On 09/16/2016 09:12 AM, Dave Chinner wrote:
On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 09:39:46PM +0800, Anand Jain wrote:

This patchset adds btrfs encryption support.

The main objective of this series is to have bugs fixed and stability.
I have verified with fstests to confirm that there is no regression.

A design write-up is coming next, however here below is the quick example
on the cli usage. Please try out, let me know if I have missed something.

Yup, that best practices say "do not roll your own encryption
infrastructure".

This is just my 2c worth - take it or leave it, don't other flaming.
Keep in mind that I'm not picking on btrfs here - I asked similar
hard questions about the proposed f2fs encryption implementation.
That was a "copy and snowflake" version of the ext4 encryption code -
they made changes and now we have generic code and common
functionality between ext4 and f2fs.

Also would like to mention that a review from the security experts is due,
which is important and I believe those review comments can be accommodated
without major changes from here.

That's a fairly significant red flag to me - security reviews need
to be done at the design phase against specific threat models -
security review is not a code/implementation review...

The ext4 developers got this right by publishing threat models and
design docs, which got quite a lot of review and feedback before
code was published for review.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ft26lUQyuSpiu6VleP70_npaWdRfXFoNnB8JYnykNTg/edit#heading=h.qmnirp22ipew


 As mentioned 'inline with vfs layer' I mean to say to use
 fs/crypto KPIs. Which I haven't seen what parts of the code
 from ext4 was made as generic KPIs. If that's getting stuff
 correct in the encryption related, I think it would here as well.

 Internal to btrfs - I had challenges to get the extents encoding
 done properly without bailout, and the test plan. Which I think
 is addressed here in this code.


Thanks, Anand


[small reorder of comments]

As of now these patch set supports encryption on per subvolume, as
managing properties on per subvolume is a kind of core to btrfs, which is
easier for data center solution-ing, seamlessly persistent and easy to
manage.

We've got dmcrypt for this sort of transparent "device level"
encryption. Do we really need another btrfs layer that re-implements
generic, robust, widely deployed, stable functionality?

What concerns me the most here is that it seems like that nothing
has been learnt from the btrfs RAID5/6 debacle. i.e. the btrfs
reimplementation of existing robust, stable, widely deployed
infrastructure was fatally flawed and despite regular corruption
reports they were ignored for, what, 2 years? And then a /user/
spent the time to isolate the problem, and now several months later
it still hasn't been fixed. I haven't seen any developer interest in
fixing it, either.

This meets the definition of unmaintained software, and it sets a
poor example for how complex new btrfs features might be maintained
in the long term. Encryption simply cannot be treated like this - it
has to be right, and it has to be well maintained.

So what is being done differently ito the RAID5/6 review process
this time that will make the new btrfs-specific encryption
implementation solid and have minimal risk of zero-day fatal flaws?
And how are you going to guarantee that it will be adequately
maintained several years down the track?

Also yes, thanks for the emails, I hear, per file encryption and inline
with vfs layer is also important, which is wip among other things in the
list.

The generic file encryption code is solid, reviewed, tested and
already widely deployed via two separate filesystems. There is a
much wider pool of developers who will maintain it, reveiw changes
and know all the traps that a new implementation might fall into.
There's a much bigger safety net here, which significantly lowers
the risk of zero-day fatal flaws in a new implementation and of
flaws in future modifications and enhancements.

Hence, IMO, the first thing to do is implement and make the generic
file encryption support solid and robust, not tack it on as an
afterthought for the magic btrfs encryption pixies to take care of.

Indeed, with the generic file encryption, btrfs may not even need
the special subvolume encryption pixies. i.e. you can effectively
implement subvolume encryption via configuration of a multi-user
encryption key for each subvolume and apply it to the subvolume tree
root at creation time. Then only users with permission to unlock the
subvolume key can access it.

Once the generic file encryption is solid and fulfils the needs of
most users, then you can look to solving the less common threat
models that neither dmcrypt or per-file encryption address. Only if
the generic code cannot be expanded to address specific threat
models should you then implement something that is unique to
btrfs....

Cheers,

Dave.

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