I'm only a lurker, but I concur with Joern. -Lea.
On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 14:45, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote: > this is a somewhat heated reply, you may want to skip it entirely if you > have had enough of this thread already... > > but since my own efforts are being drawn into the argument now, i feel > it's time to sound off: > > Marek Peteraj wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 11:01, Daniel James wrote: > > >>It's true that I did initiate the arrangement whereby the Linux audio > >>community gets representation at a major UK audio industry trade > >>show, > > > > > > Suddenly you're now speaking as the representative of the whole Linux > > audio community. But you're not. Neither am I. The only true > > representatives of the Linux Audio community are the Linux Audio > > Developers. > > marek, please: it's time to shut up. > > i too have been speaking as a representative of the linux audio > community on various occasions. frank neumann has even been so bold as > to organize a trade show booth in the name of the linux audio community. > matthias nagorni is just now and in front of everyone's eyes committing > the heinous atrocity of organizing a conference in the name of the linux > audio community. > none of us has obtained anyone's mandate, none of us has discussed > everything we do on this list up to the point of consensus. > > SO WHAT????? > > there is no such thing as a linux audio community, except for *what > people do*. so daniel is as much part of it as you and i. > this list is just a list. a means of communication. it's great at times, > and sometimes it's not. as pointed out before, not even everyone > interested in linux audio uses it. > > nowhere on the whole wide web will you find a clear definition of what > the linux audio community is and who can speak for it. and you are not > going to define it either by continous nit-picking at the efforts of others. > > linux audio is what people do with it. that's what free software > communities are about. if somebody tries to put an organisation together > to provide a new forum for exchange with (shudder ;) commercial > developers, that can only enrich the community. if it works, great, if > it fails, so what? > nobody is going to take all the code away from you (thanks to the gpl - > chapeau, mr. stallman!), nobody is going to take all the contributors of > the community away. where is the problem? > > there have been some valid points of criticism on how david is > organizing and presenting his effort. i'm sure these can and should be > discussed. but there is absolutely and utterly no point in bashing > peoples' heads in for working free-of-charge towards what they believe > will be for the good of linux audio. > be pragmatic: if the linuxaudio.org effort is worth crap, then it's > going to die a good and honest open-source death. if it prospers, then > it will add another facet to the linux audio community. but how could it > really endanger or take away anything that the community already has? > > > the only thing i see endangered here is the atmosphere of mutual respect > that has been one of the pillars of this mailing list. > > > if you fear fragmentation of the community, well, that too is part of > the game. projects are forked, forks are healed, projects succeed and > die, communities form and disperse themselves. no harm in voicing your > fear of fragmentation, but why attack people and discredit their efforts? > > > excuse me for ranting, but i too have invested a lot of free time *and* > money to advocate linux audio and the linux audio community. i want to > continue to do this *as i see fit*, to the best of my knowledge, and i > certainly do not want to face a stupid public tribunal such as this in > return for my efforts. > > in my view, david first of all deserves a huge cheer for a new idea and > a lot of work, and then we can discuss the points that were subject to > criticism. > > this whole thread sadly reminds me again of the zynaddsubfx flamewar > about the weird jesus clause its author had on his website. well, above > all, imnsho, if some new thing comes with strings attached that do not > suit you, just ignore it. you haven't lost anything, and nothing is > being taken away from you. it's an offer, after all. > > > >>on the basis that we will be offering free advice and > >>information rather than a sales pitch. The organisers have agreed to > >>give us the stand at cost, which they didn't have to do. > > > > > > So how is that different from LinuxTag or ZKM? Again, what are we trying > > to promote? The only thing we should promote right now are the Linux > > Audio applications. Companies have resources to promote themselves. And > > it makes no sense to promote Linux Audio Users at such event. > > > > The problem is - Frank, Joern, Matthias were doing a great job > > organising events and helping the Linux Audio Developers to promote > > their open source Linux Audio applications. They never called themselves > > the directors of LAD. > > nor does david. he stepped in as director of linuxaudio.org to get a > ball rolling. just as matthias and frank "usurped" the role of > conference organizers. *to*get*something*done* ! > > if you consider some of his actions bad style, then fine, but show some > style yourself when offering criticism. > > > I see ZKM as a very important event simply because it's growing into a > > larger conference, an event solely aimed at Linux Audio, an event that > > will be aimed at both Linux Audio Developers and Linux Audio Users this > > year. A place where the developers, journalists and music industry can > > meet each other. > > I think such an event is much more important than any stand. > > both stands *and* meetings are nice and have become and important part > of the community. what's your point? > > > Don't get me wrong. I apreciate that you're organising an event. But > > it's an event just like the other events. In no way is it more important > > than the others. http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/events.php3 > > excuse me, but it takes a lot of goodwill to read "appreciation" into > any of your postings lately. > > > scratching my head, > > j�rn > > > (btw, just to make it clear: while i happen to be the list admin atm, > this is my *personal* opinion, and it does not in anyway reflect list > policy or some hazy "community pov". i have always tried to keep the two > well separated, and i intend to continue doing so.) >
