Linux-Advocacy Digest #612, Volume #33 Sat, 14 Apr 01 20:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Minix (Re: Fun With Old Laptops. (:) (J Sloan)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (GreyCloud)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. ("Alex
Chaihorsky")
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (Greg Cox)
Re: NT is stagnant while Linux explodes (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: To Eric FunkenBush (GreyCloud)
Re: To Eric FunkenBush (GreyCloud)
Re: there's always a bigger fool (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Article: Windows XP won't support USB 2.0 (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Minix (Re: Fun With Old Laptops. (:) (Donn Miller)
Re: Linux = CHOICE! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Minix (Re: Fun With Old Laptops. (:)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:36:56 GMT
Donn Miller wrote:
> Ray Chason wrote:
>
> > A couple of weeks ago I sprung for a TI Travelmate 4000. 486DX2/40,
> > 8 MB RAM, 200 MB disk, $75.
>
> You're lucky; I just found an old 486 DX/33, and it has less than 4 MB
> of RAM. I installed Minix on it, and plan to use it as a router or
> something.
Does minix even have a tcp/ip stack?
Just curious,
jjs
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:38:16 -0700
Peter da Silva wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Paul Repacholi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva) writes:
> > > And on top of that, I don't know of any DEC operating system that
> > > uses a ^Z as an end-of-file marker. The ones I'm familiar with all
> > > use fairly complex record-oriented files.
>
> > Ah, let see. TOPS-20, Tops-10, RSX, RT, RSTS, FOCAL-8, VMS, and
> > another 8 system I can't remember ALL used ^Z as EOF.
>
> End of transmission, actually. I'm talking about treating ^Z as a literal
> end of file marker, like CP/M and MS-DOS do. The point is that this came
> from CP/M, not directly from DEC, and isn't evidence of the sort Aaron is
> implying.
>
> --
> `-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
> 'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
> -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Disclaimer: WWFD?
Aaron is correct. Go look it up at compaq.com (you have to go to
servers first and then you'll see vms on the left side bar in tiny
little letters.) Believe me I've used VMS for quite some time...
EOF=char(26).
Use EDIT and in it at the end of a text file is the [EOF] marker... to
exit and save is to use Ctrl-Z. In the fortran bindings its there as
well.
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Alex Chaihorsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: 14 Apr 2001 23:39:02 GMT
Reply-To: "Alex Chaihorsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Rob Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >
> > Rob Robertson wrote:
> > >
> > > Gunner � wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:47:32 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > >Let's take a nice, Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon style pure-democratic
vote:
> > > > >
> > > > >All for putting Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon up against the wall, and
> > > > >filling him full of lead, say "AYE!" All opposed, say "NAY"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Let's see how much Sliverdick likes democracy now.
> > > >
> > > > AYE! And I'll donate the ammo!
> > >
> > > Well, that's pretty silly, especially when we can use Glen's
> > > own tax money to pay for the ammo and the firing squad.
> > >
> > > Thank God we live in a country founded on the principle of
> > > inalienable, individual rights, eh?
> >
> > So far, we have two AYEs and zero NAYs.
>
> It's a qualified 'aye', of course. I wouldn't really want to vote on
> such a thing because there are no moral grounds for doing so, but as
> an online exercise in illustrating the inherent flaw in pure democracy,
> I'm all for it.
>
> _
> RR
You are all blood-thirsty bastards. He is mine - he threatened to kick my
ass (in my HOW HITLER... thread) and I promised to buy him a ticket if he
will ever feel the courage to try.
Human life is too valuable. My main concern - how to prevent him from
spreading his genes.
Alex Chaihorsky
Reno, NV
------------------------------
From: Greg Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:43:57 GMT
In article <9bads2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Paul Repacholi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva) writes:
> > > And on top of that, I don't know of any DEC operating system that
> > > uses a ^Z as an end-of-file marker. The ones I'm familiar with all
> > > use fairly complex record-oriented files.
>
> > Ah, let see. TOPS-20, Tops-10, RSX, RT, RSTS, FOCAL-8, VMS, and
> > another 8 system I can't remember ALL used ^Z as EOF.
>
> End of transmission, actually. I'm talking about treating ^Z as a literal
> end of file marker, like CP/M and MS-DOS do. The point is that this came
> from CP/M, not directly from DEC, and isn't evidence of the sort Aaron is
> implying.
>
>
It seems to me that at least the standard command line commands in CP/M
were based on DEC TOPS-10 since they were all the same. At least I
assume that TOPS-10 preceeded CP/M...
Also, TOPS-10 was the OS on Microsoft's DEC 2020 (which was eventually
replaced by a 2060) in 1980 when I joined Microsoft. At that time the
2020 was the main development machine at Microsoft for almost all
Microsoft products (BASIC, Pascal, FORTRAN, etc.).
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT is stagnant while Linux explodes
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:46:37 GMT
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>
> [snips]
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> [snips]
>
> > In any case, UNIX code has been around a *lot* longer than Windoze code,
> > and so has had much more time to be cleaned.
>
> Yes, there is that - but even with that, are we talking anywhere near a
> comparable userbase? Further, when saying "UNIX", we're actually talking a
> wide range of OSen - considerably more than the Windows variants comprise -
> so we'd have to be sure that _each_ of those, individually, got as
> significant an exposure as each Windows version did to make the cases
> comparable.
Probably not much of an issue, since most UNIXen share a common source
code base. The exception, of course, is Linux. However, it was written
to be a UNIX work-alike, so at least the initial concepts aren't
buggy.
Again, though, you're talking about a large number of different Windows,
and they, too, have their common code base, as well as a set of
code that is not in common (unless you believe that NT/2000 still use
some DOS code <grin>). Who knows, once you take out the DOS-based
windows (3.1/95/98/ME), the comparison may change?
In any case, Security-Focus counts bugs in apps as bugs in the OS,...
Bahhh, I'm not making any sense, so I'll shaddap!
I would like to see a finer breakdown between WINDOS and WINNT versions,
as I think they are much different from each other than are the various
Linux distros from each other. Hard to find good stat methodologies
on the web, though.
Chris
--
"Where do you want to hang today?"
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Eric FunkenBush
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:50:01 -0700
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
> > > Actually, it has nothing to do with templates. This is a bug with
> friend
> > > functions combined with the using declaration, which have had some known
> > > issues.
> > >
> > > In any event, the issue here has nothing to do with MI, as you claimed.
> If
> > > you knew much about C++, you'd know this, and you could have recreated
> it in
> > > a much smaller sample.
> > >
> > > You can recreate it in the following simple code that doesn't use MI at
> all.
> > > To make it work, comment out the #include and the using namespace std:
> > >
> > > #include <iostream>
> > > using namespace std;
> > > class S
> > > {
> > > public:
> > > private:
> > > int a;
> > > friend bool operator>(const S& s1, const S& s2);
> > > };
> > >
> > > bool operator>(const S& s1, const S& s2){return s1.a > s2.a;}
> > >
> > > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:OOTB6.3188$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Your example uses templates. That is most likely the issue, not the
> MI.
> > > VC
> > > > is a pre-standard compiler, and as such cannot be expected to conform
> to a
> > > > standard that did not exist when it was written.
> > > >
> > > > I'll compile them and see.
> > > >
> > > > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > I've found the programs in the book "C++ Primer Plus" by Stephen
> Prata.
> > > > >
> > > > > See attached source code.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > Then why does it compile and work correctly under g++ ??
> >
> > The compiler errors are pointing to an MI problem.
>
> No they're not. The errors are solely in the "String" class and the global
> friend operators that reference it. String is not a class that uses
> multiple inheritance.
>
> It works in g++ because g++ doesn't have this bug (of course they have no
> namespace support at all, but that's a different story).
>
Go back and look at the provided code... namespace is supported.
> > If you declare a
> > main class, then create two more classes that rely on the main class,
> > then create a third level class below all of these that require methods
> > from both upper classes, you are needing access to both classes private
> > members as declared as such.
>
> What you are describing is not MI, but rather the "Diamond" pattern virtual
> single inhertitance.
>
> Further, private class members are *NOT* accessible by derived classes, MI
> or not, unless they are friend functions. That's the point of private over
> protected members.
>
I understand that part.
> > If MS C++ can't do it but g++ can, I see a
> > problem in MS compiler....
>
> Or a bug in the g++ compiler, allowing it to do something that violates the
> standard. But, I suspect that even g++ doesn't allow what you are
> describing. And it's certainly not anything related to the sample you gave.
>
> > also in the book it provided MetroWerks
> > compiler as well and it too works on this example. In the book it
> > explains that these work under a lot of different UNIX compilers as well
> > and gives gcc or g++ commands and options.
>
> Yes, MetroWerks is a good compiler.
>
> > Again, MS C++ compiler has a problem.
>
> I already said it has a problem, the infamous friend/namespace bug. It has
> *NOTHING* to do with MI. Nothing.
Then why did Stephan Prata put this one and only program in his book
under Multiple Inheritance then? Its one of the things it was trying to
teach.
>
> I'll say it again, you should stop arguing such things with people that know
> a lot more than you do. You're just being made to look foolish.
Hardly, you haven't proven anything... a guy that comes off saying "How
great I am" and telling others they don't know what they are talking
about is the biggest fool of all.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Eric FunkenBush
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:51:09 -0700
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 03:24:16 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >Your example uses templates. That is most likely the issue, not the MI.
> VC
> > >is a pre-standard compiler, and as such cannot be expected to conform to
> a
> > >standard that did not exist when it was written.
> >
> > And what is amazing is that Microsoft does not have plans to ever release
> > a standards compliant C/C++ compiler.
>
> Why do you bitch about MS? *NOBODY* has released a fully conformant
> compiler yet.
>
> VC7 will conform in almost all ways except Partial Template Specialization
> and the export keyword.
Which makes it almost useless in a general production environment.
--
V
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: there's always a bigger fool
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:53:30 GMT
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>
> Probably not; Win2K has removed all but a handful of cases where you need to
> reboot; it is a lot nicer to work with if you do a lot of installations or
> modifications.
I agree. However, my triad of applications (Win2K, Word 2000, Visio 2000)
is very problematic (slowwwww and buggy), and I curse the name of
Microsoft hourly. In fact, I had logged in in the morning, and immediately
had weird problems. I suspected kruft from the previous day's work, so
I felt compelled to reboot. Whatever the problem was, it went away, and
Word didn't hang forever in my document again.
This is with Win 2000 SP1 and Word SR-1, so it's looking a little like
the same old gradual decay of reliability one found with NT. At least,
that's how I feel.
Chris (the silly fool)
--
"Where do you want to hang today?"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Article: Windows XP won't support USB 2.0
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:02:14 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Craig Kelley
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on 14 Apr 2001 11:39:31 -0600
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) writes:
>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote
>> on Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:13:21 -0400
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> >Tim Kelley wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dave Martel wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This is actually good news. USB2 is inferior to firewire as is SCSI.
>> >>
>> >> They will support usb 1, and there are no usb 2 devices yet anyway.
>> >>
>> >> USB 2.0 is intels ploy to kill firewire, which is clearly superior.
>> >> It doesn't have anything to do with USB 1.0
>> >>
>> >> Hopefully firewire will kill both scsi, usb 1, and usb 2, IDE,
>> >> floppy and parallel ports in one stroke. Firewire is something
>> >> we really need.
>> >
>> >Firewire does NOT replace SCSI.
>> >
>> >400 Mbits/second is only 50 MBytes/second.
>> >
>> >SCSI is at 160 MBytes/second and climbing.
>>
>> Damn.
>>
>> I need a new system. :-)
>
>You can get SCSI controllers and drives that do 320MB/s now. I'm not
>sure if it's standardized yet, though.
Considering I'm at 40 MB/s (if that!), I'm not sure it matters..... :-)
>
>--
>It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
>Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 8d:00h:54m actually running Linux.
I'm here, you're there, and that's pretty much it.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:04:44 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chad Everett
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on 14 Apr 2001 14:20:04 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:11:20 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote
>>on Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:28:26 -0400
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>Chad Everett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:09:49 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> >In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chad Everett
>>>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> > wrote
>>>> >on 12 Apr 2001 17:09:51 -0500
>>>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>> >>On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:23:02 -0600, Jerry Coffin
>>>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> >>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> >>>says...
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>[ ... ]
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Yes, and you can construct bad trees that require
>>>> >>>> exponential time to search -- in reality it rarely
>>>> >>>> happens [/me sticks his neck out on that assertation].
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>You're not really sticking it out very far -- testing with
>>>> >>>generational scavengers seems to agree quite closely.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> If you view a program as a tree of objects,
>>>> >>>> stemming from the root object, you would end up with a
>>>> >>>> tree and not a list, albeit with circular references.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Which is to say that it's a graph, not a tree. A tree would be an
>>>> >>>acyclic graph, where this is a more general graph that may contain
>>>> >>>cycles.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>A tree is an acyclic, connected graph, not just acyclic.
>>>> >
>>>> >Pedant point: so is a DAG. :-)
>>>> >
>>>> >A tree needs to include the requirement that nodes aren't entered
>>>> >more than once (they can be exited as many times as required, however).
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> This is not a requirement of a tree. It is a property of a tree when
>>>> it is explored. A tree is an acyclic, connected graph...period.
>>>>
>>>> Hey this is fun! :)
>>>
>>>Chad is correct.
>>
>>This is getting very off topic (so what else is new? :-) ) but
>>I fail to see how
>>
>>A ----------> B ----------> D
>> \ /
>> ----------> C ------>---
>>
>>can be a tree....? Granted, one can spit the node D into two
>>images: D1 and D2, but I'm obviously missing something very obvious
>>here (this sort of thing also comes up in inheritance diagrams in C++
>>and can get ugly fast).
>>
>
>You've introduced directed edges. And it is not really correct to have
>a DAG where some edges have directions and others don't.
>A tree is not a DAG, but some DAGs can be a tree.
Well, I can't draw a diagonal arrow too well; all the edges above
have a direction :-). But you're right, if the edges aren't directed,
an acyclic, connected graph (which must have N-1 edges, where N is
the number of nodes) must be a tree.
Apologies for the confusion.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random bad ASCII graphics here
EAC code #191 8d:00h:55m actually running Linux.
We are all naked underneath our clothes.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:07:11 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Minix (Re: Fun With Old Laptops. (:)
J Sloan wrote:
>
> Donn Miller wrote:
> > You're lucky; I just found an old 486 DX/33, and it has less than 4 MB
> > of RAM. I installed Minix on it, and plan to use it as a router or
> > something.
>
> Does minix even have a tcp/ip stack?
It does. http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix/2.0.0/misc/netinstall.txt
It's not enabled by default, though.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux = CHOICE!
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:08:54 -0400
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> > True, and isn't it great when a distro makes a really fucking awful
> > distro you have the opportunity to goto another vendor, and you can keep
> > changing until you find one that suites your needs. Hmm, I wonder if
> > the Wintel clan can do that, NOPE!
>
> That's because with Windows it just works
Only if you define 'just works' to mean 25 installs, 20 reboots, and
re-installations every 6-12 months.
The REST of the English speaking world calls that "barely working"
> and there's no need to hop
> vendors.
>
> --
> Pete
> Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
> Kylix: the way to go!
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
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