Linux-Advocacy Digest #354, Volume #32 Tue, 20 Feb 01 18:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Check out this Windows bug (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux
Re: The Windows guy. (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Incredible developments in Italy regarding business software ("Adam Warner")
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Ziya Oz)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Donald R. McGregor)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:29:13 -0500
Bob Hauck wrote:
>
> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:40:15 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> I don't think IBM ever claimed that you could use DOS and Windows
> >> drivers on OS/2.
>
> > IBM was marketing it as a replacement for windows. They misled people
> > about the nature of the Windows support.
>
> I disagree. Nobody but the truly cluless thought that OS/2 could use
> Windows and DOS drivers. If even they did.
>
> >> DOS and Win3/95 drivers don't seem to work on NT3 or 4. Is that a major
> >> flaw in NT, or just a design decision?
> >
> >Microsoft didn't market NT as a better windows than Windows, and didn't
> >market it as a replacement for Windows 3.1.
>
> Yet it had the same UI as Win3, and we were told that it could run most
> Win3 applications.
>
> >> > MS made Win32 programs work with existing DOS and windows drivers,
> >> > something that OS/2 didn't do. This was important to consumers, as
> >> > was the solid look and feel.
>
> >> Of course, Win95 was slower and less reliable (and that's saying
> >> something) if you took advantage of this.
> >
> >Not even, Win95 was much faster than Windows 3.1, and was much more stable
> >than 3.1.
>
> I disagree that it was faster. I wil grant that was more stable.
>
> But what I actually meant is that Win95 with DOS drivers was slower and
> less stable than Win95 without DOS drivers. I don't recall MS putting
> any disclaimers in their marketing material about that. Were they
> "misleading" people? You seem to think that IBM was by not saying
> "won't use your old drivers" in big bold print at the top of their ads.
>
> >> > The fact that the windows programs had a different look to them
> >> > was a constant reminder that they weren't "real" programs
> >>
> >> You seem to assume that all vendors must conform to Windows to be
> >> competitive. Of course, if you start with that assumption, then nothing
> >> not from Microsoft can ever be competitive.
>
> >No, I think IBM would have done a lot better if they had made the windows
> >programs use the OS/2 look and feel. The problem was that it was very
> >different between apps.
>
> That would have been pretty hard to do given the method they used. And
> how many apps would break if controls were different sizes or placed
> differently or had different message semantics? Sounds to me like you
> are trying to say that they should somehow have made their system
> identical yet different. MS is the standard to which everyone must
> conform. Hogwash.
>
> Even had they been able to do what you suggest, I don't think it would
> have made any difference in the long run. In fact, a lot of people
> think that too-good Windows compatibility was part of the reason OS/2
> failed to attract developer support.
>
> In any case, OS/2 failed because IBM supported it half-heartedly, and
> they did that because of MS pressure on the PC company. The GUI had
> very little, if anything, to do with it. OS/2 could have been 100%
> perfectly Win-compatible and still not been able to make headway due to
> "political" factors that were completely out of the control of the
> developers.
>
> >> Yes it is. I quoted it up there. You said that Allchin wants Congress
> >> to feel that MS is being victimized by kids in garages. The only other
> >> way to parse that is that Congress is the one being victimized by kids
> >> in garages, but that doesn't make any sense.
> >
> >No. You said that MS is afraid of these kids. I didn't say that. I said
> >MS wants Congress to believe they are being victimized. Two different
> >things.
>
> Subtly so. My interpretation is actually more generous, giving them the
> benefit of the doubt that they are really afraid. You are saying that
> they are liars who will just make stuff up to get benefits from Congress.
>
> >> So you're saying that Allchin is a liar, which is something we can agree
> >> on.
>
> >I think he's embellishing, which could be called the same thing. It seems
> >to be commonplace today.
>
> Which does not make it right. I don't defend McNeally or Ellison's lies
> or and I can't comprehend why you defend Allchin's and Gates'.
>
> How are people, in Congress and out, supposed to make rational decisions
> about public policy if it is "ok" for the people involved to just tell
> any lie that suits them? That's no way to run a republic. The news
> media seem to have abdicated their responsibility to point out when
> somebody is lying.
In the last 8 years, the American press has become WILLING PARTICIPANT in the lie.
>
> But I digress.
>
> >I'm not condoning it, just saying it happens. Deal with it.
>
> I am dealing with it, by pointing out that he is lying so that other
> people can use that information in evaluating the case he makes.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| Codem Systems, Inc.
> -| http://www.codem.com/
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:26:39 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>The reason Pete Goodwin's assumption was unreasonable was because he
>presumed that he knew how it worked, when he didn't, simply because he
>knows how Windows' works. Effectively, he made the same mistake as
>selecting the wrong printer, though he didn't know that due to his
>unfamiliarity with Gimp.
Incorrect!
How many times do I have to point this out to you?
I was _not_ thinking of Windows when I made that assumption. I was
thinking what would a reasonable person expect to happen!
You're trying to excuse an inconsistancy within The Gimp by saying it was
my mistake - you're wrong!
Pete
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,demon.local
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:30:08 -0500
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> >> Trouble is, they're as popular as Hitler was in the 30's. Up another 5%
> >> just today, despite Lord Irvine's shenannagins.
> >
> > Well, look at the opposition. The right wing in the UK at the moment
> > tend to give me the impression of being the sort of people who would
> > have had two problems with Hitler; that he was head of a party with the
> > word "Socialist" in its name, and that he was German.
>
> LOL!
>
> > Crazy xenophobic idiots. I wouldn't put them in charge of organizing a
> > piss-up in a brewery...
>
> I agree completely. I think the Lib-Dems are the best bet (ant that's not
> saying much). Trouble is, they'll never get in. The only hope is if there
> is a hung parliment and the lib-dems form a coalition and exert some kind
> of influence.
You need a Libertarian party over there. Your government is like a
vampire, sucking every penny it can get.
>
> -ed
>
> --
> | u98ejr
> | @
> Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
> | .ac.uk
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Check out this Windows bug
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:31:07 -0500
Tim Hanson wrote:
>
> Edward Rosten wrote:
> >
> > >> He was attempting to prepare and move files. What's to question?
> > >
> > > I can't believe how bad FAT32 is! Damn, is there a worse filesystem out
> > > there: severe fragmentation, no symlinks, long file names is really a
> > > hack, reliability is horrid.
> >
> > DFS? Found on 180K FM disks. No directory structure, 80 files max. Then
> > that was abandoned in favour of ADFS about 15 years ago.
> >
> > > OTOH, I will give FAT credit for one
> > > thing. Isn't it the best filesystem for very small filesystems, like
> > > say, for a 1.44 MB floppy, for example?
> >
> > Nah. ext2 works very well on small floppies, as does ADFS.
> >
> > > You know, if someone in 1991
> > > (when I first started using a WinDOS PC) told me 1.44MB floppies would
> > > still be the norm, I'd never have believed it. Come on - LS120 or some
> > > equivalent should have long been the standard default floppy drive as of
> > > 2 years ago. That said, I think LS-120 floppies are too expensive. The
> > > reason, I believe, is probably due to low volume due to slow sales.
> > > It's not like magnetic media is going to be around forever anyways.
> > > Yet, we're still stuck with 1.44MB floppies as the norm. Well, I
> > > realize you could always install an LS120 later. But, if they were the
> > > standard, as they should have been, those "super floppy" disks would
> > > probably cost 1/8 of what they do now.
> >
> > After 5.25" floppies were standard, it took the brute force of IBM to
> > force in a new standard. Now noone dominates the market, no new standard
> > has been forced in. Until a standard is adoptes, sales will remain low.
> > Whilst sales are low, they will not bw common and therefore not be
> > standard.
> >
>
> One of the obstacles faced by a new writable media standard is the lack
> of need for a replacement. Even a 120mb floppy is puny next to 80gb
> hard drives being produced today, which eliminates them as a storage
> medium. As far as transfer to another computer, it's easier to use a
> NIC. That pretty much relegates the floppy to duty as emergency
> backup. For that, 1.4mb is sufficient.
>
No, that's what tape drives are for.
> --
> Oh, I am a C programmer and I'm okay
> I muck with indices and structs all day
> And when it works, I shout hoo-ray
> Oh, I am a C programmer and I'm okay
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:31:51 -0000
On 20 Feb 2001 11:33:02 GMT, Bloody Viking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Aaron Kulkis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>: Personally, I think a Marine Expeditionary Brigade, 2 Marine
>: Air Wings, and a couple of Iowa-Class battleships should use
>: the Redmond, Washington campus of Microsoft as a live-fire
>: training ground.
>
>The Iowa-model battleships would be nice, just make sure to adapt nuke
>artillery shells to its guns. That way, Redmond becomes MS-Parking Lot v.1.0.
As long as the standard shells have range enough to get to
Redmond, you don't really need to add a nuclear warhead.
Those shells can do quite a bit of damage on their own.
--
Unless you've got the engineering process to match a DEC,
you won't produce a VMS.
You'll just end up with the likes of NT.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Windows guy.
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:29:33 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>Conversely, GM has Unix systems with 150 installed apps...and there's
>not even the slightest question if adding another one will impact
>stability.
>
>Because in a well-designed system, crashing apps don't harm the OS.
Then why does forking child processes ad infinitum bring Linux to its
knees (assuming no limits)?
Then why does loading a 130MByte text file into the Advanced Text Editor
make Linux go into massive paging?
_Any_ system can be brought down by an application.
Pete
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:32:20 -0500
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Craig Kelley"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >> >> I can't say I follow UK politics too well, but I doubt that's the
> >> >> problem. The problem is that a government typically operates at or
> >> >> slightly beyond the legal limits of its authority. With no full
> >> >> equivalent of the US Constitution to restrict its powers, the UK
> >> >> government can get away with more, and does.
> >> >
> >> > True. And the public demand that Parliament outlaw handguns will, in
> >> > the final analysis, prove to be the key step which costs British
> >> > subjects even the appearance of freedom.
> >>
> >> No. We live in a democracy and we are free to not have guns if we wish.
> >> I think there is more freedom in restrictive gun laws because it means
> >> that I am free to live my life without getting shot. I want that
> >> freedom.
> >
> > Those laws will not protect you from getting shot.
>
> Yes they will. If there are less guns in circulation, I have less chance
> of getting shot.
Exceedingly poor analysis.
You seem to forget that the number of criminals carrying guns tends
to remain unchanged by such laws.
What part of VIOLENT LAW VIOLATOR do you not understand?
>
> > If we really want to save lives here, why not ban alcohol so that the
> > DUI rate goes down? DUIs kill more people every day than hand guns do
> > all year.
>
> You should not let the persuite of the excellent get ni the way of the
> good. Hand guns are banned here and there are far fewer gun related
> deaths here than in the US. If you discount N. Ireland, then the
> statistics look even better.
>
> -Ed
>
>
> --
> | u98ejr
> | @
> Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
> | .ac.uk
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Incredible developments in Italy regarding business software
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:33:45 GMT
Hi Edward,
> Distribute Linux at a price which does not cause you to make a profit,
> then sell the services. Would that work?
I doubt it since the law emcompasses any software used for business
purposes. If you want to see a way how Micosoft could promote a system
whereby consumers are protected from illegal manufacturing operations this
could be the type of legal prototype Allchin was talking about when he
stated that policymakers need educating to understand the threat of free
software.
>From the article several actions can be defined as profit-making:
"The SIAE officer in Florence declares that free distribution of a demo is
for profit, and thus requires application for the stamps."
It looks like it will be illegal to carry a CD or Disk in your pocket that
doesn't have a stamp. And a magistrate and lawyer refused to view a hard
disk being carried around in a pocket as any different. Laptops may also
need stickers.
Just requiring that all programs be certified (to protect authors of
course) would be enough to wipe out the benefits of rapid application
development in the free software world. Such a requirement would involve
simple compliance to a software company like Microsoft (who would be able
to easily obtain certification for its programs+incorporate signed
program protection mechanisms into WinXP).
This has given me a glimpse of how a scaled down version of the Italian
system could be sold to policymakers as a way to protect the intellectual
property of software developers.
Regards,
Adam
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
From: Ziya Oz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:34:07 GMT
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
>> No, I'm thinking of "free" software, as I described it. It's the GPL zealots
>> who pollute the language with their double speak. Why should we let them
>> decide what "free" is?
>
> What's not "free" about GPL software?
If I put a piece of code on a server for download so that anyone could do
whatever the heck they want with it, without any restrictions or license
agreements whatsoever, that would be "free" code. GPL isn't free.
> When people argue about this sort of thing, they're usually upset that
> they're not "free" to put GPL code into their own commercial software,
> which isn't free. You're not free to restrict access to GPL software, but
> I don't see how that makes it less "free" in the sense of everyone being
> able to get it for nothing.
This none sense about the code not being "free" unless protected by GPL is
just that: none sense. I give the code away free. If somebody incorporates
it into a proprietary app later, so what? That's their business. My code is
still free out there, for anyone to use.
****
Ziya
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:35:09 -0500
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Craig Kelley"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >> >> I can't say I follow UK politics too well, but I doubt that's the
> >> >> problem. The problem is that a government typically operates at or
> >> >> slightly beyond the legal limits of its authority. With no full
> >> >> equivalent of the US Constitution to restrict its powers, the UK
> >> >> government can get away with more, and does.
> >> >
> >> > True. And the public demand that Parliament outlaw handguns will, in
> >> > the final analysis, prove to be the key step which costs British
> >> > subjects even the appearance of freedom.
> >>
> >> No. We live in a democracy and we are free to not have guns if we wish.
> >> I think there is more freedom in restrictive gun laws because it means
> >> that I am free to live my life without getting shot. I want that
> >> freedom.
> >
> > Those laws will not protect you from getting shot.
>
> Yes they will. If there are less guns in circulation, I have less chance
> of getting shot.
>
> > If we really want to save lives here, why not ban alcohol so that the
> > DUI rate goes down? DUIs kill more people every day than hand guns do
> > all year.
>
> You should not let the persuite of the excellent get ni the way of the
> good. Hand guns are banned here and there are far fewer gun related
> deaths here than in the US. If you discount N. Ireland, then the
And your handgun death rate started RISING as soon as handguns were banned.
> statistics look even better.
>
> -Ed
>
>
> --
> | u98ejr
> | @
> Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
> | .ac.uk
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donald R. McGregor)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:35:52 -0000
In article <96uo1u$4ci$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The UK has seen gun crime go up since the laws passed. The guns used by
>
>The origional laws were paseed about 100 years ago (or more),
No. Up through the 19th century and well into the 20th there
were essentially no restrictions on firearms ownership. In
the 20's, due to fear of a Bolshie insurrection, they were
substantially added to. The homicide rate (with or without
guns) was low before the 20's and low afterwards, so you
can't say the low homicide rate was caused by the gun laws.
and as a
>result the majority of people have never owned a gun. The recent laws
>passed have had a neglible effect on the total number of guns in
>circulation. As a result of low gun ownership overall, gun crime in the
>UK is low.
You're assuming what you're trying to prove. Other nations have
high firearms ownership rates (Switzerland, where everyone has
a full auto rifle in the house) and low murder rates.
The recent laws have had a huge effect on the number of legal
handguns in ciruculation (there are none). They're all illegal
now. Oddly, the gun crime rate keeps going up, so apparently
the gun laws aren't having much of the desired effect any
more now than they were in the 20's.
>> And, uh, let's see, if everyone used the BSD license model gun crime
>> would go down.
>
>
>Advocacy groups are noted for very rarely, if ever going off topic.
--
Don McGregor | "The cemetery is filled with indispensable men."
[EMAIL PROTECTED]| --DeGaulle
------------------------------
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