Linux-Misc Digest #180, Volume #20 Thu, 13 May 99 04:13:31 EDT
Contents:
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522) (Marco
Anglesio)
Re: Proper use of /usr/local (Re: The Best Linux distribution?) (Alexander Viro)
Re: Java working with glibc2.1 (RedHat 6/Debian Potato etc) (Phillip Deackes)
Re: Installing "glib" and "gtk" : how?? ("Spud")
Re: Need Presentation Graphics Software (Scott Johnston)
Re: Redhat 6.0 broken? (XuYifeng)
Re: Proper use of /usr/local (Re: The Best Linux distribution?)
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Sony,AOL, Canadian Railway (Alex Lam)
Re: Bash Question (Paul Kimoto)
Bash Question
Re: Knews Config Question (Quickie) (Keven R. Pittsinger)
Freeciv RPM - missing libraries (David Usherwood)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco Anglesio)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 05:49:34 GMT
On Wed, 12 May 1999 22:46:21 GMT, Peter Seebach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I don't think the welfare system is necessary. All you need is more than
>one employer. My employer knows that I could easily find other work. The
>welfare system is not an alternative; other work is.
I'll dispense with repeating that you and I both work in a situation where
the worker holds all the power due to a labour shortage. However, the
weakness of that statement follows along the same lines. With two
employers - even with an arbitrary, high number of employers, upwards wage
pressure is hardly a problem so long as there are plenty of prospective
employees.
For example, there are plenty of farms, but I can hardly see upwards
pressure on wages in the farm labour market. If anything, it is at the
very, very rock bottom for subsistence and that alone.
Let me draw a second illustration: growth of real mean family income in
the US and in Canada have been flat or in decline since 1974 (the US
started to inch upwards in fiscal 1996; Canada is unfortunately still
flat). This doesn't seem to indicate a terribly competitive labour market
as a rule (and really, it isn't a competitive labour market, with the baby
boom creating a labour glut). It may be competitive in sectors, but those
are counterbalanced by slippage in others. And that isn't a couple of
recession years here or there; that's a 20 year long trend.
>Unfortunately, they don't actually break it down numerically; I know that I
>get about 67% of my "net pay", but I am not told how much of that is taken
>for what purposes.
I get about the same, but it's broken down as EI, CPP (government pension
plan, mandatory deduction but also capped), and Federal Tax (of which 1/3
is actually provincial tax). I doubt that you pay as much in EI, for the
simple reason that the EI plan in Canada is probably much more generous
than that in the US.
>3% of that paycheck would nearly *DOUBLE* the amount she comes out ahead.
That's assuming that she saves it, and all of it. And, given a low salary,
your base deduction comes to a higher percentage of it; she wouldn't pay
as much percentage-wise as I do merely because she has more of it
protected. Again, regionalisms, and I'm not sufficiently familiar with
either tax code to make authoritative (as opposed to lay) assertions on
the subject.
However, the question remains: would the extra money change her life
substantially. I don't know how much your friend makes, but I still think
that it wouldn't. Let's say I save an extra 10 dollars a week from not
paying EI; 10 bucks, even if I saved it, would not change anything.
>But it doesn't work for him, either. In the long run, Joe Average would
>probably be better off without the amount of money wasted on this system,
Joe Average who doesn't ever collect? Certainly. However, that's why they
call it *insurance*. Likewise, you pay a few dollars for medical every
week, or your company does. If you stay healthy, you're fine, all is well
and dandy. If you have to have a heart transplant which is going to lay
back your insurer 100k, more than you'll ever contribute to the insurance
plan, well, you collect from all the other people who pay in but don't
get
out. It's the nature of insurance.
>Of course, part of this is just that, historically, our welfare system
>was exceptionally stupid; if you were entitled to, say, $20k/year (annualized)
>during your period of unemployment, the only way you could get any benefit
Isn't this welfare, and not EI? EI schemes tend to be term-limited (you
work a certain amount of time to qualify; EI gives you a certain amount of
time to find work). You continue to consume during this period - the money
goes directly back into the local economy.
Is the declining returns with increasing earnings a bug or a feature? I'd
rather think it's a bug. At least it is here: they want you to find a job
which pays you better than a small fraction of what your old job did
(which is what EI pays you: a fraction of your prior earnings). It may not
be "incentive to get your feet on the ground", as you put it, but a job
which pays you the same as or less than your EI does is not going to get
your feet on the ground; it'll just put you in a cycle of intermittent and
abject poverty, working minimum wage (or less) with no means to get out of
a minimum-wage existence.
marco
--
,--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
> Marco Anglesio | Whenever books are burned <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] | men also in the end are burned. <
> http://www.the-wire.com/~mpa | --Heinrich Heine <
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Viro)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Proper use of /usr/local (Re: The Best Linux distribution?)
Date: 13 May 1999 01:15:31 -0400
In article <7hdktl$1dtr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <7hdh9r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Alexander Viro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Preferably from cron task. Of three packaging systems in question RPM
>>is the only one unable to do that. Both dpkg/dselect/apt and ports can
>>do it quite fine.
>
>Yow! Maybe if we go about five years without anyone mentioning new
>bugs introduced by an update I'll think about auto-installing them
>into a production system. Otherwise you are dreaming. There is
>something called autorpm that offers the capability if I wanted it.
Excuse me? Ever heard of sendmail? On a master box script downloads the
relevant new versions (including dependency-required ones), dumps them
on a local fs and mails you the list. It's your choice WTF you will install.
On the slave boxen it simply takes upgrades from the master. If a slave
is configured be a bare X-terminal it has no frigging business to download
the heck of stuff and clobbering the network. Why not rdist? Because rdist
knows squat about dependencies. And is not clever wrt preserving config.
Darn, root exploit of the week in wu-ftpd happened. You have 7 FTP servers.
Running that abomination. You will backup/nuke/reinstall fscking everything
on those boxen? Could you spell "downtime"?
As for autorpm - does it track library dependencies? If it simply plonks
everything new on the local fs or, worse yet, blindly installs it it is not
what I was talking about.
>>RedHat released two beta versions as stable. 5.0 and 5.1. After that they
>>got a stable tree (5.2). Funny thing being, if you will compare them with
>>the contemporaneous snapshots of Debian -unstable you'll see that amount
>>of problems was more or less same. Except that RH had put their betas as
>>public releases.
>
>What's your point here? Everybody has bugs in every version. If you
>don't believe it you just aren't paying attention. But, the bugs
>in 5.0/5.1 where mostly avoided if you installed everything from
>scratch instead of upgrading piecemeal from earlier versions. If you
>have kept your own stuff separate, this is easier anyway.
Cool. I know completely well that every version of anything has bugs.
Thank you for reminding. But then there is a question of what you are
calling beta and what you are calling release. Reinstall? It's not a
fscking Windows.
>>If you are running -unstable/-CURRENT/RawHide(or how the
>>heck does RH call their *official* unstable tree) you are expected to
>>meet bugs, broken dependencies, etc. But not with the public releases.
>
>I suppose if it is the first time you've ever loaded an operating
>system you might expect it to be perfect. Most of us are no longer
hear, hear... Again, it's a question of the point when you are
releasing your stuff. Bugs will be there, no doubt. But here we had two
distributions who did the same transition. During the same period. Interval
from relatively stable libc5-based system to glibc-based one was the same.
One team released 3 versions. Another released 1. Surprise, surprise, first
2 variants from the first team were about as buggy as beta version of the
second at the corresponding moments. Difference being: the second team had
slightly higher standards wrt the level of bugginess in release and didn't
call the thing stable until it really became stable. It had bugs, indeed.
Any system has.
>so naive. Before you jump to any conclusions about these being
>just Linux bugs, note that I am replacing other systems with the
Linux bugs? Cool. Really. Redhat != Linux. Please, stop this
idiocy. There *are* bugs in Linux. In the kernel, that is. As well as
there are bugs in FreeBSD kernel. But bugs in question are *bugs* *of*
*a* *distribution*. One of several distributions based on Linux kernel.
And talk about Linux bugs belongs to linux-kernel, not here.
As for the packaging systems - get a clue. The fact that RH
doesn't provide a decent one doesn't mean that such beasts are useless.
--
"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Phillip Deackes)
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Java working with glibc2.1 (RedHat 6/Debian Potato etc)
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:41:37 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Hans Wolters wrote:
>Phillip Deackes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> found a keyboard
> and wrote the following ....
>
>>There is a glibc 2.1 compiled jdk 1.1.7 at the following url which works
>>fine here:
>>
>>http://shell.ncm.com/~kreilede/
>>
>>All you need to do is download the tar.gz archive (18 MB!!) and unzip
>>and untar it. No compiling needed.
>
>What's the difference with the glibc version's that www.blackdown.org has on
>their mirror's?
No idea, Hans. I was given the ncm.com url and just went ahead and
downloaded it. Since it worked, I didn't bother looking elsewhere.
--
Phillip Deackes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian Linux v.2.1
------------------------------
From: "Spud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Installing "glib" and "gtk" : how??
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:55:04 GMT
Obviously, it can't find GTK+ version greater than 1.2.1. Did you
install 1.2.1? Or 1.2.2?
>I'm new to linux, and one of the first steps I'm trying to take in my
>transition phase (from win98, or course) is get a good MP3 player :o) I've
>been trying to install X11Amp for 3 days in vain.
>
>The problem lies in when, in the readme file, it says to install glib 1.2
>and gtk 1.2 . After several attempts I managed to install glib/gtk and
their
>respective 'devel' through rpm. But when I try to install X11Amp, it goes
>fine until something like this is printed:
>
>GLIB - version >= 1.2.1... yes
>GTK - version >= 1.2.1...no
>
>I tried re-compiling gtk from the tar.gz files, but I'm stuck at
./configure
>where after checking the GLIB version, it says something like "X....no"
then
>dies :))
>
>Anyway to get thru this? I can't live without MP3!!!!
>
>lancelot98
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott Johnston)
Subject: Re: Need Presentation Graphics Software
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:49:20 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jack Steen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>... I need to
>display slides a la MS Powerpoint or SGI Showcase. I am unaware of any
>software to do this under Linux. Can anyone suggest something? Any
>comments from experienced users would be welcome.
>
ivtools flipbook can do that, with Ctrl-F/Ctrl-B navigation of
multiple frames (http://www.vectaport.com/ivtools/).
Scott Johnston
Vectaport Inc.
http://www.vectaport.com
------------------------------
From: XuYifeng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Redhat 6.0 broken?
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:34:43 +0800
this is not true, I make the same kernel in RH5.2, they have same configure,
I can make Linux2.2.7 kernel in RH5.2, but always fail in RH6.0,
I think lilo in RH6.0 is broken.
---
XuYifeng
Johan Kullstam wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas B. Quillinan) writes:
>
> > XuYifeng ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > : Is Redhat6.0 broken and refuse to install new kernel?
> > : I have installed kernel source file 2.2.7 and make a kernel, the kernel
> > : is only 470K,
> > : but when I run lilo, it always complains that "Kernel /boot/zImage is
> > : too big",
> > : why?!
> >
> > It seems that lilo is a little broken in RH6...I have the same problem.
> > do a make bzImage instead of a make zImage - That works for me!
>
> it's not lilo's fault. it's the brain dead design of the intel x86
> processor. a zImage suffers from the 640k 16 bit memory access
> limitation. the bzImage avoids this by expanding and loading in
> stages but that has been problematic with certain machines -- mostly
> laptops.
>
> --
> johan kullstam
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Proper use of /usr/local (Re: The Best Linux distribution?)
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:10:32 GMT
In article <7hditp$1cng$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) wrote:
> Good point. All I'm really after is the ability to mkfs the system
> partition(s) without losing anything of my own. However, most
> everything you grab in source form wants to install itself in
> /usr/local, so it's extra work to modify the install destination
> of your locally tweaked stuff so you can turn over /usr/local
> to the stock packages.
It's still unclear what distinction you're drawing between "stock
packages" and "your locally tweaked stuff". Are you saying you have
[for example] a stock installation of apache as well as a "tweaked"
version? In that case, I don't understand why you care about the
"stock" version at all. If you're saying something else, I can't see
what it is.
...unless you're talking about *user* versions of applications, as in a
httpd run on a different port by a [non-admin] user. Such applications
are supposed to be installed within the user's home directory, since
those users aren't supposed to have write access to /usr/local anyway.
--
-Bill Clark
Systems Architect
ISP Channel
http://locale.ispchannel.com/
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
------------------------------
From: Alex Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sony,AOL, Canadian Railway
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:40:37 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In case you haven't heard, Sony and AOL are looking to deploy Linux
> in consumer products (AOL: A set-top box, Sony: nearly everything).
>
> Also the Canadian National Railway is rolling out Linux to 100
> server to serve up email, DNS, WEB pages and be proxies. This decision
> was based on stability, ease of installation and maintainability
> over the past 6 years of using Linux as a DNS.
>
> Not bad, huh? That's one massive blwo to the "Linux can't do
> the enterprise" brigade! Read that, D H Brown and Mindcraft!
>
> ;-)
>
> (BTW, If you don't want to take my word for it, the links can be found
> at http:://www.kieser.net/linux.html)
>
> Brad
>
>
The US military also vetoed Windoze.
See enclosed article below:
Posted 12/05/99 9:09am by Graham Lea
US military vetoes NT, Exchange for battle
system
The US Army, currently not deployed in Kosovo but who knows what may
happen next (it's in Earls Court -- CIA maps again -- Ed), does not trust
Windows NT or Exchange security. Microsoft hasn't been allowed to
tender for the US Army Battle Command System (ABCS), which requires
secure messaging.
The winner is Lotus Notes, running on Sun Solaris. Microsoft was peeved,
especially as it had persuaded the UK Information Technology Security
Evaluation Criteria (ITSEC) certification board to give Windows NT 4.0
(with Service Pack 3) an E3/FC-2 rating, which Microsoft calls "the
highest
security evaluation possible for a general purpose operating system". MS
also claims this is "roughly equivalent to a C2 evaluation under the US
Trusted Computer Security Evaluation Criteria (TCSEC) regime, better
known as the Orange Book".
Mary Ellen O'Brien, director of DoD sales, Microsoft Federal, confirmed
that MS is working with a third party, which she refused to name, to
develop a Unix client for Exchange. This is part of the fight back, as
Microsoft is concerned that Notes may increasingly replace Exchange in
the military. Terry Edwards, director of technical integration for the US
Army's Force XXI initiative at Fort Hood, Texas, said that "Lotus Notes
is a
far more technically superior product". At Fort Hood, Solaris x86 is
being
used, because "NT cannot support out security requirements".
Colonel Robert Railford, director of the US Army's Defence Message
System, noted that Notes on Solaris gave "the best solution for the ABCS
tactical war fighter". Note, however, that the US military also believes
Jeff
Papows has a glittering combat record (see Lotus chief's 'combat' tales)
--
go figure.
Microsoft is not announcing any date when it will try again with its
Unix-based Exchange client. �
Source: http://www.theregister.co.uk/990512-000005.html
=====================================
But one thing Windoze beats Linux is in the entertainment department. My
Windoze box can do dvd, mp3, vcd, etc, better. That's about it.
Alex Lam.
*** *** *** *** *** *** ***
Remove the X from my email address if reply by e mail.
**************************************************
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Kimoto)
Subject: Re: Bash Question
Date: 13 May 1999 03:36:29 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On my Linux machine I do "bash -version" from the
> command line 5 times.
>
> Then I do "ps -ax" and I see:
>
> 464 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
> 465 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
> 466 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
> 467 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
> 471 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
>
> What is going on here? Why should doing "bash -version"
> fork a new shell for me?
In the current version, the shell should exit immediately,
but in older versions it does not. (I suppose that it
leaves you in the new shell.) If you really want to know
the version of whichever "bash" is invoked when you ask
for "bash", you might try
$ bash -version -c ''
--
Paul Kimoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Bash Question
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:46:19 GMT
Hello People,
Please explain this one to me:
On my Linux machine I do "bash -version" from the
command line 5 times.
Then I do "ps -ax" and I see:
464 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
465 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
466 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
467 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
471 p2 S 0:00 bash -version
What is going on here? Why should doing "bash -version"
fork a new shell for me?
Tolo
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Keven R. Pittsinger)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Knews Config Question (Quickie)
Date: 13 May 1999 06:58:28 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <VSc_2.6725$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Craig Yuen) writes:
> In article <7hb98d$30j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Keven R. Pittsinger) writes:
>> OK, I've got a weirdie for yas.
>>
>> I had my Knews editor automatically put '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' as my
>> From: when posting from Knews 1.0B1. I forgot how I did it. I ended up
>> changing providers recently to Earthlink. After fighting with the system
>> here at home, I finally got my email just about squared away, but my Knews
>> still tries putting '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' in the From: line. How can I
>> change this? What needs working on?
>>
>> Thanxx.
>>
>> Keven
>
> try modifying the "*fullName:" field in the ~/.knews/config-news file.
>
> hope this helps.
I thought that was just for my truename and Knews added the address from
another option.
Keven
--
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
==============================================================================
Science-Fiction Adventure
In Reavers' Deep
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Usherwood)
Subject: Freeciv RPM - missing libraries
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:09:50 GMT
I am running SUSE 5.2. I downloaded the FreeCiv RPMs and tried to install
them. rpm says I am missing ld-linux.so.2 and libc.so.6. Where can I get them?
------------------------------
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