Linux-Misc Digest #509, Volume #21 Sun, 22 Aug 99 19:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: WTF is the difference between Linux and FreeBSD??? ("Jordan")
Re: Linux text editor .. (Paul Seelig)
Re: anyone certified? (Tim Moore)
Re: How to open a new browser window ("WME")
can only ftp myself? - still stuck ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
optimizing compilers and the kernel (Jim Shaffer, Jr.)
Re: Soundcard gives PRRRRRRRRR, and I don't want that. (Jim Shaffer, Jr.)
eznet & wvdial (Jon DuBois)
Re: What I think of linux. (Heeeeeeeez back!)
Re: OS Wars (Heeeeeeeez back!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WTF is the difference between Linux and FreeBSD???
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:21:51 -0600
I did a little bit of an overkill on this post, but I saved it so I can post
it to other Newbies wanting to know this info. If you just want to read
about Linux/FreeBSD skim the last few paragraphs but a quick history might
help you understand everything a little bit better.
Here is a bit of quick history of UNIX/Operating Systems
It started back in about 1969 when the huge company AT&T (Bell Labs) wanted
to make an Operating System. Remember, UNIX is really the first OS, not
Windows or Mac. From this point there were really two types of UNIX OS's,
AT&T's System and Berkeley BSD which was developed by the University of
California at Berkeley (UCB). So basically any UNIX system made today
(including FreeBSD and Linux) are based on one of these two systems.
Since the beginning of UNIX both these two variations were being added to
all the time making them better, faster, easier to use, and offering more
programs/utilities/commands. UCB stopped adding to their BSD project in 1994
with the final release of 4.4 BSD. In 1993 Bell Labs sold thier UNIX
division (UNIX System Laboratories) to Novell and in 1995 Novell sold it to
Santa Cruz Operation and Hewlett Packard. The latest version of this UNIX is
called System V (five)
In the 70's and 80's when both BSD and AT&T's System were being developed,
computer makers would sell computers based on one of these two UNIX types.
They would make their own version of UNIX based on one of these two types
(maybe taking pieces from both) and the result would be their own UNIX OS.
These computer systems (usually a network of computers) were very expensive,
and would be sold to universities or businesses usually. At the time OS's
were sold as part of the computer because the PC (and PC clones) and Windows
weren't established. So an operating system was really part of the computer
like it is today with Apple (MacOS) and IBM (OS/2). Here are some of the
popular UNIX versions and the companies who made them:
AIX - IBM
SunOS and Solaris - Sun Microsystems
Ultirix - Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC)
HP-UX - Hewlett Packard
Besides these big companies other people were also trying to make a computer
which was easy to use (and to make money) by making their own operating
system. Apple was really the first to make an OS with a GUI which was easy
to use. And Bill Gates of course came up with Windows which is a pretty
popular OS :) For a little bit of Windows history, IBM, who was a computer
giant, was going to buy Microsoft and Windows to be their OS. But the
business savvy Bill Gates refused to sell the OS, only letting IBM put it on
their computer, allowing Gates to have the Windows OS put on any type of
computer because he owned the rites for it. IBM then decided to make OS/2
and meanwhile Gates becomes the richest man in the world and the computer
giant IBM has gone downhill along with Apple.
Another small UNIX OS called Minix was being developed at a university or
somewhere. It was cheaper than those other UNIX versions and was used at
Universities a lot. Then Linus Torvalds decided he wanted to make a UNIX
(Minix) of his own that would be even better. He started coding along with
other people all over the world and decided to name his OS Linux, obviously
as a combination of Minix and his first name. As you probably know it is
open source (since it is licenesed uner the GNU General Public License)
which means anyone can see the code. So computer people would install Linux,
look at the code, and make improvements to it. If it was an improvement that
Linus wanted the OS to have he would make it part of the OS.
Also, since Linux is licensed under GNU General Public License many Linux
variations or distributions have been made. They all use the Linux kernel
(the main part of the OS that controls programs, memory etc) and have tried
to add other things that make the OS easier to use. Basically they are
adding GUI stuff and other programs/commands to make Linux as easy to use as
Windows while making a little money for themself. I should also mention X.
It is the software that virtually all UNIX OS's use to control windows so
everything isn't done on a command line like Dos was and UNIX used to be.
FreeBSD, on the other hand, is derived from Berkeley BSD. I think it uses
the 4.2 BSD version and has continued to add things from there.
So, both FreeBSD and Linux are types of UNIX. They will contain a lot of the
same programs, utilities, and commands but they will add different things to
their OS, either to the kernel or by making other programs. They will do a
lot of the same things, but they may also be able to do things that the
other one cannot. Also, since they are coded different, each does the same
things in a different way. I'm not experienced enough to tell you which
kernel is better or which OS is better but both are more stable than Windows
9x. UNIX has been an OS that has concentrated on networking a lot, so as far
as stability and speed go, they are more comparable to WindowsNT.
Unlike Windows, FreeBSD and most distributions of Linux will also come with
lots of other programs and software. Also, unlike Windows the software that
controls the windows and the GUI can be changed under FreeBSD and Linux. It
will be controlled by X and what is called a window manager. How your system
looks will depend on what software you have on it not necessarily which OS
you have. So FreeBSD and a Linux distribution can look the same as far as a
Newbie is concerned.
Both FreeBSD and Linux work on PC-compatible (Intel mainly) computers like
Windows does. Some other types of UNIX will work on many different computer
architectures.
To get an application to work on a specific type of computer with a specific
type of OS it has to be ported (re-coded) to work with it. So not all
programs that run under Linux will run under FreeBSD. You would need to get
the FreeBSD ported version of the application. To get Windows programs to
work on either Linux or FreeBSD you would need an emulator like Wine.
Also, while there are many different distributions of Linux there is only
one FreeBSD. All of the applications that have been ported to FreeBSD come
with FreeBSD. But any specific Linux distribution only comes with whatever
programs they want to put in it.
There are many other UNIX OS's besides FreeBSD and Linux that universities
and businesses use. But both FreeBSD and Linux have concentrated on the home
user, trying to make UNIX as easy to use, while being better and faster than
Windows. Linux and FreeBSD are much easier to set up and use than previous
versions of UNIX but neither is quite as easy to use as Windows, yet. Two of
the bigger problems is that FreeBSD and Linux do not support as much
hardware as Windows does and they are not as easy to install and add/remove
programs from.
If you just want a UNIX OS that is an alternative to Windows that might
crash less or just to try out a different OS take a look at RedHat Linux,
Caldera Linux, Mandrake Linux or Corel Linux (it's not out yet).
If you want to learn about UNIX (like the basic commands and utilities,
coding in C, etc) or you like a little bit of an extra challenge try FreeBSD
or Slackware Linux. I would try one of the other Linux distros first though.
But don't expect Linux to be like Windows. Expect to have to read alot more
to understand how to install it and get it to work how you want it to.
Including maybe even configuring things through editing files.
Jordan
Eric Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I ordered the mega-pack of Linux flavors from www.linuxmall.com last
> week. I saw in the pack description that FreeBSD 3.2 was
> included....but it said that it wasn't actually Linux.
>
> I'm confused. It's a unix-type OS just like Linux, right? Granted it
> ISN'T Linux....it wasn't part of Linus' project years back....but it's
> technically almost like Linux, right?
>
> I've tried finding the answers on the 'net but all I found were pages
> that said there was a certain animousity betwenn Linux groups and
> FreeBSD groups (another WTF). I'm lost here.
>
> Can someone explain to me (in layman's terms, so a relative newbie can
> understand).
>
> What are the strengths and weaknesses of FreeBSD compared to Linux
> (any flavor of Linux)?
>
> I'm sure to get some biased opinions but after all, this is a Linux NG
> :o)
>
> Ron
> aka NipponDSM
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Seelig)
Subject: Re: Linux text editor ..
Date: 22 Aug 99 20:37:48 GMT
SkAtAn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I am looking for a text editor under linux (console)
> that looks and works like edit.com (microshaft) ..
> for example pico ..
>
Ahem, "mcedit" from the Midnight Commander has at least a reliable
undo function.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:54:26 -0700
From: Tim Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: anyone certified?
> I'm very interested in studying for Linux certificate exam. I know there is
> ...
Why No Stinkin' Badges?
=======================
Traditionally [since the mid-80's anyway] certification was never asked
or offered in the unix, client/server and workstation spaces. This may
have been influenced by the lack of a 'computer science' degree until
recent times, thus lack of official papers. Even after computer
sciences got their own departments and structures, having a degree was
not a guaranteed admission ticket.
Linux Certification is a good idea if you're new to unix as a beginners
intro, however will not get you any more in the real world than those
cheesy 8-week 'be a computer professional/certified repair technician'
scams. You still need experience under your belt, and people will want
to know what you've worked on rather than a display of paper.
In this respect linux is a good thing given how easy it is to get a $300
'junk' 486, a low-cost ($70 -> free) distribution and get it installed
giving you a functional learning sandbox, including every line of code
that makes it work. Go as deep as you want. Spend another $300 for a
second box to add all the networking/internet components.
Of course this path requires you actually are passionate about leaning
the space and quality time. MSCP programs require cramming and a
collection of $70 books that enable practically anyone to get
certified. If you want to really understand linux, get some old [or
new] machines as above. If you want a diploma, go get certified, then
get the machines anyway.
No one in any unix-related space of any kind will care about your
certification. If they do care, you probably should look elsewhere.
--
timothymoore "Everything is permitted. Nothing is forbidden."
bigfoot WS Burroughs.
com
------------------------------
From: "WME" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How to open a new browser window
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:26:57 -0400
I found another way using frames to solve my problem and the answer is
surprisingly very simple and can be found at this link.
http://sunsite.net.edu.cn/tutorials/se_java2e/15javafi.htm
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.install
Subject: can only ftp myself? - still stuck
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:07:38 -0400
In <37bfcab8$4$qnivfs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/22/99
at 05:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>Hello.
>I've misconfigured something that used to work ok. (I'm going to swear
>off using netcfg!!!)
>When I log on PPP onto the network from my laptop and try to do an ftp to
>my desktop, it somehow only sees the laptop. Somewhere I must have told
>the laptop it has the same identity as my desktop.
Can someone help me here? Somehow I've gotten my laptop convinced it has
the same ip address as my desktop so FTP (over PPP) always loops back to
the laptop. Something is set in some script somewhere but I cannot figure
out where; probably /etc/hosts but I'm reasonably certain I've got those
parameters right.
Where should I look? I'd really appreciate the help.
F.
===========================================================
Felmon John Davis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Union College / Schenectady, NY
- insert standard doxastic disclaimers -
OS/2 - ma kauft koi katz em sack
===========================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Shaffer, Jr.)
Subject: optimizing compilers and the kernel
Date: 22 Aug 1999 17:28:08 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have a Celeron 466 running a heavily-modified Red Hat 5.2 system with
gcc-2.7.2.3 and "egcs-2.90.27 980315 (1.0.2 release)". I tried to compile
kernel version 2.2.11 with gcc, and it works. But when I tried it with egcs, it
oopsed at boot time. I only set the -mpentium flag, having learned long ago not
to use high-numbered -O optimizations on the kernel, not to mention they
increase the compile time tremendously. But I remember compiling other kernels
with egcs with no options other than -mpentium and they worked fine. Does
anyone know for sure what version of pgcc or egcs can safely be used on 2.2.11,
or what flags I could set to get it to work?
--
Williamsport Area Computer Club <http://www.sunlink.net/wacc>
Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2999/svaa.html>
Personal Home Page <http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Shaffer, Jr.)
Subject: Re: Soundcard gives PRRRRRRRRR, and I don't want that.
Date: 22 Aug 1999 17:27:16 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:11:10 +0200, Jordi Backx
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Thanks, it works. I like it when a problem has such a simple answer.
When the sound driver loads, it apparently turns all the inputs up high. I was
glad that Red Hat included a program to save the user's sound settings at
shutdown time and reload them.
--
Williamsport Area Computer Club <http://www.sunlink.net/wacc>
Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2999/svaa.html>
Personal Home Page <http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer>
------------------------------
From: Jon DuBois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: eznet & wvdial
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:30:01 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi everyone!, I was looking at the HOWTO directory, under
$ less /usr/doc/HOWTO/Config-HOWTO is quite a bit of configuration
information. Under, 3.9 Avoid PPProblems is some very clear,straight-
forward, simple(if anything in Linux can be simple) instructions on setting up
PPP. There are two: wvdial and eznet.
I went to the eznet home page and was amazed at how simple the setup
looks.I have not tried it as I just now found it.
After looking on many newsgroups, DejaNews, etc. and seeing how many people
are unnecessarily struggling with trying to get hooked up to the
ISP's and the Internet I thought I would share what I found.
I am new to Linux and I have not had time to look through the many HOWTO's,
although I have looked thru a good many,time allowing.
If either of these programs works the way it says, it will be a godsend!
eznet looks incredibly simple and if it works for many of the distributions,
the folks who put it together should get a GIGANTIC
RaIsE!!
Here are the addresses for eznet and wvdial:
http://www.hwaci.com/sw/eznet http://www.worldvisions.ca/wvdial
There are a few more addresses in /usr/doc/HOWTO/Config-HOWTO, section
3.9 forEzPPP, and for tty-based connections, which require writing the
scripts.
eznet says all you have to have is; name of ISP, a login name, a
password, and a phone number to dial, and eznet does the rest!
The eznet page was last modified 2/24/99 , so it is not too old, but for Linux
maybe a little old.
It also says no configuration files to edit and no chat scripts to design.
WelL! We will SeE!! Won't WE?! I hope these work for everyone and
good luck!!
Jon D.
------------------------------
From: Heeeeeeeez back! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.linux.sux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I think of linux.
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:52:36 +0100
dh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >My first computer was an Acorn A4000 which didn't crash once.
>>
>> have heard of Acorn but don't know what it is.
>>
>> What is it? <G>
>>
>> ---------
>> John
> Acorn were responsible for the BBC Basic computers - ancient, chunky
> text based computers which I have used once or twice.
And of course, the Acorn Electron (Cut down BBC)...
And their predecesor. The Acorn Atom back in '81..
> A quick search, however, has turned up http://www.acorn.co.uk/acorn,
> which shows they're still going strong.
Of course. They've been going for 20+ years....
--
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack|
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |in the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you|
| |can't move, with no hope of rescue. |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc |Consider how lucky you are that life has been |
| in |good to you so far... |
| Computer Science | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.|
==============================================================================
|GCv3.12 GCS>$ d-(dpu) s+/- a C++ US++ P L/L+ E-- W+ N++ o+ K PS+ w-- M+/++ |
|PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ X+/X++ R+ tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e++ h/h+ !r!| Space for hire |
------------------------------
From: Heeeeeeeez back! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS Wars
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:26:24 +0100
Ricardo Malta Cenit AG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Enjoy it :-))
No. I don't think I will... Flame wars would've been more appropriate, cos
that's what arseholes like you are going to get...
Tut tut tut... Spot the windoze user. Any linux user would obviously have
more sense....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc |"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
| in | suck is probably the day they start making |
| Computer Science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |
==============================================================================
|GCv3.12 GCS>$ d-(dpu) s+/- a C++ US++ P L/L+ E-- W+ N++ o+ K PS+ w-- M+/++ |
|PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ X+/X++ R+ tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e++ h/h+ !r!| Space for hire |
==============================================================================
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
