Linux-Misc Digest #727, Volume #19 Sat, 3 Apr 99 18:13:08 EST
Contents:
Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0 (Alexander Viro)
Re: About Redhat Distribution (Gerald Willmann)
Re: About Redhat Distribution (Christopher B. Browne)
Re: Why Linux still isn't my standard boot-up OS, or what are the Linux-equivalents
for these Windoze programs? (David M. Cook)
Re: Binary compatibility (David H. Brown)
Re: bz2 compression (William Park)
Re: Help ! How do I mount audio cdroms ? (Gerald Willmann)
Re: Why Linux still isn't my standard boot-up OS, or what are the (Ewan Dunbar)
Re: Proprietary Linux -- End Of Open Source Software! (Christopher B. Browne)
Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why Linux still isn't my standard boot-up OS, or what are the (Ewan Dunbar)
Re: Binary compatibility ("David Z. Maze")
Downloading ftp files ("Henry Ostrowski")
Re: Why Linux still isn't my standard boot-up OS, or what are the
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
SIOCSIFFLAGS ("Hans van Epen")
Re: About Redhat Distribution (Pankil Richards)
UDMA-Generic patch (Mladen Gavrilovic)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Viro)
Crossposted-To:
linux.redhat.misc,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0
Date: 3 Apr 1999 14:44:42 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
James Goldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Alexander Viro wrote:
>> IMHO it's RH *trouble*. Bad luck, if you prefer such term. Discussing
>> what *might* happen is pretty much pointless - RH made a kind of press
>> that attracted an odd crowd of gimme-Windows-not-from-Evil-Empire
>> lusers.
>
>So what's wrong with that? Getting away from Bills Happy Point'n'Drool
>Playgroud is exactly what got me started on Linux. Now that I've got it
>all set up and I have a clue how to use it, I actually have come to love
>it for its features and could no longer care less about Microshaft. Or
>whether anybody else switches, for that matter.
Well, let me put it that way: it's one thing if <foo> is not satisfied
with the way <bar> works and wants to look what else is out there. Pretty
reasonable. It's a different thing if <foo> doesn't like an attitude of
<bar>'s authors and wants to find somebody else who would give a clone
of <bar> but wouldn't be such an asshole. May be reasonable too (ahem...
there is one particular MTA...). And it's *totally* different thing if <foo>
tries to con/force/whine everybody into turning <baz> into <bar> clone, since
he's OK with <bar>, can't stand anything else and is on holy crusade against
authors of <bar>.
>> It's about luserness. Quite a different thing. RH got a lot of newbies
>> (probably more than other distributions, but I suspect that nobody has
>> numbers) *plus* almost all lusers. The thing being, lusers are much
>> more vocal...
>
>True, but how do you distinguish the two? For me, a Linux luser is one
>who expects Linux to be exactly like windows and gets really annoyed
Oh, that's just one kind. Luser... well, it's a mental disorder.
Pathological fear of learning, extremely short attention span when it
comes to anything even remotely computer-related; always blaming somebody
else ("you've changed something and it's broken now"); belief that computers
are black magic things; suspension of common sense ("It doesn't print! Ummm?
What does it say? Ehhh... It says "out of paper"... What? Insert paper? Why is
it needed?!?"); belief that somebody can fix the problem by pure voodoo with
*no* specific information about the problem (they *always* start from "it is
broken" or something equally meaningless, e.g. "the net is sloooow" or, better
yet, "Internet is down" (sure... WWIII began, didn't ya know?)); etc.
They are sick. And I mean medical sense of the word. It's very common
disease. Many things are responsible for spreading this disease, MS not the
last of those things. Add PC Sick, National Shitquirer and other magazines of
the same level. Add cyberpunk authors. Add ST (they did helluva lot wrt.
suspension of common sense when it comes to any technology). Add MS brethren
a-la Apple (they've started even before MS). Add the fact that luserness is
contagious (there is some kind of immune system, but one has to develop it
in the first hand)...
>when it isn't. But who's fault is it that the Linux world is rapidly
>filling up with this ilk? I'll tell you who: Microsoft and general
>ignorance.
See above.
>People have been stuck with DOS/Win31/95/98/NT/CE/2000 for so long they
>can't imagine anything else. That's M$'s influence. And now there's this
>big ol' bandwagon again. Linux has become a buzzword.
Yes. And there is a type that I would call professional advocates.
Completely dishonest, absolutely ignorant, want to fight for something, no
matter what. Most vocal type. BTW, many of them are ex-Mac/ex-Amiga/ex-OS/2
advocates - check DejaNews and you'll see.
>I consider this rather bizarre, in a way. I mean, if you've been
>speaking only English all your life and you decide to learn Norwegian or
>something, you'd be an idiot to expect it to be the same, wouldn't you?
>Yet so many people think in just that way about operating systems.
>That's the ignorance part.
<chuckle> See stories about US tourists *completely* amazed by the
fact that people in <foo> speak on a different language. "What? They don't
speak English? Boy, whadda bunch of retards!". Especially funny when <foo>
being UK...
>For me, switching to Linux was exactly what I expected. I mean, I *knew*
>it would be different in the same way learning DOS was a pain when my
>experience up to that time was Commodore64 (don't laugh - I loved that
>machine!). So I knew I'd have to read a lot to get good.
Hear, hear...
--
"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.
------------------------------
From: Gerald Willmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: About Redhat Distribution
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:47:49 -0800
On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, =A7=F5=A4@=A4@ wrote:
> After you install RedHat, is it a must that rpm should be use to install =
all
> other software?
a must that should? - the answer is no=20
Gerald
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Subject: Re: About Redhat Distribution
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 18:06:59 GMT
On Sun, 4 Apr 1999 01:14:12 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
>After you install RedHat, is it a must that rpm should be use to
>install all other software?
Not forcibly.
- If you want to keep things manageable using RPM so that packages are
readily upgraded, it is somewhat preferable to install anything on
/usr and /opt using RPM.
- It is generally a good idea to install things that you *want* to
manage yourself in /usr/local; Red Hat (and probably other
distributions that use RPM) don't produce packages that are installed
in /usr/local.
The strategy I'd suggest is thus to, whenever possible, use RPMs to
automagically manage things going on in /usr, and put things that are
"hacked with" on /usr/local. This provides reasonable flexibility (as
you can do whatever you like in /usr/local) whilst taking advantage of
what management of software you get from RPM.
You can, of course, do whatever you like; if you don't care to use
RPMs to upgrade things later, it is reasonable to stick things where
ever you like. That of course reduces the value of having a package
manager...
Note that this general approach is useful with *any* UNIX-like system;
if you are going to have "managed stuff" and "unmanaged stuff," it is
nice to keep them carefully separated so that they, and any management
processes, don't trample on one another.
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
Subject: Re: Why Linux still isn't my standard boot-up OS, or what are the
Linux-equivalents for these Windoze programs?
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 18:23:38 GMT
On Thu, 01 Apr 1999 02:34:30 -0500, Harry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Out of interest, as you sound like you use emacs a lot, what do you
>use it for?
Editing C, C++, Java, Python, Scheme, LaTeX, SGML, and HTML, and the
occaisonal game of tetris. I use JED for everything else.
Dave Cook
--
No Linux for you!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David H. Brown)
Subject: Re: Binary compatibility
Date: 3 Apr 99 19:52:22 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michiel Perdeck wrote:
>To what extend are the different Linux distributions binary compatible
>meaning that applications can be exchanged as-is, without
>recompilation?
>I am first of all just curious, but also I believe that the lack of
>binary compatibility is the MAJOR obstacle to the broad acceptance of
>Linux (in fact, of Unix in general) as an alternative to Micro$oft.
>Possible answers are:
>1. Not at all; you must recompile each time.
>2. Software written for the same kernel version are compatible.
>3. Other answer, please explain.
>
IMHO, great question! But one with many more possible answers.
Some answers from this layman:
If the binary is statically-linked, should be no problem (assuming
the kernel supports things the application does).
Assuming dynamic-linking, if the libraries used by the application
are all at the appropriate level, and the kernel supports the
features requested by the app, still okay. Otherwise, annoying error
messages "can't find libxxx.so.xxx" result.
I'm still running libc5, but glibc "runtime support" is also installed,
so I haven't had any apps fail due to C library problems.
I've run into a couple of cases (eg, lynx), which wanted a later
level library, and I got away with creating a link named with the
the later version, but linking to the earlier version. I'm sure that
something becomes broken when I do that, but so far, it hasn't bitten
me.
--
Dave Brown Austin, TX
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Park)
Subject: Re: bz2 compression
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:24:39 GMT
Richard Lindgren ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Hi!
: I downloaded the new linux-2.2.2 and I saw that it was compressed using
: .bz2 compression. Have never heard about it before and gunzip didn't
: make the uncompressing. What program should I use and where do I find
: it. The file header says "BZh91AY&SY"
: Thanx
*.bz2 files are compressed using bzip2 program.
--
------------------------------
From: Gerald Willmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help ! How do I mount audio cdroms ?
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:58:13 -0800
On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Eightfold=AE wrote:
> I'm running the KDE desktop. There is a "CD Player" . I've read
> the docs and "HOW-TOs" and can't find anything about mounting and
> playing audio cdroms.....
you don't need to mount audio cdroms - just play the raw cd. If it doesn't
work check that /dev/cdrom points to /dev/hd? or /dev/scd0 and that you as
a mere user have permission to use the cdrom device. Also try other=20
cdplayers (xplaycd, xcdplayer, workman, xmcd, cdplay, cdp ...).
Gerald =
=20
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat.misc
From: Ewan Dunbar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Linux still isn't my standard boot-up OS, or what are the
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:03:51 -0500
On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Steve Wolfe wrote:
> Christopher wrote:
> > Matthias Warkus wrote:
> > > It was the 2 Apr 1999 15:24:18 -0500...
> > > ..and Tom Betz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > You can't do something as simple
> > > > as paste text copied from an xterm session into, say, Netscape.
Actually, there is, and it's much simpler than in Windows:
select the text with the first button, then press the third button to
paste.
> Silly question, but how do I emulate 3 buttons with a two button mouse?
You have to have Emulate3Buttons on in your /etc/XF86Config file.
/usr/X11R6/bin/xf86config should have done this for you if you
selected it when you ran it. Or whatever program helped you
generate this file. It *may* be set up this way, if so, press both buttons
to use the third button. If not, edit the config file, or, if you don't
want to, run the configurator program again. The problem with the latter
option to be used in the case of Emulate3Buttons not being enabled is that
you may not know how it was configured before.
================================================
Ewan Dunbar
================================================
Visit Preston Manning: Action Hero at
http://earl.thedunbars.com/pmah/index.html
================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Proprietary Linux -- End Of Open Source Software!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 20:02:09 GMT
On Sat, 03 Apr 1999 18:35:25 GMT, Juergen Heinzl
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
>Well, the best one I saw was about papers found in the Vatican that
>prove 2000 is not a leapyear ...
That's a better idea than most; proposing that there's some "schism"
that we didn't know about is a better prank than, really, *any* of the
AFJ's that I saw this year.
The RFC on Y10K was not bad; one could *almost* take it seriously.
Unfortunately, anyone can write something that will suck in some
rubes; it's not a successful AFJ unless it can fool some *skeptical*
people.
*ANY* claim about Microsoft on April 1st is likely to be ignored
The *best* sort of AFJ in that regard would be to make a *true*
announcement about something, and have people disbelieve *the truth.*
Remember the episode of M*A*S*H where they reminisce about the "good
'ol days" of Trapper John pranks, and B.J. takes up the challenge? BJ
doesn't actually pull a single prank; others pull pranks on
themselves, blaming horrible things on him until Hawkeye becomes
*immensely* paranoid.
Getting Hawkeye to build a barbed-wire hideout, and keeping him up all
night sitting beside machine gun (Hawkeye? Machine gun?!?), was the
whole joke.
The one thing I'm not certain about is jwz's announcement that he has
resigned from AOL. <http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html> The
material is believable; the facts are generally true. Did he really
resign?
(Next question: What's he doing next, if he did?)
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
linux.redhat.misc,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:06:45 -0600
Jeremy Crabtree wrote:
> John Thompson allegedly wrote:
> >Jeremy Crabtree wrote:
> >>
> >> (Sorry, I just couldn't resist...;)
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] allegedly wrote:
> >> [SNIP]
> >>
> >> >Are you saying the the X windowing system is a worthless
> >> >piece of software, because you can use linux with virtual consoles only?
> >>
> >> YEAH! X is WORTHLESS for /exactly/ that reason! Heck, I even have
> >> root-menus on my consoles! ;P
> >>
> >> (BTW, I really do have root-menus on my consoles ;)
> >
> >So?
> >
> >I have *root beer* on my console, but I'm not bragging about
> >it; I'm looking for a towel.
>
> Hrm...got root.beer stuck on tty* huh? Better check in
> /pub/linen_closet and, failing that, /pub/laundry/clean
> for towels.tgz
>
> BTW, don't worry about the compression, it will expand
> itself as it consumes the root.beer
Boy, this is the exact reason I don't bring anything other than
water into my office. I also keep a box of kleenex next to the
computer.
Rick
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat.misc
From: Ewan Dunbar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Linux still isn't my standard boot-up OS, or what are the
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:10:49 -0500
On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 'big name' companies, morons like Trident will stop emailing us
> the Windows drivers when we ask about Linux drivers. Yep, they
> did this 4 times in a row and every time I told them I *had* the
> Windows drivers and needed to either get Linux drivers or data
> necessary (like what is the dot clock, etc.) to create my own Linux
> drivers.
No, you don't need any driver. If X or SVGAlib or whatever you want to use
doesn't support it, you can't do much about it aside from using a generic
setup for that program.
================================================
Ewan Dunbar
================================================
Visit Preston Manning: Action Hero at
http://earl.thedunbars.com/pmah/index.html
================================================
------------------------------
From: "David Z. Maze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Binary compatibility
Date: 03 Apr 1999 17:26:37 -0500
Michiel Perdeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
MP> To what extend are the different Linux distributions binary compatible
MP> meaning that applications can be exchanged as-is, without
MP> recompilation?
MP> Possible answers are:
MP> 1. Not at all; you must recompile each time.
MP> 2. Software written for the same kernel version are compatible.
MP> 3. Other answer, please explain.
The kernel version is, in general, irrelevant. The library versions
are much more relevant. The most important library is the C library,
libc.so.
-- Programs built with libc.so.4 (old "a.out" binaries) probably won't
run on any modern Linux distribution. My current Debian install
doesn't have a.out binary support and doesn't have any a.out
libraries at all.
-- Programs built with libc.so.5 (ELF binaries with the Linux C
library) will *probably* run on every Linux install in use today.
It's conceivable that really old systems won't have ELF support,
but the a.out->ELF transition happened back when I started using
Linux (about 3-4 years ago).
-- Programs built with GNU libc 2.0 (ELF binaries linked to libc.so.6)
will run on most newer systems, including Red Hat 5.x and Debian
2.x. Really new Slackware boxes might also be able to handle them.
-- Programs built with GNU libc 2.1 (ELF binaries linked to libc.so.6)
probably won't run on anything. Only the current Debian "unstable"
branch uses this library AFAIK.
You also need all of the supporting libraries, in addition to libc.
Usually this isn't as major a problem. But Red Hat 5 fails to do a
good job of supporting libc5 libraries on a libc6 system (Debian is
*much* better here), with the result being random segfaults when both
versions of libraries are installed.
There are also potential problems with file locations; something
you're looking for might not be where you expect it on a different
system.
For maximal compatibility, I'd recommend building binaries on a
glibc-2.0 system (basically the stable branches of any major
distribution except Slackware). Then you can run on any system that
has any version of GNU libc 2.x, including Red Hat 5.x and Debian
2.x. Files need to be put somewhere, but there's not a whole lot you
can do beyond trying to comply with the FHS.
(Probably the best thing to do, if it's reasonable, is to distribute
your program under the GPL or some other DFSG-free license, and find
people you can convince that your program is useful that can properly
package it in various formats. Or, even better, build RPMs yourself,
and become a Debian developer and package your own software... :-)
--
David Maze [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://donut.mit.edu/dmaze/
"Hey, Doug, do you mind if I push the Emergency Booth Self-Destruct Button?"
"Oh, sure, Dave, whatever...you _do_ know what that does, right?"
------------------------------
From: "Henry Ostrowski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Downloading ftp files
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:20:57 +1000
Can anyone help me. I have been trying to download KDE and some other
programs from the internet. I have been told to right click on the directory
eg: < Stable > then click on < Save as link > then I get a screen asking
where to save it etc. When I go to retrieve the file I get a list the same
as the one I right clicked on at the web site and nothing happens???
What do I do from here ??
Thanks in advance
Henry
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: Why Linux still isn't my standard boot-up OS, or what are the
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:33:04 -0600
Ewan Dunbar wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 'big name' companies, morons like Trident will stop emailing us
> > the Windows drivers when we ask about Linux drivers. Yep, they
> > did this 4 times in a row and every time I told them I *had* the
> > Windows drivers and needed to either get Linux drivers or data
> > necessary (like what is the dot clock, etc.) to create my own Linux
> > drivers.
> No, you don't need any driver. If X or SVGAlib or whatever you want to use
> doesn't support it, you can't do much about it aside from using a generic
> setup for that program.
Interesting. I guess that makes sense now that I remember how a linux-savvy
friend set it up. Either way, I could never even get two words out of
Trident,
they just kept sending the windows drivers. There were no comments and
most files were unreadable. The only file which was readable, had no aparent
correlation to the data I needed for x86config.
Rick
------------------------------
From: "Hans van Epen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: SIOCSIFFLAGS
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:37:02 +0200
Can somebody tell me why I get the following message everytime I try to
start up my network with: /sbin/init.d/network start?
SIOCSIFFLAGS: resource temporarily unavailable.
What does it mean and what can I do about it?
I am new at this so please keep it simple.
Help is greatly appreciated for I fear I could go over to the dark
(microsoft) side again!
Hans.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Pankil Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: About Redhat Distribution
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 23:04:57 +0000
"���@�@" wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After you install RedHat, is it a must that rpm should be use to install all
> other software?
No.
------------------------------
From: Mladen Gavrilovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: UDMA-Generic patch
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 23:02:41 +0000
Hi all,
Does anyone know where I can get the UDMA-Generic patch?
The UDMA howto lists it as being at
http://www.altern.org/andrebalsa/linux/ but apparently
that site was shut down by the french government or something
over freedom of speech issues. Anyone know where I can
get the patch?
Regards,
Mladen
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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