Linux-Advocacy Digest #712, Volume #31 Wed, 24 Jan 01 20:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Windows 2000 ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe ("nuxx")
Re: New Microsoft Ad :-) (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Poor Linux (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistent. (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: VMWare? (Nigel)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistent. (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe ("nuxx")
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe ("nuxx")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant (Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe ("nuxx")
Re: New Microsoft Ad :-) (Giuliano Colla)
Re: The *BEST* advertising! (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Why "uptime" is important. ("Keldon Warlord 2000")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source (Ed Allen)
Re: NT is Most Vulnerable Server Software ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: NT is Most Vulnerable Server Software ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.microsoft.sucks
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:30:56 -0500
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> Kyle Jacobs wrote:
> >
> > This is what you get for running Windows 9x. If you had any expierence in
> > the enterprise market (which I seriously doubt you do) then you would know
> > why Linux is unfeasable as a workstation platform.
>
> A bold assertion. Care to explain it? What kind of workstation?
> Business? Scientific? Graphic? Network analysis workstation?
>
> > You would also know why
> > Windows NT & 2000 is the prefered enviroment under such areas.
>
> Preferred by whom?
Microshaft stockholders.
>
> > You would also know that Windows 9x is crap, always has been, probably
> > always will be. Try Me, you have nothing (but money, and your time) to
> > loose.
>
> I agree, except don't bother with ME -- old technology.
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Flipping the Bozo bit at 400 MHz
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:31:39 -0500
Steve Mading wrote:
>
> T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Said Steve Mading in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 23 Jan 2001 19:42:17 GMT;
> :>
> :>Actually, I think the reason for it is that the only reason Windows
> :>is popular at all is because of all the applications that are only
> :>released for Windows and nothing else, not because the OS itself is
> :>all that spectacular. Therefore, porting the OS to other platforms
> :>would be usless unless MS could get all the third-party application
> :>developers to make all of their software for non-intel platforms
> :>also. If ONLY Windows and maybe Office ran on platform Foo, but
> :>nothing else did, nobody would want it. MS discovered this, and stopped
> :>trying to support other platforms. Of course they falsely attributed
> :>this to people being uninterested in other platforms, when in fact
> :>they *would* be interested if the Windows world hadn't been
> :>monoplatform for so long that all the app developers forgot how to
> :>program cross-platform code. (Consider how Corel ported WP 2000
> :>to Linux - by using Wine instead of actually doing a real port.)
> :>
>
> : Coincidentally, immediately after Microsoft bought a big stake in the
> : company, IIRC.
>
> I got a copy of Corel WP 2000 for Linux *before* MS bought that
> large sum of stock in Corel.
Was it a native port, or something to run on Wine?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "nuxx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:37:16 +0800
>
> ...assuming you're in the same room, or even the same
> state as the server in question...
eh? You can stop and start any service on any server, domain wide, using
svrmgr.exe.
nuxx
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Microsoft Ad :-)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:37:50 GMT
ono wrote:
>
> > Still, borrow C++ Builder and try my simple scenario, Doctor Octopus.
> You should probably gett a better dev. environment. (like Visual Studio)
I already have Visual Studio. I use it in my home business. It is good,
even if a little clunky, and not a very good implementation of C++.
We use Borland C++ Builder at work, partly because our project was
started in Borland C++ 4, and partly because some guys thought
it was more like Visual Basic. It works, and has a great implementation
of C++ ... plus libraries written in Pascal and proprietary keywords
to let C++ fit it in. Yeesh. And it is a leaky thing.
Some things are more convenient in Builder, some things are more
convenient in Visual C++. I hope .NET doesn't screw it all to
hell.
If I had my way, we'd forsake these proprietary beasts and use
gcc and GTK/Gnome.
Chris
--
Flipping the Bozo bit at 400 MHz
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Poor Linux
Date: 24 Jan 2001 16:52:55 -0700
"Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I don't think you have a clue how Windows 2000 deals with virtual memory.
> Windows 2000 Professional doesn't use "sleep" (to put it into UNIX
> terminology) definitions to transfer programs, it uses the UI focus to
> denote priority, or when changed to "background process" priority mode, uses
> the old style of "load first" to load applications into memory, in priority
> going to real, and then virtual.
>
> Pity Win2k doesn't have a "sleep timer".
[snip]
> Linux does not have the ability to auto-reneice applications based upon
> activity. My GIMP process tree doesn't get priority level neicing when
> doing a complicated math operation while the rest of XFree86 sits idle. It
> gets what it was started at (0) and shares resources with all my other
> programs running at the time.
The linux scheduler gives CPU time to the processes that need it.
Look at the source in kernel/sched.c if you're curious (where's the
source for W2k's scheduler?). Each process has a time to live and
receives as much CPU time as it needs before a slice is given to
something else that *needs* it. Each program's nice value is taken
into account, but not set in stone. I suspect you're refering to this
number when you speak about the priority (0) an application is using.
Linux 2.2 and better also give you the ability to plug in different
schedulers if you want to. Linux-rt gives the kernel a real-time
priority that preempts everything else in the regular kernel.
The swapper (files in mm/) tries to keep running applications
satisfied with their memory requirements.
A combination of all the above give good multitasking.
> So rather than shooting your mouth off about a technology you clearly know
> nothing about (Windows), I suggest you avoid from future embarrassment.
The same could be said about your knowledge of Linux.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistent.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:53:43 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:20:08 -0000
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On 23 Jan 2001 16:32:47 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Said Kyle Jacobs in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:35:45
>>> [...]
>>>>I think distributing PDF format files is an excelent idea. Even if
>>>>it does max bandwidth. [...]
>>
>>> PDF files are generally much smaller than their Word document
>>> counterpart.
>>
>>In this vein, guess what happens to a W2K machine when you use office2000
>>to read a document you converted in staroffice from .rtf to .doc?
>
> Now, why exactly would you bother?
>
>>
>>Thats right kids, it locks up solid. Powercycle nessesary.
>>
>>What was it exactly that windows does well again?
>[deletia]
>
> I'll have to try that trick now... '-)
For some reason, I was trying to read a something.doc file on a floppy,
which was part of some documentation for a program -- and it wouldn't open.
Turns out it was a TEXT file. I could open it in Wordpad, but
one can forget about double-clicking it.
I'll reiterate yttrx's question; about the only anaswer I can come
up with is "make money for Microsoft". :-)
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 1d:09h:21m actually running Linux.
This is the best part of the message.
------------------------------
From: Nigel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: VMWare?
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:55:22 +0000
>
> I'll admit, VMWare sounds cool, though. I just wish it were freeware.
>
You could always be brave and give plex86 a try (previously known as
freemware). This is going to be an open-source equivalent of vmware. It can
already run win9x and NT4 - check it out at www.plex86.org
You could also look for the old Bochs PC emulator and install windows on
this (runs slow though as emulates the CPU in C code unlike plex86 which
runs most instructions on the native CPU).
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistent.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:54:42 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:58:25 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Said . in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 23 Jan 2001 16:32:47 GMT;
>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Said Kyle Jacobs in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:35:45
>>> [...]
>>>>I think distributing PDF format files is an excelent idea. Even if
>>>>it does max bandwidth. [...]
>>
>>> PDF files are generally much smaller than their Word document
>>> counterpart.
>>
>>In this vein, guess what happens to a W2K machine when you use office2000
>>to read a document you converted in staroffice from .rtf to .doc?
>>
>>Thats right kids, it locks up solid. Powercycle nessesary.
>>
>>What was it exactly that windows does well again?
>
>Pretending to be a lousy OS, obviously.
"Pretending"? :-)
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 1d:10h:26m actually running Linux.
This space for rent.
------------------------------
From: "nuxx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:57:57 +0800
"Peter K�hlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> nuxx wrote:
> > You can do most admin tasks in a Telnet session to a W2k server. Use
the
> > supplied support tools, W2k server resource kit utilities and WSH
(Windows
> > 2000 Server Resource Kit should be required reading for any serious W2k
> > administrator).
>
> Well, if someone is after you as administrator, he just telnet's to that
> W2k-machine and simply stops at the login. Does nothing, nada.
> POOF, no more telnet to that machine.
> Now, isn't that a fine example of good, debugged MS-Code?
> And, I don't think that this was one of the 60k "issues"
Bullshit.
nuxx
------------------------------
From: "nuxx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:06:58 +0800
> >
> > I'm not trying to argue that W2k is as good as Unix for remote admin
from
> > the CLI, because it isn't by a fair distance
>
> I strongly disagree - there is NOTHING you cannot remotely administer on a
> W2K box. Nothing. Period.
>
I agree with your point but I was talking about the CLI specifically.
> . MS have recognised this as a
> > serious weakness (finally) and are working towards fixing it. I believe
> > that you will be able to unload the GUI in Whistler(?) so they are
> hopefully
> > improving the CLI.
>
> I don't really care if they do anything with the CLI - they could get rid
of
> it as far as I'm concerned.
>
I like both :-) Depends on the task.
nuxx
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:14:33 +0100
Steve Mading wrote:
>
> Of course, this means Aaron is contributing false figures to website
> logs at those sites he visits, and thereby helping the myth that Linux
> doesn't exist on the desktop. That's why I refuse to do such a thing.
I think, a website which does not take into account those "other" operating
systems is NOT worth my attention. If they want to sell something to me,
bad luck (for them, I will be elsewhere). It's not me, who has to adapt,
it's them.
Fuck every page which will not work with a linux-browser.
------------------------------
From: "nuxx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:16:51 +0800
"Peter K�hlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> nuxx wrote:
> > You can do most admin tasks in a Telnet session to a W2k server. Use
the
> > supplied support tools, W2k server resource kit utilities and WSH
(Windows
> > 2000 Server Resource Kit should be required reading for any serious W2k
> > administrator).
>
> Well, if someone is after you as administrator, he just telnet's to that
> W2k-machine and simply stops at the login. Does nothing, nada.
> POOF, no more telnet to that machine.
> Now, isn't that a fine example of good, debugged MS-Code?
> And, I don't think that this was one of the 60k "issues"
Bullshit. Check your authentication method.
nuxx
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Microsoft Ad :-)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:23:34 GMT
ono wrote:
>
> > "The tests that produced the greatest failure rates are the random Win32
> > message tests. In the normal course of events, these messages are
> > produced by the kernel and sent to an application program. It is
> > unlikely (though not impossible) that the kernel would send messages
> > with invalid values. Still, these tests are interesting for two reasons.
> > First, they demonstrate the vulnerability of this interface. Any
> > application program can send messages to any other application program.
> > There is nothing in the Win32 interface that provides any type of
> > protection. Modern operation systems should provide more durable
> > firewalls."
>
> We're talking about os failures here, not about badly written applications.
> btw: The person who made those tests is full of it!
I saw once in a factory a big poster warning:
BEFORE ACTIVATING THE TONGUE MAKE SURE THAT THE BRAIN IS CONNECTED!
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: The *BEST* advertising!
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:26:13 GMT
ono wrote:
>
> > It's pretty clear that flatfish is beside himself because Linux
> > is threatening windows - why this should bother anyboy is not clear,
> > unless they own ms stock, or getting paid to poison usenet forums.
> It bothers me because there are always 'managers' asking us why we build
> industrial robots using w2k instead of linux. Of course they heard that
> linux is free and stable where w2k is too expensive and unreliable.
> We mostly respond that it is theoretically possible but if they want to find
> out, they have to hire new programmers.
Yes, competent programmers. They badly need them, I understand.
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Why "uptime" is important.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:35:03 -0800
"Martin Eden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:pFDb6.4793$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > he wasn't asking for "pretty stuff", he was asking for a well-formed
site.
> >
> > retina burn doesn't give you return visitors...I know this for a fact.
;-)
>
> Well perhaps he could put up some anime and Dungeons and Dragons graphics
> for you. Some cheesy midi files attached and running ad nauseum in the
> background would probably suit the likes of you as well.
>
> Judging from your own site, (and I have been there, unfortunately): I
think
> it's safe to say that you are not in any way qualified to play the role of
> "art critic".
>
> Just my opinion, but I thought the site was fine. A bad review from "The
> Future Conan" notwithstanding. lol.
>
>
and where is YOUR website, jackass?
--
"One by one the Penguins steal my sanity." (found printed on a T-shirt)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:00:33 GMT
In article <94n73s$5oe$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Ayende Rahien <Please@don't.spam> wrote:
>
>"Ed Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> --
>> FYI. When you do type "make" on the Windows NT source tree, it takes
>almost
>> 38 hours for it to complete on a 4-way 400 Mhz PII System, as opposed to
>> about 5 minutes on Linux. Linux is not Doomed!!!!!! -- Jeff Merkey
>> http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999/1999week26/0787.html
>
>Iterensting, exactly what are you compiling?
>The whole OS in NT case and just the kernel in Linux case?
>
>
I do not know what you are trying to imply.
Linux does not include the GUI as part of the OS.
Are you trying to claim that all the daemons, services in NT,
are considered part of the OS ?
I recall hearing 30 million lines of NT5 code as opposed to 3047024
in the 2.4 kernel. That includes the code for all supported CPU
types.
I think that demonstrates why putting the GUI into the OS was a
mistake.
--
FYI. When you do type "make" on the Windows NT source tree, it takes almost
38 hours for it to complete on a 4-way 400 Mhz PII System, as opposed to
about 5 minutes on Linux. Linux is not Doomed!!!!!! -- Jeff Merkey
http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999/1999week26/0787.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: NT is Most Vulnerable Server Software
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:30:57 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Said Roy.Culley in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:56:56
>>
>>Here I run nmap telling it to spoof the source address:
>>
>>nmap -S 127.0.0.1 192.169.5.5
>>Starting nmap V. 2.53 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( www.insecure.org/nmap/
>>) WARNING: If -S is being used to fake your source address, you may
>>also have to use -e <iface> and -P0 . If you are using it to specify
>>your real source address, you can ignore this warning. WARNING: -S
>>will not affect the source address used in a connect() scan. Use -sS
>>or another raw scan if you want to use the specified source address
>>for the port scanning stage of nmap
>>
>>This is what tcpdump showed on the subnet:
>>
>>tcpdump -n -i eth0 host 192.168.5.5
>>User level filter, protocol ALL, datagram packet socket
>>tcpdump: listening on eth0
>>12:54:23.326627 > 127.0.0.1 > 192.168.5.5: icmp: echo request
>>12:54:23.334712 > 127.0.0.1.33992 > 192.168.5.5.www: . 2142240771:2142240771(0) ack
>2456394143 win 4096
>>
>>What were you saying again?
>
> That 127.0.0.1 and 0.0.0.0 are not valid destination addresses for any
> packet ever found on a wire. You may notice that, while your
> nmap/tcpdump experiment works quite well, the traffic is rather
> worthless, since 192.168.5.5 will NEVER be able to respond to you.
Have you never heard of DoS attacks whereby you flood a host with icmp,
tcp syn, etc? To avoid detection you use random source addresses. You
said that 127.0.0.1 would never be seen on the wire. I have proved you
wrong. Why don't you read Stevens' book AND actually try the examples
he gives throughout the book. You might actually learn something. This
method has been used to cripple a host so that an attacker may take
over the address of the host for whatever evil purpose they have in
mind. Not easy to do but has been well documented. From other threads
you rant in it is clear you are a Jack of all trades but master of
none.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: NT is Most Vulnerable Server Software
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:35:12 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes, I have beyond your help since four or five years ago, at least.
> Outside of the simian chest-beating, though, I do appreciate your
> attempts. I did warn you I already knew this stuff.
>
As they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It is clear you
have read a little but have not implemented any of it. Is it no
wonder that the teaching profession has such a bad name these days
especially in your neck of the woods. Try making your classes a bit
more practical. Then the teacher may learn something.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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