Linux-Advocacy Digest #450, Volume #32 Sat, 24 Feb 01 14:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited ("B.B.")
M$ doing it again! ("Martigan")
Re: M$ doing it again! (Brent R)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Chris Kern)
Re: Interesting article ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Where is suse 7.1? ("surrender")
Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? (peter)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Joona I Palaste)
Re: NT vs *nix performance (Ian Pulsford)
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? (Jan Francsi)
Re: RTFM at M$ (Bruce Scott TOK)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Bloody Viking)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited ("Jonathan Hendry")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "B.B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:16:48 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
@Did you know that we now have a larger percentage of our population
@behind bars than ANY other country on the face of the earth?
Yup, and Bush thinks it's necessary (maybe even good) to build more
prisons to hold more prisoners.
--
B.B. --I am not a goat! [EMAIL PROTECTED] @airmail.net
------------------------------
From: "Martigan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: M$ doing it again!
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:24:35 GMT
Well it seems that good Ol' Bill is doing it again, and the world does
nothing!
M$ Claims it has created a new environment for Whistler which allows
users to customize their desk top...Like X ...now M$ is "claiming" partial
opensource. To me this is scary!
Laugh all you want BUT the average computer owner (whom shouldn't have
one) thinks that Bill is such a great person to realize the importance of
this. That fact is many people know about Linux, but they don't know WHAT
Linux is!
Bask Bill as much as you want, but he has something's that the Linux
Community doesn't...that is money and the power to push major companies
around.
I have moved from windows to Linux, I love Linux since I can do what I
want with it. But the average computer user doesn't even know how to read
HTML, C++ or Java!
The few whom do know think I'm crazy, but do they talk to the average
computer user? Does Linux have the praise from ZDNET, WIRED, CNN, or MSNBC?
That's were the mainstream is.
------------------------------
From: Brent R <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: M$ doing it again!
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:32:44 GMT
Martigan wrote:
>
> Well it seems that good Ol' Bill is doing it again, and the world does
> nothing!
>
> M$ Claims it has created a new environment for Whistler which allows
> users to customize their desk top...Like X ...now M$ is "claiming" partial
> opensource. To me this is scary!
Do you have a link for this? I need proof, because somehow I don't think
you're an impartial observer.
> Laugh all you want BUT the average computer owner (whom shouldn't have
> one) thinks that Bill is such a great person to realize the importance of
> this. That fact is many people know about Linux, but they don't know WHAT
> Linux is!
Well if the "average computer owner" didn't own a computer then they
would cease to be the "average computer owner".
Let me ask you this question: what is Linux?
> Bask Bill as much as you want, but he has something's that the Linux
> Community doesn't...that is money and the power to push major companies
> around.
>
> I have moved from windows to Linux, I love Linux since I can do what I
> want with it. But the average computer user doesn't even know how to read
> HTML, C++ or Java!
Well you don't need to know any of those things to run Linux. I'm not
sure what you're getting at.
Sorry but this just seems like zealotry and Gates-bashing. The
anti-Windows crowd has some good arguments but posts like this don't
lend them credibility.
--
Happy Trails
-Brent
=============================
http://rotten168.home.att.net
=============================
ICQ# 51265871
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Kern)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:57:03 GMT
On 24 Feb 2001 12:41:40 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking) posted
the following:
> Why isn't it in degrees as is the standard?
While degrees may be the standard for many people, mathemeticians
always (or nearly always) use radians.
-Chris
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:42:08 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:hhEl6.2541$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:976jp7$706$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > > :>
> > > > :> It demonstrates exactly the opposite.
> > > >
> > > > : How do you get that? If it has to be done over it means it was
done
> > > wrong
> > > > : the first time. Do you want to encourage users to make their own
> > > > : mistakes with the security of their files?
> > > >
> > > > Some things have to be done over and over even if they are done
right
> > > > the first time, because circumstances change. In my example, you
will
> > > > note, I described a department with new people coming into it that
> > > > weren't there when the groupd was first made.
> > >
> > > But when circumstances change, they change globally. Why would
> > > you want every individual to apply ACL's and have to update them
> > > on every file when the circumstances change as opposed to letting
> > > the system administrator take care of updating the groups as
> > > the groups change?
> >
> > Only shows that you don't understand how ACLs works.
> > You can define ACLs for users or groups, so the *nix method has no
> advantage
> > over it.
>
> Yes you can do it right, just like you can use only styles to format a
> word document in a way that can be sanely modified later. However
> letting every user do it his own arbitrary way pretty much guarantees
> that it won't be done right.
Not every user can do this, every user that the admin want to do it can.
That is a whole different matter.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,demon.local
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:51:43 +0200
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:978knj$p4p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm section 53
> >
> > (4) A person who makes a disclosure to any other person of anything that
> > he
> > is required by a section 49 notice to keep secret shall be guilty of an
> > offence and liable-
> >
> > (a) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not
> > exceeding
> > five years or to a fine, or to both
>
> I think that these are some of the worst laws that have ever been passed.
Not by a long shot.
http://www.dumblaws.com/
Here are some examples:
In South Carolina, merchandise may not be sold within a half mile of a
church unless fruit is being sold.
In Norway, you may not spay your female dog or cat. However, you may neuter
the males of the species.
In Iowa, Kisses may last for no more than five minutes,
a.. One-armed piano players must perform for free.
a.. A man with a moustache may never kiss a woman in public.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,demon.local
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:00:22 +0000
In article <978p1p$gpk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:978knj$p4p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm section
>> > 53
>> >
>> > (4) A person who makes a disclosure to any other person of anything
>> > that
>> > he is required by a section 49 notice to keep secret shall be guilty
>> > of an offence and liable-
>> >
>> > (a) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not
>> > exceeding five years or to a fine, or to both
>>
>> I think that these are some of the worst laws that have ever been
>> passed.
>
> Not by a long shot. http://www.dumblaws.com/
>
> Here are some examples: In South Carolina, merchandise may not be sold
> within a half mile of a church unless fruit is being sold. In Norway,
> you may not spay your female dog or cat. However, you may neuter the
> males of the species. In Iowa, Kisses may last for no more than five
> minutes, a.. One-armed piano players must perform for free. a.. A man
> with a moustache may never kiss a woman in public.
LOL!
Those are bizzare, true, but the RIP bill seems to remove the right to
remain inncoent until proven guilty. That is worse than any of the
bizzare laws above.
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "surrender" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where is suse 7.1?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:28:44 GMT
In article <978epr$m2k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote something like:
> A perfect example of what Linux is all about for most people. Getting it
> to work. The challenge. The victory. The thrill.
>
> Correlate this with the diametrically opposed view (BS) on cola where we
> hear how their "grandmother" could install and use Linux.
>
> So, are you two saying you have no more computer literacy than your
> grandmothers? Or will you finally admit to the pervasive BS perpetrated
> in cola concerning linux's ease of use?
Looks like you don't know very much about linux. There are different distro's.
Some are easy to install (Suse, Redhat, Mdk, ...) and some are for the
more advanced users (debian, slack, ...)
Get it?
--
Greets
surrender (who's English sucks :)
------------------------------
From: peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:40:48 GMT
Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
What I'm trying to do, is design a factory inventory system. To keep
cost down I want to use Linux. The model I'm using, is a furniture
factory. I want to design a system that will allow the factory to
keep track of their "work in progress" and finished goods. I'm
guessing that this will be a little more complicated than your
average inventory system?
Of course the workers would have to access the system to enter data,
etc, so the user interfaces can't be too complicated (GUI?).
SOFTWARE
Is there any "open source" software that can help me with the
inventory and tracking ? or
Would I have to write a program from scratch or could I modify some
existing software ? or
Would it make more sense to just buy the software (for linux) ?
HARDWARE
This is an easy (well easier) one for me, first I would make sure the
hardware (I'm buying) is linux compatible. I would go out and buy B/W
9" monitors, those cool small cases (with the 810e chipset, if the
810e is linux compatible), and celeron cpus, etc. I would pick up
some retractable keyboard and mouse holders and set up several rack
mount style data centers throughout the factory (I would love to set
this up!!!)
On the server side, things get a little tricky, maybe (just maybe) tie
into a win 2000 server (A lot depends on what existing system they
already have, and we all know that many of the existing systems will
be win98, etc). I guess the management would need to access the data
entered by the factory workers to check progress, productivity, etc.
A linux server could be used and we could somehow give the management
access to this server though their existing win boxes (secure CRT ?).
Or we could design a simple way to access and read the data in linux
(write a small reporting program or use some simple database program)
and also have the forms printed automatically at the end of the day.
SUPPORT
Depending on the size of the factory, in-house linux/windows support
would be smart, But if it's a small company, then they could call on
the systems/software provider (me) for support. From what I read
about linux, if I design the system right, there won't be to many
problems. I would probably set up a service contract where I would
come in every month and check things out.
SECURITY
This system would not be accessible from the outside, This is a lone
factory (pretty rare in today's world, but let's keep things simple :)
Managers would have internet access, so normal virus protection, and
other precautions would be in place.
FORGET LINUX
If, for some strange reason it would be better to do this on some
other platform, like freeBSD, or windows 2000, please tell me. Let's
assume that the factory is a midsize factory (40-60 factory workers,
10-12 manager/sales/etc, and that they will need about 10 data entry
terminals, and every manager already has a windows 98 box.
NOTE
I know I've left out a lot a details, I've never worked in a factory
and I'm trying to understand how this can all work together. I think
if we let are imaginations loose we can all have some fun with this;
and a lot of the newbies to Linux and IT can learn a little.
------------------------------
From: Joona I Palaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: 24 Feb 2001 18:02:52 GMT
Bloody Viking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> scribbled the following
on comp.lang.c:
> Edward Rosten ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> : Those are perfectly normal errors: you have no cos function. You need to
> : link against the maths library as well as #including the header.
> : gcc -lm ...
> The "0lm" trick sure did it. Just tested it on another virtual console.
> Thanks! Fun easier quesation. Why isn't it in degrees as is the standard?
Radians are more natural than degrees. Radians are based on a
fundamental measurement of all circles ever (ie. the constant pi), but
degrees are based on an entirely arbitrary human-specified number (360).
--
/-- Joona Palaste ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"Hasta la Vista, Abie!"
- Bart Simpson
------------------------------
From: Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 04:14:42 +1000
Nik Simpson wrote:
>
> "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
<crop>
> > It might not be exactly 10 years old. It's pretty close.
>
> I'd be surprised if it's five years old, six tops.
>
> --
> Nik Simpson
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/6.12/hotmale.html
It was created in 1995, sold to M$ on Dec 31 1997.
As for what's OSes it is running, I could not find a piece of
authoritative information. The rumours that I had come to believe were
that it was running FreeBSD webservers and Solaris backends.
It seems they have moved some webservers, at least, to a M$ OS. Or
they're just faking it!
bash-2.04$ telnet 64.4.43.7 80
Trying 64.4.43.7...
Connected to lc1.law13.hotmail.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
echo 'GET / HTTP/1.0\n'
HTTP/1.1 302 Redirected
Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:46:10 GMT
Location: http://lc1.law13.hotmail.passport.com/cgi-bin/login
Connection closed by foreign host.
IanP
--
"Dear someone you've never heard of,
how is so-and-so. Blah blah.
Yours truly, some bozo." - Homer Simpson
------------------------------
From: Jan Francsi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:13:12 +0100
Hello!
I think, you need some kind of database.
Read about sql and relational Databases.
As a server you can use a Linux box with mysql.
On the client side, you can create
- software in C with qt2 lib's for graphical GUI
- html with java or php to make the Database accesable in any Browser.
In that case you will need the Apache www server on your server.
For system-service use SSH, Telnet and webmin, a verry nice www
(intranet) aplication.
I hope, this helps.
greatings, Jan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Scott TOK)
Subject: Re: RTFM at M$
Date: 24 Feb 2001 19:25:51 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>http://www.microsoft.com&[EMAIL PROTECTED]/pub/mskb/Q209354.asp
I got 404... have they "fixed" it?
(I also got 404 for the other one posted in this thread)
--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: 24 Feb 2001 18:58:07 GMT
Edward Rosten ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Those are perfectly normal errors: you have no cos function. You need to
: link against the maths library as well as #including the header.
: gcc -lm ...
: should do the trick.
Someone else said the same thing, and sure enough it compiled up. Whether it's
degrees, radians, or grads, I'll have to figure it out and make a simple
conversion line. While I'm not the greatest programmer by any stretch of the
imagination, the odd error took me by surprise. That -lm switch will sure be
handy any time I decide to use trig in homebrew software.
When I compiled it up with the switch, I got an unexpected answer, as I used
45 for the angle, expecting degrees as the default, which would be .707... as
opposed to .850904. It looks like gcc uses radians. No matter, you slip in a
conversion line. (:
BTW, the posted code is officially GNU by my decree. :)
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: "Jonathan Hendry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:04:24 -0600
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:96ri2n$p20$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Drop shadow mouse cursors!
> >>
> >> Fading menus!
> >
> > Ohhhh, actually I have one:
> >
> > Menu items that don't show up: in MS-office 2000 if you click on the
> > menu's - you (wait for it) don't see all the menu items! Yes - it is
> > true - you have to physically move your mouse cursor down the menu -
> > indicating that you'd like to "reveal" all the menu options.
> >
> > Obviously the programmers knew it was brain-dead as they have added the
> > option to disable this default annoyance.
> >
> > Now if that is not an innovation - what is?
>
> I'll agree, that is definitely new. But as innovations go, it's pretty
> poor.
It must be a code geek's answer to the frequent complaint that
Microsoft apps have so many features that the average person
will never use.
Win2K's start menu can do the same thing. It's awful.
------------------------------
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