Linux-Advocacy Digest #562, Volume #25 Wed, 8 Mar 00 17:13:11 EST
Contents:
Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or Linux
(Salvatore Denaro)
Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K (Wolfgang Weisselberg)
Re: New Linux Exclusive Website! (david parsons)
Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or Linux
(Salvatore Denaro)
Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K (Michael Wand)
Re: I've been Cleansed (Michael Wand)
Re: Salary? (Peter Morris)
Re: Salary? (Peter Morris)
Re: Salary? (Peter Morris)
Re: Salary? (Peter Morris)
Re: Salary? (Peter Morris)
Re: Salary? (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Salary? (Matthias Warkus)
Re: The Windows GUI vs. X (Re: Windows 2000 is pretty reliable) (Matthias Warkus)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Salvatore Denaro)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or
Linux
Date: 8 Mar 2000 21:06:11 GMT
On 7 Mar 2000 15:13:38 GMT, John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>: Yawn. Linux testimonials are starting to get a little boring. [...]
>
>OK, I've had a little time, and I think I can address why this should not
>be boring:
Please don't tell me what I should and should not find interesting. My
opinions are my own and when I say that _I_ am finding linux testimonials
boring please trust that _I_ really do find them boring.
For future reference here are a list of other things I find boring:
1) Stories about how cute your cats are
2) Conspiracy theories about the NSA and FEMA lifted directly from
X-Files episodes
3) Knock-knock jokes
4) Stock tips about that company you think you heard about on CNN
last month that makes that thing for the internet
5) Did you hear the one about the guy who woke up in a bathtub full
of ice and had his kidneys stolen?
Trust me on this, I've heard them all before and unless you have sone
really great linux story; I'VE HEARD IT. I read slashdot too.
>You and others are correct that Apple does not need to use the Linux
>kernel to enguage the Linux movement. I think their current plan is too
>centered on the "Darwin alternative", while they wish Linux would just go
>away.
That's odd. They just added ppclinux.apple.com to the web. I don't see
them marketing darwin as anything other than open source to aid OSX
developers. And I don't see them doing _anything_ pro or con to market
Darwin to anyone but OSX developers.
And what makes you think that Apple wants Linux to just go away?
>Linux the kernel and Linux the movement. That's because it _is_ a muddle
>in the real world, together with concepts like "open source" and "free
>software". Treating Linux as just a kernel or just a particularly-named
>movement is self-deceiving.)
Linux is a subset of a larger open source community. It isn't _the_
open source community; it is just a part of it.
>2. The Apple User perspective
>
>I have met some otherwise bright and talented people who view the world
>though a filter. They have simplified their lives by making Apple their
>"technology provider". These are the kind of people (perhaps a minority
>among Mac users) who could not even see a technology like XML until it was
>released in the context of an Apple OS.
<sarcasm>
I have met some otherwise bright and talented people who view the world
though a filter. They have simplified their lives by making LINUX their
"technology provider". These are the kind of people (perhaps a minority
among LINUX users) who could not even see a technology like intergrated
desktops until it was released in the context of LINUX.
</sarcasm>
John, please get off the Apple zealot kick. We all know that Apple
doesn't have a monopoly on idiots.
--
Salvatore Denaro
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wolfgang Weisselberg)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K
Date: 8 Mar 2000 21:30:09 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:23:36 -0500,
Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Jim Richardson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > If M$ is claiming that W2K is "the most secure windows ever"
> > where is the C2 rating for W2K? What evaluation method are they
> > using to make that claim?
> Give them time, it takes time for an OS to be C2 evaluated.
Time will tell ... for example that you need a system to be
certified. Not just an OS. Wheels and engine do not a car make.
> Side note: MS supplies FULL source code for C2 evaluation. As far as
> security evaluation goes, they "open source" Windows to real experts
> (instead of anonymous net'xperts)
So you are saying that anonymous net'xperts like, say Linus or
Alan Cox or RMS or ESR or Larry Wall or Randal Schwarz or [insert
name list of people who happen to have written major parts of
important software (on which the internet runs, like BIND, etc.)
or are kernel maintainers for some open OS or ...] can't code
their way out of a paperback or are not on the net, yes?
And you imply that Joe Random, Minesweeper Consultant and
Solitaire Expert, is a better coder? Say, what's the programming
or debugging fame of these people? They are the anonymous grey
people here.
Isn't that akin to saying that the people who invented the 'encryption'
in Word[0] or in the DVDs are better in that field than, say Bruce Schneier?
These C2 guys look for obvious logical errors, not for non-obvious
coding bugs. Which should be done around the time any software
gets alpha. Beta is for the non-obvous bugs.[1]
And as for "open source" ... ROFL. They are not even allowed to
express dissatisfaction, right? And certainly no benchmarks.
Unless OK'd by M$ themselves.
-Wolf"but then you are trolling ... again ... "gang
[0] Laughable is too good. It's just an XOR over the password,
over and over and over. Running over quite a few known, fixed
bytes. Automatic decryption is trivial.
[1] Not to spit in the C2 process, but it's a lot of red,
expensive tape ... cut lengthwise. It's important as far as
standards and checking for logical bugs goes, but it's not
tiger teams attacking the system.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (david parsons)
Subject: Re: New Linux Exclusive Website!
Date: 8 Mar 2000 12:26:32 -0800
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[Long boring rant about how homosexuals are going to rape our women,
kill and eat our children, vote Democratic, and otherwise despoil
America and steal away our Precious Bodily Fluids]
So, if I've got this (heh) straight, you've given up on Linux and are
now spamming the .advocacy newsgroup because you've noticed that one
or two Admitted! Homosexuals! are using it. Boy, this sort of wild
overreaction must make your life really interesting. But do keep up
your level of hysteria -- it can't do anything but help equal rights
when our foes (that would be you, Hon) are as irrational as you are.
What are you going to do when you discover homosexuals using Windows?
Burn your computer and retreat to the Maine woods, so you can be safe
from electronic contamination?
>And rightfully so. It is a sickness that God is dealing with via AIDS.
If you look at the worldwide death figures, being poor is a sickness
that G-d is dealing with via AIDS, and first-world homosexuals (and
hemophiliacs, and IV drug users) are simply collatoral damage. But
this doesn't seem to be consistant with the all-loving G-d the
christians keep talking about, so it's quite likely that it's just
another random epidemic that will be dealt with by advances in
medical technology, like influenza was.
____
david parsons \bi/ Now influenza, that used to be a really nasty disease
\/ in the first world; AIDS is too slow to be a really
good pandemic.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Salvatore Denaro)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or
Linux
Date: 8 Mar 2000 21:32:46 GMT
On 8 Mar 2000 14:06:09 GMT, John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Why didn't Apple make a Quicktime player for Linux?
Linux has 4% of the desktop and 25% of servers shipped last year. What
would have a better chance of getting used, a quicktime _server_
targeted to people to push video to the 90% of users that use Windows
and Macs or a client for the 4% of users that use Linux?
Second, in order to port Quicktime to windows, Apple had to port a large
amount of Quickdraw. After all, CARBON is based on QuickTime. This might
take a large investment in man hour that Apple might not think is worth
it when the majority of Linux use is on the server side and not the
desktop side.
The Quicktime _file format_ is a published standard. In fact, it is the
basis of the MPEG4 file format standard. The CODECs on the other hand
are owned by others. It might cost Apple money to port the CODECs to
Linux.
My pet theory is that Apple wants to move QuickTime from the "free
client" to the "Publishing tool" market. When MPEG4 is finalized, anyone
using FinalCut (or iMovie for that matter) should be able to save their
movie into MPEG4 format so that anyone with a MPEG4 client should be
able to open it and play it. No need for Apple to write QT for the
Playstation 3 or QT for the Palm CXVII.
In that scenario, Apple has a very strong voice in the standards end of
the process; leverage their reputation in multimedia, be able to license
their technology to others and only have to write client code for the
platforms they think they need to reach; while they still reach other
platforms they don't want to spend resources on.
>They certainly didn't owe it to anyone, but why did they decide not to
>make friends?
Are you assuming that there was some conscious effort not to port
things to Linux? What makes you think this?
<sarcasm>
Gee... maybe they used a penguin in the Quicktime Logo just to taunt
the Linux users.
</sarcasm>
--
Salvatore Denaro
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Michael Wand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K
Date: 08 Mar 2000 21:12:31 +0100
Hello Chad,
sorry for the late reply. I'm just too busy these days. I've reordered
the quoting a bit.
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 1. Hotmail is not mainly running NT, i.e. they are running other OS's.
> 1.) Why would Microsoft expend the effort, time and money to
> port to NT when Windows2000 Win64 was coming out and Itanium
> is coming out?
I guess this means "yes".
> > 3. Microsoft could easily have ported Hotmail to NT, if they had *really*
> > wanted.
> 3.) No one could've easily ported Hotmail to anything. In fact,
> they didn't even easily write it in the first place, it
> required a major overhaul of Slowaris, which I'm sure is not
> any small task.
Sorry. With "easy", I mean they could have done it in the given time.
Provided they had wanted!
> > 4. If Microsoft cannot do a migration in more than one year, who else
> > can do it? Who might even think of using an OS that needs two
> > years to migrate to?
> > You lose.
> 4.) If the potential benefits outweigh the benefits of sticking
> (and hacking with) Slowaris, why not migrate? Two years of
*If* it does, yeah.
> > 7. Hotmail runs well with what is running now.
> 7.) Of course it doesn't. It runs like crap because it's bandaided
> together.
Besides the fact that I don't think it runs "like crap", is this a
true reason? Being able to choose the best OS for every part of the
system vs having to use one definite OS.
> > 9. You don't need NT to run Hotmail.
> 9.) You don't need Slowaris either.
^^^^^^
Of course not. The question was if you *desperately* *need* NT.
> Have you recompiled your kernel today?
Have you "tweaked" your registry today?
Michael
------------------------------
From: Michael Wand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I've been Cleansed
Date: 08 Mar 2000 21:52:40 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> After wasting some where near a month TRYING in vain to switch to
> Linux I have finally found my home, and that is Windows 98 SE.
OK. (Without having read the rest of your posting.)
Michael
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Morris)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:57:54 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No vacancies in MY company. No. I'm a contract programmer. It seems as
though throughout the world, the UK leads with regard to contract
programmers.
If you're interested, check out www.jobserve.com. But be prepared to
start paying US$4.60 for a gallon of petrol. (GB�0.81 per litre)
I think I've got that right.
PAM.
__________ "Big Circle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> __________
>Can you tell us your duties and daily works?
>Any vacancies in your company?
>
>
>Peter Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Underpaid? That's interesting because whenever I've talked to people
>> about working in the USA, they've always quoted less that I was
>> earning in UK.
>> I'm currently an A/P earning over US$100K. 35hr a week but admittedly,
>> no benefits.
>>
>> PAM.
>>
>> __________ Tim Hockin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> __________
>> >In comp.os.linux.misc Peter Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >: Having said that I'd guess that as you've left school and it's an
>> >: admin job I'd go for about GB20K which would be about US$30K which
>> >: works out at about ....oh dear, US$10.27/hr. Perhaps I have my sums
>> >: wrong.
>> >
>> >IT folk are underpaid in GB or overpaid in US :) Starting admin job in
>CA
>> >40-60k, depending on experience (maybe more for high-power jobs) and
>> >depending on stock options/benefits. less than 40 is crazy - especially
>in
>> >California.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Tim Hockin
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >This program has been brought to you by the language C and the number F.
>>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Morris)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:57:56 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The original article said Linux Administrator. So as I wasn't sure
what one was I was a bit on the Scrooge side for you. No I see that
it's a System Administrator. That to me is a different kettle of fish
altogether.
I'd go for around about US$60K - US$70K. However, it also depends on
the type of business you are working in.
PAM.
__________ [EMAIL PROTECTED] __________
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 1. Charge what you think you're worth in that job. US$20/hr? US$40/hr?
>> What? If you feel quite happy getting US$15/hr and then find that
>> you're being undervalued in this position as everyone is earning more
>> than you, I expect you'd be a little miffed. Am I right? And yet you
>> were quite happy to accept the US$15/hr in the first place. People are
>> so greedy.
>
>
>It's not so much a question of greed; merely fairness. I've been in
>the position before where I got hired on at a wage, then discovered
>a few months down the road that someone that does an inferior job
>(by my estimation and management's appraisals) was hired on at - and
>was continuing to make - significantly more than what I was making.
>So no, not greed exactly. I just don't want to repeat that sort of
>rude slap in the face through naivety.
>
>
>> Having said that I'd guess that as you've left school and it's an
>> admin job I'd go for about GB�20K which would be about US$30K which
>> works out at about ....oh dear, US$10.27/hr. Perhaps I have my sums
>> wrong.
>
>Doing some quick math, that works out to around $14.50/hr assuming
>$30,000 gross annual income, 40 hours a week. I was thinking low- to
>mid-thirties, but if sysadmins are routinely making $45k+ I'd feel
>like I low-balled myself (doing the same work for less pay). Hence
>my inquiry.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Morris)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:58:15 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
That's interesting. I was looking at working in Belgium (contracting)
and was told that I'd be paying a max of about 25% in taxes...etc. On
average I'd be paying 20%. A few people I know who are out there said
that this is true.
Perhaps we are all wrong and the Taxman will be after my friends.
PAM.
__________ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael C. Vergallen)
__________
>In Belgium the total Tax burdon is at 55 % on incomes. 21 % on goods
>purchased. Now they also want to tax capital gains at 20 - 30 %. Life is
>realy expensive. If you don't inherit or are corrupt you have no chance of
>getting ahead ... Now they also want to tax capital you won't even be able
>to get ahead by inheriting... My 110 square meter flat is valued at 75000
>Euro. So this makes property value aprox 700 Euro a square meter in Gent
>witch is not a expensive city compared to Brussels.
>
>Michael
>
>--
>Michael C. Vergallen A.k.A. Mad Mike,
>Sportstraat 28 http://www.double-barrel.be/mvergall/
>B 9000 Gent ftp://ftp.double-barrel.be/pub/linux/
>Belgium tel : 32-9-2227764 Fax : 32-9-2224976
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Morris)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:58:17 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Exactly what I'm doing Matt. I'm contracting as an AP, getting a load
of cash and then retiring to New Zealand where the cost of living is
alot cheaper than here. I have a house there and a nice large piece of
land so noone can build near me and it's all paid for.
I probably have enough now but I would like a safety barrier 'just in
case'. Hopefully retire at the age of 38.
After that it's a case of pottering around doing things I want to and
ditching any jobs thast I find too much hassle.
PAM.
__________ "Matt O'Toole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> __________
>If you happen to like that kind of thing, it's still much better to have the
>option, don't you think? You don't have to spend it all. Instead, you can
>save and invest it, and retire early, with more. Wouldn't it be great to be
>able to say "take this job and shove it," and spend your time writing open
>source software instead? ;-)
>
>Matt O.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Morris)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:58:20 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was going to say that you're wrong in 'that in Europe technical
people are at the bottom of the totem pole' but perhaps you are right.
I was getting better and better. More technical and 'going guru'.
However the pay was shite so I went contracting as an A/P (a few steps
back) and have been ever since. More cash, less worries, no politics.
The only problem I face now is the IR35*. So I may leave the country.
*IR35: Part of the finance bill the UK "LABOUR" government is getting
through so that contractors like me end up paying their fair share of
National Health Insurance instead of being able to dodge round it
using loopholes in the law and save at least GB�10K for themselves.
Also over in UK, people I guess tend to be promoted to their level of
incompetance because it's the done thing and it's not wise to turn
down promotion not at least because you wont't get anymore money
(apart from negligable cost of living) if you stay where you are in a
job you are good at.
PAM.
__________ JCA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> __________
> The problem is that in Europe technical people are at the bottom of the
>totem pole, no matter how good they are. The only place I know of where
>that doesn't necessarily happen is the US. The result: the US produces
>the best software in the world, and any good European software is developed
>
>by universities, not by private companies.
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:49:46 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:02:32 GMT...
...and Brian Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Mr. Rupert" wrote:
>
> > Matthias Warkus wrote:
> > > As for salaries, they aren't necessarily
> > > lower, if they're lower, that's usually compensated by a much lower
> > > number of workhours per week and per lifetime.
> > >
> >
> > The reduced number of workhours is strangling your country.
> >
> or perhaps the larger number of workhours is strangling our country?
> :) I'm just starting my career, so don't have the chance at this
> point, but in the future if I can afford to do so, I will definatly
> choose a shorter workweek instead of a bigger check.. what good's
> the check if your working all the time and can't enjoy it?
A pity that this American problem is strangling other countries, too.
Because the Americans work their asses off without any real need to do
so, pressure is put on other countries.
This is what we call a "race to the bottom". Hopefully it won't end by
throwing the whole world back to a Manchester 1830 level.
mawa
--
An Amiga a day keeps the Apples away
-- David Jung, U. of Adelaide, S. Oz.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:47:54 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:06:38 GMT...
...and Vilmos Soti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Mr. Rupert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > Seriously: The standard of living here in Germany is rather higher
> > > than in the United States.
> >
> > In what respect is the standard of living higher in Germany than in the
> > USA?
>
> Crime. Can you safely walk in *ANY* US city after dark?
>
> Health care. How many, people, millions, tens of millions, don't have
> insurance in the US? Yes, the US has a very good (and dishonest)
> health care system, but only if you can afford it.
>
> Education.
Germany has got the best educational system in the whole damn world.
That at least was the opinion of U.S. educational experts who came to
my country when the Clinton administration took over to study our
system in order to plan reforms.
Fun fact: Microsoft Encarta mentions Germany's formidable system of
publicly-financed universities rather near the start of the "Germany"
article, in rather amazed terms. ;)
> > The reduced number of workhours is strangling your country.
>
> I work so I can have a good living. I don't live so I can have a good
> work/job/empolyment.
Yup. Germany is a relaxed country. People can't imagine this because
they know our Prussia-dominated past, but all through the centuries,
we've only waited to break free from that stranglehold. A shame it
took a series of catastrophic cataclysms to get us here.
We're centuries late. But now we're Relaxing with capital R. And I
don't really think it's a problem. Who cares whether we're number two,
number three or number four in the world.
In Germany, we've got lots of people (especially the elderly) who
accept having their pay reduced a bit, but at the same time having
their per-week and per-lifetime number of working hours reduced even
more, proportionally.
mawa
--
THE THREE MANTRAS OF META-OPTIMISM (by mawa)
I. Everything's gonna be all right.
II. I'll always believe that everything's gonna be all right.
III. I'll always be able to believe everything's gonna be all right.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Windows GUI vs. X (Re: Windows 2000 is pretty reliable)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:53:28 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:19:52 -0500...
...and Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike Kenzie wrote:
>
> > So having no choice of widgets is a feature now. And the Blue Screen is
> > not my idea of great graphics.
>
> But with Windows, you don't _have_ to use the default widgets in the
> Win32 API. You can override it with your own.
Then what's the point of having the default widgets at all?
(Yeah. That's tongue-in-cheek if you didn't notice.)
> Guys, it's OK to like Motif.
You are missing an important point. Compared to GTK+ or Qt, Motif is
medieval technology. It's a pain in the rear to program. Ever
contemplated how many lines it takes to write a simple GUI "hello,
world" program in Motif, as opposed to GTK+ or Qt?
mawa
--
schmooz, n.:
Darkish substance made of fat, dirt and hair.
schmooz collector, n.:
Little foot a computer mouse glides upon. Collects -->schmooz.
------------------------------
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