Linux-Advocacy Digest #302, Volume #35 Sat, 16 Jun 01 13:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: More microsoft innovation (Rick)
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" (Mark)
Re: More microsoft innovation (Rick)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Peter Hayes)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Peter Hayes)
Re: Will MS get away with this one? (Rick)
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags (The Ghost In The Machine)
PC power switch wont shut down Windows (LShaping)
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance (Rotten168)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More microsoft innovation
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:42:28 -0400
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Dan wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > If I wanted links to send people to differnt places in my page, I
> would
> > > > provide them. IF I dont, I dont want some third party sending people
> to
> > > > places I have no control over.
> > >
> > > But it's not about you. It's about the *user*. We don't expect you
> > > to anticipate *every* thing that I might be interested in.
> > >
> >
> > It IS about me, and my web page. -I- should be able to decide what is on
> > my page, not micro$oft. And, maybe I dont care what you are interested
> > in. Maybe I only care about my particular message.
> >
>
> Why should *you* decide? Why should *I* decide? It's displayed on *my*
> system, I want those SmartTags, what right do you have to not allow me them?
> And if I want to use the MS stock tags, what right do you have to tell me
> not to?
What right do you have to add tags to my page. If you dont want to look
at it, find. Dont display it. You want smart tags. Fine. Add them to
some page over which you have creative license.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark)
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:34:41 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <9gdnp2$r6v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mig wrote:
>Jon Johansan wrote:
>
>> Well, "DLL Hell" is no longer a valid concept or issue in Windows 2000 or
>> XP. Looks like that legacy has been taken up by linux - taken from the
>> front page of Linux Weekly News (http://www.lwn.net/):
>>
>> "gnucash 1.6 and the dependency nightmare
>>
>> gnucash is perhaps the prime example of shared library dependency hell.
>> The executable requires no less than 60 different shared libraries, all,
>> of course, with the right version."
>>
>> I'm sorry but... har! har! har!
>>
>> "Upgrading to GNOME 1.4 addresses many of those dependencies, but not all
>> of them."
>>
>> Sure, just upgrade
>>
>> "Dealing with the rest has proved tricky, even for people who are
>> accustomed to this sort of problem. "
>
>Hmmmm... some end user app needs 60 libs and you talk about DLL hell....
>What the heck.. ill program soem fancy "hello world "for Windows using 200
>libs and break the record....
>
>Maybe you should know a bit more about DLL Hell.. its not about the number
>of libraries but about the versions of the libraries installed.
In particular, it was windows tendency to overwrite version x DLLs with
version y DLLs, thus breaking packages which depended on version x. This
all happens because there is no package management system. The first
the user is likely to know about it is when they run up that now broken
package for the first time, then have to spend the rest of the morning
desperately finding a way of meeting that deadline now that their favourite
project management package doesn't work any more.
--
Mark Kent
------------------------------
From: Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More microsoft innovation
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:45:16 -0400
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "macman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <9gfgn9$e45$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Dan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > If I wanted links to send people to differnt places in my page, I
> > > would
> > > > > > provide them. IF I dont, I dont want some third party sending
> people
> > > to
> > > > > > places I have no control over.
> > > > >
> > > > > But it's not about you. It's about the *user*. We don't expect
> you
> > > > > to anticipate *every* thing that I might be interested in.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It IS about me, and my web page. -I- should be able to decide what is
> on
> > > > my page, not micro$oft. And, maybe I dont care what you are interested
> > > > in. Maybe I only care about my particular message.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why should *you* decide? Why should *I* decide? It's displayed on *my*
> > > system, I want those SmartTags, what right do you have to not allow me
> them?
> > > And if I want to use the MS stock tags, what right do you have to tell
> me
> > > not to?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > No one is telling _you_ what to do.
> >
> > What they're complaining about is Microsoft's activity. What might be OK
> > for you, as an end user, to do is not necessarily OK for Microsoft, as a
> > monopoly, to do.
>
> MS provides me with the tools to do so. I don't have the
> time/money/incentive to create this myself, why would MS be prevented from
> implementing this?
> The smarttags aren't hard-coded, they can be changed by the user, and by the
> page author. Why are you object to this? Because MS has a stock smart tags?
Why do ALWAYS fail to see anything wrong with anything that micro$oft
does? micro$oft provides the intial links list. CAN you remove those?
micro$oft CAN insert links to ftheir pages from competitor pages. They
have a history of underganded and illegal behavior. WHEN are you going
to be even a little suspicious of them? Or, are you just a micro$pft
shill?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:44:14 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, GreyCloud
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:54:25 -0700
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote
>> on Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:26:22 +0200
>> <9gce0s$1o7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> >
>> >"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Your stock options are almost toilet paper as it is, seeing that from
>> >> over a year ago MS stock lost 2/3 of its value.
>> >
>> >It didn't lose 2/3 of its value.
>> >
>> >And did you notice that it's stock price is *climbing* in a reccession?
>> >
>> >It used to be < 50$, not it's closer to 70$.
>>
>> It appears that Microsoft's high was around 120 -- after adjusting
>> for stock splits (the last one being a 2:1 on March 29, 1999).
>> The closing stock price as of today is $68.02. At most, this appears
>> to be a loss of 44%, down from a loss of about 65% (it hit its low of
>> 40.25 sometime before January 2001 and has increased 70% or so
>> in value since).
>>
>> http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=MSFT&d=c&k=c1&a=v&p=s&t=6m&l=on&z=m&q=l
>>
>> --
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- anybody got a spare time machine?
>> EAC code #191 0d:08h:30m actually running Linux.
>> This space for rent.
>
>Then was CNN correct in saying it lost 2/3 of its value?
At the moment, one might say that "MSFT lost 2/3 of its value,
then regained part of it back". Mind you, stock value is somewhat
illusory in a sense anyway; what does it really mean? But it
does appear that at two distinct points at time, which are
more or less specifiable, there was a ratio of 1/3, which means
MSFT lost 2/3 of its value as determined by stock price between
these particular points.
But I don't think CNN wants to use all of that verbiage; no
news organization would. So they trimmed it down a bit to
"mostly harmless".... :-)
>
>--
>V
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Don't panic! :-)
EAC code #191 1d:16h:51m actually running Linux.
This is the best part of the message.
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:45:10 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:45:25 +0200, "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Peter Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:49:00 +0200, "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:37:56 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > > ("Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >"Woofbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > > >> Who controls the content of these added links?
> > > > >
> > > > >The user.
> > > >
> > > > How do they do this?
> > >
> > > Read the SDK, and you'll know.
I don't have Office 2000 so I guess I'll never know.
> > I'd imagine XP phones home and gets an updated list from Microsoft.
>
> No, it doesn't.
Now how can you possibly know that. Seems a perfectly natural thing for it
to do.
> > Want on the list? Pay Microsoft.
>
> Or write your own.
*OR*?
So I *can* get on the list by paying Microsoft? So how does the list get to
users machines if XP doesn't call home for updates?
Peter
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:47:27 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:42:14 GMT, "Cyberbear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Dan,
> Because you, as the user, can change fonts and colors. For a third party
> to stick its nose in, and do it before it is displayed in the browser is
> intrusive.
I'll bet it's also illegal
Peter
------------------------------
From: Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Will MS get away with this one?
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:49:29 -0400
Peter Hayes wrote:
>
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:22:37 -0400, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Peter Hayes wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:31:31 -0400, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > How has Apple shafted as many as micro$oft. Just by sgeer size, m$ HAS
> > > > to have shafted more. After all, everyone that uses an m$ OS is getting
> > > > a big one from Gates.
> > >
> > > OK, maybe I should have said "in proportion to its size .....
> > >
> > > Peter
> >
> > Maybe you shouldnt have said anything at all. You are spouting nonsense.
>
> If you like, but it doesn't change the fact that Apple are just as bad as
> Microsoft.
>
> An Apple dominated home and office environment would be far worse than the
> one we have now, since Apple would control both the hardware and the
> software.
>
> Ciao
>
Why do you think the desktop should be dominated by any one vendor? And
there is nothing worse for the marketplace that being dominated by
micro$oft.
> Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:49:45 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:03:35 +0200
<9gfgo2$e45$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>> >
>> > "drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >
>> > > Also, you can't pirate a book!
>> >
>> > alt.binaries.e-book
>> >
>> > You most certainly can.
>>
>> Book does not = e.book.
>
>Yes it does, when you take a book, scan & OCR it, and post it somewhere,
>it's certainly pirating it.
>
>
It gets extremely loony when one throws ITAR/EAR into the mix.
Consider that one method of getting encryption code out of the
country is to publish it in book form; the recipients out of the
country then OCR it, fix up the more obvious syntax errors, and
distribute it. Granted, this isn't exactly the most exciting
of books.
I don't think they ever did convict Phil Zimmerman, though.... :-)
So...was ITAR/EAR broken, or not? Ow, my brain hurts.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 1d:17h:07m actually running Linux.
[ ] Check here to always trust monopolistic software.
------------------------------
From: LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: PC power switch wont shut down Windows
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:39:27 GMT
I knew this was going to happen. When I saw the "When I press the
power button on my computer" option in Windows Millennium "Power
Options" I knew that it was going to malfunction. Hello Microsoft. I
use the power switch to shut down when Windows wont. Is there some
logic in extending Windows dysfunctionallity to my computer's power
switch? If I want to hasstle with Windows, isn't that what the Start
>> Shut Down... path is for? Thanks to Microsoft for extending
Windows slimey tenticles to my power supply. I can't wait to find out
what "PCHealth" is going to do to my other hard disk partitions.
:o/
------------------------------
From: Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:57:51 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Chad Myers wrote:
> > >
> > > "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > "Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>You think conservatives want people to become educated?
> > > > > >>>>Look at their education bills. They don't want you to have a clue
> about
> > > the
> > > > > >>>>true history of this country. Because if you did, you'd realize what
> > > true
> > > > > >>>>scoundrels they are. You sound as if you are their poster boy.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>You need to hit the books pal, and open your mind.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>For the first time in 8 years the USA has an education policy
> > > > > >>>under the Bush Administration. Under the Clinton Administration
> > > > > >>>the education policy consisted of nothing more than Slick Willie
> > > > > >>>chasing school girls his daughter's age.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>Oh yeah, and removing all trace of religious freedom at the local
> > > > > >>level, not to mention spreading abortion propaganda and sex
> > > > > >>education which consisted of teachers encouraging students to
> > > > > >>lie on top of each other.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>-c
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Man, things sure have changed since I was in school!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not too sure about the US education system, but could someone please
> > > > > go into detail on how/why it has degraded?
> > > > >
> > > > > Matthew Gardiner
> > > >
> > > > Hmmm... IMO it's more of a cultural thing than anything else... but it's
> > > > not really 'cool' for kids to be engaged by school... kids believe that
> > > > getting grades and getting into college are more important than
> > > > learning, so they cheat/float by.
> > > >
> > > > Also, kids get cynical by low teacher/child ratios. One huge problem is
> > > > that parents are apathetic and would rather watch Survivor than go to
> > > > PTA meetings, and they take teacher criticism of their children as
> > > > insults and get defensive and work against the teacher rather than with
> > > > them.
> > > >
> > > > My mom is a teacher so I should know.
> > >
> > > Here I go with my conservative rant again, but it has everything to do
> > > with the parents in this country. People have no responsibility for
> > > anything any more. 15 year old kids are having kids now (I just read a
> > > news story about a girl with two kids and was pregnant again at 16!).
> >
> > That's not a conservative rant... liberals don't want the parents to be
> > apathetic either.
>
> But Liberals don't talk about personal responsibility, they talk about
> how government should do more to force parents to take action. They also
> attempt to defend single parent homes. The fact is, parents need to take
> more action with their children. Father's shouldn't be leaving their families
> and women shouldn't be purposely having children on their own. I know
> that probably offends your liberal core, but it's the truth. A family is a
> family and many adults seem to have children out of their own personal
> greed rather than for what's best for their children (*cough*roseyo'donnel
> ormadonna*cough*).
I'm not a liberal and I agree with you. But I see conservative-types
doing some of the same things.
I don't think it's liberals you're talking about (the liberals and
conservatives I know are all pretty good parents), I think it's these
apathetic people who don't have political opinions and who only care
about whether or not they'll be able to buy that new Ford Explorer or
new 15" TV who make bad parents.
Liberals do support single parent families, basically because they're
there and what else really can you do for them. If there are liberals
who think that single-parent families are equal/better than full-familes
then those people are just plain old deluded.
It's not just conservatives who dislike Rosie OD, too.
> > > Where are the parents? They're busy trying to collect more welfare,
> > > or shooting heroin or smoking crack.
> >
> > No, these parents are otherwise hardworking people... they're just
> > apathetic. This is suburbia, not just the ghetto.
>
> It's the whole mindset "I'll have a child at 30, keep my career,
> throw the kid in perpetual daycare and only seem him 2 hours a day
> and the kid will still grow up to be well adjusted!"
I know liberal and conservative parents who do this. Just for an
example, all those Republican women you see arguing on those
talk-shows... some of them do have kids, who do you think takes care of
those kids?
> Parent's aren't being parents anymore. Children are like everything
> else they buy. They have their Chevy Subburban, they have their
> boat, they have their new house and new Lexus and oh yeah, somewhere
> I have a kid that someone else is raising, but who cares about that?
> When he's older, I'll just throw him in school and I won't have to
> bother with them then. He'll come home on the bus, make his own
> microwave meal and go to sleep and I'll never have to bother with him,
> woohoo!
Yes, I know people like this... it's a big problem and their families
are a complete mess because of it.
--
- Brent
"General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
- Darth Vader
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
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