Linux-Development-Sys Digest #774, Volume #6 Thu, 3 Jun 99 23:14:21 EDT
Contents:
Re: Terabite Plus Filesystems ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: What are the differences between mySQL and mSQL? (Don Baccus)
Re: What are the differences between mySQL and mSQL? (Terrance Zellers)
Re: You can earn $50,000 by learning programming skills and applying yourself ("Dan
Hinojosa")
Strange kernel log message: kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 55 (YEUNG WAI)
Function as OLE compound document? ("Enosh Chang")
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
busy inodes (Joern Schimmelpfeng)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Christopher B. Browne)
Re: can 2 linux machines talk to a dual port scsi raid system ?? (Pete Zaitcev)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.misc,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.hp.misc
Subject: Re: Terabite Plus Filesystems
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:19:16 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> We are building a system that needs to handle a huge number of files
> that are 500KB-1MB in size (1-2TB total).
The total number of files in a directory can kill you. In nuclear
stuff... I have seen 10k to 20k file counts in a machine destroy
ALL performance. The filesystem MUST use a B-Tree to store
filenames and the OS needs to be able to cache this.
> Our only constraint right now
> is the desire to use intel-based hardware for the host computers for
> cost purposes.
I would drop this desire.
>My question really is regarding which OS would best
> handle a filesystem of this size. We are using lots of unix and NT so
> we don't have a bias one way but we don't have experience with any OS
> using a filesystem this big. What we are considering for hardware are
> HP LPr hosts connected to a AL-FC RAID system (probably HP). We would
> want to pick either HPUX, linux, NT or Solaris x86. Any experience
> that could be passed would be great.
I hate HP for this type of work. to unstable.
Solaris is umm fair. I would really say If you want ! TB and
good performance get an Alpha and VMS.
VMS is still the best OS in the world. Yeah it may not be pretty
and quake may not run on it , However; VMS machines have uptimes
measuered in multiples of years and their secure/stable.
Leslie Donaldson
Note: I am NOT a VMS advocate I just recomend the best OS for the job.
and when large filesystems and stability are a core issue.... VMS
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.lang.java.databases
Subject: Re: What are the differences between mySQL and mSQL?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Don Baccus)
Date: 3 Jun 1999 16:52:20 PST
In article <r7E53.54$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.development.apps Don Baccus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>: Not necessarily true. If you have several related tables
>: that need to be logically updated at once, the atomicity of
>: the transactional model is, well, useful if there's a crash
>: while records are being inserted or updated.
>yes, that's true. I tend to like hardware raid, just for this very
>reason. its a crutch that simpler db model's can leverage from.
RAID doesn't help you if the entire system crashes while
you update a set of related tables. It removes one kind
of hardware failure (or greatly lessens the odds, two
disks can fail at the same time, after all!) but not all.
>: It sounds like your application's really simple, and MySQL
>: sounds like it's great for you.
>for my stuff, its stood up to constant polling, monitoring, web-based
>reporting and trouble-ticket submission at a major computer company in
>the silicon valley. its been in-place for almost 2 yrs now and
>continues to go strong. the mysql system hasn't given me much trouble
>and it was SO easy to install (even from source) and to code/interface
>with.
MySQL has a reputation for being very good at what it does.
It's just that it's not a transaction-based db.
My only disagreement with you is that you made some statements
about when you do/do not need transactions, statements that
were wrong.
Now hopefully you know a little more and hopefully you're
correct that it doesn't matter for YOUR application.
>(fwiw, I was very close to just using flatfiles on this project since
>I had nothing but bad times with previous sql db's. but I decided to
>give this one a chance and hope it would 'redeem' all the bad karma I
>had with sql. it did make a convert out of me and now I'm a huge
>proponent of -simple- sql implementations. I understand that
>lightweight isn't for everyone, but it sure does the trick for many
>apps that don't need the $100M performance of Oracle and its ilk.)
The complication factor's a pain with these huge enterprise-scale
systems.
That's one reason I'm hoping Postgres continues to improve. It's
easy to install, there are hardly any management options so by
definition it's easy to manage, and it's transaction based.
It will never scale like a "real" db engine, that's the penalty
for simplicity I guess. The work I'm doing definitely wants
the transaction model (because I use related tables that need
to be kept in a consistent state for readers), otherwise I'd
most certainly look at MySQL.
--
- Don Baccus, Portland OR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Nature photos, on-line guides, at http://donb.photo.net
------------------------------
From: Terrance Zellers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What are the differences between mySQL and mSQL?
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.lang.java.databases
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:00:26 GMT
In comp.lang.java.databases Jon Smirl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: It's not clear to me that I want the ability to modify my database engine.
: Commercial versions of these engines go through extreme reliability testing
: before being released.
: Sybase on Linux is completely free in binary form - check out
: http://linux.sybase.com. If you want to use Perl you don't have to buy
: anything.
: The Sybase Java driver for Linux is not free, but you only need the
: workplace version to cover Linux.
: http://www.sybase.com/products/internet/jconnect/ It costs $495. This gives
: you an unlimited user, commerical deployment license. $495 is less than
: msql/mysql would cost for commercial use. There is a free eval of JConnect
: available too.
Just a minor correction. MySQL's commercial license is required only
if you resell the product (though I urge all commercial users to pay it!)
and is only $200 (about due to currency fluctuations). The two jdbc
drivers free for edu/private or $25/commercial in one case and LGPL in the
other - and there are many other apps and interfaces available on similar
terms.
-- TWZ
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Copyright 1999 by Terrence W. Zellers. All rights explicitly reserved. |
| email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.voicenet.com/~zellert/pub.key |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| War is harmful to children and other living things. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: "Dan Hinojosa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.javascript,comp.lang.perl.misc,comp.lang.tcl,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: You can earn $50,000 by learning programming skills and applying yourself
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:16:05 -0600
MONEY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> THE PROGRAM
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
> INCREDIBLE $0 to $50,000 in 90 days!!!
>
> Dear Friend,
>
> You can earn $50,000 or more in next the 90 days sending e-mail. Seem
> impossible? Read on for details.
>
This is no joke! I was pennyless in 1990, and then I learned C++ and Java,
and all of a sudden it all came together. All of a sudden, I had respect
for myself, and I was making $50,000 and more. The best part about it, is
that I didn't have to lower my dignity and annoy people with high IQs that
wouldn't fall this swindle anyway!
Love,
Digital Priest
------------------------------
From: YEUNG WAI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Strange kernel log message: kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 55
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:56:43 +0800
I have installed the Redhat 6.0 (kernel-2.2.5) to a dual CPU Intel PC with
SCSI disk. I found that some strange messages quite offen come out in the
system log /var/log/messages every minute like:
Jun 4 07:32:59 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 51 to 2
Jun 4 07:34:00 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 51 to 4
Jun 4 07:35:01 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 51 to 5
Jun 4 08:09:05 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 58 to 9
Jun 4 08:10:06 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 58 to 10
Jun 4 08:11:07 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 58 to 11
Jun 4 08:12:08 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 58 to 12
Jun 4 08:35:11 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 54 to 5
Jun 4 08:36:12 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 54 to 6
Jun 4 08:37:13 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 54 to 7
Jun 4 08:38:14 hqlxcl01 kernel: set_rtc_mmss: can't update from 54 to 8
Do anyone know the reason, does it indicate some problem in the kernel or
hardware?
I also installed the same version of Redhat 6.0 to single CPU with IDE disk
but I don't see such messages.
Thanks
david
------------------------------
From: "Enosh Chang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.object.corba,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Function as OLE compound document?
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:54:28 +0800
Hi all:
I want to make sure that is there any function like OLE to generate
compound document in Linux?
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:29:11 GMT
Alexander Viro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Oh? "Design" as in "I've no idea how to write but I have tons of cool
: ideas regarding what you, guys, should do"?
you are free to ignore the post. in fact if you are not
interested, why are you posting a reply at all? you seem
to be wasting your time by your own insinuation. I truly sympathize
with your plight. sometimes I find my time wasted quite frequently as
well.
[write the code and then call me dammit]
: Maybe it's time to think about the reasons behind such objections, sir?
er, because many people are grouchy by nature and like to take it out
on others on usenet..? because they don't like visionary statements
in their area of expertise by someone they don't know personally?
etc.?
: It's not a flame, it's diagnosis. Besides, I *really* couldn't care less
: for you manhood (for any of your properties, for that matter). I have to
: point to the fact that none of the groups where you crossposted your text
: is postmodernism-related. Your essay is full of nicely-ordered buzzwords
: but it is essentially contents-free. You may win an undying admiration in
: rec.arts.*. Unfortunately you've chosen a different set of groups. That's
: it.
somebody told me in email you have a reputation "here", (verbatim,
"sorry alexander is such an ass" hehehe) which I am completely
ignorant of, so I apologize to you in advance for this oversight
on my part. next time I should clear the post with you ahead of time
so as not to invade your realm, mr. alpha male. fair enough?? hehehe.
--
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"in theory, there's no difference [EMAIL PROTECTED]
between theory and practice, mad genius research lab
but in practice there is!" http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:22:06 GMT
Bill Vermillion ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: The concept is a file is a file is
: a file .... Just a stream of bits.
for a long time, in C, functions were considered all that
was necesary. C++ introduced the idea of objects. I am
suggesting the same may be true for file systems. treating
a file as "just a stream of bits" is appropriate at
one level of abstraction, but we need a higher level of
abstraction in which *every* entity in the OS is simply
an object. implementing this as "raw bytes" does not
conern me too much. now, I'm not saying this is gonna
happen tomorrow. but I do believe in a few years, all
serious OSes will be object oriented.
[deinstallation]
: Again - Windows and non-Unix systems. The good Unix systems
: require nothing more than clicking on a program name and clicking
: remove or install. Not all Unix systems behave that well but many
: of the commercial installs do. The will also check for
: dependancies, and give you options of loading the dependancies, or
: aborting the install.
I would like to see a system in the OS in which it keeps track
of which applications created what files. i.e. every application
exists in its own sandbox. such a system has incredible usefulness.
in fact a point I didn't bring out in the essay well is the
idea that the whole system is "sandboxes within sandboxes"
for fault tolerance.
: The only time I've had one of these fail in a half-baked state was
: a vendor supplied driver, that when it failed, it removed the files
: IT thought it had installed, but also took a couple of system
: library files with it.
this kind of thing is incredibly common with an OS and I suggest
the OS should be designed to handle it. "half baked state"-- exactly.
now maybe linux doesn't have as bad a record as Win95, but imho
it can still be better handled, and it makes sense to implement it.
: I gave up MS pretty much when I moved to *ix in 1983. Many things
: you describe in TAOS are there in current modern commercial Unix
: systems. There is more to Unix than just Linux.
ok, "let's" get it in linux, or some new OS that will
achieve world domination <g>
--
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"in theory, there's no difference [EMAIL PROTECTED]
between theory and practice, mad genius research lab
but in practice there is!" http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/
------------------------------
From: Joern Schimmelpfeng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: busy inodes
Date: 3 Jun 1999 15:02:29 GMT
Hello,
what does the message:
>lockd_down: not running
>/home unmounted
>VFS: busy inodes after umount
> self-destruct in 5 sec. Have a nice day.
>/usr busy
tell me ?
this message occurs while shutting down a linux 2.2.5 kernel. /home is a
nfs-fs mounted from a server. There was no data-loss, I think because of
the remote fs.
but now I'm curious, what had happened and if this may repeat oneself.
bye
J�rn
--
J�rn Schimmelpfeng
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 02:17:37 GMT
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:28:30 GMT, Vladimir Z. Nuri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
posted:
>Alexander Viro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>: [Tons of marketspeak]
>
>"design document"
>
>: Where is your code? Talk is cheap
>
>I agree, so are tiresome and predictable objections all
>along the same lines.
It is tiresome to keep seeing design that sees no implementation,
and where there seems to be little reason to expect it.
"Tunes" is a pretty cool set of OS ideas, that would provide a more
powerful, featureful platform than any other. It's unfortunate that
the design process stalled on the issue that there does not exist a
suitable language for its implementation.
>: - unless you can demonstrate a code your
>: words are worth nothing.
>
>"call me when you have a complete system and I will
>take it from you for free, and possibly not call you
>a bozo anymore"
Existing code trumps "cool ideas that may never be implemented."
>: Sorry, but you sound like a cross between manager and
>: salesweasel and those animals are, erm, not too good in producing things.
>: Write something that would work and demonstrate it.
>
>I produced an essay far longer than your predictable flame.
>write something that challenges the essay rather than
>my manhood or hacker-esque geek quotient.
When the specifics have no grounding in actual implementation, there's
little there that can be challenged. Any objection may be countered by
the trivial "Oh, but that's not how it would be implemented."
And in the Real World, benchmarks can only be based on scenarios that
may be concretely expressed. Theory may be useful in explaining why
behaviour was found to either conform to expectations, or in why it
*didn't* conform to expectations.
Systems that haven't been implemented can't do useful work...
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
------------------------------
Subject: Re: can 2 linux machines talk to a dual port scsi raid system ??
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Zaitcev)
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 02:24:18 GMT
dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>i have a dual port scsi raid system with 2 linux systems connected to it
>both run redhat 5.2
>there is an ext2 filesystem on the raid box (~26Gbytes)
>[...]
>is there a way to get linux to "relook" at the disk ?
>rebooting the system takes too long, i am looking for
>a faster way of seeing the files
>i hope this makes sense
Yes Dan, it does, BUT... there is no way to achieve what you want
short of connecting these two systems with some sort of interconnect
and running a clustering software.
What you may do, is to work around the file system and access the
RAID volume. This does not give you the flexibility of a file system
but that's the way it works.
--Pete
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development.system) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Development-System Digest
******************************
