Linux-Advocacy Digest #631, Volume #32 Sun, 4 Mar 01 06:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Linux Joke ("Edward Rosten")
Re: How would you do this with Linux ? (B'ichela)
Re: MS executives at LinuxWorld Expo (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (Ed Allen)
Re: Judge Harry Edwards comments.... (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: NT vs *nix performance (Aaron Kulkis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:57:47 +0000
>> I start freaking out. There's something I can't stand about Windows,
>> but I can't figure it out. I have to have a command line, and when I
>> can't have a command line, I can feel my brain cells start to stagnate.
>> I suffer from sensory deprivation. Windows just seems devoid of all
>> intellectual activities.
>
> You're a throwback. You like to stay with the command line and stagnate.
So is that why Win2K now has a telnet server and improved command line
tools?
>> When I run Windows, I get this closed-in, claustrophobic feeling.
>
> When I run Linux, I get the closed-in, claustrophobic feeling...
I side with Donn on this one. Click to focus is just plain ugly.
>> With Linux, I feel as if I have more space to roam intellectually.
>
> With Windows, I feel as if I have more space to roam intellectually, oh
> b*****r, the damn thing just crashed!
Kind of wrecks your train of thought...
>> I feel as though I am free, frolicking out in a spacious field
>> someplace, using the window manager I want to use, the toolkit I want
>> to use.
>
> With Linux I can feel the restraints of too many toolkits and the
> ugliness of multiple window managers all straining to get their fingers
> on me.
With Windows, your stuck with the extreme ugliness of one windowmanager.
>> I can run
>> top and ps and find out exactly what is running, and where it is
>> running.
>
> On Windows, I couldn't care less what is running.
Could explain the crashing...
>> I get an exact number for CPU usage and memory consumption of any
>> process or application, and what state each process it is in.
>
> On Windows, CPU usage and memory consumption are just not interesting.
> Except when I run Windows 2000 then I can see.
How do they become more intersting on Win2K?
>> But most of all, I don't have to hit control+alt+delete, and try to
>> guess which instance of a program is hanging. And furthermore, when I
>> kill something, it dies right then and there.
>
> Even on Linux, I bet you can get a process that won't die.
I've never had one. I can even kill this process:
main{
while(!fork())
}
since it has a nice killall program.
>> With Windows, you never know if something is going to die or not, and
>> if you've even got the correct instance of the app you want to kill.
>
> On Windows I can keep on killing a process until either it dies or I
> take out the whole shebang!
Yup. Frequently the whole shebang comes befor the process.
>> Unix is an example of an operating system that was designed properly
>> the first time. Windows 9x and NT seem amateurish by design. They are
>> designs that assume every computer user is an idiot, and that all
>> computer users like using something just because a company tells you
>> it's good, or because it's popular.
>
> UNIX is an example of a system that was designed too long ago, and got
> many things wrong. Every piece is a hotpotch affair, all pulling in
> different directions.
Could you back this with more than 1 example. The cli tools + piping is
one axample of a very elegant design o parts pulling in the same
direction.
> Windows 9x is a botched design, a quick hack to keep the punters happy.
> Windows NT is where we should be, and maybe with Whistler, if they don't
> impose this silly key system on us.
WinNT is no way as good as UNIX. That's why Micros~1 is trying to make it
in to a UNIX.
>> In Windows, I am locked into a stale, closed, but yet comfortable room
>> with no windows and no fresh air. With unix, I am frolicking in the
>> wide-open field, doing the activities I want to do, not what some idiot
>> company feels I should be using.
>
> In Windows there is so much to choose from,
Like what?
> so much innovation and fresh
Oh yeah. I can't live without the drop-shadow cursor and fading menus.
> air; in Linux everything is old and crumbling and reeks of yesterday.
What fresh air. Are GNOME and KDE older than windows?
>> Windows has gotten better, but its design is indeed amateurish compared
>> to unix.
>
> Windows gets better every release and has long run away from the
> plodding lumbering juggernaut that is UNIX.
Yep rnu in the oppersite direction and jumped down a hole.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Joke
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:58:30 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chris Ahlstrom"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Q. Why does the Linux user constantly obtain
> upgrades of the kernel and other OS facilities?
>
> A. Because he can.
A: Because he believed the FUD.
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela)
Subject: Re: How would you do this with Linux ?
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:29:44 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:38:02 +0000, Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Try 1 server with some low-cost linux workstations - terminals are very
>> hard to find and Pentium 66 machines can be purchased used for about $40
>
>You haven't looked :-) Try www.wyse.com. Although P66 machines are cheap,
>dumb terminals have no moving parts and are very reliable.
You can find used VT220 termials for a song if you know the
sources. I got a Vt100, two Rainbow 100s (they are computers with
built in vt102 terminal emulation in rom) and a wyse-50. I did not pay a
dime for any of these! using standard Rs232 you can use agetty from linux
to run them.
>
>In fact, IIRC you can ge tlittle boxes with an ethernet port on one end
>and a bunch of serial ports on the other end. That would be smaller and
>more reliable than an old PC.
Hmm. Interesting where do I get a 10base2 version of this box?
My lan is fully thin-net coax. How does one use agetty with these?
>I don't think a P200 would wel server 100 dumb terminals, but a beefier
>computer would. Or, you could beef up the terminal servers a bit and do
>some processing on them.
Wait a second. why would a Pentium 200 MHZ machine not be able
to serve 100 terminals? Providing you can find a 100 port Serial card
you certainly CAN! You did not mention how much Memory would be
required. with the way computers are stuffed with RAM (32MB, 64MB?)
you can certainly serve ASCII.
>
>I've set up 486's and 386's as dumb terminald. I got away with 250M HDDs.
>Using Linux as dumb terminals, you can get nicer text, such as 100x37.
>
>I have also used some 286s as dumb terminals. I put NCSA telnet and
>TCP/IP drivers on them and the autoexec.bat forced them to telnet to one
>specified machine. The hard disk on one died so it was checked when
>someone switched it off.
Did both types of install. I have NCSA telnet running on a
486sx and 8088 based machine. As well as a simple linux client machine
plugged in via my 10base2 lan. with type 1 (ncsa telnet) even a tiny
HD will run it. with the second a small 200MB hd works ok. (machine
gets its its files via NFS and nis for user authentication. services.
first type of install is ideal for your office as this
prohibits users adding "cruft" to the system. The second is good for a
more advanced uses such as running X.
Having to manage BOTH I prefer the NCSA telnet paradign as
then I don't have to setup NFS/NIS on the machine. All a user does is
telnet into the main system machine. These type of setups will not
flood a 10base2 lan with extra data unlike the full linux system
getting the files via NFS/NIS.
BTW the easiest install is simply a Vt100 or Vt102 sitting on
a desk. This only needs to be setup and left alone!
--
B'ichela
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MS executives at LinuxWorld Expo
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 05:56:50 -0500
Rex Ballard wrote:
>
> Charlie Ebert wrote:
> >
> >
> > It is MY FIRM belief that Microsoft should have been planned
> > for a 3 way split of the company.
>
> They like the idea of splitting. But they don't like the idea of
> splitting up
> the management team. They don't like the idea of isolating the
> development team.
> I recently attended a "pitch meeting" in which one of the customer reps
> had
> published e-mail to 5 people asserting that the SQL Server 2000 team had
> special information and a special relationship with the OS
> organization.
> The Microsoft rep made a similar assertion. When I put it in very
> strict
> legal terms - do you have exclusive access to information that IBM,
> Oracle,
> and Sybase DON'T have access to? They avoided the question by asking
> where
> the wire was, pulling the hand's free unit of my cell-phone, and asking
> me to
> show them that it wasn't turned on and dialed in.
>
> They quickly switched to other topics and never answered the question.
> The
> result was that Executives were left with the impression that Microsoft
> did
> have exclusive information. Meanwhile, the DBA, Systems Architect, and
> Operations manager were asking why we were willing to commit to an
> incompatible
> database. All of those who had had to deal with scaling problem were
> opposed
> to the use of something that couldn't be ported to UNIX. The executives
> eventually
> ordered us to write an unqualified reccomendation of SQL Server 2000 on
> Windows 2000
> for use in any application. Two of us are no longer dealing with that
> company.
>
> > #1 would be the OS division.
>
> If the OS division couldn't force the inclusion of Works or Office,
> Microsoft couldn't
> price Windows competitively. The "all or nothing" approach has been
> effective, but
> this could easily result in felony criminal charges under the Judge's
> order.
>
> > #2 would be the development tools and databases division.
>
> This would again place Microsoft in a toe-to-toe slugging match with the
> Linux
> distribution. Java, Perl, C++, TCL, and Qt would reduce Microsoft's
> market share
> to less than 20%. Microsoft feels that it's rightful share of this
> market in 95%,
> anything less would cause the stock to crash even more than it already
> has.
>
> > #3 would be the applications division.
>
> Microsoft would then have to make a decision. If they published Office
> for Linux, the OS stock Tools/Database stock would be worthless.
> If they published exclusively for Windows, they would face direct
> competition with Corel and StarOffice. Now that Microsoft owns enough
> of Corel to order the CEO around, they can kill one member of the
> market. StarOffice would become the dominant cross-platform solution.
> Meanwhile, Microsoft would lose control of formats and standards.
Basically, Microsoft has absolutely *NO* *WAY* *OUT*.
Their business model has a foundation-level principle beyond all of this:
Ignorant consumers are very easily impressed by technology.
All M$ has had to do is *dribble* out the improvements, while
making sure that the marketing department has 10,000W of power
going to the speaker stacks, so as to sell minor improvements
as if they are revolutionary "innovations"
Linux comes into the poker game as some sort of vampiric entity,
which GAINS strength every time Microsoft successfully bilks
yet another business.
>
> > >--
> > >Rex Ballard
> > >Information Technology Architect
> > >Open Systems/Open Source Advocate
> > >http://www.open4success.com
> >
> > --
> > Charlie
> >
> > **DEBIAN** **GNU**
> > / / __ __ __ __ __ __ __
> > / /__ / / / \/ / / /_/ / \ \/ /
> > /_____/ /_/ /_/\__/ /_____/ /_/\_\
> > http://www.debian.org
>
> --
> Rex Ballard
> It Architect
> http://www.open4success.com
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 11:01:02 GMT
In article <ERio6.213$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Ed Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> "It's not illegal if you don't get caught."
>>
>> Sounds like sock-puppet wisdom to me.
>
>I said nothing about anything being legal or not. I said, that this hasn't
>been asserted in any court and there appears to be no evidence to support
>this claim. Without any kind of evidence, acting like it's fact is simply
>false.
>
Not everything is available online or in court yet. The story of
the coercion of a German OEM, Voibus, I think was how they spelled it
comes from a former M$ executive in "Barbarians Led By Bill Gates."
The amazing thing to me was that admitting such things did not seem
to the exec to be at all serious.
--
GPL says
"What's mine is ours,
If you make *OUR* stuff better the result is still ours."
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Judge Harry Edwards comments....
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 05:59:09 -0500
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> >Thanks for the research, Charlie.
> >
> >It's always cool to learn something new...especially if it utterly
> >contradicts a lie you've heard so many times
> >
>
> You did not LIE.
>
> You could SAY it was a PUBLIC OPINION at the time for 60 years and
> this PUBLIC OPINION seeminly continues on to THIS DAY and I would
> like it to finally die as it actually DIED in 1975.
I think you misunderstood my sentiments.
AT&T started the lie that they had a congressionally-authorized monopoly.
Regardless of whether I, or anybody else intends to lie, repeating
the AT&T story is spreading a lie.
>
> And I think it was an argument in good faith that had not been actually
> tested in a court of law, EVER! Not until 1975 did the test happen
> and it was reinforced again in 1982 in another judicial legislative
> slap on the hand!
>
> Charlie
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 06:00:37 -0500
JS PL wrote:
>
> But your IQ theory only applies to those in the 50 to 120 range.
> Since I'm 160 I can see the obvious. There's no possible monopoly
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is your IQ scored in dog points?
> when theres always been a huge number of OS choices.
> http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Software/Operating_Systems/
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
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