Linux-Development-Sys Digest #210, Volume #6 Mon, 4 Jan 99 06:14:03 EST
Contents:
x windows Redhat 5.1 (User470357)
Re: GUI, The Next Generation (George MacDonald)
BUS Master IDE problem (Allen Unueco)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (George MacDonald)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (George MacDonald)
Kernel numbering convention, explainations anybody? (Mike Dowling)
Re: Kernel numbering convention, explainations anybody? (Frank Sweetser)
Re: Matrox Millenium G-200 Drivers (Erwin de Beus)
Re: ppp-compress-xx problem in 2.2.0-pre4 (Steven Hand)
Re: Soundcard with Digital in? (Philippe Le Foll)
Re: Soundcard with Digital in? (Bill Morgan)
Re: Kernel numbering convention, explainations anybody? (Villy Kruse)
Re: Matrox Millenium G-200 Drivers ("James A. Cleland")
Re: ppp-compress-xx problem in 2.2.0-pre4 (Nathan Myers)
Re: GUI, The Next Generation (Ewing James)
Re: 'make xconfig' problem in 2.2.0-pre2 (Johan Kullstam)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (User470357)
Subject: x windows Redhat 5.1
Date: 4 Jan 1999 06:42:12 GMT
5.1
I have redhat on a 225cds satellite toshiba labtop. I can't get x windows up
and running the trouble is I can't find the Hor and ver refresh rates, the
mannual, tech line, and web site don't give them out. Linux is the only thing
currently installed on the box.
---> the web page does give this out "(Refresh Rate @ 800x600/ 64K colors
Non-Interlaced : Vert.: 85 Hz)" but not the hor rate
the LCD is 12.1 siagonal Dual scan Passive Matrix Color
Dot pitch .30mm x .30mm /contrast ratio: 27.1. avg Internal resolution 800 x
600
64kcolors
video Chips and tech. F65554 2mb (is picked up by auto probe)
(225 is not listed on common web sites that give out configs)
thank you for any help you can give please E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GUI, The Next Generation
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 07:24:17 GMT
Ken Sorensen wrote:
>
> I know this will open a lot of critique and such, but I just want to
> open an interesting discussion.
>
> First, I've used Linux since ver 0.96 on and off, and think Linux is
> absolutely wonderful for doing not what the market wants but what is
> "right". By this I mean Linus didn't start Linux because he wanted to
> whoop Microsoft's butt. Instead he wanted to build a really good OS.
>
> Today Linux (the Kernel) is awesome, however the when we want to put
> a pretty face on it (using X primarily) we mimic Windows/Mac style
> GUI's. Linus didn't make Linux a copy of Win32 API, so why does a
> GUI have to pretend to be a Windows GUI?
>
> I'm not convinced that these GUI's are the "right" GUI. Think about it:
> a 100 years from now, what will human-computer interfaces be like? Would
> we look back at today's GUI (GNOME-style, KDE-Style) and say "Gee that
> was like bear skins and stone knives."?
>
> What I want to throw onto the table is this. What kind of UI would be the
> "right" UI for the Next Generation UI? If we came up with the next
> greatest GUI, then Microsoft, et. al. would be the ones playing catch-up.
>
> Questions to Ask:
> 1. Why do apps need to be in overlapping windows?
> 2. Why does it have to be flag (not 3D)?
> 3. Why do we need a Mouse (or keyboard - it may be obvious but think about
> it...)?
> 4. There was talk of "Color-Reactive" interfaces where an application
> icon would have some indication of running, sleeping, etc.
>
> Question all of your assuptions, take nothing for granted!
>
Hmm, one similar to STNG. i.e. audable interface, functional based,
multiple adaptive visualizations using distrubted panels/viewers,
even holographic immersions.
Strangely enough all of this is doable on a Linux kernel!!
--
We stand on the shoulders of those giants who coded before.
Build a good layer, stand strong, and prepare for the next wave.
Guide those who come after you, give them your shoulder, lend them your code.
Code well and live! - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (7th Coding Battalion)
------------------------------
From: Allen Unueco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: BUS Master IDE problem
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:44:29 -0800
Hello,
I can't seem to get DMA mode or BUS Mastering to work on with
my IDE controller.
I have a Tyan S1668 Titan Pro ATX Dual PPro motherboard. This
motherboard has an Intel 440FX (NATOMA) chipset. I'm using a
Western Digital 6.4GB UltraDMA IDE HDD.
I have tried this with a few kernels from 2.0.36 to 2.2.0-pre4
When I boot up this is what the kernel tells me:
<snip>
PIIX3: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39
PIIX3: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide0: BM-DMA at 0xf000-0xf007, BIOS settings: hda:pio, hdb:pio
ide1: BM-DMA at 0xf008-0xf00f, BIOS settings: hdc:pio, hdd:pio
hda: WDC AC36400L, ATA DISK drive
hdc: TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-5302TA, ATAPI CDROM drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
hda: WDC AC36400L, 6149MB w/256kB Cache, CHS=784/255/63, UDMA
hdc: ATAPI 4X CDROM drive, 256kB Cache
Uniform CDROM driver Revision: 2.51
Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M
FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077
scsi : 0 hosts.
scsi : detected total.
Partition check:
hda:hda: timeout waiting for DMA
hda: irq timeout: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete
DataRequest }
hda: DMA disabled
ide0: reset: success
hda1 hda2 < hda5 hda6 hda7 >
<snip>
Now from the "ide*: BM-DMA..." lines it seems to me that it is
detecting the Bus Mastering IDE controller. What confuses me
is when it starts the "Partition check" and it sits there until
it timesout and reports "timeout waiting for DMA" then resets
the bus with DMA disabled.
Here are my questions:
Why is it reporting "PIIX3: not 100% native mode"?
Why does it timeout waiting for DMA?
Am I right in understanding that because DMA is disabled it is
not using BUS Mastering?
Thank you,
Allen Unueco
------------------------------
From: George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 06:57:38 GMT
Frank Sweetser wrote:
>
> George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Has some nice features, i.e. a hierarchy in the file, paths, some OO features
> > i.e. overrides, final, ...
> >
> > There are a few things that would stop me from using it
> >
> > No write capability
>
> there's a tool with it that dumps out the entire configuration to stdout,
> so i'd imagine that this should'nt be too hard.
I want to be able to update the config from within an application, i.e.
a preference type mechanism. I have been thinking about what it would
take to create X resources on the fly, and update an application
config file. In fact it could be several config files that are included
in one X resource file. But this design requires X, which is not generic
enough for all applications.
It is also missing many advanced features, such as ensuring changes
are made atomically to multiple config files.
>
> > No typing/classifying of values so can't write one parser - see
> > SNMP MIB's
>
> not sure what you mean here... would you mind clarying this a bit?
Sure,
SNMP = Simple Network Management Protocol,
MIB = Management Information Base
SNMP conists of simple commands to get/set values for objects on a SNMP
agent. An agent is just a piece of software that runs on some network hardware,
i.e. routers, gateways, switches, ... Each of these devices, also called
network elements, have a bunch of configuration related data, plus typically
other status info, performance info ... The info on each device is described
in the MIB, kindof like a schema, which includes name, type, ...
The MIB is a data file, it can be read by Network Management Systems which
can then query the devices for information and or get/set config parameters.
The really cool thing is that the NMS systems have *no* code that is
written for the specific piece of hardware! i.e. new hardware can
be supported just by adding new data files.
This is very powerful, and I was thinking it would be great if an
application configuration service could be modeled on that kind
of architecture. i.e. that tools could be written to manipulate
config information that they are not specifically written for.
In other words, make the whole thing data driven.
In fact one could write MIB's for applications and then register
them. Each system could then run the snmpd program with subagents
to interface with the app configuration files and even with
the running applications. Some very large organizations might
be very interested in such a capability as it would fit within
their MIS mechanisms.
>
> > No range specifiers so can't have independent tools validate configs
>
> shouldn't be hard for numerical values, not sure how it would apply to
> strings.
Well, one needs an external description to know what type the fields are.
Strings are more complicated, some simple ones are length, list of
valid OCTETS, ... This is an area where plug in modules might be useful.
>
> > No syncronized writes i.e. for multiple processes
>
> > No networking so I can pull config from another site
> > No publishing so I can publish part of my config.
>
> what protocols would you propose using?
>
I was thinking of developing one, then also allowing SNMP, CORBA,
RPC, HTTP, ... to be added as modules. Many of these are not
required for small systems, which for the most part could get
by with a small library. The above protocols would allow
adaptation to existing large site managment mechanisms.
The protocol I had in mind was an OO based extensible protocol
which would allow security, encryption, authentication objects
to be pushed in the protocol stream as needed.
It would be easier to just say CORBA, but I don't want to be
bound to it as it's not yet universal.
--
We stand on the shoulders of those giants who coded before.
Build a good layer, stand strong, and prepare for the next wave.
Guide those who come after you, give them your shoulder, lend them your code.
Code well and live! - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (7th Coding Battalion)
------------------------------
From: George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 07:06:37 GMT
Leslie Mikesell wrote:
>
> In article <76ov5b$jkt$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In article <76mq45$93n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>
> >What I'm
> >talking about is organizing all of the text files into a central place or
> >system. Imagine the sendmail.cf as a tree, with rulesets all being leaves,
> >macros being a leaf, C-lines as a leaf, etc... My point is, there are better
> >ways to do things than laying them out in a single flat file. You dont need
> >to change the way sendmail works to better organize it's information.
>
> I think you are trying to solve the wrong problem. I've never heard
> anyone complain about how hard sendmail has to work. The complaints
> you hear are about how hard it is to understand the config file. However
> these complaints are mostly from people who haven't used the m4 preprocessor
> to generate the config from the macro models. Being able to use all of
> the traditional tools to solve problems is a very big argument in favor
> of sticking to text files. Backwards compatibility is the other issue.
> If you develop something new for new programs you might improve things
> with a new configuration API. You can't help breaking things if you
> try to change old programs.
>
> >> You can bring the system up in single user mode to fix things in some
> >> circumstances. In slightly worse cases you can boot from a floppy
> >> with a small toolkit and rebuild most things with just a text editor.
> >> How do you propose to fix a registry based system when its database
> >> is damaged to a point that it won't run? Is this something you expect
> >> to fit on an already crowded floppy?
> >
> >Doesn't it logically follow that if configuration is done through one API or
> >one system that the boot floppy would not be so crowded?
>
> Only if the API is simpler than a text editor and text editors are
> pretty simple. I think the real problems that should be tackled
> here are:
>
> Providing a handholding fill-in-the-form wrapper that checks syntax
> so you don't crash the system you are trying to reconfigure with a
> simple typo. I think this is the real problem with free-format files
> and fixing it while maintaining backwards compatibility won't be easy.
> Linuxconf, webmin, and some other projects make an attempt at this.
> I don't know if any completely succeed or if they allow existing
> comments in the text files to be maintained.
>
> Provide a revision control wrapper so you can log reasons for changes
> and back up to any known previous version. This would be trivial
> as long as everyone uses it.
>
Do you think using CVS for this would be sufficient?
> Provide concurrency control when multiple people edit the same file.
> Again, easy if everyone uses the same wrapper.
>
> Provide automatic network distribution of system-wide changes.
>
> For new programs a scheme of hierarchical control would be nice
> with an option as to who is in control (most-local or most-global).
>
--
We stand on the shoulders of those giants who coded before.
Build a good layer, stand strong, and prepare for the next wave.
Guide those who come after you, give them your shoulder, lend them your code.
Code well and live! - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (7th Coding Battalion)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Dowling)
Subject: Kernel numbering convention, explainations anybody?
Date: 4 Jan 1999 08:29:13 GMT
As I understand it, the kernels will be numbered 2.m.n, where m is an even
number for the stable kernels, and an odd number for the development
kernels. The number n is the patch level.
What would it take, if anything, to get a 3.m.n kernel?
Just curious,
Mike Dowling
--
My email address [EMAIL PROTECTED] above is a valid email address.
It is, in fact, a sendmail alias; the digit 'N' is incremented regularly.
Spammed aliases will be deleted. Currently, mike5 has been deleted.
If email to mikeN bounces, try mikeN+1.
------------------------------
From: Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Kernel numbering convention, explainations anybody?
Date: 04 Jan 1999 03:40:40 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Dowling) writes:
> As I understand it, the kernels will be numbered 2.m.n, where m is an even
> number for the stable kernels, and an odd number for the development
> kernels. The number n is the patch level.
>
> What would it take, if anything, to get a 3.m.n kernel?
there would have to be sufficiently radical changes for linus to decide it
warrants it. for example, 1.2 -> 2.0 included such new features as SMP and
multiple arch's in the same tar files.
--
Frank Sweetser rasmusin at wpi.edu fsweetser at blee.net | PGP key available
paramount.ind.wpi.edu RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.2.0pre3 i586 | at public servers
Well, duh. OF COURSE you drink lots of caffeinated drinks. Every
programmer knows that. And after 20h of caffeinated drinks, the screen
starts looking a bit wavy. And yes, 8-character indents help a lot.
- Linus Torvalds
------------------------------
From: Erwin de Beus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Matrox Millenium G-200 Drivers
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 09:38:35 +0100
Yes, XFree 3.3.3 runs on my Matrox G200 Marvel AGP. Although Gimp
manages to crash the server in 32 bit mode. (Have to look in to that).
Erwin de Beus
------------------------------
From: Steven Hand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ppp-compress-xx problem in 2.2.0-pre4
Date: 04 Jan 1999 09:27:04 +0000
David Ronis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I've just finished installing 2.2.0-pre4 on an i486. It runs, however
> I've been getting the following error(?) reported in my messages file:
>
> modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-21
> modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-26
> modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-24
You need to add the following lines to /etc/conf.modules (or /etc/modules.conf)
alias ppp-compress-21 bsd_comp
alias ppp-compress-24 ppp_deflate
alias ppp-compress-26 ppp_deflate
HTH,
S.
------------------------------
From: Philippe Le Foll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Soundcard with Digital in?
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 13:21:51 +0100
A James Lewis wrote:
>
> Are any soundcards with an audio digital in supported under Linux (Indeed,
> do any such beasts exist?)....
>
> Basically what I want to do is make a CD from a minidisk master... but I
> need somthing that will be able to transfer the digital datastream into a
> sequence of WAV files... that means it would need to read Q codes in the
> stream too in order to separate at a track boundry......
>
> Anyone have any experience?
>
> James ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> My Windows unders~1 long filena~1, and yours?
I would like to do the same think, if you have any answer please
let me know.
Thank you
Philippe
--
La vitesse peut tuer: Utilisez Windows (o^o)
======================================oOO==(~)==OOo========
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Philippe Le Foll Fridu (+33/0)609.794.781
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 01:46:02 +0000
From: Bill Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Soundcard with Digital in?
Za2 from Zefiro (?) has some driver support.
David Fox wrote:
>
> A James Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Are any soundcards with an audio digital in supported under Linux (Indeed,
> > do any such beasts exist?)....
> >
> > Basically what I want to do is make a CD from a minidisk master... but I
> > need somthing that will be able to transfer the digital datastream into a
> > sequence of WAV files... that means it would need to read Q codes in the
> > stream too in order to separate at a track boundry......
> >
> > Anyone have any experience?
>
> No experience, but I believe there is an add-on card to the Turtle
> Beach Fiji that does this, and there is Linux support. See
> http://www.rpi.edu/~veliaa/pinlinux.html for more info.
> --
> David Fox http://hci.ucsd.edu/dsf xoF divaD
> UCSD HCI Lab baL ICH DSCU
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Villy Kruse)
Subject: Re: Kernel numbering convention, explainations anybody?
Date: 4 Jan 1999 12:01:52 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mike Dowling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>As I understand it, the kernels will be numbered 2.m.n, where m is an even
>number for the stable kernels, and an odd number for the development
>kernels. The number n is the patch level.
>
>What would it take, if anything, to get a 3.m.n kernel?
>
A disission by Linus and the other kernel developers. Same as when the
release went from 1.m.n to 2.m.n
Villy
------------------------------
From: "James A. Cleland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Matrox Millenium G-200 Drivers
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 04:51:54 -0500
Erwin de Beus wrote:
> Yes, XFree 3.3.3 runs on my Matrox G200 Marvel AGP. Although Gimp
> manages to crash the server in 32 bit mode. (Have to look in to that).
>
> Erwin de Beus
What resolution do you notice the problems with? All of them? I know that
Matrox cards have a hard time (read: don't do it) with 32bpp over
1280x1024. Higher resolutions should use packed TC (24bpp) instead, even
with 16megs. Some servers might let you actually set 32bpp at 1600x1200,
for instance, but I wouldn't try it :)
Good luck,
James
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
Subject: Re: ppp-compress-xx problem in 2.2.0-pre4
Date: 4 Jan 1999 01:45:51 -0800
David Ronis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I've just finished installing 2.2.0-pre4 on an i486. It runs, however
>I've been getting the following error(?) reported in my messages file:
>
> modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-21
> modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-26
> modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-24
>
>PPP seems to work, although I don't know if I'm getting
>compression. (lsmod doesn't show bsd_compress or ppp_deflate being
>loaded when ppp is running).
>
>There is a module request in ppp.c, and I suspect that the problem is
>that I need an alias in /etc/conf.modules. Unfortunately, grepping
>the source tree for ppp-compress doesn't show what it is.
A search in DejaNews reveals that the solution is to add
the following to your /etc/conf.modules file:
alias ppp-compress-21 bsd_comp
alias ppp-compress-26 ppp_deflate
alias ppp-compress-24 ppp_deflate
It's not clear that the third line is necessary.
Try it first without.
--
Nathan Myers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cantrip.org/
------------------------------
From: Ewing James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GUI, The Next Generation
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:57:49 +0100
How about revining the PARC experimental GUI with 'rooms' and 'views'.
As I recall, they essentially mapped 2D windows into 3D cubes called
'rooms'. Each 'room' was in turn mapped to a hypercube and displayed
information as to what 'views' it contained.
Other refinements were directory trees in 3D.
How about a VR interface designed for shutter glasses or 3D displays and a
fingertip stylus that allows 'touch and move' instead of point and click?
James Ewing
------------------------------
Subject: Re: 'make xconfig' problem in 2.2.0-pre2
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 04 Jan 1999 06:08:48 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels) writes:
> and changing line 23 to
>
> 23 if [ "$CONFIG_M386" = "y" ]; then
>
> fixes the problem.
thanks!
now if i could fit the menu on my screen. it's so tall that even with
1152x864 either the top or bottom gets cut off.
--
Johan Kullstam [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development.system) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Development-System Digest
******************************
