Linux-Advocacy Digest #562, Volume #32 Wed, 28 Feb 01 16:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Steve Mading)
Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Kenneth Simpson)
Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
Re: why open source software is better ("vrml3d.com")
Re: I say we BAN "Innovation" ("Masha Ku'Inanna")
Whats the difference between BSD and Linux? (Christian Brandt)
Re: The Windows guy. (Steve Mading)
Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux (Steve Mading)
Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Aaron Kulkis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: 28 Feb 2001 20:42:44 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Gerry wrote:
:>
:> Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>
:> > MB is not a measurement of bandwidth, you need a reference to a time
:> > period also.
:>
:> "They don't go very far back, nowaday"
:>
:> I think that is a reference to a time period.
:>
:> 35MB of ANYTHING is a lot. But 35 MB of pointless signatures is someone
:> who is looking for confrontation.
: Wrong. It PREVENTS confrontation by exposing the habitual slanderer's
~~~~~~~~
You misspelled "making accusations of". Nobody who doesn't already agree
with your assesment of those individuals is going to be swayed just
because of your signature. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that
people stop arguing with you merely because they get sick of doing it,
not because of your sig.
: methods before they strike again.
------------------------------
From: Kenneth Simpson <"ken"@$spam$wellconnected.com>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:50:32 -0800
Hi - on Windoze machine, you may need an extension of .doc or
.rtf in order for Word on a Windoze machine to read it.
If you save the file in StarOffice as a Word file (.rft - not the
default format) then Windoze machine should be able to read it.
-- Ken
"Bryant Charleston, MCSE" wrote:
>
> If you compose a text document in Star Office 5.2, will it be readable on a
> Windows platform (as a text or Word doc) ? I can't seem to find any FAQs
> that address this issue. Thanks for any help!
>
> --
>
> ...................................................
> Bryant C Charleston
> A+ Network + MCP MCSE (NT4)
--
========================================================================
Ken Simpson Well Connected Computing, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1001 Bridgeway, Suite 630
Voice: +1.415.332.5018 Sausalito, CA 94965
FAX: +1.415.332.9197 USA, Earth
========================================================================
Printed using 100% recycled electrons.
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:51:57 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bryant Charleston, MCSE wrote:
> If you compose a text document in Star Office 5.2, will it be readable on
> a Windows platform (as a text or Word doc) ? I can't seem to find any FAQs
> that address this issue. Thanks for any help!
>
> --
>
>
> ...................................................
> Bryant C Charleston
> A+ Network + MCP MCSE (NT4)
>
>
>
Save the StarOffice-Document as Word97/2000 and there will be no problems
for M$-Office to read the document as a .doc-file. Works as good as with
.xls-files.
Cheers
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Using S.u.S.E. 5.3 and SuSE 7.0
------------------------------
From: "vrml3d.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: why open source software is better
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:53:55 -0500
Les Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Lo8n6.4637$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "vrml3d.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:97i0t4$4tb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > The subject line for this message should be "why open source software
> > > is better for the *customer*".
> >
> > No, it should be "why open source software is better for the customer in
> the
> > short run". Anything that drives producers out of the market in the
long
> > run is bad for consumers in the long run, business cycles not
> withstanding.
>
> The only producers that open source can drive out of the market are the
> ones who do not have a better product or service or are charging more
> than it is worth.
Not true (see below)
There is no evidence for any illegal anti-competitive
> activity by any open source producer
Ahem... government employees who produce software in the course of their
daily work are *legally* obligated to place that work in the public domain.
Any government employee who contributes to a GPL'd project is technicly
violating the law. That's anticompetitive in my book. I don't think it
will be too hard to find *somebody* to testify that this is happening.
and no illegal bundling of
> products.
>
> > Anecdotal evidence suggests a serious decline in shareware applications,
> > with open source an obvious culprit. Fewer apps, fewer choices. Sorry
I
> > don't have numbers to back it up. That's why it's only anecdotal.
>
> If anything, that is evidence that these products had no particular value
> compared to the alternatives.
There are at least two ways for producers to be driven out of the market.
1. their product is inferior, or had no value as you imply. 2. those who
would enter the market look at the conditions and decide it is not worth
enterring.
If you go back to Win3.x days, with OSS generally unknown to just about
everybody, there were strong incentives to enter the market, and many did.
If you look at the market now, I can't think of many compelling reasons to
enter and OSS is a primary factor. Even established vendors like Oracle are
struggling now, and I don't think you can blame this on Oracle being an
inferior product. The pressure is partly from the economy, but PostGre and
MySQL are certainly playing a part.
>From an economic standpoint, give me one good reason why I would want to
write a DB server (as a pure software sales play, none of this "we sell
support" BS) under these market conditions.
As the Clinton administration demonstrated, socialists can coast for quite
some time on the works done in previous years, but it eventually catches up
to them. Raiding the rich is always an attractive prospect in the short
run, but then eventually there are no more rich left to raid and people get
disgusted. It took Russia about 70 years to get to that point, VietNam 25
years, and North Korea still hasn't figured it out.
I give the OSS fad about 20 years to get to the point where the lack of
fresh new applications becomes such a burden to consumers that they begin to
thumb their noses at free software. You'll see articles in the tech mags
saying things like "the shrink-wrapped box is back".
--Steve
------------------------------
From: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I say we BAN "Innovation"
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:47:38 -0500
Reply-To: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Oh yeah ..
there is also "my" and/or "your".
Your@ware, Your Gateway, My Yahoo, My Rio, etc..
------------------------------
From: Christian Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Whats the difference between BSD and Linux?
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:57:05 +0100
About my background:
In late 1993 I tried NetBSD0.9 and was disgusted :-)
In early 1994 I tried Slackware and Suse-Linux (both were pretty much
equal then) and since then I am a loyal chameleon ;-)
Later I also worked with Solaris, FreeBSD, Debian, Slackware, AIX, some
oldish HPUX (eek, it even used ps -edaf in good, reallyreally old
BSD-syntax :-)
And from what I have seen I realize: Even for the hardcore admin a
gnuish world looks much brighter than a bsdish world. But don=B4t tell my=
coworkers, most have never used linux but installed BSD even way before
I did ;-)
Their arguments typically sound like this:
"myfavouriteBSD Version reallynew is better for servers than your
Slackware 0.1"
or in other words:
"its faster" (hum... as soon as you switch on softupdates on ufs it is
comparable to linux, but not faster, its memorymanagment seems to be a
bit smarter, so some daemons perform 5-10% better as long as I do not
handoptimize linux or use a small, modulized kernel - which seems to be
a sacrilege for BSD, most of our systems run with some >>4MB
All-Inclusive-Kernel...
"its smarter" well, I never got a more detailed answer than "make
world", so I guess apt-get or yast-updates or even a mere
packaging-system without 100Megs of Sources and hours of compiling just
don=B4t count :-)
"its more directed at powerfull servermanagment" well, maybe its just
me, but even cut seems to be mangled to uselessness in BSD, not to
mention find and tar...
I WANT HUNDREDS OF OPTIONS AS LONG AS I ACTUALLY NEED THEM.
"its more stable" uhm.. what can I say? I have seen all kinds of
"no exploits" Hahaha! Most exploits are targeted at applications and not
the kernel. Basetools are mostly not targets of exploits. A Apache or
sendmail running at bsd is as vulnerable as under linux. Or to be more
precise, you need to exploit a specific bug and thats mostly bound to
the specific release of the OS, like Suse7.1, Slackware7.1, Debian2.2r2,
FreeBSD4.2, AIX5 (well, would be fun ;-), Solaris7, NetBSD1.4, Suse4.4.1
and so on...
"the kernel is more powerfull" actually BSD-folk stopped to use this
argument one year ago. Seems like they finally realized that you can
shit into any recent computer and expect linux to deliver a driver for
it :-)
Based on the rather rude behaviour of most BSD-folks against Linux I can
just say: Consider this post as a flame and realize you are walking on
thin ice. Ignorance makes you comfortable, but not powerfull.
This is my personal opinion.
--
Christian Brandt
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Windows guy.
Date: 28 Feb 2001 20:59:59 GMT
Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:51:13 -0500, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>
:>
:> Steve Mading wrote:
:> >
:> > Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> >
:> > : Steve Mading wrote:
:> > :>
:> > :> Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> > :>
:> > :> : Wrong.
:> > :>
:> > :> : Pipes REQUIRE multitasking.
:> > :>
:> > :> : Pipe are an INTER-PROCESS COMMUNICATION method....*NOT*
:> > :> : short-hand for system-generated tempfiles between seperately
:> > :> : run processes.
:> > :>
:> > :> Dos didn't even techncially have seperate one-at-a-time processes.
:> > :> By the CS meanings of the word, it had one process that lived
:> > :> forever, frequently replacing it's code with a new load from an
:> > :> EXE or COM file.
:> >
:> > : Oh god, that's sick.
:> >
:> > Not really - just what it means to be not multiprocessing.
:> > This is the same way all other non-multiprocess OSes were.
:> >
:> > When a program ends and another starts, the OS doesn't do
:> > the same sort of process-shutdown stuff that it does on
:> > a multiprocessing system. It doesn't close files. It doesn't
:> > free up memory. If a program dies prematurely, it leaves
:> > junk behind. In Unix parlance, think of it like this:
:> > The text segment contains the OS, and the COMMAND.COM
:> > shell, and the TSRs and the currently loaded program,
:> > but this is all in the same 'text segment', with one
:> > 'context record' that threads between these routines. When
:> > the currently loaded program dies and a new one is loaded,
:> > the portion of the 'text segment' containing the OS, the
:> > COMMAND.COM, and the TSRs stays in place, and the portion
:> > containing the program is 'exec'ed to bring in the new image,
:> > but the PROCESS never really goes through a process-death
:> > and restart cycle, because the OS, COMMAND.COM and TSRs are
:> > all part of the one big process and they can't be killed.
:>
:>
:> Ah, ok. From your original description, it sounded like even the
:> in-memory image of COMMAND.COM gets over-written every time the user
:> runs a command, and that upon completion, COMMAND.COM gets reloaded...
: You've never run DOS on a machine without a hard drive then. When you kill
: your app it asks for the disk with command.com
Oh, crimeny. I didn't even know that when I posted my earlier
post. That's even lamer than how I thought it worked.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux
Date: 28 Feb 2001 20:53:16 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Steve Mading wrote:
:>
:> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>
:> : Steve Mading wrote:
:> :>
:> :> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> :>
:> :> : Panzers go "blub blub blub" without a dock to land them on.
:> :> : Beachheads are not docks.
:> :>
:> :> By that argument, the Normady landings never would have had any tanks
:> :> in them, and they DID.
:>
:> : You must remember...we BROUGHT our own docks.
:>
:> Very true. And this makes your point about not being able to get
:> panzers across the channel rather moot. It could have worked.
:> The allies proved this later. Thank you for shooting down your own
:> argument for me.
: The Mulberry docks were a brilliant innovation. There is little
: reason to believe that anybody else would have done the same thing.
: For example, despite hundreds of beach-head landings in the Pacific
: (which, like it's name, is a relatively peaceful ocean), none of the
: belligerants *EVER* used such a dock...or even built any.
Or needed to. Tanks are, to put it mildly, less than ideal for
use on south pacific islands, even if you had a way to land them.
Large unbroken grassy land is the tank's friend. Tanks were needed
in France's farmland, but would be pointless somwhere with more
rugged terrain.
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:05:17 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
snip
>
> even that braindead piece of shit called "notepad"
>
snip
>
For what kind of job they created notepad ? Imagine, somebody with a
head-like thing on his shoulders has really programmed this sad caricatur
of an editor. It's so bad that I prefer the good old MS-DOS-Editor.
Cheers
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Using S.u.S.E. 5.3 and SuSE 7.0
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:06:44 -0500
Steve Mading wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : Gerry wrote:
> :>
> :> Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> :>
> :> > MB is not a measurement of bandwidth, you need a reference to a time
> :> > period also.
> :>
> :> "They don't go very far back, nowaday"
> :>
> :> I think that is a reference to a time period.
> :>
> :> 35MB of ANYTHING is a lot. But 35 MB of pointless signatures is someone
> :> who is looking for confrontation.
>
> : Wrong. It PREVENTS confrontation by exposing the habitual slanderer's
> ~~~~~~~~
> You misspelled "making accusations of". Nobody who doesn't already agree
> with your assesment of those individuals is going to be swayed just
> because of your signature. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that
> people stop arguing with you merely because they get sick of doing it,
Whatever works.
But that doesn't explain the near simultaneous cessations of such
activities by a wide number of people when I first adopted my .sig
> not because of your sig.
>
> : methods before they strike again.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:07:42 -0500
Steve Mading wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : Gerry wrote:
> :>
> :> Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> :>
> :> > > Duh! I suppose it's because you want to force people to download that
> :> > > sorry BS thousands of times over ?
> :> >
> :> > People are lazy. If you want people to be aware of something,
> :> > then it's necessary to put it in a place where they cannot
> :> > avoid finding it.
> :>
> :> When you say "people are" I think you should put "I am".
> :> You are so lazy that instead of dealing with the problem in a mature
> :> fashion, you just add another entry to your signature.
>
> : People who are too lazy to hit the "next article" key upon seeing the
> : top of a .sig are tooo fucking lazy to click on a URL
>
> Hitting "next article" doesn't save the already-wasted bandwith
> the sig is taking up.
You miss the point entirely.
The purpose of the .sig is to communicate a message.
That message is not very well communicated if it's never presented.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
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