> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Guennadi
> Liakhovetski<g.liakhovet...@gmx.de> wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday 12 June 2009 14:59:03 Guennadi Liakhovetski wrote:
>>> > On Fri, 12 Jun 2009, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > > 1. it is very unusual that the board designer has to mandate what
>>> signal
>>> > > > polarity has to be used - only when there's additional logic
>>> between the
>>> > > > capture device and the host. So, we shouldn't overload all boards
>>> with
>>> > > > this information. Board-code authors will be grateful to us!
>>> > >
>>> > > I talked to my colleague who actually designs boards like that
>>> about what
>>> > > he would prefer. His opinion is that he wants to set this himself,
>>> rather
>>> > > than leave it as the result of a software negotiation. It
>>> simplifies
>>> > > verification and debugging the hardware, and in addition there may
>>> be
>>> > > cases where subtle timing differences between e.g. sampling on a
>>> falling
>>> > > edge vs rising edge can actually become an important factor,
>>> particularly
>>> > > on high frequencies.
>
> Let me guess, your coworker is a hardware designer? Letting hardware
> people do hardware design is usually a good idea, but I'm yet to see
> good software written by hardware people. =)
I agree. That's why I'm doing the software part :-)
>>> > I'd say this is different. You're talking about cases where you
>>> _want_ to
>>> > be able to configure it explicitly, I am saying you do not have to
>>> _force_
>>> > all to do this. Now, this selection only makes sense if both are
>>> > configurable, right? In this case, e.g., pxa270 driver does support
>>> > platform-specified preference. So, if both the host and the client
>>> can
>>> > configure either polarity in the software you _can_ still specify the
>>> > preferred one in platform data and it will be used.
>>> >
>>> > I think, the ability to specify inverters and the preferred polarity
>>> > should cover all possible cases.
>>>
>>> In my opinion you should always want to set this explicitly. This is
>>> not
>>> something you want to leave to chance. Say you autoconfigure this. Now
>>> someone either changes the autoconf algorithm, or a previously
>>> undocumented
>>> register was discovered for the i2c device and it can suddenly
>>> configure the
>>> polarity of some signal that was previously thought to be fixed, or
>>> something
>>> else happens causing a different polarity to be negotiated.
>>
>> TBH, the argumentation like "someone changes the autoconf algorithm" or
>> "previously undocumented register is discovered" doesn't convince me. In
>> any case, I am adding authors, maintainers and major contributors to
>> various soc-camera host drivers to CC and asking them to express their
>> opinion on this matter. I will not add anything else here to avoid any
>> "unfair competition":-) they will have to go a couple emails back in
>> this
>> thread to better understand what is being discussed here.
>
> I think automatic negotiation is a good thing if it is implemented
> correctly.
>
> Actually, i think modelling software after hardware is a good thing
> and from that perspective the soc_camera was (and still is) a very
> good fit for our on-chip SoC. Apart from host/sensor separation, the
> main benefits in my mind are autonegotiation and separate
> configuration for camera sensor, capture interface and board.
>
> I don't mind doing the same outside soc_camera, and I agree with Hans
> that in some cases it's nice to hard code and skip the "magic"
> negotiation. I'm however pretty sure the soc_camera allows hard coding
> though, so in that case you get the best of two worlds.
It is my strong opinion that while autonegotiation is easy to use, it is
not a wise choice to make. Filling in a single struct with the bus
settings to use for each board-subdev combination (usually there is only
one) is simple, straight-forward and unambiguous. And I really don't see
why that should take much time at all. And I consider it a very good point
that the programmer is forced to think about this for a bit.
Regards,
Hans
--
Hans Verkuil - video4linux developer - sponsored by TANDBERG
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