Linux-Development-Sys Digest #864, Volume #7 Tue, 16 May 00 21:13:14 EDT
Contents:
Re: Webmin (Don Heffernan)
Re: Finding the status of a process (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: inline to the extreme??? (Eric Taylor)
Re: using ftp within a C-program ("Frank")
Re: Need input on developing a unified configuration program for linux (Victor
Wagner)
Re: Need input on developing a unified configuration program for linux (Victor
Wagner)
Re: G++ (egcs) problems with pow() under optimisation (Matthias Kleinmann)
Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Mongoose)
Re: binary compression -- good or bad? (John Reiser)
hardware docs (Ken Schrock)
Re: ANSI C & void main() (Pete Cervasio)
Re: binary compression -- good or bad? (John Reiser)
how do i get winmodem working? (Brian Begg)
Re: Need input on developing a unified configuration program for linux (Christopher
Browne)
Re: binary compression -- good or bad? (John Reiser)
Re: Writing in files (John McKown)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Don Heffernan)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Webmin
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:09:50 GMT
I use SSL Webmin for my home system. Works fine, but I am no
sysadmin. Frankly, at the time I set it up I didn't know how to
setup secure shell at home and work and Webmin was a simple option
that allowed me to use my browser from work.
Don
On Tue, 16 May 2000 21:08:54 GMT, Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone used the system administration program Webmin?
>http://www.webmin.com/webmin/
>I got this and thought it was a pretty good project. This was along
>the lines of the same project I was going to start, but decided not to
>since this was pretty much the same program I was going to do. But the
>thing is, I havn't seen many people use this. I've asked around about
>these types of programs but no one has ever mentioned it. Does anyone
>have any opinions on it?
Don Heffernan
heffernan.cais.net
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Finding the status of a process
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:02:06 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Doug Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have a program that forks a process. I would like the process that
> did the forking to be able to get the status of the forked process.
> The parent process has the process ID of the forked process. How do I
> find what the exit status of the forked process is (if it has exited),
> or some piece of information that would allow me to conclude that the
> process is still running? Any help is appreciated.
man waitpid
--
Stefaan
--
--PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)--
Ninety-Ninety Rule of Project Schedules:
The first ninety percent of the task takes ninety percent of
the time, and the last ten percent takes the other ninety percent.
------------------------------
From: Eric Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: inline to the extreme???
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:54:21 -0700
Josef Moellers wrote:
>
> Eric Taylor wrote:
>
> > Is there a simple way to turn off all that
> > in-lining to see what the difference might be?
> > Just removing the word inline would only affect
> > a single file.c as many of these inlined procedures
> > are in .h files and so get repeated many places.
>
> Have you tried something like adding a -Dinline="" option to the topmost
> kernel Makefile?
Yes, I got a string of error messages which I did not
try to diagnose further. I think there is something non-standard
about the use of inline in the procedure def. When I tried to
compile these routines with another compiler, it didn't accept
the inline keyword in that position.
e
------------------------------
From: "Frank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: using ftp within a C-program
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:14:45 GMT
Jarmo Salonen <5YgU4.7742$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
^
^ Hi how can I get files from a remote machine with FTP within
^ a C-program are there any similar API functions like the one
^ that MS has in their WinInet API.
^
I've never heard of a WinInet API but the Windows Sockets API (Winsock) is
very similar to the Berkeley Sockets API, which is what Linux appears to be
using. Are you referring to Winsock or to some kind of plug-n-play type
programming API?
Frank
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Victor Wagner)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need input on developing a unified configuration program for linux
Date: 16 May 2000 21:55:23 +0400
In comp.os.linux.misc AnonymousCoward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> HTML is absolutely the way to go.
:>
:> However ...
:> What happens if you want to change the IP number of your linux box?!!
:>
: Changing your box's IP is not a problem, because you would be using the
: loopback IP, not your box's internet IP. 127.0.0.1 will always get the
: current machine.
But other aspects of networking configuration are. In BSDI 3.1 we've a
trouble when we misconfigured resolv.conf and machine was unable to
resolve name localhost. And some links in configuration interface use
name localhost. (Most of links was, of course relative, becouse
Web-based administration system worth nothing if you cannot configure
remote machine)
BTW, I always wonder why people assume that Linux box always have
keyboard and monitor and able to start web browser locally.
--
The code also assumes that it's difficult to misspell "a" or "b". :-)
-- Larry Wall in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Victor Wagner)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need input on developing a unified configuration program for linux
Date: 16 May 2000 22:09:55 +0400
In comp.os.linux.misc Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: I was going to allow remote administration of the system. I know
: this creates lots of security problems but none that can't be solved.
: As for linuxconf... linuxconf is actually the reason why I'm making
: this program. Linuxconf is pretty messy and disorganized. But the main
: reason is that linuxconf only allows C++ modules to be added into the
Then look on the BSDi configuration system, called maxim.
It was created by professional programmers, highly respected by me
(which I couldn't tell about majority of modern opensource developers,
especially developers of such things as linuxconf, KDE and GNOME).
And yet they failed as miserably as team of volonteers who wrote
linuxconf.
Try to learn something from their mistakes. BSDi now have merged with
FreeBSD, so there are chances that sources of maxim are available.
Or found someone with working BSDi system, who trust you enough to run
configuration interface on his machine.
: program, and they have to be written to work with a new interface
: users have to learn. I was going to write my program to allow modules
: in any language. As long as they can do STDIO. They just output their
: html page, the web server can serve it and then send data back to the
: program, using cgi. It won't matter what language its written in and
: the user will just have to learn html and cgi, which most people
: already know. As for the web server, I was going to write my own mini
: webserver, if there wasn't one already. Just enough to serve the pages
This is very right decision. Becouse it would allow you to start and
stop main web-server. Think about optional https support (may be using
stunnel if found installed), which would allow to use your interface to
configure rackmounted web-servers located at ISPs.
: on a different port. This way the user configuring their system
: wouldn't be required to have a web server installed, and I wouldn't be
: running through port80 creating and more security issues.
: Which kinda brings me to another question. Is passing data through
: stdio a good idea? Won't certain characters, like high ascii
: characters, get lost if you try to pipe them through stdio?
Never mind. I use Russian, which users characters with high bit, and
never have problems passing Russian texts via pipes.
Moreover, binary data can be safely passed. Consider for example:
gunzip -c something.tar.gz | tar -xf -
BTW, i'm not sure that placing functionality of CGI script inside each
module is very good idea. Module should write out something more simple
than complete HTML page and read in something _much_ more simple then
HTTP query string (even worse, POST data with multipart/form-data type).
May be specialized XML DTD would be better. And your mini-webserver
would translate it into HTML forms.
Really, using problem oriented markup language would help if people
want to develop other interfaces for same modules, i.e. console menu
interface (yes, one might run lynx or links, but ...), GTK/KDE interface
or even some kind of automated configuration robot which talk with user
on natural language and contain builtin expert system.
At least robot which would automatically configure big number of
workstations in some large college or corporation is definitely
possible.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Kleinmann)
Subject: Re: G++ (egcs) problems with pow() under optimisation
Date: 16 May 2000 23:11:05 GMT
[...]
>I've got egcs-2.90.29 980515.
Try a newer one :)
>Can anybody reproduce the error on their g++ compilers?
No:
$ vi t.cc
---c&p---
$ g++ -O -o t.x t.cc
$ ./t.x
1.577441
$ g++ --version
egcs-2.91.66
>------------
>#include <math.h>
>#include <stdio.h>
>
>void main(int argc, char **argv){
> char modelFileName[254], classFileName[254], saveFileName[254];
> printf("%f\n", pow(1.2,2.5)); fflush(stdout);
>}
Matthias
------------------------------
From: Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:47:56 GMT
Hello,
I am attempting to start a college project and have two of my
ideas already being worked on. So I wanted to know what other people
had for suggestions for linux projects? I was thinking of something
along the lines of a project that would help promote the use of linux.
What is something that most people could use? Something that could
make a good 1 year R&D project?
------------------------------
From: John Reiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: binary compression -- good or bad?
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:13:52 -0700
[regarding compression of binary programs for current machines:]
> ... If disk space is an extreme issue, you
> won't have the space swap space, anyway. It's certainly not something
> that would be effective on a ZIP disk based system. And for floppies,
> the current practice of compressing initrd and uncompressing it into RAM
> is the most optimal, I'm sure you'd agree.
It depends on the environment. Consider when both RAM and the persistent
storage medium are space-limited ("too small for comfort"). For example,
a LinuxRouterProject in 5 MB of RAM and 1.44 to 1.7 MB of floppy disk
or flash memory or EPROM. Then using a large compressed initrd will
deplete RAM too much. It is better to compress most individual programs in
the persistent storage, and decompress them at exec() time, even though
compressing individual files loses some space in the filesystem compared to
compressing a tarball.
And even a 96MB ZIP disk quickly looks small...
--
John Reiser, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Ken Schrock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: hardware docs
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:10:05 GMT
Where do you folks find hardware docs?
(example HP PP Scanner commands, EPP\ECP config, etc)
Please e-mail me.
--
Ken Schrock
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Pete Cervasio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ANSI C & void main()
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:12:33 -0500
On 14 May 2000 15:11:37 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Actually, I had a hard time understanding that line of the standard --
>what exactly does it mean when it says the type of the function isn't
>specified by the standard, but it must return an int? I'm not clear
>on just what the type of a function is, if not its return type.
I'm no expert at the ANSI C standard, but it sounds to me like they're
saying that main() must return an int, but they are leaving it up to
the implementation to define just what an int is. 32, 64 or however
many bits the compiler writer thought an int should be.
Just a thought.
Best regards,
Pete C.
=================================================================
Replace the domain with airmail dot net, if you want to email me.
All spam goes to my ISP's abuse dept. They get people terminated!
=================================================================16,
------------------------------
From: John Reiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: binary compression -- good or bad?
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:22:42 -0700
> This is pretty sure a hard thing to do. I doubt that many of the current
> compression algorithms support the needed action "give me byte x thru
> x+4096 of the uncompressed data, i.e. load one page of code, with just
> the compressed data available". It is a big question if this action can
> be implemented fast enough without wasting too much memory otherwise.
I believe that the 'lxlite' executable compressor for OS/2 does this.
And "typical" compressed programs do invoke in less wall clock time
than when not compressed. Disks are so _slow_, even when compared to
CPUs of 3 and 4 years ago.
In theory, any block compressor can just set the blocksize to 4KB.
The problem is dealing with pages that don't compress at least 2:1, etc.
--
John Reiser, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brian Begg)
Subject: how do i get winmodem working?
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:22:26 GMT
16 May 2000
Hello all:
I have RedHat 5.2, unpgraded to 6.0, running on an intel-like
586 PC, but its on one partition (windows 98 -- ugh! -- is
running on the other partition of the same Gateway-configured
machine).
I have a Telepath 56k internet winmodem, and I would like
desparately to get it working with the Linux 6.0. How can I do
this? What do I have to "tweek" on the chipset? Is it possible?
Any help would help, e-mail if u wish.
Respectfully,
Brian ----> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need input on developing a unified configuration program for linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:27:40 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Richard Huxton would say:
>Alexander Viro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8fq877$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >html page, the web server can serve it and then send data back to
>the
>> >program, using cgi. It won't matter what language its written in
>and
>> >the user will just have to learn html and cgi, which most people
>> >already know.
>>
>> <shudder> Considering the quality of HTML floating around (let alone
>> CGI - that's a separate rant) I wouldn't use the word "know". Aside
>of
>> the biblical sense, that is...
>>
>Might be a better idea to restrict your modules to accepting/producing
>XML (if you feel up to designing a DTD). That way you can keep the
>interface simple and separate out the look & feel.
>Each module could receive one XML document and return one XML
>document - have your code translate it to/from HTML/CGI.
>This would also let you handle a load of validation, so that
>IP_Address and Email_Address are defined in a standard manner.
>Doesn't have to be XML, regardless that its flavour of the month, but
>there are plenty of parsing libraries people could use.
Passing around XML is all well and interesting, but requires having a
translation layer to transform it into HTML.
Adding a couple more languages to the mix would be helpful _HOW_?!?!?
>> > Which kinda brings me to another question. Is passing data
>through
>> >stdio a good idea? Won't certain characters, like high ascii
>> >characters, get lost if you try to pipe them through stdio?
>
>XML would also let you deal with accented characters etc. Oh yeah,
>encourage people to keep all their text in separate files to allow
>easy translation. Oh, and have a standard for storing help-text too,
>it'll help to keep things standard.
>
>Not a small project if you're looking to do it right.
Using XML would either require putting extra layers into the server
side of the application, or mandate using web browsers that are still
experimental and which don't run all that well on Linux yet, and
pretty much deny any ability to do sysadmin tasks without running X.
There isn't a console mode web browser that speaks XML yet.
--
Wiener's Law of Libraries:
There are no answers, only cross references.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: John Reiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: binary compression -- good or bad?
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:45:08 -0700
> The thing that you miss is that the approach mandates uncompressing
> the program once it gets into memory.
>
> THAT forces the whole thing into RAM, which is going to be a severe
> "loss" from two perspectives, by defeating "demand paging."
>
> 1. It means the whole program has to be loaded into memory _RIGHT
> AWAY_.
>
> With demand paging, stuff that isn't used right away doesn't get
> loaded YET.
>
> 2. It means the whole program has to be loaded into memory.
>
> With demand paging, parts of the program that never execute may
> never get loaded into memory.
For many common compiled executables (such as most of /bin and much of /usr/bin),
most of the program gets loaded very soon anyway, because the current
dynamic loading scheme (glibc2.1.3, ld-linux.so.2) touches so many pages.
For example, running /bin/date involves about 850 symbol lookups.
Yes, eight hundred and fifty. See for yourself:
setenv LD_DEBUG symbols; /bin/date; unsetenv LD_DEBUG
Except for a few cases such as /bin/bash and a text editor or two, etc.,
the average actual benefit of sharing disk pages of programs at exec() is small.
So, if running a compressed executable involves just half as many disk
accesses and/or transfers, then in many cases compression can result
in an efficiency gain (less wall clock delay at invocation, and/or
more exec() per day).
--
John Reiser, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John McKown)
Subject: Re: Writing in files
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:11:37 -0500
On Tue, 16 May 2000 10:19:36 -0500, Aurelie Fonteny
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[>Hi all!
[>Here is my problem : in user space, it is very easy to write data into files
[>just by including the stdio.h library and calling fopen(), fwrite() and
[>fclose().
[>I'm right now writing device drivers, and would need to write data into a
[>file inside of my device driver so as to be able to debug those. It seems
[>like I can't use the same operations in the kernel space. Does anyone know
[>about a quick way to do that operation inside of the kernel or how to do it?
[>Does anyone also know where I could find the documentation on how to do it
[>or an example?
[>Thanks
Instead of trying to write directly from your device driver, why not use the
printk() function? I think something like:
printk(KERN_INFO "Debugging message.");
This will log to the syslog daemon and you can control which file it is logged
to or even if it is logged.
Just a thought,
John
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Development-System Digest
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