Hi,
These IDE-CLI arguments seem pointless to me. The choice of a
tool depends on lots of factors like area of application, capabilities
of the tool, type of problem, personal taste etc. etc. Based on these
each tool has it's own market/target audience - no single tool is
suitable for all.
This thread seems like an argument between two different problem domains
- Systems Programming vs App programming. A tool used in one domain
may not make sense in another domain. I will definitely not use an IDE
for developing a driver. On the other hand I will use an IDE to develop
Motif/GTK apps.
I fact I am developing a GTK app using tools like Emacs, Vim, gdb, ddd &
Glade. When I learned GTK I used to code all my programs by hand. Then
what the hell do I use Glade for now ? Simple, I am into serious
development now with fast approaching deadlines. I simply don't have
the bandwidth to waste writing GUI code and tinkering with them to make
the screen look good. I use Glade to generate all the GUI screen code and
spend more time on proper design & coding of the Application Logic -
Glade is out of the scene here.
The world is inhabited by lots of different types of people from Casual
Users to Gurus and the computer is accessible to all. Any person in this
wide range may want customised tools for their own purpose.
Khader for example might want to add some new functionality to ALSA - it
will be crazy to use an IDE for this purpose. But at the other end of the
scale the owner of a Music Store may want a Inventory/Sales App. He can
buy an off-the-shelf app but they do not meet his requirements, he can
hire a consultant but his finances are tight. He may know enough about
computer programming to try and write his own App. But do you expect him
to learn GTK/Motif/Win32 or even Assembly for this purpose ?
When you want to get a job done, you have to use the best tool available
that suits the job and you and is viable under the circumstances.
To make a hole in a wooden block, someone might use a drill, someone else
might need to use a hammer & blunt nail, a karate expert might even
conceivably use his bare fingers !! ;)
Regards,
Moinak.
>
> Well, even I had been programming in Assembly, C(both IDE and
> commandline) etc. for a while now , and I understand how you feel. I
> even have written small anti-virii programs in assembly using the old
> MSDos debug(NO, writing directly in Op codes was never up my alley).
>
> But I strongly disagree to the notion that "real" programming is only
> when you use non-IDE interfaces. It is like people about two decades ago
> saying punch-cards programming or op-code programming is better than
> keyboard or C programming respectively. I even know some people in those
> ages sneering at C, and calling it a tool for non-programmers(compared
> to their assembly language!). Change is inevitable, and when change
> brings about greater ease and functionality and productivity, it should
> be welcomed. I have never used KDevelop(to be honest, i haven't done
> much production work on the linux platform), but I believe that
> flexibility in IDE's is only a matter of your implementation. If
> KDevelop doesn't give you that flexibility, it is a limitation of it's
> functionality, not a limitation of the concept of IDE itself.
>
> Non-IDE development environments has got many passionate followers. But
> even more than them are people who felt such environments daunting. Who
> knows how many potential "Bill Joys" we have lost that way!
>
> The typical reaction of these followers has been to keep things that
> way(knowledge is power). I rather feel that if the objective is to bring
> people and computers(in general, not just Linux) together, these
> environments(IDE et al) should get as much support from the non-IDE
> types.
>
> - Sandip
>
> P.S. All flames directed to /dev/null
>
> > >Speaking frankly, I don't call programming *progamming* when someone
> > >uses tools like VB, Visual Studio. Those things are for people who
> > >don't know how to program and Windows is a good platform for VB and
> > >Visual Studio. Frankly speaking I don't like the Idea of even
> > >Kdevelop. Simply love programming with vi and emacs. Real programmers
> > >don't use IDE's. Here at our office, I have seen who people use things
> > >like WInVI, gnumake and gcc to program in Windows. And that is the best
> > >way !!
> >
> > Yes I fully agree to this.
> > When I do assembly level programming I do not use any assembler also.
> > I write the byte code directly looking at the op codes.
> > It gives me an immense satisfaction and full control over the program.
> > The satisfaction one gets from debugging can not be explained in words.
> >
> > I never considered VB as programming platform ( even though I did lots of
> > work in VB when linux was not around me ).
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Sandip Bhattacharya
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Hope 16 Web Solutions
> ------------------------------
> "Education is what you learn after you have forgotten everything you
> learned in school."
> - Albert Einstein
>
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LI is all for free speech, but this list was created for a purpose --
to help popularise Linux in India. If your messages are counterproductive
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