Linux-Development-Sys Digest #255, Volume #8 Fri, 3 Nov 00 22:13:09 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux GUI development (Mike Dowling)
Re: Linux GUI development (Maciej Golebiewski)
Re: Linux GUI development (Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux GUI development (Tux)
Re: Linux GUI development (Kaz Kylheku)
Re: Disk Replication (bootable) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Help on system call to get MAC address (Michel Dagenais)
Re: starting netscape ("Jeremy C. Reed")
Re: Linux GUI development
Re: Linux GUI development (Kaz Kylheku)
Re: Linux GUI development
Re: Some samples on creating device drivers
Re: Linux GUI development (Dave Platt)
Embedded Systems Developer Needed ("Jo Parmer")
Whats an 'unresolved symbol' ? ("J.Smith")
Re: Whats an 'unresolved symbol' ? ("D. Stimits")
Max. bytes that can be read out of kernel ("Rob Morris")
Kernel Mismatch Right out of the Box (root)
Re: Linux GUI development ("Daniel Lenski")
Re: Kernel Mismatch Right out of the Box (Kaz Kylheku)
Re: Linux GUI development (Christopher Browne)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Dowling)
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Date: 3 Nov 2000 12:19:55 GMT
On Fri, 03 Nov 2000 09:53:09 +0100, Maciej Golebiewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>At least you're an expert in buzzwords.
I think I can tell a troll when I see one, and he is not a troll. He
was making a serious attempt to educate us!
Oh, dear!
Cheers,
Mike
--
My email address [EMAIL PROTECTED] above is a valid email
address. It is a mail alias. Once spammed, the alias is deleted, and
the integer 'N' incremented. Currently, mike[34,35] are valid. If
email to mikeN bounces, try mikeN+1.
------------------------------
From: Maciej Golebiewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 14:01:37 +0100
Mike Dowling wrote:
>
> On Fri, 03 Nov 2000 09:53:09 +0100, Maciej Golebiewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >At least you're an expert in buzzwords.
>
> I think I can tell a troll when I see one, and he is not a troll. He
> was making a serious attempt to educate us!
I agree, but I'm less afraid of trolls than of serious guys on a mission :)
But still, his last paragraph was a masterpiece of buzzword literature :)
Maciej
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 13:45:51 GMT
In our last episode (Fri, 03 Nov 2000 14:01:37 +0100),
the artist formerly known as Maciej Golebiewski said:
>Mike Dowling wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 03 Nov 2000 09:53:09 +0100, Maciej Golebiewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >At least you're an expert in buzzwords.
>>
>> I think I can tell a troll when I see one, and he is not a troll. He
>> was making a serious attempt to educate us!
>
>I agree, but I'm less afraid of trolls than of serious guys on a mission :)
>
>But still, his last paragraph was a masterpiece of buzzword literature :)
A "serious guy on a mission" who has not clearly offered to _write code_
isn't likely to have any actual impact on anything.
He may be a master of buzzwords, but unless he's rather more a master
of "motivational skills" than appears to be the case, nobody is likely
to actually do what he is suggesting...
I rather like Alex Viro's response to his suggestion that assembly
language be used to make the kernel more efficient, namely that he
should look into C compilers and see what they do...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
"Feel free to contribute build files. Or work on your motivational
skills, and maybe someone somewhere will write them for you..."
-- "Fredrik Lundh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: Tux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 16:32:53 +0100
First: You can't make a windows out of a linux. Where to put the
crash-timer? Where from would you take all the mistakes? ;-)
Second: Without PnP, it took me 5 minutes to configure my hardware yb
just setting some jumpers and telling the os how they are set. Since
we've got PnP (Plug'n'Pray), I sometimes have to try at least an hour to
install sound, isdn and network. PnP lacks the switch for turning it of
- so I won't say, it's nearly perfect.
Tux
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku)
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 17:40:20 GMT
On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:42:28 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>When technology is taken a look at from a broad viewpoint
>and from a historical perspective, there are patterns
>that must be recognized as having survival characteristics.
Stop trolling the newsgroup with your bullshit!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Disk Replication (bootable)
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 18:58:37 -0000
On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:45:25 GMT Tom J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| *1. the disks are different geometries (I misled you with an allusion to
| something I did on LynxOS on magneto-optical media 5 years ago).
| They are both hard drives but later I may try to build cd roms.
| The booting drive is IDE primary master. I put the drive to be copied to as
| secondary IDE master.
Copying hard drives and copying CDROMs should be treated as different
projects. The CDROMs you can copy sector by sector from another CDROM.
CDROMs are linear.
| *2. Learn to partition the disk with sfdisk and cfdisk and do it
| (a boot area, a swap area and the rest for files.).
Whatever works for you.
| *3. make file systems on the two file system areas:
| mkfs -V -text2 -c /dev/hdc3 and hdc1
|
| *3.5 mount /dev/hdc3 /mnt/hd2
|
| *4. cpio --pass-through /mnt/hd2 < files.txt
| The files.txt has everything in it except proc/*, dev/* and /mnt/hd2/ .
| It turns out since the drive has only 512 cylinders I don't have to have a
| boot partition, but anyway.
If you make the partitions themselves exactly the same size (and this may
work, too, even if they increase in size) you should be able to copy most
filesystems on a sector by sector basis ONE PARTITION AT A TIME even though
the geometry is different. Filesystems like ext2 don't concern themselves
with device geometry. I can't say the same for FAT filesystems, though.
| 5. I am trying to make device nodes with MAKEDEV by
| cp /dev/MAKEDEV /mnt/hd2/dev/
| cd /mnt/hd2/dev/ ; ./MAKEDEV
| but this doesn't work. I was assuming that I can't just copy device
| nodes. Maybe I can.
If you are going to copy file by file, I've found cpio to be troublesome.
Use tar or cp. Or use sector by sector partition at a time.
| 6. So what if I edit /etc/lilo.conf
| to add
|
| image=/mnt/hd2/vmlinuz
| label=linux
| read-only
| root=/mnt/hd2/dev/hda3
| I mean, then the boot block will point to the wrong disk drives.
| I want to be able to move the new disk drive to IDE primary master.
| How can I install a boot block on a drive mounted at /mnt/hd2 that
| it should boot from /vmlinuz?
Don't do the above. Instead, make a special lilo.conf called lilo2.conf
with this added:
disk=/dev/hdc
bios=0x80
just before the image sections. This tells LILO to map the sectors from
device /dev/hdc to BIOS device 0x80. Now change the boot= parameter to
name /dev/hdc instead of /dev/hda. Copy this to /mnt/hd2/etc/lilo2.conf.
Make sure /mnt/hd2/etc/lilo.conf is already present but has boot= naming
the usual /dev/hda and it doesn't need the disk= paramtere (though it
won't hurt).
Once everything is copied and edited run lilo like this:
lilo -r /mnt/hd2 -C /etc/lilo2.conf
It will chroot() to /mnt/hd2 and see only what's on the 2nd HD when
looking for /etc/lilo2.conf, when looking for sectors to be mapped from
the kernel and its map files, etc.
If you're paranoid that lilo just rewrote the MBR on hda instead of hdc,
then just run "lilo" (without any options) to build the LILO setup again
for the host system. But really, if all is done right, the host system
is OK. You can verify the host system didn't change by doing the following
command both before and after the above lilo command and see that the
checksum does not change:
dd if=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1 | md5sum
If it did change, you did something wrong, and need to do plain "lilo"
again to restore bootability of the host system.
| I don't feel confident about using dd because how can the inodes from one
| drive be right for a different geometry drive?
Filesystems like ext2 use block (not sector) offsets linearly and don't care
about device geomtry.
| How can the boot information be right?
Geometry does matter here, since the LILO boot code runs in real mode and
uses BIOS services to read in map blocks and the kernel. But this will be
taken care of when you run "lilo -r /mnt/hd2 -C /etc/lilo2.conf" above.
| Should we just plan to copy identical geometry drives? I don't think that we
| can do that in our situation of rehabilitating old dos equipment into linux
| systems.
If you do have identical drives, then yes you can copy sector by sector
for the whole device.
One more WARNING:
Do NOT copy from the host system. Instead copy from a "third party" system.
The reason is, the host system's filesystems are already mounted and in an
inconsistent state on the disk. While fsck usually fixes this, this should
NOT be a regular practice.
One way to do this is to build the Linux system you want to have cloned on
a spare HD on some other machine. Put that HD in the copying machine as
/dev/hdc. Now do sector copying of the partitions FROM /dev/hdc TO files
stored on /dev/hda somewhere. Obviously /dev/hda has to have plenty of
space. You can also compress the files as you copy them using "gzip -1"
(-1 is faster than -9, but use -9 only if you are tight on space). If by
chance the files will be larger than 2 gig, you'll have to split them
using the "split" command. See "man split". The "cat" command can put
them back together again.
--
| Phil Howard - KA9WGN | My current websites: linuxhomepage.com, ham.org
| phil (at) ipal.net +----------------------------------------------------
| Dallas - Texas - USA | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Help on system call to get MAC address
From: Michel Dagenais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 14:49:49 GMT
> I am trying to write an app that will get the
> ethernet MAC addresses for all the machines
> attached to a LAN, and I am wondering if
> there is a system call that will do it.
When tcp/ip wants to send a packet over Ethernet, it needs to get the
MAC address of the corresponding host. It sends an ARP broadcast packet
and the machine with that IP answers with a packet which contains the
MAC address. You need to fetch this information from the tcp/ip stack
of the kernel. /proc/net/arp should be a good place to look at.
------------------------------
From: "Jeremy C. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: starting netscape
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 12:50:36 -0800
Christos,
On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Christos Karayiannis wrote:
> I am trying to use Netscape Communicator and the resolution of the images is
> very low. The errors I get refer to the -visual parameter of netscape with
> the GrayScale and some other categories of color. But using that the problem
> slightly change. Also the minimaze and close buttons of the windows in my X
> window enviroment rarely work. Could I have some recommentation please?
Your message really ha snothing to do with this newsgroup. To find the
answer to your Netscape question, you may want to look at an appropriate X
or general users/questions mailing list for your OS. For your window
environment question, you should seek the advice from the mailing list for
your particular window manager.
When you ask questions: make sure you are posting to the appropriate
forum; search the web and FAQs first; make sure you share details about
your system, its setup, the software and versions you are inquiring about,
and other information on how you have tried to research and solve the
problem.
Good luck,
Jeremy C. Reed
UNIX Admin Fax: 425-290-1751
IWBC ISP Services http://www.iwbc.net/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 20:58:47 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>First: You can't make a windows out of a linux. Where to put the
>crash-timer?
/dev/random
--
http://www.spinics.net/linux
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku)
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 20:54:57 GMT
On Fri, 03 Nov 2000 20:58:47 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>First: You can't make a windows out of a linux. Where to put the
>>crash-timer?
>
>/dev/random
Actually, what you need is a signal processing module that listens to the sound
card's input and brings down the system when it hears what sounds like a
sneeze. ;)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 21:36:10 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Kaz Kylheku <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>First: You can't make a windows out of a linux. Where to put the
>>>crash-timer?
>>/dev/random
>Actually, what you need is a signal processing module that listens to the sound
>card's input and brings down the system when it hears what sounds like a
>sneeze. ;)
I like that one. ;)
--
http://www.spinics.net/linux
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Some samples on creating device drivers
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 21:37:49 -0000
In article <8tsd3a$7el$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Vladimir Libershteyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm relatively new in a Linux world.
>Recently, I've been porting some Tru64 drivers to Linux. I made it work, but
>I'd prefer to look at some samples for existing drivers.
>Could you, please point me to some sites that might have this information?
A good start is /usr/src/linux/drivers. You can also find
quite a few around the web.
--
http://www.spinics.net/linux
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:00:40 -0000
>>>>First: You can't make a windows out of a linux. Where to put the
>>>>crash-timer?
>
>>>/dev/random
>
>>Actually, what you need is a signal processing module that listens to the sound
>>card's input and brings down the system when it hears what sounds like a
>>sneeze. ;)
>
>I like that one. ;)
Actually, you need somewhat more signal processing power than that.
You need a module to listen to the voices in the room, run a "stress
detector" algorithm, and analyze the user's typing speed and pattern.
You can also monitor the use of the "Save" menu items.
With this information, you can implement a pretty effective "panic
detector", and thus crash the system only when the user is under
deadline pressure, rushed, stressed out, and hasn't saved his/her work
for the last hour or so.
If you're gonna emulate, emulate accurately - take Murphy into account!
--
Dave Platt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior/
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
------------------------------
From: "Jo Parmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Embedded Systems Developer Needed
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 16:22:15 -0600
Hi,
My name is Jo Parmer and I am with Pedley-Richard and Associates, a
technical recruiting firm in Austin, TX. We are helping a client to find an
Embedded Systems Developer for the Southern California area. If anyone
might have an interest in a new opportunity in CA, please feel free to
contact me directly. This company offers relo, great compensation, stocks,
and a dynamic work environment. If you would like to see a job description,
please go to our website at www.pedley-richard.com Thank you for any help
and for your time.
Regards,
Jo Parmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
512-418-3253 v
512-418-8851 f
www.pedley-richard.com
------------------------------
From: "J.Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Whats an 'unresolved symbol' ?
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:24:33 +0100
During my adventures with linux, I occasionally have seen the error message:
'unresolved symbol in /dir/filename.o'. I have seen this sometimes after
compiling modules, and sometimes in the XFree86 v4.01 log files. I was just
wondering what this error message exactly means?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 15:32:55 -0700
From: "D. Stimits" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Whats an 'unresolved symbol' ?
"J.Smith" wrote:
>
> During my adventures with linux, I occasionally have seen the error message:
> 'unresolved symbol in /dir/filename.o'. I have seen this sometimes after
> compiling modules, and sometimes in the XFree86 v4.01 log files. I was just
> wondering what this error message exactly means?
Some code is reusable, and not stored in the program that needs to use
it. For example, the code to output text to a terminal is in the C
library, and few people would want to write this hardware access code
for every program. So it is put in a library for general access, and it
is identified by its symbol. A program is compiled, and if it doesn't
have in its own code some required function (the symbol for it), it
looks elsewhere. Depending on when it looks for it (depending on what
you do, either during compile time or during run time), if it can't find
it, it will tell you it has a missing or unresolved symbol.
------------------------------
From: "Rob Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Max. bytes that can be read out of kernel
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 18:15:10 -0800
Hello,
I am writing a simple kernel loadable module that reads an array on the
kernel side. I have not been able find any specs. on how large the array
can be for a "one read - read operation" (i.e. i read the array all at once
with copy_to_user). The array is as follows:
unsigned int ArrayName[MaxSize];
What I need to know is how many bytes can be read out of the kernel at any
one instance of the read op for the device driver.
Thanks,
Rob Morris
------------------------------
From: root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat
Subject: Kernel Mismatch Right out of the Box
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 19:26:49 -0800
I just purchased RedHat 7 Professional Version ( $180!!!! ) I figured
I'd bite the bullet, not get the $30 or the $60 version.
Enough already. I install the damn thing and when I recompile my device
drivers from scratch, I get a
Kernel Mismatch warning error during installation. Saying the driver was
compiled for 2.2.16-22 and this kernel is 2.4.something.
I redefine UTS_RELEASE to be 2.2.16-22 for the hell of it, and my
drivers compiled and installed correctly. But they don't work.
Can someone tell me what the f I am doing incorrectly? During the
installation I happened to glance at the
kernel version and it was 2.2.16-22. Why does this version think it is
2.4?
Also, maybe I am no longer with the program, but why does everything on
RedHat point to BUY NOW? I can't get the support I want. I called up,
and after navigation through the phone system, the phone "mysteriously"
hung up on me after I selected tech support.
Is this what Linux has become? Is this how it is now? I really had my
hopes high on Linux but I can smell the
yearnings for corporate profit ahead. This will surely doom Linux, or
hopefully only RedHat.
-Joseph Virzi
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Lenski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 21:35:07 +0500
> When technology is taken a look at from a broad viewpoint and from a
> historical perspective, there are patterns that must be recognized as
> having survival characteristics.
>
> The following rule govern technology...
>
> All technology must make tasks more simple either by less effort or less
> time.
This sounds almost the the beginning of one of those spam messages where
they claim to have discovered some wondrous new money-making,
sex-enhancing, life-saving technology. :-) And the message continues ...
"That's why I'd like to tell you about the new XP1000 product from Omega
Future Devices, a small company founded by a group of Arizona
entrepreneurs in 1991. This revolutionary new device is one of the
greatest technological breakthroughs of our time. Order your information
kit NOW for only $20!"
--
Daniel Lenski
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"If we couldn't laugh at things that didn't make sense,
we couldn't react to a lot of the world around us."
--Calvin and Hobbes
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku)
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Kernel Mismatch Right out of the Box
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 02:36:37 GMT
On Fri, 03 Nov 2000 19:26:49 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Is this what Linux has become? Is this how it is now? I really had my
>hopes high on Linux but I can smell the
>yearnings for corporate profit ahead. This will surely doom Linux, or
>hopefully only RedHat.
comp.os.linux.development.system is not a RedHat support group. You should
know that no RedHat release is any good until version .2 . If you want
a solid RedHat 7, wait until 7.2 comes out. The pattern is well established
by 4.2, 5.2, 6.2.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Linux GUI development
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:07:19 GMT
In our last episode (Fri, 03 Nov 2000 20:54:57 GMT),
the artist formerly known as Kaz Kylheku said:
>On Fri, 03 Nov 2000 20:58:47 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>First: You can't make a windows out of a linux. Where to put the
>>>crash-timer?
>>
>>/dev/random
>
>Actually, what you need is a signal processing module that listens to the sound
>card's input and brings down the system when it hears what sounds like a
>sneeze. ;)
[Hmmm... Rummaging around in .signature collection...]
"Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer.
Press any key to reboot." --- Simon Oke in the scary devil monastery
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@" "hex.net")
<http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/>
Jumping off a cliff doesn't kill you! It's only when you hit the
ground...
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Development-System Digest
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