Linux-Development-Sys Digest #180, Volume #6 Sat, 26 Dec 98 18:14:00 EST
Contents:
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (Michal Mosiewicz)
deleting files on vfat gives lost clusters (jan david mol)
Re: Santa's List ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (manu)
gcc on RedHat 5.2 (Jinsong Ouyang)
Re: FSCK time on 50GB partition (Chris Hedley)
Re: Possible MS legal threats to Linux and/or OSS (Satch)
Re: gcc on RedHat 5.2 ("John Burton")
Re: Virtual PC (Sami Tikka)
Re: net-tools-1.47 inet6.c incomplete type , won't compile (Sami Tikka)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (Satch)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (Satch)
Re: Santa's List (David Fox)
Linux Registry Stone Bitch to Administer (Satch)
Send/Recv Windows Perf Counters? (Adam Sussman)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: How to run Windows Applications on Linux (Erik)
Re: ppp dialin (with VJ compression) problems with dev.kernel 2.1.132 (Sion
Masamune)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michal Mosiewicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:36:13 +0100
Steven Howe wrote:
> [...]
> Most of your ideas violate good sound engineering policies. Since most of
> the processes you wish to 'control' are independent in design and upgrade, a
> single configuration tool would need constant updates as the developers of
> at, cron, inetd, etc. update their work.
How do you feel about things like PAM? Don't you see that these things
violate your engineering policies? It isolates your /etc/passwd. It's no
longer necessary to have /etc/passwd as text file. But note, that it
makes the software perfectly independent of how you store your
authentication information.
> Window's network configuration requires quite a few panels to set these
> three lines. I generally set these three lines via a command like:
> echo "nameserver xxx" >> /etc/resolv.conf
You assumed, there is no way, that it would be possible to type:
echo "xxx" > /proc/sysconfig/resolver/nameserver.
You assumed the design must be hard to use, hard to change, incompatible
with your current working schemes. But it's not necessary true. By
making inaccurate assumptions, you may also get inaccurate results. Just
don't make too much assumptions.
Once again, please, I clearly stated I'm not complaining about lack of
registry. I simply complain about people which go deeply into critisism
by assuming that the design must be wrong.
Mike
--
WWW: http://www.lodz.pdi.net/~mimo tel: Int. Acc. Code + 48 42 2148340
add: Michal Mosiewicz * Bugaj 66 m.54 * 95-200 Pabianice * POLAND
------------------------------
From: jan david mol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: deleting files on vfat gives lost clusters
Date: 26 Dec 1998 14:51:40 GMT
Hmm when i delete files on one of my DOS partitions the diskfree doesn't
increase, and running Norton Disk Doctor under DOS gives me that exact
amount of lost clusters. How can i properly delete files on my DOS
partitions from Linux? Using 2.0.34 and a 6gb disk (DOS partitions are
regular FAT16 ones)
--
Tsjauw,
Jan David
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Santa's List
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:24:26 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:
: Santa's making a list. If You could have any piece of software ported
: to Linux, other than Microsoft's what would it be?
:
Pyrus' Fontlab, Scanfont and Fontlab Composer - the best outline
font design programs there are. Fontlab 2.5 actually runs pretty well
under Wine - the dialog boxes don't have buttons and the guides are
off base, but the drawing, importing and exporting works great.
--
Boudewijn Rempt | www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt
------------------------------
From: manu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: 26 Dec 1998 17:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Your must not be an engineer. Two motto from my 3rd year systems professor
> are:;
> 1) if it aint broke, don't fix it.
and I thought the "arianne" (sp?) rocket disaster a couple of years ago
made people rethink the smartness of this approach when it comes to
software!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jinsong Ouyang)
Subject: gcc on RedHat 5.2
Date: 26 Dec 1998 10:23:28 GMT
On RedHat 5.2, if you write a very simple C code like below
main()
{
char input[80];
gets( input );
}
Then when you compile it using gcc or egcs, you will get the following
strange warning message. What hell is going on? Anyone knows?
/tmp/cca094601.o: In function `main':
/tmp/cca094601.o(.text+0xb): the `gets' function is dangerous and should not be used.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Hedley)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: FSCK time on 50GB partition
Date: 26 Dec 1998 19:32:59 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Teodor Romeo Mihai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 50Gb?? I truly envy you for having such a huge hard-drive. Or was it
> 5Gb?
I'd say 50GB is average-ish for a small to mid-size server. 50GB is a tiny
amount of storage compared to IBM S/370 and DEC VAX datacentres going back
over the last couple of decades. Even my home PC has about half that amount.
Chris.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Satch)
Crossposted-To: misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: Possible MS legal threats to Linux and/or OSS
Date: 25 Dec 1998 22:39:48 PST
In article <vT8g2.6706$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "ncc1701d"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know that Linux is Public Domain, but isn't there something in the GPL
> that allows for programs to only be distributed in binary? Isn't this
> something MS could use to it's advantage?
The one thing that Microsoft would lose is the ability for their programs
to take advantage of undocumented features of the operating system to give
MS an edge over competitiors. Remember that the GNU CopyLeft says that if
you modify the program you have to DISTRIBUTE THE SOURCE as well as the
object.
Add-on applications that run on Linux can be distributed binary-only -- my
company has such a product and I researched this question very carefully.
I suspect that modules could also be distributed binary-only as long as
there were no kernel mods involved, but that's a more murky question.
my pair-o-pennies(tm)
------------------------------
From: "John Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: gcc on RedHat 5.2
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:34:45 -0000
Jinsong Ouyang wrote in message <762df0$3bs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>On RedHat 5.2, if you write a very simple C code like below
>
>main()
>{
> char input[80];
> gets( input );
>}
>
>Then when you compile it using gcc or egcs, you will get the following
>strange warning message. What hell is going on? Anyone knows?
>
>/tmp/cca094601.o: In function `main':
>/tmp/cca094601.o(.text+0xb): the `gets' function is dangerous and should
not be used.
Think what happens if the user types in 180 characters into your variable?
Do you
know where they will be stored and what that will do to your program? The
compiler is just giving you a helpful warning that the gets function is
unsafe because
you can't limit the number of characters a user can type and if they type
more than
you have allowed for it can have catasrophic results for your program.
Use fgets instead where you can limit the number of chacters read, or if you
are using c++ use the iostream functions.
------------------------------
From: Sami Tikka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Virtual PC
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:27:29 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Do you remember the days when you could buy a card with Z80 and plug it
into your Apple II so you could run CP/M and it's applications?
And there are similar products from Sun that let you run Windows in an
add-on card on a SPARCstation.
If that can be done, would it be much more difficult or even much easier
to buy a PC with 2 cpus and run Linux on one cpu and Windows on the other?
--
Sami Tikka, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.iki.fi/sti/
------------------------------
From: Sami Tikka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: net-tools-1.47 inet6.c incomplete type , won't compile
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:48:48 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, mack wrote:
> I'm trying to get IPv6 up. Don't have any IPV6 stuff
> installed. First tried to compile the net-tools for IPv6.
>
> inet6.c won't compile, lots of references to "incomplete
> type"
> any suggestions?
>
> gcc-2.7.2.3
> kernel 2.1.131
> glibc-2.0.7pre6
This is what I did:
I got the latest glibc (2.0.100 or something), compiled & installed that.
Oh, by the way, to do that I had to upgrade my compiler to egcs
something...
Then I edited the net-tools makefile so that it no longer takes the
include files from net-toosl's own include dir but uses the includes from
/usr/include. In the later glibc include files there is the necessary IPv6
support already. Apparently the net-tools just doesn't know that yet.
But I do still have a problem: I cannot compile the inet-apps package that
has all the goodies like pine, telnet, ftp and such. There are some
#define's which are not defined in my includes (like AI_NONAME). Does
anyone know how to get the inet-apps to compile?
All in all I've found installing IPv6 on Linux an awful job. You need all
kinds of packages from here and there and apparently they are in no way
synchronized. Some compile, some don't.
All this is much easier to do with FreeBSD. There's one package that
contains everything you need.
--
Sami Tikka, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.iki.fi/sti/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Satch)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: 25 Dec 1998 23:01:21 PST
In article <75s0h9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I think a central registery for Linux is an excellent idea.
>
> It has however to be all plain text, simple format, so that shell commands
> and other scripts can be used on it.
>
> RPM can use it, applications that gets installed will use it, a user
> can search it for important information, GUI can be build on top of it to
> make it easier to search, examine etc..
>
> on windows, I use the registery many time to find what applications I have
> installed, where, etc.. so I find it usefull for this purpose.
Then you would have been happy with WIndows before 85 (espeically Windows
3.1). Were you?
That's EXACTLY what the .inf files were all about.
In Linux, we usually call them .conf files.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Satch)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: 25 Dec 1998 23:17:59 PST
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michal Mosiewicz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you need more informations about how easy it's recover the system
> with chaotic configuration management, just go to a bigger ISP (using
> Linuks of course). In many cases things like passwords, aliases, domains
> and similiar configuration files are only shadows of some central
> database. That's why many ISP servers react on account changes in an
> hour or even a day. It's becouse they are not able to update those
> shadows more frequently with accurate effectivness. Ask them if it's
> easier to restore all informations from one central source, or to check
> if all the information is consistent.
>From banking, the usual way to do this is to have a central repository of
common information from which each system, ON REQUEST FROM THE SYSTEM
OPERATOR, recreates the system information from the central data. In a
large ISP environment, the same task can be performed by cron launching a
synchronization script that updates the system configuration files from the
central data.
The problem with "push" technology which forces changes onto the systems
when a central repository "thinks" it should is that you run the risk of
changing system state at a particularly bad time. Ask the New York Stock
Exchange about this one.
Fast propagation of information to systems can be done, and done fairly
cheaply, by having a script process a "change list" more frequently and
rebuilding all configuration files once a day. This does two things: (1)
updates are faster if faster is better, and (2) if the change script fails
then the daily rebuild can fix the problem seamlessly and without an
administrator having to troubleshoot what went wrong.
Such a change script should *NOT* touch system critical files. That's
another reason *not* to have a single database for the entire system.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Santa's List
From: d s f o x @ c o g s c i . u c s d . e d u (David Fox)
Date: 26 Dec 1998 12:43:35 -0800
Realplayer G2. An open source player for real audio would be heaven.
--
David Fox http://hci.ucsd.edu/dsf xoF divaD
UCSD HCI Lab baL ICH DSCU
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Satch)
Subject: Linux Registry Stone Bitch to Administer
Date: 25 Dec 1998 22:57:11 PST
Let me break out one element of the discussion of a "registry" for Linux:
the task of administrating such a beast.
By "registry" we are talking about some kind of database which contains the
system and installation state of a particular machine within a single
master file and perhaps some index files to speed access.
We won't talk about the resources required to perform a key-based lookup in
such a beast in this message -- that's been adequately covered in the other
thread.
The issue here is administration, particularly the administration of a
large body of Linux boxes by a small group of professionals.
1) In order to perform any remote administration of the computer, you have
to make the databases visible to the administrators. ANY such exposure
represents yet another opportunity for outside interference with the system
(denial of service attack).
2) A single registry system would have to replicate the security
mechanisms already present in the file system. Today, each user has
control of his or her individual configuation files, and the system
administrator has control of the system- and network-wide configuration
files. Having a single file means that the entire registry would have to
be able to be trusted globally. That's not good from a system security
standpoint.
3) The Registry would require its own tool, or toolkit, or tool suite, to
permit the system administrator to understand what the hell is going on in
it. Today in Windows 95/98, there are keys that make NO SENSE to human
beings and to "expert software" because there are no standards for the
creation of keys that are enforced in any significant way. Administrators
can't trace rogue keys to any particular package because the uninstaller
may not necessarily remove the rogue keys, and there is no audit of who
added what keys at this time. With the current scheme of text files, it is
customary to include comments that tell you what that file is and who it
belongs to.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adam Sussman)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Send/Recv Windows Perf Counters?
Date: 26 Dec 1998 22:02:57 GMT
Does anyone know of a way to read Windows performance counters from a linux box
and vice versa?
I know it could probably be done with SAG's DCOM server for Linux but that
beast doesn't work on modern systems.
Please e-mail replies to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: 26 Dec 1998 21:37:57 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Michal Mosiewicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Richard RUDEK wrote:
>> [...]
>> I agree, a registry for linux is a bad idea. But I don't see how a standard
>> configuration procedure "naturally suggests a single file".
>
> Why is it a bad idea?
>
> Or, let me put it this way - what is better than a single database
> optimised for persistent configuration storage?
>
> In fact people are too tied to those fancy configuration files. They
> start to complain when it comes to start some netscape or some another
> configuration-hungry program. Just look at how your system (I mean
> Linux) starts. It takes a minute or so to boot up. Much of this time is
> spent on setting up the state of kernel. It takes hundreds of files to
> be open, tens of programs to be started and a lot of scripts to be
> interpreted.
Incorrect - the kernel doesn't use configuration files and only init
(which runs as a normal process) reads through inittab and executes
the /etc/rc.d scripts.
> It consumes a lot of time. Unnecessary time.
Irrelevant - unless you boot your system frequently. You're displaying
an unwarranted concern with micro-optimisation (ie optimising stuff
without measuring whether the optimisation is required).
> Some people say that is dangerous to have a single database
> configuration database. Isn't it dangerous to have a single filesystem?
Yes. It's also dangerous to have a single disk, a single processor,
a single heart etc. You don't choose a single point of failure unless
you have to (like only having a single disk). Deliberately choosing a
design that effectively presents a single point of failure is foolish
(IMHO).
> I'm far from suggesting that it should be a single file - it might be a
> single device. Sometime this database would be accessible as a set of
> text files (for text-addicted people) but the point is that a common
> filesystem is not necessary optimal database.
Configuration data doesn't require an optimal database. It's low-volume,
and infrequently read. If the data changes often and/or is high volume,
it doesn't belong in configuration files. You're again concerned with
micro-optimisation.
--
Stefaan
--
PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)
___________________________________________________________________
Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add,
but when there is no longer anything to take away. -- Saint-Exup�ry
------------------------------
From: Erik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,linux.dev.c-programming,linux.dev.kernel,linux.sources.kernel
Subject: Re: How to run Windows Applications on Linux
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:33:01 -0500
6278 wrote:
> In article <75jlin$s6f$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> William McBrine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In comp.os.linux.development.apps George Bonser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >: Except [Wine] doesn't work very well. Most applications will not run.
> >
> >Better than ever before... if you haven't used it in a while, give it
> >another try.
>
> I don't want to put down the Wine developers, but I think it's unfair
> to mislead people into wasting a lot of their time with Wine. If you
> just want the thrill of seeing a Win95 app on your screen in X, or
> playing Windows Solitaire, or want to help develop Wine, then by all
> means, get the latest Wine. However, if you just have some Windows
> applications that you're hoping to be able to use from X, don't bother.
> You can't reliably run any MS Office apps, or Quicken 98, CorelDraw,
> or Photoshop, which probably covers the reasons the majority of people
> want a Windows emulator. Wine does a bit better if you stick to Win3.1
> apps though.
>
> But do keep checking the Wine page, http://www.winehq.com, especially
> the list of apps that it's reported to run. It may very well be good
> enough in the sort-of-near future.
>
> Adam
> --
> Adam P. Jenkins
> ajenkins at netway dot com
Actually, quite a few apps run quite well. I have some older apps that crash
less in WINE than Winblows.
Erik
------------------------------
From: Sion Masamune <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ppp dialin (with VJ compression) problems with dev.kernel 2.1.132
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 23:34:35 +0100
Sion Masamune wrote:
> The complete story,
>
> This is the problem:
>
> Dec 26 00:59:42 nomad pppd[404]: Serial connection established.
> Dec 26 00:59:43 nomad pppd[404]: sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <mru 552>
> <asyncmap 0x20a0000> <magic 0x343ea0c4> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> Dec 26 00:59:43 nomad pppd[404]: rcvd [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 <mru 552>
> <asyncmap 0x20a0000> <magic 0x343ea0c4> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> Dec 26 00:59:43 nomad pppd[404]: Using interface ppp0
> Dec 26 00:59:43 nomad pppd[404]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/modem
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad pppd[404]: rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 <asyncmap 0x0>
> <magic 0x9ec60059> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad pppd[404]: sent [LCP ConfAck id=0x2 <asyncmap 0x0>
> <magic 0x9ec60059> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad pppd[404]: sent [LCP EchoReq id=0x0
> magic=0x343ea0c4]
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad pppd[404]: sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <addr
> 0.0.0.0> <compress VJ 0f 01>]
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad pppd[404]: rcvd [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <compress VJ
> 0f 00> <addr 212.19.201.2>]
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad pppd[404]: sent [IPCP ConfAck id=0x1 <compress VJ
> 0f 00> <addr 212.19.201.2>]
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad pppd[404]: rcvd [LCP EchoRep id=0x0
> magic=0x9ec60059]
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad pppd[404]: rcvd [IPCP ConfNak id=0x1 <addr
> 212.19.201.42>]
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad pppd[404]: sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x2 <addr
> 212.19.201.42> <compress VJ 0f 01>]
> Dec 26 00:59:46 nomad pppd[404]: rcvd [IPCP ConfAck id=0x2 <addr
> 212.19.201.42> <compress VJ 0f 01>]
> Dec 26 00:59:46 nomad pppd[404]: sent [IPCP TermReq id=0x3 "Interface
> configuration failed"]
> And here is the point it all gets fuzzy for me...
>
> Dec 26 00:59:46 nomad pppd[404]: rcvd [IPCP TermAck id=0x2]
> Dec 26 00:59:46 nomad pppd[404]: sent [LCP TermReq id=0x2 "No network
> protocols running"]
> Dec 26 00:59:46 nomad pppd[404]: ioctl(SIOCADDRT) device route: Network
> is down(100)
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-21
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-26
> Dec 26 00:59:45 nomad modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-24
> echo alias ppp-compress-2[1 4 6] off >>/etc/conf.modules
>
> Dec 26 00:59:46 nomad pppd[404]: Modem hangup
> Dec 26 00:59:46 nomad pppd[404]: Connection terminated.
> Dec 26 00:59:47 nomad pppd[404]: Exit.
>
> Click...
>
> Extra info:
>
> ppp 2.3.4 dev. kernel 2.1.132 libc5
>
> everything works for 100% in 2.0.36 and below
>
> Laterz,
>
> Sion M. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> PS: remove the obvious from my email adress to contact me
Found the problem! pppd 2.3.5 was needed!
Laterz,
Sion M.
------------------------------
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