Linux-Misc Digest #282, Volume #20 Thu, 20 May 99 23:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: The Vi Lovers Home Page (Scott Lanning)
Re: Wyse50 emulation how is it done? ("T.E.Dickey")
Re: Linux or linux? (eloki)
Answer: how to power off laptop under Linux 2.2.+ (Jerome Mrozak)
Re: [Q] how can i mount logical partitions? (**Nick Brown)
Re: PPP tantrums (brian moore)
Re: New Star office for glibc 2.1 (Charles E Taylor IV)
RH6.0 PPP and X (Grand Admiral Thrawn)
Re: Ultra DMA/66 hard drive problems (Ylo Mets)
Re: [Q] PPP-strange error!! (Martin Regan)
Re: No rule to make target (**Nick Brown)
Linux supporting UPS? ("Bahnhof NEWS")
Re: [newbie] I need to change the IP address (olivier eymere)
Re: NT the best web platform? ("Chad Mulligan")
Re: RH6.0 PPP and X (Steve Nospam)
Re: Commercially speaking....? ("Phil Bousfield")
Re: Root Password lost... ("D. Vrabel")
Re: news: Linux growth at 25% per year. (David Goldstein)
Re: A Capitalists view of freedom (Peter Seebach)
Re: * * * Mindcraft offer to re-run Linux vs NT test (**Nick Brown)
Adding fonts to Wordperfect 8 ("jb")
Re: [Q] how can i mount logical partitions? (Jerome Mrozak)
Re: A Capitalists view of freedom (George MacDonald)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott Lanning)
Subject: Re: The Vi Lovers Home Page
Date: 20 May 1999 03:08:55 GMT
William Wueppelmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Vi is fast and efficient.
Okay, I grant that vi is fast to start-up, but once you've gone
through the launch sequence (3, 2, 1...and we have liftoff) for
the emacs operating system, then you can leave it running; no
need to leave emacs..
: It edits text, and that is all, but it does it
: very well. There are only about a hundred vi commands, making it
: easier to learn than emacs, and each command is a single keystroke.
Hmm, I suspect it depends alot on how one originally learned each
text editor. I found emacs more intuitive and easy to learn.
: It is modal, allowing it to avoid using too many modifier keys or
I think emacs is modal, or maybe hierarchical is a better word for it.
The commands are grouped (somewhat) in hierarchies, so it's easy to
remember. I understand the dislike of using keys outside the homerow,
but I found when I tried vi that I often had to hit ESC-SHIFT-; to enter
command mode, and that was annoying too. Maybe I was doing it wrong.
It seems like two modes was more confusing.
: others). It provides efficient and flexible interaction with other
: applications, allowing you to use programs like ispell, fmt, tr and
: others to modify an active document.
C-u M-| = pipe "region" through shell command
: Basically, it does one thing, and it does it very well. In short, it's
: a traditional Unix program, and so its cool for the same reasons that
: grep, tr, sed or tee are cool: they're simple but highly flexible.
Yeah, definitely I think that's one of the coolest things about Unix.
--
Scott Lanning: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://physics.bu.edu/~slanning
------------------------------
From: "T.E.Dickey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Wyse50 emulation how is it done?
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:22:01 GMT
Kevin Power <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Raj Rijhwani wrote:
> xterm is a termtype in is own right. Is there any reason why you
> cannot set your TERM under AIX to xterm, and use it that way? Is
> there a specific need for Wyse50? IF so, then I suspect you're
> going to need something more sophisticated than a telnet session
> under X-window (e.g. serial Wyse50 to linux running telnet from a
> shell login).
> The reason I need to emulate Wyse50 is that the application on the AIX is setup
> to use Wyse50 or the data screen becomes garbage.
> Is there anyway in xterm to emulate Wyse50 or 60.
no - xterm doesn't do that.
(wyse50 and wyse60 aren't compatible either - what other choices does
the application give you?)
--
Thomas E. Dickey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.clark.net/pub/dickey
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (eloki)
Crossposted-To: aus.computers.linux
Subject: Re: Linux or linux?
Date: 21 May 1999 01:20:02 GMT
Andrew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote unto us:
>Thats why its GNU/Linux and not simply GNU. Its a combination
>of the Linux kernel and the GNU utilites.
Ah, so you'd say that there's lots of users running Symantec/Windows or
who used to be running Quarterdeck/Windows? I like the GNU utils and all,
and I'm not saying that "Linux" as a whole system could do without binutils,
fileutils etc. But it's just not warranted as a name. People out there
aren't running Symantec/Netscape/Winzip/Installshield/Windows 95. They're
just running Windows 95, with various utilities.
(Sorry, can't remember the name of the companies that wrote winzip and
installshield but you get the idea, I'm sure :)
--
eloki
eloki/at/zip.com.au
Dare I disturb the universe? You bet I do! :)
------------------------------
From: Jerome Mrozak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.sys.laptops
Subject: Answer: how to power off laptop under Linux 2.2.+
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:07:55 -0500
Jerome Mrozak wrote:
>
> My HP Omnibook 800ct has SuSE 6.1 (kernel 2.2.5) installed, and I
> recompiled the kernel to support APM. The system loads apmd on boot,
> and apm and xapm both report reasonable results.
>
> I'd like the Linux system to turn the power off at shutdown. I'm led to
> believe that "halt -p" or "poweroff" would do this, but the power
> doesn't get turned off by them on my machine/configuration.
>
> My Win95 partition does turn the power off, so this is an achieveable
> feat.
>
> My APM settings were: everything on (yes) except (IGNORE_SUSPEND = no)
> and (APM screen blanking = no).
>
> Thanks for help,
>
> Jerome.
Thanks to help from Werner Heuser
(http://www.snafu.de/~wehe/Laptop-HOWTO-5.html) I found out that
/sbin/init.d/halt apparently changed in Linux 2.2+. I went to the last
line of the file and changed it from:
exec $command -d -f
to:
exec $command -d -f -p
in the belief that $command would be "halt", and the laptop does NOW
power off when I enter the "halt" command as root.
Jerome.
------------------------------
From: **Nick Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Q] how can i mount logical partitions?
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:05:45 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This happens all the time. XF86Setup is sometimes not very clever with
re-configs.
No need to panic. X is started from the init process. It's worth
searching the net for info on this (look for /etc/inittab, etc). To
bypass almost all of that init process, type
linux single
at the LILO prompt. (replace "linux" with your kernel name, if it's
vmlinuz, etc)
Michael Doppler wrote:
>
> i have messed up the monitor setting of my XF86Config, and unfourtuneately
> have configured linux to start the kdm XServer login, so after the booting
> of linux is done my screen just flickers...
--
===============================================================
Nick Brown, Strasbourg, France (Nick(dot)Brown(at)coe(dot)int)
Protect yourself against Word 95/97 viruses, free - check out
http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/1446/atlas-t.html
===============================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: PPP tantrums
Date: 21 May 1999 02:04:57 GMT
On Thu, 20 May 1999 15:33:38 +0400,
Ferdinand V. Mendoza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Folks, here's a bugger:
>
> A week back, my ppp connection was still perfect until recently
> when I heard from a friend that my ISP was undergoing some
> system upgrade and the reason at times I can't make a connection.
> Just last night when the connection was back and my nightmare
> started. I tried to dial my ISP as usual via my kppp and everything
> seems to
> be okay except that when I check the details of my kppp, the remote
> IP address (ISP) is okay but the local address set, is my own IP
> address I assigned for my hostname. This really baffles me. How come?
<snip>
> May 19 05:55:34 wildfire pppd[863]: local IP address 192.168.53.1
> May 19 05:55:34 wildfire pppd[863]: remote IP address 212.72.1.2
> May 19 05:55:42 wildfire pppd[863]: Terminating on signal 15.
> May 19 05:55:42 wildfire pppd[863]: Connection terminated.
>
> As you can see from above 212.72.1.2 is my ISP's IP address.
> I can't do any Interneting at all with these.
It looks like you're not negotiating your IP anymore, but demanding that
the ISP gives you the 192.168.53.1 IP, which is useless on the net.
> My problem now is that my /etc/hosts file is altered and it also
> cripples my Samba stuff. Is there a remedy for this small problem?
> Do I have to make changes to my /etc/ppp/options file now that
> I suspect that it has to do with my ISP's upgrade.
> So many thanks in advance.
I doubt it has a thing to do with your ISP's changes: if so, it was an
accident waiting to happen -- you shouldn't be requesting IP numbers you
don't want. Perhaps their old system allowed you to do that and ignored
you, but certainly the current one does the proper thing and tells you
to come up with a proper IP number.
Add 'noipdefault' to your PPP options and pppd will negotiate for an IP
instead of demanding one that it shouldn't use.
--
Brian Moore | "The Zen nature of a spammer resembles
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | a cockroach, except that the cockroach
Usenet Vandal | is higher up on the evolutionary chain."
Netscum, Bane of Elves. Peter Olson, Delphi Postmaster
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charles E Taylor IV)
Subject: Re: New Star office for glibc 2.1
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:38:54 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Peter Englmaier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Nada. Still based on the old glibc....
I *have* heard (on Slashdot) of people running it on RH6 with success,
however.
--
========================================================
Charles E Taylor IV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
========================================================
Visit me on the web!
http://orangesherbert.ces.clemson.edu
========================================================
------------------------------
From: Grand Admiral Thrawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RH6.0 PPP and X
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 01:56:11 -0700
Hi
I just moved from RH5.1 to RH6.0 and now I am having a lot of
problems. In 5.1, my PPP and X set up were working just fine. In 6.0
PPP stopped working. I was using ezppp and I have the same
configuration as I used to have in 5.1, but pppd dies immediately after
I connect. Using kppp, I can connect, but I don't have control over
kppp (it sits there like it is waiting for something to happen) but X
starts telling me that it can't open display :0.0. After this I need to
reboot in order to get it to work right again.
Is anyone else having this problem? Anyone have any ideas? If I can't
fix this by this weekend, I'm just going to dump 6.0 for 5.1 again.
Phil Tracton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ylo Mets)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Ultra DMA/66 hard drive problems
Date: 18 May 1999 15:16:03 GMT
Sandra Silcot ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: You could try disabling the ata66 in the Quantum CR's. It should then
: run as a normal ata33 drive and you might get your UDMA back.
: Fireball CR ATA-66 Disable Utility
: http://service.quantum.com/AppNotes/Award_ATA66.htm (info)
: http://service.quantum.com/software/fbcrdma.exe (software)
: UltraDMA 33/66 Change Utility for Fireball CR Drives
: Version: 1.1
: Size: 248,538 bytes
: Description: Utility for disabling/enabling Ultra ATA/66 on Fireball CR
: drives. Use this utility to resolve Windows 95/98/NT DMA compatibility
: issues with Award BIOS's dated prior to 10/28/98. The utility must be
: run
: from either a DOS boot diskette or with the system restarted in MS-DOS
: mode (Win 95/98).
Or you could try to find a recent version of the BIOS from
the motherboard manufacturer's site and flash it.
It definitely worked with the Chaintech 6BTM MB and a
Quantum CR HDD. The advantage is that DMA is available in
Linux too.
Ylo Mets.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Regan)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: [Q] PPP-strange error!!
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:03:23 GMT
On Wed, 19 May 1999 02:59:21 GMT, Janusz Kawczak
<"jkawczak"@math,uncc.edu> wrote:
>Hi everyone:
>I've upgraded from RH5.2->RH6.0 and now I am getting some strange
>looking error messages.
>
>1) when the system boots, I get
>.... modprobe: can't locate module lo:0
>.... modprobe: can't locate module lo:1
>and so on, until 50 runs are reached.
>Any suggestions????
The root of the problem seems to be the file
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup-post
If you read through it, it does a check for Ip aliasing, but later on,
it checks if it is enabled, and if it is *not* enabled, then it calls
the ipaliasing script. (so I think the logic is inverted)
Also, I think if you had ipalising enabled, and were using it, it
would fail to load
Changing the condition to check from = no, to = yes fixes the problem.
Regards,
Martin
------------------------------
From: **Nick Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: No rule to make target
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:54:01 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Don't know about 5.50 (as far as I know, 5.50 isn't GNU yet), but if you
can live with 5.10, go to
ftp://ykbsb2.yk.psu.edu/pub/ghost/GS-5.10
There's a full kit there with everything you need.
benjamin wrote:
>
> Hello ,
> I am trying to build gs5.50, and i have the message "No rule to make
> target" all related to jpeg .
> So, i installed jpeglib, but the problem remains.
>
> Thanks for helping
> Benjamin
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
===============================================================
Nick Brown, Strasbourg, France (Nick(dot)Brown(at)coe(dot)int)
Protect yourself against Word 95/97 viruses, free - check out
http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/1446/atlas-t.html
===============================================================
------------------------------
From: "Bahnhof NEWS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Linux supporting UPS?
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:29:05 GMT
Anyone know if there is a built-in support for an UPS unit, in Linux?
I want to have Linux making a nice halt if receiving a signal from the UPS,
connected preferrably
to a serial port.
I use SuSE 6.1 with kernel 2.2.1.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 01:43:56 +0000
From: olivier eymere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [newbie] I need to change the IP address
emerald wrote:
>
> I have never worked with linux before, however the company I work for has
> linux setup for webserver (the person who set this up has left the
> company). I need to change the IP and gateway and I can't find any
> information on howto do this. Can someone help me
>
> ------------------ Posted via SearchLinux ------------------
> http://www.searchlinux.com
Read the man page for ifconfig. That will give you the basics. For
more information about linux networking read:
http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/NET-3-HOWTO.html
http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/Networking-Overview-HOWTO.html
Most distributions have a GUI network configurator, you might want to
check into that too.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT the best web platform?
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:13:52 -0700
But you must admit it would mirror a fair percentage of "real world"
projects. Maybe we could get MTV to do a Real World series on it too!
Miguel Cruz wrote in message ...
>Chad Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 5c. Better if you have the groups switch platforms too. Make the UNIX's
>> work on NT and The NT's work on UNIX.
>
>That way you'd have each platform benchmarking at about 2 requests served
>per month.
>
>miguel
------------------------------
From: nospam@nospam!.kom (Steve Nospam)
Subject: Re: RH6.0 PPP and X
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 02:12:10 GMT
On Fri, 21 May 1999 01:56:11 -0700, Grand Admiral Thrawn
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi
> I just moved from RH5.1 to RH6.0 and now I am having a lot of
>problems. In 5.1, my PPP and X set up were working just fine. In 6.0
>PPP stopped working. I was using ezppp and I have the same
>configuration as I used to have in 5.1, but pppd dies immediately after
>I connect. Using kppp, I can connect, but I don't have control over
>kppp (it sits there like it is waiting for something to happen) but X
>starts telling me that it can't open display :0.0. After this I need to
>reboot in order to get it to work right again.
>
>Is anyone else having this problem? Anyone have any ideas? If I can't
>fix this by this weekend, I'm just going to dump 6.0 for 5.1 again.
>
I wonder if it is related to KDE 1.1 and the 2.2 kernel. I've been
having similar problems with Caldera 2.2. I've never seen Linux so
unstable. I had a working SuSE 5.3 with KDE 1.0 and using the same
Kppp setup in Caldera 2.2 did not work reliably. I often got Kppp to
just sit forever with the message "setting speaker volume." When I
did get a ppp connection, I was unable to start any other applications
until killing the ppp connection, and this sometimes led to nothing
responding to the keyboard and a reboot. One thing that I've noticed
is that if you do not use any of the KDE themes, ppp seems to work OK.
Thus, you might try setting up a new account, and when you login for
the first time, you should get the KDE wizard where you can just not
select any themes.
I am thinking of trying SuSE 6.1, but I'm afraid that this may affect
that distro as well.
-Steve
*The only thing certain about the future is that it hasn't happened yet.*
------------------------------
From: "Phil Bousfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,linux.help,linux.news.groups,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Commercially speaking....?
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:18:47 +0100
Software only.
..........
>
>Are you speaking of hardware storage or software for storage management?
>
>
>> (2) What model(s) should we avoid?
>
>I'm not sure.
>
......etc
------------------------------
From: "D. Vrabel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: Root Password lost...
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:46:41 +0100
On Thu, 20 May 1999, Beni Huber wrote:
> Argh! It really has happened. We forgot our root password.
>
> Please have a heavy laugh.
>
> We'll probably have to reinstall Linux. Is there a way to just replace
> some of the components or does it
> have to be a complete reinstall?
No you don't.
> Is there another way to get at the password? We have RH 5.2 with shadow
> passwords on. We still have
> user access.
boot into single user mode (use single option at the LILO prompt). Or use
a boot disk that come with Red Hat.
David
--
David Vrabel
Engineering Undergraduate at University of Cambridge, UK.
------------------------------
From: David Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: news: Linux growth at 25% per year.
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:57:54 +0200
Alex Kaufman wrote:
> 2.3.6 is a development release of a Kernel, no way will RedHat release
> an upgrade with an unstable build. They probably include the latest
> *production* version, 2.2.9?
I was referring to SuSE 6.2, sorry about the confusion :)
David
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: A Capitalists view of freedom
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Seebach)
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:27:36 GMT
In article <7i1er4$lj0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mike Willett LADS LDN X7563 <[EMAIL PROTECTED],.com> wrote:
>Statistics are always fun. eg You are more likely to die by not wearing
>a seat belt then you are in winning the lottery. More Americans buy lottery
>tickets than wear seat belts.
Uh-huh.
>A member of your family is more likely to die from the gun that you own
>than a criminal.
This stastistic tells only a very small portion of the story.
You may be less likely to die, net, if you have a gun, because most of the
time, people "defending" themselves with guns don't fire them - most people
aren't stupid enough to wait around to be shot at.
Part of the problem is that, as the number of armed non-criminals goes up,
the number of people attacked by criminals goes down, so the number of people
killed violently may go down...
You can't get much useful information from a trivial statistic.
Consider this: What percentage of the people "killed" by guns that they own
would have, instead, died from overdoses of the aspirin that they own, or
valium, or something else? People have, historically, managed to kill
themselves without guns.
>I'd be very interested.
You might want to look at _More Guns, Less Crime_, by John Lott. You don't
have to agree with his conclusions, but his statistics are fairly well
researched.
>You don't need to be a scholar to think. If you're stupid enough
>to let you victim do anything - the chances are you're already mentally
>retarded and under sedation.
This only applies in some cases.
-s
--
Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/
Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam!
------------------------------
From: **Nick Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: * * * Mindcraft offer to re-run Linux vs NT test
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:23:18 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rod Roark wrote:
> Is it true what I heard about Bill G selling stock? :-)
Apparently he sells a few shares whenever he feels the need to buy a new
house/Picasso/country. His actual salary would surprise you (a few
million $, way less than some of the other big name CEOs take out of
their companies. Of course, they don't own quite the amount of stock
that Bill does.)
--
===============================================================
Nick Brown, Strasbourg, France (Nick(dot)Brown(at)coe(dot)int)
Protect yourself against Word 95/97 viruses, free - check out
http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/1446/atlas-t.html
===============================================================
------------------------------
From: "jb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Adding fonts to Wordperfect 8
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:31:54 -0400
How can I add other fonts to the limited ones that come with the downloaded
version of Wordperfect 8?
j.burns
------------------------------
From: Jerome Mrozak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Q] how can i mount logical partitions?
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:11:17 -0500
Michael Doppler wrote:
>
> hi everyone,
>
> can someone tell me how to mount a logical parition?
>
> i have messed up the monitor setting of my XF86Config, and unfourtuneately
> have configured linux to start the kdm XServer login, so after the booting
> of linux is done my screen just flickers...
>
> i tried to mount my linux partitions from a rescue floppy linux system but i
> had troubles doing that because i couldn't figure out how to mount the
> logical linux partitions located on an extended dos partition... so i didn't
> find a way to change my X86Config back to get my monitor to work...
> weird situation, isn�t it? ;-)
>
> hope someone can help,
> mike
wouldn't it be simply
mount -t ext2 /dev/hda5 /
(assuming your root was mapped to hda5)?
Or, in your rescue system, mount it somewhere else, then reboot:
mkdir /mnt/realroot
mount -t ext2 /dev/hda5 /mnt/realroot
Then your files (like /etc/passwd) would be at
/mnt/realroot/etc/passwd, and so on.
Jerome.
------------------------------
From: George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: A Capitalists view of freedom
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 03:13:51 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > David Kastrup wrote:
>
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kenneth P. Turvey) writes:
>
> > > > On 19 May 1999 00:02:53 +0200, David Kastrup
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > [Snip, I'm not even going to comment on the fear aspect.]
>
> > > > >No honest person has a chance to make any use of a weapon he
> might be
> > > > >carrying if a hoodlum chooses to attack him with a weapon. The
> > > > >hoodlum will not stand there as an open target and start the
> process
> > > > >by warning the other person. The honest person has no option to
> shoot
> > > > >potential hoodlums unawares. For that reason, the general easy
> > > > >availability in bearing arms is heavily disparaging honest
> people.
> > > >
> > > > Statistics don't bear you out.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, they do. Your chance of death by shooting in the
> > > U.S. is about a factor of 5 higher than in comparable countries with
> > > gun control. The school shootings are just an insignificant top of
> > > the iceberg.
> > >
> > > > The most successful way to defend against rape is with a handgun.
> > >
> > > What percentage of rapes has been avoided by the use of a handgun?
> > > Have any statistics?
> > >
> > > > This does increase the risk of accidental shooting, and the risk
> of
> > > > the `hoodlum' getting the gun (from zero to something finite), but
> > > > the risk of rape drops dramatically.
> > >
> > > Where have you got your numbers from? How many rapists will let
> their
> > > victim fumble with her handbag?
> > >
> > > > Just because you believe you have no use for a gun doesn't mean
> that no
> > > > one has a need for one. I don't need a gun to defend myself
> either, but
> > > > I am pleased that I have the right to if necessary.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, so has everybody else. And the persons that have the
> > > best "private" use for guns are those you would not want to have
> guns.
> >
> > It's interesting to note that the most likely reason for the "right to
> > bear arms" is not to protect oneself from other citizens, but to
> protect
> > the citizenry from the government. Recall at the time of the american
> > revolution the "government" was the enemy. Also note the way the bill
> > of rights are written, i.e. the do not gaurantee your rights to free
> > speech, or to due process ... They *prevent* the government from
> > passing laws to restirct these "rights". Why do you have to *protect*
> > the *people* from the government? The answer - human nature. There
> > is always a certain percentage of humans who would willingly use
> > whatever means(laws, rules, ...) to deprive you of life, liberty
> > and the persuit of happiness. It's also a fundamental precept
> > of any republic that the *people* are more powerful than the
> > government. Throughout history it is almost always the other
> > way arround, and I would venture to say a republic is a
> > very difficult thing to acheive and to keep.
>
> It's interesting to note what is actually being asserted here: that
> the purpose for which so many Americans purchase guns is to shoot
> police officers, members of the National Guard and those of the
> traditional Armed Forces.
>
Excuse me!!! No such assertion is made nor intended. I *DEMAND* that you
immediately apologize and retract your statement!
If you read what I wrote you find an explaination of the historical
context from which the constitutional amendment was drawn. I am neither
advocating nor critisizing anything.
Once again please take this discussion to a relevant news group!!!
You can READ?
>
--
We stand on the shoulders of those giants who coded before.
Build a good layer, stand strong, and prepare for the next wave.
Guide those who come after you, give them your shoulder, lend them your code.
Code well and live! - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (7th Coding Battalion)
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