Linux-Advocacy Digest #339, Volume #32 Tue, 20 Feb 01 01:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux (Tim Hanson)
Re: Joke of the day - from Microsoft (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Linux and QA (Fred K Ollinger)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Tim Hanson)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux and QA (Fred K Ollinger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 00:09:44 -0500
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
> CR Lyttle ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> : Linux has replaced the Colt as the great equalizer. Anyone can use Linux
> : and free software. That puts you on equal standing with the government.
> : I would like to point out that the oppressive governments in Poland, the
> : USSR, and East Germany weren't overthrown with guns, but with
> : typewriters and xerox machines. The government used them, but the people
> : did too.
>
> The Printer is mightier than the UZI.
>
> Actually, what caused the collapse of the CCCP wasn't the information thingy,
Minor note.
SSSR ( C = Russian S; P = Russian R (taken from Greek "rho")
Sovietskii Soyuz Sotsialistikix Respublikax
Soviet Union of Socialist Republics.
> though it helped. What actually did them in was that the Soviet empire's oil
> production peak in 1988 and start of decline fucked up the economy behind the
> iron curtain. We got with the Saudis to keep oil prices low to deprive the
> Soviets of hard currency while spending massive money on military hardware.
>
Good plan :-)
> Bush v.1.0, being both a CIA director and an oilman, had to know that the
> Soviet oil peak would happen around when it did. With our military buildup
> forcing the Soviets to waste their hard currency in kind pinned them to the
> wall, so it was a matter of time for the oil peak to finish off the Soviet
> government.
>
> We know from history that oil peaks disrupt economies. In 1970, the Lower 48
Interesting...can you explain the mechanism/usual chain of events?
I'm curious.
> peaked, allowing OPEC to pull off that embargo fun n' games. So, the Cold War
> strategy was to find out when the Soviets would max out oil production and pin
> them to the wall as we did. We could not switch to alternatives (such as coat
> the Dakotas with windmills) becuse that would tip off the Soviets and prolong
> the Cold War.
>
> Brilliant as the strategy was, it is not without fallout later. Since we
> didn't switch to alternatives, we as a whole planet are vunerable when global
> production peaks, as it will sooner or later. The irony could end up being
> that nuclear war is unwinnable - even if no missiles are ever launched.
>
> --
> FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
> The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
> The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 05:11:26 GMT
Bob Hauck wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 00:13:14 GMT, Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > It would come across to consumers bundled with as much luggage as
> > possible, grouping open sourcers with crackers, music thieves, movie
> > pirates, et al. Don't underestimate the effect of spin.
>
> One of these days consumers will wake up and realize that the term
> "piracy" has been redefined to include _them_ and their making of music
> compilations, "lending" software to their friends, purchasing
> grey-market anime, etc. What'll you suppose will happen then?
>
> As for Allchin's comments, I think it will take an awful lot of spin to
> keep people from seeing right through them. They are so transparently
> self-serving that even your average American can see what's up. Allchin
> and his company hold their customers in contempt and the customers are
> starting to realize that. A good dose of "content control" from .NET
> ought to seal the deal.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
I do hope you're right. My opinion is no doubt colored by where I live,
i.e., Seattle. Around here Gates could be caught murdering the Mayor in
a fight over their kiddie porn collections and both Senators plus both
daily newspapers would find a way to blame someone else. This is an
area which has been considerably enriched by Microsoft money.
--
An architect's first work is apt to be spare and clean. He
knows he doesn't know what he's doing, so he does it carefully and with
great restraint.
As he designs the first work, frill after frill and
embellishment after embellishment occur to him. These get stored away
to be used "next time". Sooner or later the first system is finished,
and the architect, with firm confidence and a demonstrated mastery of
that class of systems, is ready to build a second system.
This second is the most dangerous system a man ever designs.
When he does his third and later ones, his prior experiences will
confirm each other as to the general characteristics of such systems,
and their differences will identify those parts of his experience that
are particular and not generalizable.
The general tendency is to over-design the second system, using
all the ideas and frills that were cautiously sidetracked on the first
one. The result, as Ovid says, is a "big pile".
-- Frederick Brooks, "The Mythical Man Month"
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Joke of the day - from Microsoft
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 00:11:38 -0500
mlw wrote:
>
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> >
> > mlw wrote:
> > >
> > > Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just noting the hypocrisy of the Demoncrook party, that's all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How does this have anything to do with Hypocrisy? GW is an idiot, in and
>of
> > > > > > > himself. It is not hypocrisy to state the truth. GW would be an idiot if
>he was
> > > > > > > a democrat. I did not mention party affiliation along with his idiocy,
>which
> > > > > > > are independent of one another.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let's not forget Klinton selling Nuclear warhead plans to the Chinese
> > > > > > for campaign contributions for the 1996 election.
> > > > >
> > > > > How about this, GW is an idiot in and of himself, which has nothing to do
>with
> > > > > President Clinton.
> > > >
> > > > Hasn't sold nuclear warhead plans to people threatening to level Los Angleles.
> > > >
> > > > Or is that considered a "smart move" for a Rhodes Scholar?
> > >
> > > AFAIK he has never sold "warheads" there are some issues with technology for
> > > rockets, but no one has ever claimed he has sold warheads.
> >
> [snip]
>
> GW is still an idiot.
So, you conced that Gore and Klinton are either both idiots
as well, or traitors.
thank you
> --
> http://www.mohawksoft.com
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 00:14:47 -0500
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
> Charlie Ebert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> : In article <Ol0k6.299372$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Weevil wrote:
>
> : >"Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people
> : >don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. As long as they are
> : >going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted,
> : >and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next
> : >decade."
> : > - Bill Gates
>
> : Another inference to .NET
>
> One minor problem. People in China for the most part don't hardly have any
> money. Those computers shipping are going to mostly businesses with ultrathin
> profit margins, and thus are forced to use warez.
Doesn't matter.
China has no copyright laws...and there isn't a damn thing that
Gates can do about it.
>
> A few years ago, I predicted that China will never be a huge consumer market
> when a fuckwitted bitch with a Master Bullshit Artist degree asked me about
> the global mail operation at the annex where I worked. I was right. I pissed
> her off pretty bad when I pointed out that the Chinese version of Joe Average
> simply doesn't have money to blow on Victoria's Secret lingerie.
true.
>
> The McDonald's execs thought they were cute when they opened 100 stores all
> over Asia in "emerging markets" and lost their shirt.
There are emerging markets...just not in China.
Malaysia and Thailand...now they're worth paying attention to.
>
> During the NAFTA debate, I made the prediction that consumer goods would be
> slow sellers under the border. Sure as shit, I was right.
yup
>
> Bill Gates is forgetting the first law of economics:
>
> You can't sell product to people without money.
Woooooo hoo!
:-)
>
> That one simple law of nature explains why you don't see a Macy's in a town of
> trailer parks. Same with the lack of grocery supermarkets in projects. Any MBA
> ignoring that law does so at his or her own economic peril. That law has been
> time tested by all the examples above and it always works. If Bill Gates
> thinks that the Chinese people can pay up for software when they have to take
> out a loan on a used bicycle, he is utterly deluded.
>
> Just becuse the non-market is halfway around the world doesn't mean the laws
> of nature are repealed. The McMBAs forgot that fact when they set up stores
> selling burgers that cost a worker TWO DAYS wages for one sandwich.
Should have used local labor to produce the patties locally, rather
than shipping from the US.
>
> My prediction is that Bill Gates won't be able to get people in China to pay
> up for the software. They'll just use warez or Linux. Sorry Bill, you can't
> repeal natural laws.
>
> --
> FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
> The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
> The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 00:16:55 -0500
mlw wrote:
>
> Fred K Ollinger wrote:
> >
> > Tom Elam ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > : On 18 Feb 2001 17:13:54 GMT, Tom Elam wrote this reply to John Jensen
> > : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > : >At the same time we need to make a buck, we need to live, we need a faster
> > : >car. What we do is tie a string, or anchor in place, the bits we put into
> > : >the digital world. We decide not to let them stray too far. We apply a
> > : >license.
> >
> > I work in science. My data is 'given away' too. the gov't pays for this.
>
> I find this an amazing paradox (irony) of the "intellectual property" age. The
> greatest discoveries and theories are free for all to read, use, and
> understand. While minute and meaningless techniques which require little or no
> inventiveness or intelligence are subject to vigorous patents.
>
Welcome to a country where the patent office believes that the normal
rules of patent-law are suspended when it comes to computers.
There is an "obvious" clause. If you design something that is "obvious",
you're not supposed to get a patent for it.
> --
> http://www.mohawksoft.com
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fred K Ollinger)
Subject: Re: Linux and QA
Date: 20 Feb 2001 05:17:44 GMT
Pete Goodwin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
: <96mfvi$5fe$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
: >And I have never had a significant problem with *ANY* mandrake distro
: >since v. 6.1. Pete's experience with Mandrake is not the norm as
: >normal people don't go out of their way to try and break an OS.
: I don't consider having to manually configure a system with a supported
: sound card, a network card etc. breaking an OS or going out of my way to do
: the same.
I don't consider having to manually configure anything to be indicative
of a broken OS, either. I _like_ manual configuration b/c I learn something.
I feel like I'm more in control. When I get things where I want them, I
know I can get them back in a pinch--a reinstall or a HD crash, or the like.
I _learn_ something which is most important. If you don't like spending
time to learn and to be in control, linux might not be the best system for
you. I suggest iMac. Note, I was a proud mac user for years until I realized
that I didn't hate MS. I was against closed source idea, I wanted to be free.
: >There is a reason that Mandrake won best in show at LinuxWorld last
: >year. There is a reason why Mandrake was the #1 selling linux
: >distribution in the world in December with 28% marketshare.
: >
: >Why bash a distribution based on the say-so of a disingenuous troll?
: Oh you don't take just my word for it, see below.
I use Mandrake 7, but to be honest, it is _not_ for developers. Compiler is
broken, I tried it myself. Of course, I just recompiled my source, but still
I thought that I'd messed things up, and I want to be a developer so that's not
good. I had decent exp w/ mandrake 7, but my partner had troubles, she's
been discouraged, poor girl. I got mandrake b/c it was hyped well. I
really enjoyed it in the beginning, but I use debian at work b/c of apt-get
which I like, but it seems that rpm is catching up, which to me is a good
thing. Competition is good. Probably put debian on at home sometime, no
internet connection, though so I'll wait for the 2.4 kernel.
Fred
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 05:25:13 GMT
John Rudd wrote:
>
> Ziya Oz wrote:
> >
> > Nick Condon wrote:
> >
> > >>> When you think of "free" as it relates to free software, think free
> > >>> speech, not free beer.
> > >>
> > >> Right. I'm thinking "free" software and it ain't GPL.
> > >
> > > So what *do* you mean by "free software"? IE5?
> >
> > Software that comes unattached, without conditions, strings and
> > dependencies...as in "free" and not GPLed.
> >
>
> A) under that definition, no one has any form of freedom. We all have
> conditions and dependancies placed up on us, such as not shouting fire in a
> crowded room that is not in fact on fire, rules of decency, etc.
>
> B) What many people don't realize about free software (even many free
> software advocates) is that "freedom" in free software isn't about freedom
> for developers and users. Sure, it makes many things more liberated for
> them (end users are free to modify it, free to redistribute it, etc.), but
> really that's not whose freedom is being talked about.
>
> Freedom is being granted to the software itself. It makes the software its
> own entity that cannot be "enslaved" by future developers. Developers are
> not being granded blank-check freedom (freedom to do whatever they want
> with it, freedom to redistribute the code under a non-GPL license, etc.).
> Instead, the code has been liberated from its chains to those who developed
> the code.
>
> That is, ofcourse, philosophical as opposed to concrete. What does it mean
> for a non-concious being to have rights and freedoms? The software
> certainly can't decide for itself that it does or doesn't want to be open
> or propietary, but it does embody the concept that outside beings may not
> "tell" the software whether or not it will be free or enslaved. That is
> the underlying meme and goal of "free software". It's not granting freedom
> to the developer(s), nor freedom to the users, but freedom to the software
> itself.
>
> So, when you say "without strings or conditions", let me put it to you this
> way: Is your SO a free and liberated person? Yet, you do have strings and
> conditions in your relationship with them, yes? If you violate the terms
> of the relationship, you cannot stop them from leaving you (without doing
> something illegal like stalking or killing them), right? You may not force
> them to do things that they do not decide to submit to for themselves,
> right?
>
> Linux is "free" in the same sense that your SO is free. Free to not be
> dictated to by you. And as long as a developer or user treats Linux the
> way Linux wants to be treated (ie. within the confines of the GPL), then
> everything is okay ... just like you have to treat your SO the way they
> want to be treated (ie. within the confines of your relationship), or
> they'll leave you.
Let's also not forget to mention that applications developed for Linux,
using the command line or GNOME or KDE, need NOT be free or tied to the
GPL. All of the libraries an applications programmer would use as well
as gcc itself are covered under the LGPL, a considerably less
restrictive license.
--
An architect's first work is apt to be spare and clean. He
knows he doesn't know what he's doing, so he does it carefully and with
great restraint.
As he designs the first work, frill after frill and
embellishment after embellishment occur to him. These get stored away
to be used "next time". Sooner or later the first system is finished,
and the architect, with firm confidence and a demonstrated mastery of
that class of systems, is ready to build a second system.
This second is the most dangerous system a man ever designs.
When he does his third and later ones, his prior experiences will
confirm each other as to the general characteristics of such systems,
and their differences will identify those parts of his experience that
are particular and not generalizable.
The general tendency is to over-design the second system, using
all the ideas and frills that were cautiously sidetracked on the first
one. The result, as Ovid says, is a "big pile".
-- Frederick Brooks, "The Mythical Man Month"
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 01:41:49 +0200
"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ayende Rahien) wrote in
> <96rauj$k56$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >
> >"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ziya Oz) wrote in
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >>
> >> >Salvador Peralta wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>>> GPL'ing your code stops others from claiming rights to it - would
> >> >>>> you want someone to claim the rights to something you have given
> >> >>>> away
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The operative phrase here: "given away."
> >> >>
> >> >> Your ignorance of the word "free" as it relates to software is
> >> >> showing.
> >> >
> >> >Funny, I didn't use the word "free".
> >> >
> >> >(But I guess this gives you a chance to repeat that patently false OS
> >> >mantra below.)
> >> >
> >> >> The GPL has nothing to do with giving away software.
> >> >
> >> >Exactly, my point. Thank you. "GPL has nothing to do with giving away
> >> >software," which happens to be the focus of my assertion.
> >> >
> >> >> When you think of "free" as it relates to free software, think free
> >> >> speech, not free beer.
> >> >
> >> >Right. I'm thinking "free" software and it ain't GPL.
> >>
> >> So what *do* you mean by "free software"? IE5?
> >>
> >> Just asking.
> >
> >According to convetion, I would assume that he, like most people, think
> >that about free software as *free*.
> >IE, cost no money.
> >YMMV, but that is what I think when I see the word free.
>
> The English language has 2 meanings for the word "free". Free software, as
> described by the GPL, is a matter of liberty not price. Think "free
> country" not "free lunch".
>
> Take a look at the Free Software Definition:
> http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
I know, but my language takes much more reasonable approach on most levels,
there are two words for free (no money) & free (liberty).
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fred K Ollinger)
Subject: Re: Linux and QA
Date: 20 Feb 2001 05:28:15 GMT
Pete Goodwin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in <96p5go$46j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
: >So do many people. Frequent crashnig causes no end of problems.
: Yes I know. Why do you think I'm trying Linux? I've just ordered SuSE 7.1,
: let's see how I get on with that.
Please don't do that! You had troubles all ready. Go back to windows.
this is not to be mean, but to help you. If you were meant to use linux,
you would have fixed mandrake. reinstalling will just give you headaches.
Better to install and fix troubles, if you do you will have a stable install.
If you buy and install all distros, you will constantly bitch about the
install process. It _is_ hard. MS only products (win modems) make it harder.
Trying to do things all gui and expecting things to work like windows makes
things harder still. _anyone_ would hate linux after that. My gf told me
that she sees why people suffer under linux. They try to use it just like
linux. Step one would be to forget about windows. Reinstalling can help
windows troubles, but I think it tends to make things worse in linux, not
inherently but b/c it gives you a bad attitude and a poor state of mind.
Be the computer, Pete, and not all is lost.
: >I have to say that I have never been involved in these tests. However,
: >I've had my fair share of hardware with certified drivers that has been a
: >PITA to install and get working, and has been unreliable since.
: You'd think with all the testing they have, it would work better.
: >And they're not always hardware problems.
: I know, I know! Windows 9x is not a stable platform.
I don't know about that, nor do I care. My good exp w/ linux doesn't depend
on the merits nor lack of merit in any other platform. If you are using linux
b/c you have troubles with windows then this is a bad attitude and will
color your thoughts. Magic eight ball recomends clear mind before you touch
install disk.
good luck,
Fred
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