Linux-Advocacy Digest #674, Volume #31 Tue, 23 Jan 01 11:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe ("Chad Myers")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance (mlw)
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance ("Chad Myers")
Re: Games? Who cares about games? (Darren Winsper)
Re: Games? Who cares about games? (Darren Winsper)
Here's what THIS newbie would like to see ("PM")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:51:34 GMT
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> nuxx wrote:
>
> > W2K Advanced Server is an excellent choice for this application.
>
> it might be made to work, but they could have saved themselves
> a ton of money, and gotten better performance, reliability, and
> remote management capability by using Unix.
Not true on all accounts.
Not only would they have less performance, less reliability, and
less remote management capability (Win2K terminal services rocks),
but they would've locked themselves into only two of the
major formats, rather than all three major formats.
Most likely they're using the best, which is WMT, which isn't
even available on Unix, let alone Linux.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:53:30 GMT
"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > "Jim Richardson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
> >
> > > So to reiterate, Chad lied.
> >
> > But basically, what we've learned here today, according to Jim is:
> >
> > c.) Linux has no bugs and its absurd to assert that notion.
>
> Jim most emphatically did not say that. Your myriad unfounded claims like
that
> is why you have absolutely no credibility here. If by some miracle you *did*
get
> your W2K system to stay up for two months, no one would believe you.
?
Two months is on the low end of the norm for Win2K. The NTSL studdy showed
that the average Win2K uptime for a desktop user, even is 7200 hours or so.
For servers, it's much higher.
You haven't used Win2K have you? Its was more solid than Linux.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:57:28 GMT
"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> > Said Chad Myers in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:22:28
> > [...]
> > >Now you've crossed the line. You've asked T. Max Devlin to produce facts.
> > >Don't you know that that would break his streak of fact-less posts?
> >
> > That it would require intense research in order to point out your
> > baseless presumptions and trivial fabrications is a rather laughable
> > suggestion, Chad.
>
> I recommend against taking the time to research facts for refuting Chad.
Well, no one has been doing that, so it shouldn't be a big loss.
I present fact after fact after fact, and all you guys (Max, you, et al
except for Ghost in the Machine) do is critize, personally attack, and
spew forth baseless supposition.
> I wasted a couple of hours over the weekend looking up Hot 100 uptimes, and
> Chad won't even bother to respond to the post. He much perfers to make up
> his own statistics.
Start a new thread, I told you. This thread is talking about Fortune 500.
Why do you insist on ignoring this? Fortune 500 is, IMHO, as important, or
more important than the Hot 100. I think it's more reasonable to see what
Dell, Compaq, Merril Lynch, Fidelity, and many other huge corporations are
using for their critical web eCommerce infrastructure than what eGroups
uses for their message boards, wouldn't you? In 2 years, who's more likely
to a.) still be in business b.) have the web still be in their primary
business category? Hint: It isn't likely to be eGroups.
These guys are in it for the long haul, not the quick buck, and they've
overwhelmingly chosen IIS and iPlanet and ditched Apache.
There are the facts, why do you continually try to change the subject
or avoid them, without posting any of your own facts to refute them.
Why are you so afraid of the truth, Bobby?
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:58:24 GMT
"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > Driver problems are not the OS's fault unless it was a driver written by MS,
> > and even then it's MS's fault, not the OS.
>
> I speak with the utmost sincerity when I say there's a bright future for you
in
> theology.
Bobby's trying out for the "Factless Post Club" with Max Devlin, MiG, Matt
Templton
(sfcybear) and others.
This is yet another factless post from Bobby D. Bryant.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:00:27 GMT
"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JS PL wrote:
>
> > "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > Driver problems are the OS's fault.
> >
> > In that case I'd like my $50.00 back on my Caldera Open Linux 2.4 because it
> > wouldn't run a Viper v550 out of the box. Wouldn't run my modem or sound
> > card either. Now that you've explained that it's the fault of the OS I'd
> > like my money back.
>
> You should be explaining that to Caldera rather than to us. Of course, they
> might just tell you that you should have read the supported hardware list
> before you and your money were parted.
It's all your fault, JSPL. You were naieve to expect support for major brand
hardware and even more naieve to think that you could expect to find drivers
for Linux on those vendors' sites.
What were you thinking?
I guess the lesson we've learned is, here's yet another shortcoming of
Linux: driver availability.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:23:30 -0500
Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>
> mlw wrote:
> >
> > Name just one product from Microsoft which is stellar enough to warrant a
> > good review.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> >
> Well, the Natural Keyboard (the old one) was quite good.
> Also, the mice are decent, although I prefer Logitech.
> Good is Encarta and Encarta World Atlas. Both could be better,
> but not much.
> Well, that's about it, I think. The rest is crap
I have to disagree. I don't like any of those products. The keyboard is hard to
use, the mouse is a piece of crap, do you remember the add where they said the
new ergonomic mouse was good for right and left handed people. Huh!
Encarta is a piece of crap. Incomplete at best, misleading and wrong in some
places. Britanica may not be as flashy, but is more complete and accurate.
This is a funny piece:
http://essays.chrisdevers.org/Karawynn_--_Adventures_at_Microsoft.html
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:06:08 GMT
"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JS PL wrote:
>
> > Linux is hardly a threat to any market.
>
> Linux is a threat to the desktop market. (Notice that I said "threat", not
> "victor".)
A sad attempt is it, then.
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2675184,00.html
Linux has less than one percent in the Desktop market (See Erik's browser
statistics from a debate on this very topic a few months ago).
The only OS it's a threat to would be OS/2 or Solaris in that market, I suppose.
Do you have any facts to back up your claim it's a threat in the desktop
market? Of course not.
> Meanwhile, Linux is not just a threat, but is actually taking over the server,
> embedded device, and supercomputing markets. Sad to say, but lots of
> (relatively) respectable vendors are going to die before Microsoft does.
Facts? Of course not. Linux has what, 20-ish % in the server market, and that's
even with the liberal estimates. Not much of a threat to anyone but the
Unix vendors that it's taking over. It hasn't touched Windows' market yet.
> > The light at the end of the Linux tunnel is fading fast.
>
> All the evidence indicates that Linux is expanding its share in every market
> where it operates, and is still moving into new markets too. (Heard the
> set-top announcement last week, didja?)
Except for Desktops, among others I'm sure.
Again, any facts? Of course not.
> > It'll be even worse
> > when Whistler (Windows.Net) hits the scene for the desktop market with rock
> > solid stability of NT5.
>
> Yeah, yeah. Then you guys will be here telling us what a piece of cr*p W2K
> was, and that everyone should run out and buy Whistler. After all, my "Hot
> 100" post shows that people are getting a whopping 19.8 days average uptime
for
> W2K in the real-world server role; Whistler should be able to beat that by a
> couple of days, easy.
You've never used Win2K, have you? You'd be hard pressed to crash it.
The only time I've had to reboot win2K is for a software upgrade, and
because I had some faulty nVidia display drivers.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:08:14 GMT
"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > Oh yeah, and by the way, what are they running on the back end that
> > does all the searching?
> >
> > Yeah, that's right. It used to be NT, I think it's partly NT/Solaris
> > now. They might be migrating all to Solaris, but maybe not after
> > the ebay debacle.
>
> Garsh. I almost find myself tempted to ask why they're migrating to Solaris
> rather than to W2K.
Sun probably paid them a bunch to do it.
However, it was supposed to be completed a long time ago, and I don't
recall seeing a PR that herralded it, so perhaps they changed their mind.
They were a Unix-type shop to begin with anyhow, the logical choice for
them was to grow up from Linux and get Solaris. They had NT because one
of the Senior management was smart and decided to use NT on the back end.
It served them well, as you can see.
However, I hope they're careful with the Sun migration as you saw
with eBay what can happen when you rely on Sun for both hardware
and software.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:08:49 GMT
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > Now, (I know you can't answer this, but just think about it), how many
> > articles/100 about Microsoft are favorable, or at least non-bashing?
>
> c't is a mainstream computer magazine, probably #1 in Europe.
> Your theory is full of holes, do you think they can make money
> by being devoted to windows bashing?
>
> > I bet it would be significantly lower, if not zero, than any of the
> > mainstream tech magazines (PC World & Magazine, Wired, etc).
>
> This proves the integrity of c't. They aren't bought by microsoft
> advertising dollars, they tell it like it is, and that's why c't readers
> trust them technically.
>
> > Are there any benchmarks showing Microsoft leading anything?
>
> You mean mindcraft? haven't you heard, that organization has
> been discredited - they were nothing more than a microsoft puppet.
<sigh>
in c't
Please follow the thread, or don't post, sir.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:12:33 GMT
"Stuart Krivis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 05:30:25 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> >> > Linux has support for at least 2 choices of journaling filesystem (reiser
or
> >> > ext3 )
> >>
> >> Neither of which are stable and each have their own caveats. NTFS 5 has
none
> >> of these problems.
> >
> >So say the windows zealots - but of course it's not true.
> >Suse has been shipping lvm and reiser for some time now,
> >and is used in production environments.
>
> Reiserfs is quite stable IME. I've seen it running on several production boxes
> doing web caching. I performs very well.
Well, your personal opinion doesn't count for much. I've not seen Red Hat
attempt to sell it as a solution to their enterprise customers. Right now,
they're still shafting them with ext2fs. Reiser is clearly superior to
ext2fs, why isn't Red Hat selling that to them?
> NTFS seems to be a decent FS. I have no real complaints about it - except for
> the problems with fragmentation.
Which isn't much of a problem, especially on Win2K.
> Oh - there's also that little problem with the MFT growing and growing and...
Which has never been a problem except in lab tests. The 4 million file bug
was discovered by a guy who wrote a program to test it. It's never been
a problem in the Real World. Anyhow, it was fixed in NT 4 SP4 and isn't
an issue AT ALL now.
> And I have seen systems get hosed when they're not shut down correctly.
I've never seen that, well not after NT4 SP3 anyhow. It's certainly not
a problem on Win2K. Have you ever shut down a Linux box with ext2fs
incorrectly? God help you. You have a 90% chance of completely hosing
your fs. Not much of an enterprise file system IYAM.
>
> Nothing is perfect in this world. However, I tend to be more impressed with
unix
> solutions than with Windows ones. MS just seems to have a knack of making more
> work for Administrators. :-)
Well, then you aren't very educated on the MS front then. Perhaps you should
know
what you're talking about before making conclusions.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:15:10 GMT
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > Please show me _AN_ article in c't that is favorable to Microsoft.
>
> What product is worthy of any favorable press? Seriously, what product could a
> reporter write about in mostly favorable terms?
>
> Office? No.
> 98? No.
> NT? No.
> 2K? No.
> Bob? No.
> Dogs? No.
Office2K, certainly so. And it has been herralded by almost every product
review outfit. I defy you to show me a product review of Office2K that
wasn't favorable, if not stellar.
Windows 2000 is the same. It's stable, scalable way more than any other
OS it competes with out there, it sets performance and scalability records
all the time (tpc.org), and it has a huge application base, more so than
any other OS in its class. If you're arguing that Linux is better, that's
laughable at best.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:25:01 +0000
Kevin Ford wrote:
> Perry Pip once wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:28:55 +0000,
>> Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Pete Goodwin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I play games on my computer. I always have. I've never owned a console,
>>>> I think a PC does better graphics than a console.
>>>
>>> I have to agree with Pete here. After all, how many consoles do
>>> graphics at 1024*768? And how many can perform anti-aliasing at that
>>> resolution?
>>>
>>
>
> Consoles run on TV's, which can't do that resolution.
Which is my point.
> But the AA is nice
> on my Dreamcast.....
Except Voodoo5 will do the higher resolution *and* FSAA.
> I wouldn't buy anything but GeForce these days.
What about the Radeon?
> The VSA100 was out of date
> by the time it hit the shelves. The 6000 is only just about adequate for
> the average machine (if it fits!) by which I mean ~600Mhz.
BS. The V5 5500 would be beaten by the GeForce2, but only at low
resolutions. Its a shame the HSR drivers only saw the light of day in a
very early pre-beta state.
> Voodoo still
> relies too heavily on the processor.
And the GF2 is far too bandwidth limited.
> The drivers are close source because parts of the OpenGL stuff is licensed
> from SGI.
Wrong. And employee at SGI who is a member of the OpenGL board
dispelled that myth.
> I'm using the Linux drivers right now.... if I upgrade most of my system I
> would expect to maybe have to reinstall the drivers.... but the fact is I
> don't... so long as I avoid the packages that it overwrites. Plus it only
> takes 2 minutes anyway.
The folks working on XFree packages in Debian are trying to prevent this
sort of problem using a virual package or somesuch.
> better than calling yourself one and having a crap card / drivers.
The Voodoo5 is not crap, but its XFree drivers are shite.
------------------------------
From: Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:26:15 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Pete Goodwin wrote:
>>
>> Same here. In fact, I have Windows for the sole reason of games. If
>> all my games were available for Linux, I'd dump Windows in an instant
>> (As soon as I got a GeForce2 since Voodoo5 drivers for Linux are
>
> crap).
>
> If all you want is games, get a play station II. It costs less than a
> desktop OS, the games and graphics are better, and it crashes less than
> win.
Show me No One Lives Forver, UT, Quake 3, Hitman, TOCA2 and most all
RTS/TBS games for the PS2.
Sorry, but if you like the games I do, the PS 2 is shite.
------------------------------
From: "PM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat
Subject: Here's what THIS newbie would like to see
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:38:50 GMT
What you teach depends on just how much time you have. For myself, I'm more
interested in finding out WHAT I need to learn, not so much the details on a
specific program. A list of important progs and config files with a short
description of what they're for would go a LOOONG way in getting a newbie
started. Remember the parable about giving someone a fish? Here's an example
whatis - tells you what something does e.g. whatis ppp
apropos - Lists files that pertain to a topic e.g. apropos ppp
man - masochists manual reader for what apropos shows you
locate - find out where that pesky file actually is
chown - change ownership of files e.g. chown nobody.nobody *
chmod - change what people are allowed to do with a file e.g. chmod 777
mywebpage.html
pico - simple command line editor
vi - the masochists dream text editor
linuxconf - detailed configuration of your linux from menus
setup - configure some basic OS functions and set startup programs
Xconfigurator - configure xwindows to your hardware
kernalcfg - set up loadable modules (network cards etc)
netcfg - configure your network
<add mail/news setup here - I still haven't gotten them to work - I use my
windoze box>.
You'll definately want to go over installing RPMs (and other vendor equivs)
as well as the basics of how to compile (perhaps a list of packages required
to enable compiling - thats another thing I've had zero luck with - I just
don't know WHAT I have to have. libc,glibc what the hell is the difference
and which do I need?)
And don't forget to tell people how to update things like the locate
database (locate -u). I still don't know if you need to do that with man or
apropos...
RTFM is fine and I try to, but if I don't know it exists I can't really read
up on it can I.
And for you *nix grognards out there, vi is NOT easy. It seems a lot like
dos's edlin to me... (hella more powerful I agree, but more cryptic and and
just as conceptually unfriendly!)
Oh and someone please invent a "man -translatethejargonintoenglishplease"
------------------------------
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