Linux-Misc Digest #230, Volume #21 Sat, 31 Jul 99 06:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: Which flavor of Linux to use? (Elephant)
Re: CIA assassinations ("A.T.Z.")
Re: CIA assassinations ("A.T.Z.")
Re: CIA assassinations ("A.T.Z.")
Re: Help with shutdown script (Paul Kimoto)
Re: helping the Third World ("A.T.Z.")
Linux as a dial-up gateway ("Jose Alcino")
Re: What I think of linux. (Anthony Ord)
Re: What I think of linux. (DanH)
LUG in LONDON ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
realaudio player w/source code ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
growing a RAID-0 linear device (md driver) ("Ryan R. Klems")
Re: PCMCIA setup (Gernot Fink)
Re: CIA assassinations (Anthony Ord)
Re: What I think of linux. (Anthony Ord)
Re: SB PCI 128 Config ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: propertarianism ("Joseph T. Adams")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Elephant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Which flavor of Linux to use?
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:41:24 -0700
Rob van Hout wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:41:54 -0700, Elephant scribbled:
>
> > I heard Redhat doesn't do multiprocessor support; will try to verify if this
> > is the case.
>
> Bull ;-). Maybe the installed prefab kernel doesn't but you can recompile
> your kernel just as you can in any other Linux distribution.
>
> If you're running a dual-processor machine: upgrade to kernel 2.2! SMP
> support has had several improvements over 2.0, and is now configurable via
> make menuconfig. For kernel 2.0, uncomment the SMP = 1 in Makefile.
>
> --
> Rob van Hout
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Running Red Hat Linux 5.2, kernel 2.2.10 on a dual Pentium Pro 200 / 128MB
Well then, I stand corrected. I may have to put in a hot-swap hard drive slot for
convenient OS flipflopping, since they all have such varied appeal. A lot depends
on which OSes the EDA vendors are willing to support, too. My employers are (sort
of) pushing Red Hat, so I'm delighted to hear that the kernel can be patched up
for multiprocesser.
-- Elephant
who uses whatever he has to to get the job done
------------------------------
From: "A.T.Z." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: CIA assassinations
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:35:46 +0200
Donovan Rebbechi schreef:
> >That is a great idea. I'd love to see all the American socialists move to
> >Europe and all the European free market capitalists move to America. Then
>
> I think it's very simple minded to assume that those who aren't extreme
> rightists are all communists.
In The Netherlands we have a group of politicians calling themselves SP, they
are socialists and from what I've heard they all have the same wage. They are
NOT extreme, and they do not try to force others to live like they do. On most
issues they can get along with most of the other politicians.
We have something we call "poldermodel" everyone talks with everyone to solve
problems. This means there are not much real hardliners.
> You also seem dangerously close to suggesting that the only
> possible solutions are hard-line capitalism and hard line communism. It
> might interest some of the people in this thread to discover that there
> are people who do not see either of the two as optimal.
See above.
>
>
> --
> Donovan
------------------------------
From: "A.T.Z." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: CIA assassinations
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:52:25 +0200
Donovan Rebbechi schreef:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:29:09 +0200, A.T.Z. wrote:
> >Richard Kulisz schreef:
>
> >> Corporations will remain wherever they can make a profit, and this has been
> >> demonstrated in the USA and Australia.
> >
> >Nonsense. It is happening. Where have you been the last few years. Companies
> >using the possibilities there are. Perhaps the head-office in Washington and
> >the factory in Argentina.
>
> Ah yes, of course. All the companies are moving out of the USA and
> Australia.
Do I claim ALL; NO. But it is happening. An example taken direct from the real
word. Dutch shipyards are building ships in Poland cause labour is cheaper there
than in The Netherlands. After the ship is build it is shipped to The Netherlands
for the finishing touch (engines, wiring, accomodation etc). The company stays in
The Netherlands but much of the labour is done in an other country. Result: less
labour stays in The Netherlands.I do not blame Poland or the shipyard for this.
One of the reasons of this expensive labour are the high taxes.
I know this kind of thing happens al the time, and expect more to follow. Face it;
in The Netherlands labour costs about $35 per hour, in other countries it can be
as low as $4 per hour for the same activity. The clothing industry takes full
advantage of this. And I know others too.
> <SARCASM>The evidence for this is a huge reduction in the nations GDP per
> capita, the end result being a massive recession in both countries,
> resulting in triple digit unemployment and mass starvation</SARCASM>
>
> Not.
>
> This urban legend might be able to stir up some sentiments, but the fact
> remains that the US ( and Australia for that matter ) aren't experiencing
> the massive recessions that would accompany the kind of exodus that you
> just described.
For some companies it's difficult to split activities. And don't forget, it takes
some time before a large company can close a factory and build a new one in
another country.
> --
> Donovan
------------------------------
From: "A.T.Z." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: CIA assassinations
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:59:25 +0200
Jerry Lynn Kreps schreef:
> Richard Kulisz wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, A.T.Z. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Richard Kulisz schreef:
> > >> It's been done, over and over and over and over and over at nauseum and
> > >> you still remain unenlightened.
> > >
> > >Where ???? If you did then it might not be clare to everyone. Still think you
> > >dan't have a vision other then the Robin Hood kind of doing things.
> >
> > If you dismiss my vision as "the usual whining" (as you do below) then
> > this implies you must have known about it. So why the hell are you
> > complaining about a lack of vision? Hey, you may not want democracy
> > but plenty of people do.
> >
>
> "my vision" ???
> A replay of a common socialist hallucination in which they see
> themselves as saviors of the "working" class while they battle the
> "exploiting" class. If they get power they end up exploiting everyone
> as petty dictators. Their views are so "heroic" in their own eyes that
> it could be considered a religious faith, replacing the worship of God
> with the worship of Man-God. Usually accompanied by Wagner's "Also
> Spoke Zarathustra" - Yup, selfless supermen, every one of'm.....
>
RC's "vision" (as he calles it) is something like:- when a baby is born he/she gets
$150k
- when he/she dies all his money and possessions go to the government
This is really impossible, it would require a closed economy like Russia had. In the
world as we know it today it just can't be done.
He still seems to think people who have earned some or a lot of money are stupid.
> --
>
> JLK
> Linux, because it's STABLE, the source code is included, the price is
> right.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Kimoto)
Subject: Re: Help with shutdown script
Date: 31 Jul 1999 03:59:39 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Warren Bell wrote:
> I'm trying to make a shudown script that will halt the system from
> within x windows. What I'm trying to do is open up an xterm to prompt
> for the root password and once the password's typed in will shut down
> the system. Somthing like:
>
> xterm -e su # open xterm with pass prompt
>
> after password is given, while xterm open, execute
>
> /sbin/shutdown -h now
Perhaps something like
#!/bin/sh
exec xterm -T shutdown -e su /sbin/shutdown -h now
--
Paul Kimoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "A.T.Z." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: helping the Third World
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:05:07 +0200
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On june 21 I wrote:
I think I don't understand this. What has it to do with Linux or NT?? Is Linux
for the poor and NT for the rich, if so, why does Mercedes use Linux. Is Mercedes
poor??
It seems I'm not the only one who is wondering what this has to do with the issues
which should be talked about in this NG.
Matt Cole schreef:
> Can I ask why any of this is showing up in comp.os.linux.misc? Or
> comp.os.linux.advocacy? Or gnu.misc.discuss? What does it have to do with any of
> it?
>
> TheFreedomFighter wrote:
>
> > Dick Klutz wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >On 21 Jul 1999 13:56:17 GMT,
> > > >You would seem to have a computer, (unless you are borrowing one) which
> > > >makes you rich compared to 3/4ths of the world, so you will be sending most of
> > > >your money to deserving families in the 3rd world, yes?
> > >
> > > The problems in the Third World are all caused by overpopulation,
> > > inequality of wealth within the Third World nations, and exploitation
> > > by First World capitalists/governments. How would sending over a few
> > > thousand dollars change anything? It wouldn't, and that's one reason
> > > why only sentimental fools bother.
> >
> > So this is your answer to the question "Are you sharing YOUR wealth?"
> > After all this time, whining and crying about how everyone should have
> > the same "wealth", we find out that you won't share your "wealth" with
> > someone less fortunate than yourself. Does the word "HYPOCRITE" mean
> > anything to you?
> >
> > >
> > > Those "well, why don't you change the world yourself" responses are
> > > sure signs of a witless cretin.
> >
> > Or in plain english, "I'm a HYPOCRITE so I don't bother following my
> > own advice!"
> >
> > --
> > Nonnaho
>
> --
> "So Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
> -- Dark Helmet (Rick Moranis), "Spaceballs"
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<HTML>
On june 21 I wrote:
<BR><I>I think I don't understand this. What has it to do with Linux or
NT?? Is Linux</I>
<BR><I>for the poor and NT for the rich, if so, why does Mercedes use Linux.
Is Mercedes</I>
<BR><I>poor??</I>
<P>It seems I'm not the only one who is wondering what this has to do with
the issues which should be talked about in this NG.
<BR>
<P>Matt Cole schreef:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Can I ask why any of this is showing up in
comp.os.linux.misc?
Or
<BR>comp.os.linux.advocacy? Or gnu.misc.discuss? What does
it have to do with any of
<BR>it?
<P>TheFreedomFighter wrote:
<P>> Dick Klutz wrote:
<BR>> >
<BR>> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<BR>> > Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<BR>> > >On 21 Jul 1999 13:56:17 GMT,
<BR>> > >You would seem to have a computer, (unless you are borrowing one)
which
<BR>> > >makes you rich compared to 3/4ths of the world, so you will be
sending most of
<BR>> > >your money to deserving families in the 3rd world, yes?
<BR>> >
<BR>> > The problems in the Third World are all caused by overpopulation,
<BR>> > inequality of wealth within the Third World nations, and exploitation
<BR>> > by First World capitalists/governments. How would sending over
a few
<BR>> > thousand dollars change anything? It wouldn't, and that's one reason
<BR>> > why only sentimental fools bother.
<BR>>
<BR>> So this is your answer to the question "Are you sharing
YOUR wealth?"
<BR>> After all this time, whining and crying about how everyone
should have
<BR>> the same "wealth", we find out that you won't share your
"wealth" with
<BR>> someone less fortunate than yourself. Does the
word "HYPOCRITE" mean
<BR>> anything to you?
<BR>>
<BR>> >
<BR>> > Those "well, why don't you change the world yourself" responses
are
<BR>> > sure signs of a witless cretin.
<BR>>
<BR>> Or in plain english, "I'm a HYPOCRITE so I don't bother
following my
<BR>> own advice!"
<BR>>
<BR>> --
<BR>> Nonnaho
<P>--
<BR>"So Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph, because
good is dumb."
<BR> -- Dark Helmet (Rick Moranis), "Spaceballs"</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR> </HTML>
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------------------------------
From: "Jose Alcino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux as a dial-up gateway
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:18:36 -0300
Hi, people. This is kind of a basic question, but, as I do not have enough
time to do extensive research, I would like to know if someone here can give
me some basic directions, so I can focus more on studying the problem and
not wasting time reading every kind of document.
I have to setup a linux box to be used as a gateway for many computers using
one dial-up connection, kind of what wingate does on windows. I know it has
something to do with enablilng IP masquerading on the kernel, and maybe IP
forwarding, but I don't know what else I have to do,. I know there's a
program called LinGate, although I still didn't have the time to get and
examine it. Maybe I don't even have to use it, if everything I need is
already on any standard linux distribution (specially RH6, cause that's what
I have in hands at the time).
This will be the only purpose of the machine; there won't be any smb or
netware communication, although windows or netware machines may eventually
communicate through it -- they will do that only at ip (network) level.
Again, sorry for asking that without researching first. I really don't have
the time to. All I ask for is a generic answer of what I have to do, and
where to look for more information.
Thank you all in advance.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.linux.sux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I think of linux.
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:10:36 GMT
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:04:57 GMT, "Brent Davies"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Robert V. Grizzard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:7no5bk$hkn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
<snip>
>> My local Barnes and Noble has copies of that immortal classic,
>> _Linux_For_Dummies_. *Someone* believes Linux is Ready For Prime Time.
>
>Now we are seeing the same type of thing that drives Gates; the Almighty
>Dollar. If "?? for Dummies" can make a buck on it, they will print it.
>Don't think that they only sell books when they think it's for the "greater
>good!"
But that is the point. Someone believes the size of the
beginner (with little unix experience) Linux market is so
large as to support the printing and distribution costs of
their manuals.
If Linux was considered to be only fit for backrooms with
Unix admins in attendance, their audience prediction would
be correspondingly smaller and they would not have gone on
with the project.
Regards
Anthony
--
=========================================
| And when our worlds |
| They fall apart |
| When the walls come tumbling in |
| Though we may deserve it |
| It will be worth it - Depeche Mode |
=========================================
------------------------------
From: DanH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.linux.sux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I think of linux.
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 05:20:18 -0400
Jerry Lynn Kreps wrote:
>
> DanH wrote:
> >
> > Donn Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 30 Jul 1999, alann wrote:
> > >
> > > > You're right, somewhat. I would be curious as to the average age of Linux
> > > > users. I'm 34. First computer I ever had my hands on was a Commodore PET.
> > >
> > > Same here. I can't remeber what year, must have been 1981 or 1982. What
> > > processor did the PET have, and how much memory did it have? It seems
> > > like it was like the 64, with Microsoft Basic built in, embedded like.
> > >
> > > > That was a LONG time ago. Right now there are a gazillion Windows users.
> > >
> > > I'm 30, and started using Linux in 1995. But from 1997 on, I'd been using
> > > FreeBSD almost exclusively. It'd be interesting to have someone take a
> > > survey on a web site. I think a quick guestimation would be that the
> > > average age of FreeBSD users are 10 years greater than those of Linux
> > > users.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting to do a survey, and compare the age of FreeBSD vs.
> > > Linux users, complete with mean and std. deviation.
> >
> > 33 here. Learned to program on a Cray in '78 (it's been downhill ever
> > since). Did the TRS 80 CO-CO, Timex Sinclair, Apple IIe, etc until '91
> > when I got my first PC.
> >
>
> 33 - 21 = 12 !!! You were programing a Cray when you were 12?
That's the one. I asked Dad to take me to work during the summer so I
could see what he did and I found computers. Also learned big whirley
tapes, large drum drives that looked like an extra-long cake cover and
what Star Trek the game looked like when it was written for a text only
screen and was command line driven. Then I found the BASIC code that
wrote the game and decided I wanted more photon torpedos...
Dan
--
UNIX - Not just for vestal virgins anymore
Linux - Choice of a GNU generation
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: LUG in LONDON
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:38:19 GMT
Is there a Linux Users Group in London , UK ?
A sedentary life, as I have already said elsewhere, is the real sin against the Holy
Ghost.
-Nietzsche
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: realaudio player w/source code
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:31:19 GMT
Anyone know of a RealAudio player for Linux (or any other OS, if it
comes to that) that includes the source code?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:33:54 -0700
From: "Ryan R. Klems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: growing a RAID-0 linear device (md driver)
Hey-
I'm hoping someone on here might have the answer to this. I
have
several drives in one of my machines (2 13 Gig drives) that I used the
md driver and the raidtools to create a single large device. I recently
got a 20 Gig drive to add to the system and want to add it to the md
device. I've read in various HOWTO's its supposed to be possible, but
the link for patches on how to do it and the utilities necessary are all
stale. I can of course rebuild the whole damn thing, but I don't really
want to transfer all 20 gigs to another machines, format the whole thing
again and move it back. Any suggestions would be appreciated, please
reply to email as well, as the mail server is often flakey and won't let
me read messages (bah)
-Ryan
--
Ryan R. Klems
Software Engineer
Running Start, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.running-start.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gernot Fink)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: PCMCIA setup
Date: 31 Jul 1999 09:01:26 GMT
In article <7nu361$t3t$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"tberd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have a 3Com 10/100 modem card and have successfully installed the module
> for the nic, but I am not sure which /dev/xxx device to use to access the
> ether and modem. Do I use eth0, cua0, etc or are there other devices for
> pcmcia?
Dont use the /dev files for Nertworking
Use the ifconfig and route command for info and setup.
eth[0-..] are the networkdevice.
There are configfiles in /etc/pcmcia wich will do this settings
automatic on card insert and remove.
>
> Also, I currently use NT to configure routers. Is there a way to configure
> linux to use the serial port as a com port so that I may use it for a
> console connection?
>
Use minicom for serial connections.
The devices are /dev/ttyS0 .. /dev/ttyS3.
>
--
MFG Gernot
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: CIA assassinations
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:10:33 GMT
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:47:33 +0200, "A.T.Z."
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>MK schreef:
<snip>
>> I would not count on socialism prevailing again. Socialism is
>> historical anomaly, a kind of population going bonkers on crazy idea
>> like seeking philosophical stone or that tulip craziness in
>> Netherlands in the past.
>
>As far as I remember the "tulip craziness" had nothing to do with
>socialism.
It had everything to do with the short-sightedness and greed
of speculators. There are quite interesting parallels to be
drawn between that and current "Internet" stocks.
>> Marcin Krol
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Reality is something that does not disappear after
>> you cease believing in it - VALIS, Philip K. Dick
>> --------------------------------------------------
--
=========================================
| And when our worlds |
| They fall apart |
| When the walls come tumbling in |
| Though we may deserve it |
| It will be worth it - Depeche Mode |
=========================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.linux.sux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I think of linux.
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:10:34 GMT
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:09:25 -0700, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
<snip>
>Er, 47 (blush) - although I tried Slackware in '95 when I was 45,
>but didn't like it. I suppose I had to mature a little to be ready
>for Linux.
>
>I punched my first deck of cards for an IBM 1602 (1620??) in 1968.
>That's not a PC - it was a mainframe with lots of blinking lights
>and a typewriter console. I miss those blinking lights.
Why don't you make your own? Attach LEDs to the output lines
of your printer port. With the appropriate electronics and a
small daemon, you can make them flash at you.
A project for nostalgia.
>Arthur
Regards
Anthony
--
=========================================
| And when our worlds |
| They fall apart |
| When the walls come tumbling in |
| Though we may deserve it |
| It will be worth it - Depeche Mode |
=========================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: SB PCI 128 Config
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:04:30 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just got a new PCI 128 card for my machine but I'm not sure which
> driver I should use. I left the kernel compiled with the old AWE64
card
> I had to see if that would work to no avail. The linux hardware
> compatibility howto says it's supported but how do I get it working?
> Please help.
>
> P.S. I'm using SuSE 6.1 with kernel 2.2.10
>
look for the ES1370 drivers, due to midi support on the card is Windows
only you won't have any midi, however, everything else works great. I
had a few posts in here about the same thing. I have been told the
card is a ES1371 and ES1370, which I can't figure out. Creative says
the card is a ES3100... so I'm clueless... all I know is Beos luvs the
1371 drivers for it and linux (Caldera OpenLinux2.2) likes the ES1370
(however, no midi support [yet!]).
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: propertarianism
Date: 31 Jul 1999 09:25:08 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Richard Kulisz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: In article <7nqrma$cvk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Joseph T. Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>I agree. My criticism of the current status quo is not that it is too
:>free, but that it is not free enough, especially for those who are not
:>wealthy or well-connected.
: Then why are you a Propertarian? In Propertarianism, the amount of
: liberty you have is directly proportional to the amount of property
: you have.
It's a darn shame you can't carry on a conversation without putting
words in people's mouths.
I believe in liberty and justice for ALL, including those who are
denied both under the current socialist/statist regime.
Of course I also recognize that some folks will never allow others to
live at liberty and peace, without threatening to initiate force or
fraud against them as you have repeatedly done. Which is why even in
a free country we would still need prisons and firing squads. You
would be free, of course, to advocate your brainless ideas in a free
country, but ONLY to the extent that you did not threaten violence
against innocent people. Unfortunately you've already done that.
Meaning that even according to *existing* laws in both Canada and the
U.S., you are a criminal. If I were in charge of things, you would be
held accountable for your crimes. Since I'm not in charge, the best I
can do is to bring them to the attention of those who are, and that I
certainly shall do.
Others will please note that it is Mr. Kulisz' advocacy of violence,
NOT his political views, which are illegal both in his country and in
mine. I believe in freedom of expression. I also believe in
responsibility. One cannot exclude the other.
:>The problem that I and other libertarians face is that it is difficult
:>to encourage people to pursue freedom, either for its own sake or for
: <smirk> It's difficult to encourage people to pursue *YOUR* freedom.
: Why do you think so many people died in revolutions if not for their
: own freedom?
As is true of all libertarians, by definition, I do not believe in
initiating force or fraud. I do however believe in responding to the
initiation of force or fraud by making it physically impossible for
the person or entity doing so to ever do so again.
But to address your question, those who like you pretend to want
freedom only for themselves, or only for their own group, do not truly
understand what freedom is. Since it is so obvious that you do not
understand or value freedom, I do not address it for your sake. I
know it will go completely over your head. I mention it for the
benefit of others who are a little bit more open-minded and sensible
than you have demonstrated yourself to be.
: You can start by changing yourself. Why is it that you accept the
: repression associated with "ownership" as both nonrmal, inevitable
: and even beneficial?
There is no repression in my owning the fruits of my own labor, risk,
and consensual dealings. Nor is there repression in my spending much
of it, thereby creating jobs and opportunities for many other human
beings, nor is there oppression in my saving and investing much of the
rest, thereby putting the capital which *I* have created to productive
uses such as building factories and homes and Web sites so that many
more people can be gainfully employed.
I do not harm anyone in the act of either earning money, or spending
it, or not spending it. Some people do, and the harm they cause must
be addressed. But I do not, nor do most people.
You are the one who advocates repression by using a so-called
"government" (actually a band of Mafia-like thugs) to steal most of
it, WITHOUT OUR CONSENT, which is what differentiates you even from
most other socialists.
You and other statists control the educational and media systems in
most of the allegedly "civilized" countries in the world and are
therefore able to delude hundreds of millions of decent, but
weak-minded, individuals into granting you more power than you
deserve.
But not only your power, but your very lives, will last only for as
long as the productive among us are willing to overlook your crimes.
When enough of us get sick of your shit, you're outta here. And trust
me, it *will* happen. It always does. I just hope and pray that
innocent people don't end up getting hurt along with lawless fucks like
you. That is always a danger, since it is human nature to under-react
to a threat at first, and then over-react later. But history makes it
extremely clear that your kind, i.e., those who initiate or threaten
to initiate force or fraud against innocent people, MUST be dealt
with, because, as Dr. King said, injustice anywhere is a threat to
justice everywhere.
Now, as for how I shall deal with you. Fortunately for you, I believe
you to be a "man" of all talk and no action. Accordingly, your
threats are probably not worth getting worked up over. I will simply
forward several of your postings to the law enforcement authorities of
Ottawa (and of Carleton U., if they have their own police force), and
request that they take whatever action they deem appropriate. Then, I
shall put you on ignore. You will not need to hear from me again,
unless I learn of some reason to believe that you are capable of
carrying out your threats against me and/or other innocent people. In
which case, you definitely *will* hear from me, and will not like what
you hear.
I strongly suggest that from this point forward you weigh your words
carefully. They will have consequences. If you continue to threaten
to kill innocent people, then you should not be surprised when, sooner
or later, a bunch of those people get together and make sure that you
never get the chance.
Joe
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