Linux-Advocacy Digest #426, Volume #32 Fri, 23 Feb 01 06:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Nick Condon)
Re: State of linux distros (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] (Henri
Karrenbeld)
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Woofbert)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Woofbert)
Re: Linux web pads? (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: Amusing Aaron Kulkis Anagrams (meow)
Re: Amusing Aaron Kulkis Anagrams (meow)
Re: Amusing Aaron Kulkis Anagrams (meow)
Re: Answer this if you can... (Benjamin Jones)
Re: Maximum Linux Magazine Is Going Out Of Business Ha Ha Ha (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] ("Donal K.
Fellows")
Re: Interesting Google Facts! (Jasper)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:08:58 GMT
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>"Donal K. Fellows" wrote:
>> A bystander? Not sure I'd agree with that being taken as anything
>> other than murder. Criminals still have rights, even when they abuse
>> the rights of others. This is because we live in (what we like to
>> think of as) a free society, and is IMHO one of the main features of
>> one...
>>
>
>Did you know that when coming into a situation in progress, the
>police shoot the WRONG person about 40% of the time. Conversely,
>armed-bystanders kill the wrong person less than 5% of the time.
Sounds like an argument for unarmed police.
--
Nick
------------------------------
Subject: Re: State of linux distros
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:19:11 GMT
"Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> And yet, Red Hat appears to be consolidating its leadership position, and
> was (until the recent slowdown) on track to become profitable next year.
> They are selling exactly that "dubious value" you refer to.
Yes. Although you'll notice that the staff S.u.S.E laid off, was a
really small percentage of its total (which is mostly in Europe, not
US) and that it is the market leader in Germany and big in the rest of
Europe. I wouldn't write them off just yet, and they have, IMHO, a
better track record than RH for providing stable and technically sound
solutions, as well as the largest selection of applications this side
of Debian.
Debian, on the other hand, may not have as large a market share -
although it's hard to measure, since nobody buys it from shelves or
downloads ISO images - but it's really hard to see how it could go out
of "business", since it's not really dependent on business to exist.
In Asia, TurboLinux has much of the foothold S.u.S.E has in Europe.
> But it appears that they are the only Linux distribution vendor who has a
> viable chance of long term survival and reasonable financial success at this
> point.
I don't think that's clear.
Although Debian will almost certainly never be a "financial success",
might I remind you that it shares this property with the kernel. It's
not necessarily a bad thing.
> The problem for Red Hat is that this places them one notch below
> Microsoft in the open source bible. Corporations might like them, but
> they'll be trashed on cola in proportion to their success
Not really, they get thrashed because they rush releases of beta
software which doesn't always work very well.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Henri Karrenbeld)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.security.ssh
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:21:19 GMT
>"Peter da Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>>>
>> > And your understanding of ActiveX is fundamentally flawed because
>ActiveX is
>> > a code packaging and delivery mechanism (a-la Navigator plugins) whose
>job
>> > does not and should not include security. The real problem is Win9x's
>lack
>> > of protection. When you run IE on WinNT/2K with sufficiently low user
>> > privileges, you're totally protected against attacks via ActiveX.
>>
>> For values of protected that don't include, say, being protected
>> against being used to launch spam,
>>
>No, you may simply run the browser as a user who has no address book. That's
>what I do.
Although this helps against some viruses it does not work against:
- viruses that scan the netwerk stream for email addresses (like I-Worm.Hybris
and I-Worm.MTX)
- viruses that scan your 'Sent Mail' or 'Inbox' folder for Email addresses
(example: I-Worm.ZippedFiles, it scans Inbox)
- viruses that spread via infection of MIRC.INI (like VBS.Loveletter)
- viruses that spread via infection of your Outlook Express signature
(like Wscript.Kakworm)
- viruses that spread by infection the outgoing NTTP and SMTP streams on
the fly (like I-Worm.Happy99)
- and then there's still viruses who sweep network shares and delete
(or mangle) everything they can (like VBS.Loveletter)
I must admit that none of these spread via ActiveX (probably because most
people that code these things can't make ActiveX plugins) but there is
no reason why such a thing cannot be made as a dropper and then use the
techniques above to spread.
[snip]
$) Henri Karrenbeld
--
Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked. -- nn.
There are no thoughts too radical for a people to view; there are just some
people too radical to control the thoughts of others --
JMS - Great Maker of Babylon 5. -=- All Your Base Are Belong To Us!
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:35:25 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
>>1. So, what you're saying, is that, after you die, you intend to pass
>>on absolutely NOTHING of value to your children and/or grandchildren?
> I doubt I'm likely to have anything over the threshold for the inheritance
> tax in the US. But suppose I was taxed at 100%. That would not stop me
> working while I was alive, no.
On the other hand, leaving stashes of money might stop your
(grand)children from working. :-)
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:36:15 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Nick Condon) wrote:
> >Did you know that when coming into a situation in progress, the
> >police shoot the WRONG person about 40% of the time. Conversely,
> >armed-bystanders kill the wrong person less than 5% of the time.
>
> Sounds like an argument for unarmed police.
You there! Stop! Stop, or I shall say "Stop!" again!
The other week, some Oakland rookie cops shot and killed an undercover
cop who was holding a car thief at gunpoint.
--
Woofbert <woofbert at infernosoft dot com> -- http://www.infernosoft.com
"As any discussion of the Macintosh progresses, the likelihood of someone
claiming that the Mac UI was stolen from Xerox approaches 1. At this point,
the thread has degenerated to such an extent that it might as well end."
------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics.guns,demon.local
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:38:01 GMT
In article <973omt$iem$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Joshua Hesse
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That settles it. Next time I go to Scotland I'm going to take a
> mace and a claymore. However, I suspect that they don't allow
> TOWs on commercial flights.
Not as carry-on baggage. Only as checked baggage, locked and secured
with the missiles in separate containers.
--
Woofbert <woofbert at infernosoft dot com> -- http://www.infernosoft.com
"As any discussion of the Macintosh progresses, the likelihood of someone
claiming that the Mac UI was stolen from Xerox approaches 1. At this point,
the thread has degenerated to such an extent that it might as well end."
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux web pads?
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:38:32 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] () writes:
>> network link, so the server (the desktop) would have to run some kind of
>> X-server software. Linux obviously is the first O/S that came to my mind,
> The proper terminology for such a thing is Xclient. The "server"
> machine in this arrangement would not need to even have a video
> card.
Specifcally, a piece of software (application) which runs on your
server is an X client. The display software (running your web pad,
or whatever) is the X server.
I wouldn't call the box running programs for display elsewhere an 'X
client', but the programs would be.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: meow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Amusing Aaron Kulkis Anagrams
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:53:39 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rotten168
@worldnet.att.net says...
> meow wrote:
> >
> > I've been coming up with some anagrams of Aaron Kulkis name and i
> > thought id share them with you
> >
> > Aaron Kulis = Miserable piece of shit
> > Aaron Kulis = Toss Pot
> > Aaron Kulis = Argumentitive fuck wit
> > Aaron Kulis = Arrogant wank stain
> > Aaron Kulis = Numb nuts
> >
> > thats all i have so far
> > I think there surely must be some more
> > Anyone got any others?
> >
> > Meow
>
> OK where's the joke? Those obviously aren't anagrams. Or is this thing 1
> mile above my head?
>
> I suspect that 'meow' is no older than 14 years old, and I'm totally
> serious about that.
>
Well spotted :)
They arent anagrams of course just an excuse for a free for all name
calling session against kulkis who is the biggest wanker in the
newsgroup
------------------------------
From: meow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Amusing Aaron Kulkis Anagrams
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:58:37 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> Congratulations, buttface.
>
> You have managed to get ARK to add three more line to an already bloated,
> useless, and netiquette-ignorant sig.
My pleasure
------------------------------
From: meow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Amusing Aaron Kulkis Anagrams
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:00:38 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> meow wrote:
> >
> > I've been coming up with some anagrams of Aaron Kulkis name and i
> > thought id share them with you
> >
> > Aaron Kulis = Miserable piece of shit
> > Aaron Kulis = Toss Pot
> > Aaron Kulis = Argumentitive fuck wit
> > Aaron Kulis = Arrogant wank stain
> > Aaron Kulis = Numb nuts
> >
> > thats all i have so far
> > I think there surely must be some more
> > Anyone got any others?
> >
> > Meow
>
> Please change your fake name. I like cats and I find your
> usage of "meow" to be inappropriate and insulting to the
> Feline species
No can do
Your obviously mental like kulkis
Its hard to imagine but it looks like Kulkis actually has a friend in
the world
------------------------------
From: Benjamin Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 02:27:47 -0700
Dear Mr. Muir,
You raise some good points. At the risk of sounding like the penguins
that
you parody in your article, I would defend the various Linuces on two
grounds:
(1.) These areas (especially the installation/menu/graphical link
install)
are improving rapidly, and the solutions are really in KDE and GNOME,
not Linux. The flexibility of Linux makes it possible to default
installs and
key mappings to the kind of settings you (and most desktop users) want,
and
I am convinced that KDE, at least, which has given users a very Windozey
GUI already, will ship with graphical installs, menu updating, and
keymappings
that everyone expects.
(by the way, almost all X applications can paste from one window into
another
already, but you don't use the paste method from the different apps. You
just
hilight the text you want to copy, and click the middle button to paste
it at the mouse
location. The nice uniform clipboard in MS software is a feature of the
individual apps,
I think--there is something to be said for having different clipboards
for the window manager
and the individual apps.)
(2.) Linux is going through a development as a desktop OS similar to that
experienced by Windows.
When I bought my first Mac, getting it to run was oh-so-easy, and
installing drivers and running
3.1 was a big mess. The disadvantage was that you had to buy Mac
hardware for everything, which
was overpriced and a little mouse-heavy. Now MS has the king mindshare,
so everyone else
who sells desktop software sells it on windows, and makes it work well
with--and run like--MS
software.
In 1994, you could run Windows on any x86 architecture machine, and
switch between a character
prompt and a GUI--but you had to do more by yourself than most users
wanted to. In 2001, you have
a parallel situation; you can run Linux on a wide variety of old
hardware, and you can make it do
whatever you want to, but you have to do it yourself. If Linux wants a
piece of the desktop, it has
to have some kind of default GUI, or (as it looks more likely) two or
three GUIs with default settings
that users like. It's getting there. X runs out of the box on lots of
distros, and software makers
(like StarDivision) make installers that make auto menu entries and
desktop links that winvocates are
used to.
I don't care for Windows, but I don't want to claim that its because
Windows doesn't do anything well,
even better than my beloved Slackware with Windowmaker in some cases.
Nevertheless, I predict that
the more desktop marketed distros (Red Hat/SuSe) will be as easy and
convenient to use--and easier to
reconfigure--than Windows within about 5 years. You'll be able to run in
an environment that works for
Win users, but--and this is what matters to me--you'll be able to switch
to a Unix mode if you want to.
Windows may follow suit admirably, and make a dual system with a full
featured shell and a simple GUI--like
a jazzed up NeXT step--as well. If so, good for them, but being open
source still means something extra.
I'm sorry that KDE and GNOME don't do it for you yet--a lot of
independent people are working very hard
to satisfy the needs you named, regardless of what the Linsnobs say.
Miguel deI cares about these issues. Mr.
GNOME feels your pain.
I hope you check back with us reguarly,
cheers,
Ben Jones
John Muir wrote:
> <Tirade>
>
> Now please don't get me wrong, I WANT to like Linux, I want to tell
> everyone how good it is, that they are silly to stay with Windows,
> that Linux is faster and better, but...
>
> I have been using Linux off and on for about three years. Every now
> and again I get the urge to use it constantly and at first find it
> wonderful and open and fast and non-Windows, but then comes the
> STOPPER?
>
> <Examples>
>
> I install some RPM package or other and at the end of the
> install...NOTHING... where is the bloody thing? How do I start it?
> Where is the new menu entry. Nuffin' doing kid. Now for some REAL fun
> 'find -i / -iname mozilla' ? and then work out if it's a binary or
> script. If it's a script then './blahblah' ? Yes, you arrogant
> bastard, I know Linux is so bloody clever that this will stop baddies
> usurping ? and so on. But it doesn't make anyone actually want to use
> Linux instead of Windows, does it?
>
> I want to copy a line of text from my xterm window (or browser window)
> to another app ... forget it! EVERY Windows app can cut & paste to
> another app, why not Linux? This is CRIMINAL!
>
> I can't get the delete key to delete the character to the RIGHT of the
> insertion cursor in X. (Please don't even try to tell me that
> 'historic' reasons related to teletypes and punched tape have any
> rele-vance to today). In spite of almost a whole day spent reading
> HOWTO's and searching Google et al, if I enter <ctrl>-v then the
> 'delete' key is STILL COMES BACK WITH '^?' INSTEAD OF '[[3~' although
> outside of X it works fine. That I should even have to know such
> arcane crap in 2001 is a total mystery to me.
>
> </Examples>
>
> I now understand that there really is a good reason why Microsoft
> spends so much effort on usability labs and such. Why do I seem always
> to have to fight Linux. Why doesn't it even TRY to help me? The
> arrogant attitude of some Linux 'gurus' is really childish..."REAL
> programmers enjoy wasting whole days trying to get Delete and
> Backspace working in all apps."
>
> For all the 'holier than thou' attitude of so many Linux advocates,
> Linux is simply 'spaghetti code' gone wild. Has no one in the Linux
> community read Parnas (1972) "On the Criteria to be used Decom-posing
> Systems into Modules?" If so, then why are whole web sites devoted to
> trying to help poor idi-ots like myself get the bloody 'delete' key to
> delete the character to the right of the insertion cur-sor? Have you
> lot never heard of encapsulation?
>
> If Linux was a half-decent system there would only be ONE place to set
> key mappings, but oh no 'its sooo flexible, you can set the key
> mappings in round about 10 to 20 different places', wow! That's really
> cool!
>
> If a programmer of mine put such a 'solution' to me I would think
> seriously of firing him/her.
> </tirade>
>
> ;-)
>
> John Muir
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Maximum Linux Magazine Is Going Out Of Business Ha Ha Ha
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:47:25 +1300
Hear! hear! I must agree. The projected theory is becoming reality, can't
remember the person who said it, but the conclusion was made that although in
the short term there are ALOT of distro's, the number will decrease to a small
number, in around 2 to three years time (depending upon market conditions,
the main distro's left will be Redhat, SuSE, Debian and if MacMillian doesn't
drop it, Mandrake. Also the "bullshit" in regards to fragmentation, the LSB,
or, Linux Standard Base will take effect, hence, major Software labels will
write their software according to the LSB requirements, and, as a result,
inter-compatibility between distro's will not be an issue, as the four major
ones will already be compliant.
Ray Chason wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wiley Post) wrote:
>
> >The thiefs at Maximum Linux magazine stole my 30.00
> >subscription fee almost a year ago.
> >They never sent me any magazines and now they are closing down.
> >Good!!!
>
> I bought a copy of ML once. 100% fluff. And the copy of Storm Linux
> that came with it didn't install; the install program locked up solid.
>
> I've never had a problem installing Slackware.
>
> Good riddance to ML. Good riddance to Stormix. Good riddance to bad
> rubbish.
>
> --
> --------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
> PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
> Delenda est Windoze
------------------------------
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.security.ssh
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:49:34 +0000
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Donal K. Fellows
>> Penguinista? Me? <snigger>
>
> What, you mean you haven't replaced an MS-OS on a Wintel computer
> yet and then run around shouting, "Vive la revolucion!" ? :-)
No, I use Solaris on an UltraSparc (uptime of 192 days so far this time :^)
so I can make disparaging comments about the whole of Wintel, including the
hardware platform...
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- I could even declare myself a religion, if that'd help.
-- Mark Loy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jasper)
Subject: Re: Interesting Google Facts!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:59:33 GMT
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:24:02 -0800, "Paolo Ciambotti"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>It could also be 40,200,000 archived messages pleading for help
>with installing Linux. But even that is a good general indication of uptake for
>Linux. How goes that proverb, "Bad publicity is better than no
>publicity"?
>
>You should visit the "Operating System Sucks-Rules-O-Meter" site for an
>interesting evaluation of similar findings.
>
>http://srom.zgp.org/
>
>Ciao.
Another interesting site:
http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2001/January/os.html
------------------------------
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