Linux-Misc Digest #148, Volume #20 Tue, 11 May 99 06:13:08 EDT
Contents:
cdrecord thinks CD-writer is CD-ROM (Greg)
Pro-Unix vs anti-WinTel (was: Re: Is Unix a single user operating system?)
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Floppy won't mount (insomniac)
Re: Where is best location of swap partition on a disk? (Eric Lee Green)
Midnight Commander (Steve McClay)
lilo +10Gb (Miguel Lastra)
Re: floppy stays read only (Steffen Wagner)
KDE very slow ("mikerego")
Re: Help! Null modem and pppd ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Strip libc ("D. Vrabel")
Re: Bizarre memory problem (Jon Skeet)
Re: Linux and windows floppy drive problems (Nitin Mule)
Re: KDE very slow ("Prasanth Kumar")
Re: Problems with looking up hostnames after upgrade (Gambit32)
Re: Can't see more than 64.8MB of ram.... (Mark Tranchant)
Re: RedHat price... (Mark Tranchant)
Re: Boycott Intel on your own webpage (A Guy Called Tyketto)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (Andrew Carol)
Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really) (James Youngman)
Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really) (James Youngman)
Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really) (James Youngman)
Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really) (James Youngman)
Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really) (James Youngman)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522) (Ketil Z Malde)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg)
Subject: cdrecord thinks CD-writer is CD-ROM
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 21:03:45 -0500
When I try to write to my CD-writer with
'cdrecord -v speed=2 dev=5,0 cdimage.raw'
it fails to write because it thinks the
device is a CD-ROM. I've tried to boot with
the cd-writer turned off, then turning it
on after the boot completes but get the
same results. I'm using PPC Linux 4.1 which
is based upon Red Hat 5.0, with a Philips
CDD 2600 cd-writer. How can I write the
image to the CD-R?
Greg
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Pro-Unix vs anti-WinTel (was: Re: Is Unix a single user operating system?)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 22:31:59 GMT
Richard Caley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michael Maxwell (mm) writes:
: > The only thing I'd disagree with here is that, if a system is marketed
: > as a "single-user" system, then development will inevitably follow in
: > that direction -- optimizing the system for single-user, developing
: > single-user oriented applications, or whatever the case may be.
:
: Surely the point of a proper multi user machine is that it looks like a
: whole box of single user machines.
:
: A counter example to your argument would be Solaris, I don't see that it
: has become more single-user bound, yet Sun have been building workstations
: for a long time.
True, however Linux is pushing for the standard desktop market *far*
more then Sun ever has, and it shows.
Most of the Linux world seems to be pushing for a better
Windows/desktop replacement and is driven by a strong anti-WinTel
motive. Witness KDE developers openly stating that not only are
they in no way X or Unix programmers, they don't think they should
have to be. Every day Linux looks more and more like Windows/Mac
and less and less like Unix, for better or worse.
On the flip side *BSD is mostly pushing for a better Unix and could
really care less about the traditional WinTel/Mac desktop market.
*BSD isn't anti-WinTel, it's pro-Unix. There is a *big* difference
between the two both in the motive and the result.
Personally I think what Linux is doing is *great*; The world *needs*
a *viable* WinTel replacement/alternative. It just isn't what I
need. I need a better Unix, and so I use FreeBSD.
--
-Zenin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Yah, Emacs is a good OS, but I prefer FreeBSD.
------------------------------
From: insomniac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Floppy won't mount
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:55:41 GMT
Ed Young wrote:
>
> insomniac wrote:
> >
> > Ack, I don't know the problem here, it always worked fine. I looked on
> > /Deja/, but nothing.
> >
> > # mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
> > mount: /dev/fd0 is not a valid block device
> >
> > I see the led go on in the floppy, but I get the error *immediately*.
> > /etc/fstab hasn't changed at all since it's been working. Anybody know
> > what the problem could be?
>
> Has your /dev/fd0 definition been changed?
Nope
>
> Do you have a loose wire in your hardware?
I checked several times...
>
> Does A: work if you dual boot (assuming you can or are willing to do that)?
I don't run a dual boot, but when I put a disk in the drive and rebooted
it didn't look for a boot disk, or find the one in there, just went into
LILO.
>
> These checks may flush the culprit...
I think I'll check those wires again, only thing I can think of.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Eric Lee Green)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.sun.admin
Subject: Re: Where is best location of swap partition on a disk?
Date: 11 May 1999 02:34:43 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 09 May 1999 20:58:35 -0400, Michael Hucka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I was just reading the Linux partitioning mini-HowTo, and it says (in section
>3.3):
> o Newer disks use ZBR (zone bit recording). They have more sectors on the
> outer tracks. With a constant number of rpms, this yields a far greater
> performance on the outer tracks than on the inner ones. Put your swap on
> the fast tracks.
>
>is best? It seems like the first statement (put swap in the middle of the
>disk) would be better because it would minimize the average distance traveled
>by the disk-head mechanism when seeking from a random location to the swap
>area. Read/write speed may be faster on the outer tracks, but the heads have
Linux does disk head scheduling internally. I.e., read and write requests
are queued and scheduled so that the disk head moves steadily from inside
to outside then back to sector 0 again (it doesn't try to go backwards,
because the disk geometry reported by the BIOS does not in any way reflect
actual disk geometry so it has no way of knowing whether it's actually
making things go slower or not if it tries to go backwards).
Thus swap requests, like any disk requests, will get scheduled this way
and thus there will be no "additional" disk head movement required -- the
disk head would get out there anyhow.
Actually, there WOULD be some disk head movement involved, enough so
that I don't think it makes any bloody difference where you put the
swap partition (yes it does, the best place to put the swap partition
is on another drive!). And it's not as easy as what I said, because the
swapper is intimately tied into the VM system, so the scheduling doesn't
always work perfectly. So I guess the conclusion is that there is no
conclusion, all is Dada.
--
Eric Lee Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.tripod.com/~e_l_green
One database programmer/system administrator for hire, see web site above
------------------------------
From: Steve McClay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Midnight Commander
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 02:30:44 GMT
Hi,
Could anyone here please help me with Midnight Commander. I am a new
user and I am using it to transfer files. I connected to the server
using ftp link option. Now the problem is that it would not go into a
directory and gives me the following message :
'Too many levels of symbolic links(40)'..
What does it mean ? The server is ftp.cdrom.com and the path in which
the link is ftp.cdrom.com/pub/
Almost all the directories there have the same problem(and I want to
access linux specifically).
Thanks in advance,
Steve.
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
------------------------------
From: Miguel Lastra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: lilo +10Gb
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:36:42 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is there anything I must take into account when installing lilo on a
10Gb HD. A friend told me that que could not install lilo when
installing Suse 6.0 and he has a 10Gb HD. I thought that there were only
problems with old BIOS and large disks. Is that right ?
Thanks in advance
Miguel L.
------------------------------
From: Steffen Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: floppy stays read only
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:06:03 +0200
David Magda wrote:
> Why is it that Linux keeps telling me that my floppy is read only? I mount
> one floppy that is, but every other floppy after that is also RO even if it
> is not. When I umount the first one, flip the tab to make it R/W, and
> remount it, it still says it's R/O. As far as I can tell it has something
> to do with the cache/buffers but running 'sync' doesn't seem to do
> anything. Even the command 'dd' says that it's R/O, and 'mdir' (from the
> mtools package) keeps spitting the same contents even though I've changed
> floppies.
>
> This is on Linux 2.2.3, on a majorly updated Red Hat 5.0 distribution.
>
> --
> David Magda <dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca>, 2nd Year Electrical Eng.
> "Well," said Pooh, "what I like best--" and then he had to stop and think.
> Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a
> moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were,
> but he didn't know what it was called. -A.A.Milne,The House at Pooh Corner
You have to add write permissions to /dev/fd0 for all ( only if you're Comp.
is stand alone with chmod o+w /dev/fd0 ) or add yourself to the group <floppy>
in the file /etc/group.
Ciao,
==================
- Steffen Wagner -
==================
------------------------------
From: "mikerego" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: KDE very slow
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:09:32 GMT
I've installed KDE desktop and find it very, very slow. I have a Intel 233
mmx processor, 3.2 gig hard drive, 48megs of EDO ram 35megs of swap space
and I am running RedHat 5.2. When I start KDE desktop and start a program my
drive just goes nuts (reading and writing that's what it sounds like) and
does it for a while until the program loads. A couple of days ago I was on
the net and walked away for a while and when I came back the screensaver was
on as usual and when I clicked my mouse well, my drive started to go nuts
again and the screen was blank with a vague outline of the desktop and it
started to draw one icon at a time drawing it at about a minute for each
icon. I had to wait and keep moving my mouse so the screensaver wouldn't
come back on so I wouldn't have to start all over again my mouse was jerky
and most of the time was frozen until it got its turn from the processor and
then shoot across the desktop. Is this normal for KDE to be slow? Do I need
a "faster computer" or is something wrong?
Oh by the way I have AfterStep, Window Maker installed and they all work
fine.
Thanks,
M. Rego
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Help! Null modem and pppd
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:58:50 GMT
Hi guys.
I've been away a few days, but still cannot get things working.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
nts-online.net wrote:
> Hi-
> lets backup a couple of steps here -just to play it safe-
> 1.null modem is hooked up.
Yep. 9pin end into com 1 on the notebook, and 25pin end into com 2 on
486 box.
> 2.issue the command "killall pppd" on both boxes.
done
> 3.via minicom can box A login to box B
No. Though it tries hard. An initial character string comes up asking
for the login prompt, minicom sends some AT strings, while on box B,
mgetty closes.
> 4.via minicom can box B login to box A
No.
> 5.can the box that logs in to the box with the
> modem /i assume you only have one modem here,
> if you have one modem per box try with both./
> dial the net,ie. can you login into box A from box B
> and read news or email.
Lets call Box A (192.168.1.1) the 486 box with a 28.8k modem on com2.
Lets call box B (192.168.1.2) the notebook box.
Box B has a PCMCIA 33.6K modem running off com2. Both boxes can dial
out and connect to the internet using kppp. As I have only one phone
line I'm not sure what you mean here, digs, about loging into box A from
box B via the modem.
>
> once you have -all- these steps down we'll go tto the next step.
> post any questions you have.
Thanks for your help digs. What am I doing wrong? What would be a
correct mgetty command line. I've been using mgetty -r /dev/ttyS0 on
box B (the notebook).
Regards
Paul.
> --
> later on,
> digs
> :wq
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
------------------------------
From: "D. Vrabel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Strip libc
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:50:33 +0100
On 10 May 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hi, I am new with libc, but very interested in making libc6 smaller.
> May I ask what "strip" means? If libc6 is striped, would it be in the
> same size as libc5? Thank you.
strip removes the debugging information used by symbolic debuggers to
match the machine code to the source. Stripping a program or library
significantly reduces the size.
David
--
David Vrabel
Engineering Undergraduate at University of Cambridge, UK.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Skeet)
Subject: Re: Bizarre memory problem
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:57:49 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Now, fair enough, it's using too much buffering/caching and I can
> > hopefully tweak that (although I'd rather hoped I wouldn't have to - I'd
> > expect it to kick things out of the caches/buffers automatically when I
> > needed more memory)
>
> Yes, it should.
Good. Glad to know it's not just me then :)
> > but I don't understand why it's not even touching
> > swap. How can I check whether swap is turned on properly or not? I would
> > *guess* that if I hadn't turned it on, it wouldn't show up in free, but I
> > don't know...
>
> I believe that this is correct.
>
> 2.2.1 had significant bugs, although I don't recall that this was supposed
> to be one of them. Still, it has been out of date for more than 2 months.
> Have you tried 2.2.7?
Nope - will do. Thanks very much.
--
Jon Skeet - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet/
------------------------------
From: Nitin Mule <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and windows floppy drive problems
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:35:53 GMT
Hi,
Check /etc/fstab for the entry corresponding to your floppy device eg
/dev/fd0. If it specifies ext2fs as file system type, change it to
msdos. Or simply be explicit while mounting dos formatted floppy. Type
mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 (or whatever floppy device you have). Hope this
helps.
Nitin.
Baumans wrote:
>
> I use a 3.5 inch floppy drive. It works fine normally, but
> when I have linux installed, it always says that (in windows) any
> (formatted)
> floppy isn't formated. This happened both times when I installed linux
> twice, and when I uninstalled
> linux the first time, it worked. Do you know any way to fix it without
> uninstalling linux.I use slackware linux 3.6 .
>
> --
> webpage: http://johntb.freeservers.com
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> G! d- s--:- a---- C++ ULU++++ P+ L+ E W++ N++ o K- w+
> O! M- V- PS PE+ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R tv+ b++ DI++++ D-
> G e-- h! !r y-
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
------------------------------
From: "Prasanth Kumar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE very slow
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:40:08 GMT
I have run KDE on a Pentium 166 w/ 64megs ram before with good performance.
More memory makes a lot of difference. Also upgrading to a 2.2 kernel made
a great deal of difference (I got this from trying OpenLinux 2.2 which uses
KDE)
for me. I think there might be some bugs in the screensaver code. You might
try
disabling that or upgrading to a newer KDE. Also do a "ps" or "free" at the
time it
is slow to see your memory usage.
mikerego <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:MIQZ2.2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I've installed KDE desktop and find it very, very slow. I have a Intel 233
> mmx processor, 3.2 gig hard drive, 48megs of EDO ram 35megs of swap space
> and I am running RedHat 5.2. When I start KDE desktop and start a program
my
> drive just goes nuts (reading and writing that's what it sounds like) and
> does it for a while until the program loads. A couple of days ago I was on
> the net and walked away for a while and when I came back the screensaver
was
> on as usual and when I clicked my mouse well, my drive started to go nuts
> again and the screen was blank with a vague outline of the desktop and it
> started to draw one icon at a time drawing it at about a minute for each
> icon. I had to wait and keep moving my mouse so the screensaver wouldn't
> come back on so I wouldn't have to start all over again my mouse was jerky
> and most of the time was frozen until it got its turn from the processor
and
> then shoot across the desktop. Is this normal for KDE to be slow? Do I
need
> a "faster computer" or is something wrong?
> Oh by the way I have AfterStep, Window Maker installed and they all work
> fine.
> Thanks,
> M. Rego
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gambit32)
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux.slackware,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Problems with looking up hostnames after upgrade
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:48:07 GMT
Could the be causing the problems with my homepage though?
On Mon, 10 May 1999 06:19:20 GMT, Hardave Riar
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I had the same problem with my 3.6 install, all the tcp wrapper logs in
>/var/log/messages were by ip, but once I setup my /etc/hosts.allow, and
>/etc/hosts.deny the hostnames were listed. I guess tcp wrappers doesn't
>do a dns check unless forced to do so.
>
>Hardave
>(remove no-spam. to reply)
>
>Gambit32 wrote:
>>
>> we recently upgraded from slackware 3.1 to 3.6, and now our machine is
>> having severe problems getting hosts from ips.
>>
>> TCP wrappers should give out the username@host when we connect to our
>> server, but that doesnt work. it gives usernam@ip.
>>
>> In my perl scripts and includes on my web page
>> (http://www.academic.marist.edu/carob/) it should be saying came from
>> host / ip but that doesnt work either.
>>
>> Even more peculiar, we have listings in /etc/hosts like
>> 148.100.215.108 area51.groom-lake.nv.us area51
>> When i connect to the machine, it used to say
>> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" but it wont even do THAT anymore.
>>
>> I have no idea exactly where the problem is. Ive checked the kernel,
>> my perl scripts, ive recompiled my wrapper program. im just lost!
>>
>> PLEASE anyone who can help. PLEASE.
------------------------------
From: Mark Tranchant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can't see more than 64.8MB of ram....
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:39:26 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tim Sutherland wrote:
>
> BTW: The 1.0.x kernel is /extremely/ old. You should definitely upgrade it.
He must have meant 2.0.27 - the 1.0 series only went up to 1.0.9.
Mark.
------------------------------
From: Mark Tranchant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat price...
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:32:54 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you don't need the support and printed manuals, and still want Red
Hat, get it from Cheapbytes (www.cheapbytes.com).
Mark.
Ray wrote:
>
> I just checked out the price on the newest version of RedHat (6.0),
> and I see that the basic boxed set is going to sell for between
> $75-$80, to which I say, "ARE THEY OUT OF THEIR EVER-LOVING MINDS?!"
> Is there really that much new in 6.0 to justify such an extreme price
> hike? I got 5.2 for $20, for the basic boxed set. That was a good
> sale price, but even the off-sale price ($40) was about half of what
> 6.0 is going for. What are the thoughts on this? Is RedHat shooting
> themselves in the foot here? As much as I like Linux, it's still not
> *fully* ready for prime-time (by that I mean the *average* home
> computer user).. no USB support, last I checked, for example. The
> average consumer is going to be real pissed off if they spend $80 for
> Linux and they encounter problems with it.. and that can't be a good
> thing for Linux in general. OK, they readily pay $80+ and have
> problems with Windoze, but still... And, yes, I know we can get
> RedHat for "free" over the Net, but your average user might not want
> to do that, or not know how to go about doing it. I just can't help
> think that this is a Bad Thing, since RedHat is the distribution of
> Linux most often seen in retail outlets. Or, am I way off base here?
>
> Personally, this has dead-set me against getting RedHat 6.0 as my next
> Linux. It'll be Caldera or SuSE for me! Most likely the latter...
>
> Ray
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A Guy Called Tyketto)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Boycott Intel on your own webpage
Date: 6 May 1999 15:56:47 -0500
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
Andrew Comech ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Wed, 5 May 1999 20:04:58 -0400, Bill Frisbee wrote:
>
> >Get the hell out of here, go use your AMD and leave those of us who are
> >happy with our Pentium III (dual even) alone.
> >
> >
> >Bill F.
>
> Bill F. Proud Owner of Pentium III Dual Even,
> why would not _you_ get the F. out of here?
>
> Regards,
> a.
Actually, I'll make it better, and take the whole damned thread out
of c.o.l.misc and c.o.l.hardware. Followups are now set to
comp.os.linux.advocacy ONLY. go bitch about your CPU wars there. that's
what the group is for. 'nuff said.
BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unix Systems Administrator, | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WebMaster, NewsMaster.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.omnilinx.net/~tyketto
PGP: 1024/E9DF4D85 67 6B 33 D0 B9 95 F4 37 4B D1 CE BD 48 B0 06 93
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------------------------------
From: Andrew Carol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 13:51:59 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthias Warkus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't try to divert from the subject. We were talking about how fast
> software development is. And I don't need to explain to you what the
> reason is that people run Windows and not an alternative?
Speed of development is one small part of the overall equation of cost,
availability, features, quality, support, documentation, etc.
People weigh it their own way and use what they want. If proprietary
was not better able to meet some needs it would simply not exist.
> Funny how you know the average consumer so well.
Well, frankly the cash register seems to know them pretty well. I
interact with two extended families of people who are not in any
technical kind of business and they love their Windows boxes. They
bitch about this or that, but they line up for upgrades, seem to love
the availability of software and seem to be, overall, very happy.
They don't develop. GNU means nothing to them. Free software means
Shareware they "forget" to pay for.
Give them an alternative to Windows which runs what they want and is
"better", and they'd probably go for it. Until then you are just
spouting off about how bad it is for the workers today and when the
revolution comes what we will do with the elite criminal band of
Capitalist thugs.
We can argue theory all day, but in the end its when the rubber meets
the road that matters. Free software will do well, but it will never
come to dominate the industry. In five years things will still
overwhelmingly favor proprietary software and you will still be bitter
about it.
Oh well.....
------------------------------
From: James Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
talk.politics.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really)
Date: 05 May 1999 20:15:16 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Costello) writes:
> Nonetheless, there are better licenses out there than the GPL,
It depends on what your goals are.
> such as the BSD-style license shipped with FreeBSD. I also have
> nothing against the real BSD license.
The BSD license has nothing whatsoever to reccomend it above the
FreeBSD or MIT licenses, unless you yourself happen to be one of the
regents of the University of California.
--
ACTUALLY reachable as @free-lunch.demon.(whitehouse)co.uk:james+usenet
------------------------------
From: James Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
talk.politics.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really)
Date: 05 May 1999 20:11:25 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Costello) writes:
> The GPL is a crock. It forces openness. That's not freedom.
> You like walking outside sometimes, I would bet. Would you like
> being *FORCED* to walk outside all the time? That's the key
> problem with the GPL and many recognize it.
Nobody is forced to do *anything* with any piece of GNU software.
Nobody is forced to copy it or produce derivative works, certainly.
Above all, nobody is forced to agree to the licence merely in order to
use the software. This is _not_ a situaltion in which there are
victims who are stripped of choice. Why do you choose to portray is
as if it were?
--
ACTUALLY reachable as @free-lunch.demon.(whitehouse)co.uk:james+usenet
------------------------------
From: James Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
talk.politics.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really)
Date: 05 May 1999 20:28:08 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Costello) writes:
> I'm completely aware. I don't like developing on software
> that makes me release all of my code. If I want to, say, use an
> IRC server that's GPLed, and add my proprietary extensions to it
> for conferences amongst my coworkers, I can't do that, now, can
> I?
Yes. Read the benighted license already.
--
ACTUALLY reachable as @free-lunch.demon.(whitehouse)co.uk:james+usenet
------------------------------
From: James Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
talk.politics.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really)
Date: 05 May 1999 20:36:15 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Costello) writes:
> The freedom for the users to integrate its code into their
> proprietary code is certainly an important freedom.
It is not a "freedom".
You have no "freedom" to derive works from my intellectual property
(for instance) in a way that I choose not to allow, period. This is
what copyright law is all about.
--
ACTUALLY reachable as @free-lunch.demon.(whitehouse)co.uk:james+usenet
------------------------------
From: James Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
talk.politics.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really)
Date: 05 May 1999 20:33:34 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Costello) writes:
> It's free so people can "use" the code in one way or another.
> Besides, this isn't about open source! I have nothing against it
> at all! My only problem is with the GPL!
It seems to me that your problem with GPLed software is that you are
unable to create derived works without complying with the terms of the
copyright license.
Naturally, this is also true of all other copyright licenses.
--
ACTUALLY reachable as @free-lunch.demon.(whitehouse)co.uk:james+usenet
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522)
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 11 May 1999 12:17:55 +0200
"FM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It's more like, there was problem X, untouched for many years,
> finally resolved by government initiation. The suggestion that
> private initiatives would have contributed better in terms of
> universal education is rather laughable.
Why? Weren't there adequate schooling in the US before socialized
education began? How much higher is literacy now, compared to before
socialized education, and compared to nations that have suffered no
such system change in the same period?
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
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