erwik on the other hand will just mindlessly post comment about
> anything which comes to his brain, truethful, factual or not...
If this person has a problem, which is reproducible, maybe it should be
addressed, not dismissed as the ravings of an incompetent individual. God
forbid Linux should be improved from the input of the "lesser gifted"
people.
> Flatsixpack is from the Pontiac Wide track generation.
> He is middle aged, loves Windows, and has a fat wide ass.
1. What is wrong with a Pontiac?
2. What is wrong with a Pontiac Wide Track?
3. You WILL be middle aged some day, baring your death.
4. You probably already have a fat ass like most people on this forum. If
not, wait till you qualify for line item number three.
5. Your grasping at straws by making personal remarks.
> You have to have a wide track to park that wide butt in
> to make it home to post this wide bulletins.
Cute...
------------------------------
From: Philo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: I am preparing to teach a Linux class and I am soliciting advice
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:52:08 GMT
I think I'm qualified to answer your question as I am fairly new to
computers in general...
I've had maybe 18 months experience with Windows and perhaps 9 months...
of Linux...
all self taught.
I found the installation to be a bit difficult (started with Red Hat 6)
the whole idea of partioning was not covered well enough for me...
yet plenty of time was spent in the docs explaing how the tab key works
etc.
i think the concept of mounting partitions...and the differences in file
systems is also an important one.
for the life of me ...and as a newbie... i just don't understand all the
debate over window managers...i fail to see any real difference (other
than appearance) between one and the other.
also...why not teach your studends emacs...
to me...it seems that teaching vi would be like teaching edlin
to a dos class.
my 2cents worth
Philo
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Server Saga
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:01:46 GMT
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Then why waste everybody's time with this?
>
> You consider the problems I found a waste of time? No wonder Linux is
> stuck on the desktop sidelines!
I assume you are being deliberately stupid, but I will
answer this for the benefit of other readers.
Considering that you destroyed the machine that we
were trying to help you fix, yes, you wasted our time.
jjs
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat
Subject: Re: I am preparing to teach a Linux class and I am soliciting advice
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:02:01 -0500
Jeff Silverman wrote:
>
> Hi. I am an experienced Linux/UNIX sysadmin and I am getting ready to teach a class
>on Linux for
> the Communications Workers of America and WashTech. I am soliciting comments and
>suggestions from
> people in the Linux community about what I ought to teach.
>
> The students will be adults with some computer experience, most likely in MacOS or
>MS-Windows.
>
> I assume that I have to teach them the basics:
http://www.ugu.com/
http://www.ugu.com/sui/ugu/show?help.beginners
>
> 1) How to login and how to logout
> 2) File manipulation commands: cp, mv, rm, rmdir, ln, cat, more, find, grep,
> sort, uniq. Also I/O redirection and pipelines
> 3) An editor. vi? emacs? Something else? No flame wars, please.
vi. It's simpler to learn.
see if you can locate a vi helpsheet and distribute them in class.
Gould Electronics used to make a REALLY good one when they had a High
Performance Unix Division.
Also, Check this out:
http://ecn.www.ecn.purdue.edu/ECN/Documents/VI/
This isn't so much of a help-sheet as it more of use-oriented documentation.
I'll see if I can find my Gould VI helpsheet and, if so I'll produce a copy of it.
> 4) Minimal sysadmin stuff - assuming they are going to run their own machines. Is
>that a reasonable
> assumption? Account management. Minimal security issues. Networking (that's a
>mouthful).
>
> It gets more complicated... GUIs. Should I teach KDE? gnome? Motif?
>
> How about shell scripting?
>
> What do beginning users need to know?
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> --
> Jeff Silverman, PC guy, Linux wannabe, Java wannabe, Software engineer, husband,
>father etc.
> See my website: http://www.commercialventvac.com/~jeffs
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Multiple standards don't constitute choice
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:03:59 GMT
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> > But you know how to use them all. You figured them all out with no
> > problem. So it really is quite a trivial matter if they don't actually
> > affect your work.
>
> True, but it kinda makes a mockery of a desktop on Linux.
Mockery? hardly.
> With one application it works one way, with another, yet another...
The differences are all but unnoticeable, and will not
hinder anyone of near-normal intelligence.
jjs
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:02:18 GMT
"Lewis Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:94e59a$4ju$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > It also supports less hardware than Win9x.
>
> 2000? Um.. no check again. The 2000 newer compile of the kernel has plenty
> of base hardware support.So far I haven't run into a piece of hardware
that
> hasn' worked on my NT box. At least not that Did work on 9x.
He's right, there are certian TWAIN devices that will NOT function under
Windows 2000. Polaroid's "FunFlash" cameras require "tricks" to function
(which is NOT concidered out of the box support) and Xerox's entire line of
WorkCentre INKJET multifunctions become mere printers under the platform.
> > It also supports less software than Win9x.
>
> Again, no I don't think so. Although I have heard this from some ppl. When
> they name programs that don't work a few have been ones that I've never
> tried, and others are ones that I run under 2000 fine. Turns out they just
> didn't config it right. I've gotten enough stuff to run under 2000 that I
> couldn't get to work under 9x .
No, he's right again. Activision's BattleZone & Battlezone II video games
do not function under, or install (respectively) under Windows 2000. A lot
of Activision titles have trouble installing under Win2k.
> > I've had desktop applications choke during Win2k installs.
> > Some older and newer hardware is not supported by Win2k
> > (voodoo rush, logitech quickcam).
>
> Eh. Again not for me. Also for the stability I get from 2000, it's much
> better than 9x. Also more secure, more network options. etc. I now have
> both 2000 and ME, and for my home machine. I'm still going to be using
> 2000. I might try ME sometime again.. but prolly won't stick with it. I
> would soonet install Wistler than 9x.
Windows 2000 does NOT natively support the afformentioned products. The
Voodoo reference drivers are for Windows 95, 98 and Me, which are NOT 2000.
Windows 2000's PNP hardware manager will NOT recognize the drivers for that
card. The quick-cam does not work under Windows 2000.
But, the stability is ALL there.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why "uptime" is important.
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:05:14 -0500
Donn Miller wrote:
>
> mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I asked what they used and the teller told me "Windows." I dropped my
> > head in disgust.
>
> Hmmmm. Musta been a bad driver in there someplace. Or, maybe it was just
> mis-configured.
Yes...an operating system sold by a corporation in Redmond Washington was installed.
....which constitutes utter mis-configuration.
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:04:21 GMT
"Bill Shine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:OGDa6.156669$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Incompetent NT LoseDOS admin and incompetetant system architects who
> > > choose LoseDOS products....go hand in hand.
> >
> > Of course, then there are idiots like you who would choose a Linux
> > workstation platform as their choice when you knew what would suffer.
> >
> > UNIX on the desktop isn't pretty. If it were, Microsoft wouldn't be in
> > business.
> >
> >
> I use a linux desktop at home, for a single reason -- Linux gives me the
> applications that I want, and
> windows doesn't. I use programming languages
> (C++,Lisp,Prolog,Java,Perl,Python), text editors (Nedit,vi,emacs), and
> databases (mysql,interbase) a lot. I find that between KDE 2.0 , Gnome,
and
> Star Office, I have all the "home office Apps" I could want, and I see no
> reason to spend money on software to replace what I can get for free.
> Anyone saying that UNIX on a desktop isn't pretty hasn't run Gnome or KDE
> 2.0. They provide you with a desktop that is superior to the windows
> desktop. Try it.
Your a programmer genius. When you loose the ability to imagine the perfect
user interface in CODE FORM, let us know. You offically classify as a
"geek", and as such, no longer can be concidered a valid test case for Linux
being bad on the desktop.
If the world ran by people like you, then we would still be using MS-DOS.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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