Linux-Misc Digest #447, Volume #24 Fri, 12 May 00 13:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: WANTED: Champion (sergio)
Re: System.map file? (J Bland)
Re: Full difference between ttyS* and cua* devices? (bpb)
mounting hard drives (David Punsalan)
Tracking down init errors (Steve Feil)
GNUware SourceIT! 1.7.0 (Kerry Cox)
Login ("Hawk")
Encounter problem with unix98 ptys (Damon)
Where to find software RAID patches? ("Robert A. Knop Jr.")
Re: Need to find my IP address (Rick Ellis)
Re: German Govt says Microsoft a security risk (Salvador Peralta)
Re: Memory unrecognized (not the >64M problem!) (Sandhitsu R Das)
Re: Need to find my IP address (Rick Ellis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sergio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: WANTED: Champion
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:54:47 +0100
Christopher Browne wrote:
>
> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when sergio would say:
> >Christopher Browne wrote:
> >>
> >> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Sam E. Trenholme would
> >> say:
> >> >>This software is CURRENTLY not open source since the author makes a
> >> >>living writing software
> >> >
> >> >I wish the utmost of success for this software, but I have serious
> >> >reservations about this package thriving.
> >>
> >> I have more than merely "reservations" about the likelihood of it
> >> thriving, and, if the licensing approach remains proprietary, thus
> >> indicating that the producers are gaining from others' contributions,
> >> but not freely contributing themselves, I have some reservations about
> >> the notion of wishing them success.
> >
> >If the source is not open and contributors cannot add to it or change
> >it,
> >how are the producers gaining from others' contributions? In the same
> >way
> >that Visual Basic itself gains by someone writing a Visual Basic program
> >maybe?
> >
> >> >Considering the number of free and public-domain toolkits out there, which
> >> >this list just gives a sampling of, there is a lot of competition out
> >> >there:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/7184/guitool.html
> >> > http://www.free-soft.org/guitool/
> >>
> >> Indeed. The likelihood of a "not open source" GUI framework becoming
> >> the "the native GUI of Linux" is _vanishingly_ small.
> >>
> >> (Actually, it's _impossible_ unless the framework is released under a
> >> license compatible with the GPL, as, to become a truly "native" GUI
> >> for Linux, it would have to be somehow integrated with the Linux
> >> kernel, and such integration would _MANDATE_ using the GPL. Section
> >> 2(b), for any "license lawyers" out there...)
> >
> >By integrated into the kernel are you suggesting that unless the
> >software
> >is tightly bound to the kernel that it cannot work? In which case I
> >refer
> >you to X11 (X Windows system) and the ext2 file system which both seem
> >to
> >work quite well on Linux without needing to be compiled directly into
> >the
> >kernel.
> >
> >Or are you suggesting that if a piece of third party software uses
> >system
> >calls that exist within the kernel, that that software MUST be GPL. If
> >so I hope the likes of Borland, Coral and IBM are reading this.
>
> No, the point is that in order for it to be so strongly associated with
> Linux, it has to be tightly connected to the kernel.
Really? You obviously know my code better than I do. I always thought it
sat on top of the kernel like any other app and dynamically linked to
the
libraries that come with the Linux distribution on which it is running,
something similar to say... X11.
> And for _that_ to happen, it has to link to GPLed code, thus mandating
> licensing under the GPL.
So anything that links to GPLed code has to itself be GPL? Not just code
that is directly compiled into other GPLed code (such as the kernel)? So
how
does VMWare manage to simultaneously be GPL and not open source? Sorry
this
is incorrect. The GPLed code that I link to is not closed off by my app.
My app only links to it at the time of execution, up to that point
anyone
can modify the libraries (the GPLed component). The main restriction on
GPLed code is that you cannot embed it in propritory code so as to make
it
inaccessable or unmodifyable.
> >> The downside to the claim that "not open source" is somehow associated
> >> with "making a living writing software" is that those that are picking
> >> tools are likely to prefer the one that is more available.
> >
> >Could you please clarify this sentence.
>
> Why would I use something with expensive and restrictive licensing
> requirements when there are many options that are less expensive and
> less restrictive?
As you're asking, I would if the products were better and saved me time
and money or provided some form of recreation. So you consider $10
expensive and a commercial license (copyright) preventing you from
giving
away copies of my software as restrictive?
> >> Thus diminishing interest in the "not open source" options, and
> >> outright diminishing the ability of those that are trying to sell
> >> those options to earn their living doing so.
> >
> >Yep, and this one.
> >
> >The only people I currently see making a living on open source software
> >are those that package and sell it (such as Red Hat), those that provide
> >support for it without actually writing it and those that use it as a
> >platform for their existing commercial products such as Coral. How are
> >the original developers or even the subsequent maintainers benefiting
> >financially
> >from any of this?
>
> That may be the only people _YOU_ see making livings. The groups
> that are selling services are largely invisible, as the business
> relationships aren't advertised widely.
So these groups consist of the developers, the owners of the software?
So are you saying that having produced a piece of software which may
have
taken several months and cost maybe tens or hundreds of thousands of $
that the developer then has to sell services based on this work, in
effect
do a lot more work to get anything back AND in the mean time someone
else
can just come along and compete at the service level and cream off the
profits?
How much software have you contributed or are you one of the service
providers?
> >> A more useful approach would be to try to get a group together to get
> >> skilled with the package, and then try to "pitch" it to one of the
> >> major Linux vendors (e.g. - RHAT, LNUX, SuSE, TurboLinux, ...) with a
> >> view to seeing them sponsor further development of it in an "open
> >> source" form.
> >
> >So to be a success I must first give it away, then see if I can get
> >someone to pay me for it? Get real.
>
> You have few useful options.
>
> >> But if Sergio seriously wants to pull people into that process at
> >> _this_ stage, I would suggest that he open up his pocketbook, and
> >> offer some combination of Real $$$, perhaps with an option on
> >> ownership of the enterprise that does that initial development.
> >
> >"_this_" stage? What initial development? The product is in the final
> >stages of testing prior to full release and is really only waiting for
> >the documentation to catch up and a conclusion as to whether or not
> >Linux
> >is a viable commercial platform.
> >
> >> The notion that people will find it a Wise Move to send in $10 per
> >> head to "Sergio Enterprises" seems vanishingly unlikely.
> >
> >No one was suggesting that anyone just send me money. The idea was that
> >they paid a small fee for something that they actually wanted to use.
> >
> >> _That_ kind of licensing cost makes it vastly too expensive to include
> >> with any of the Linux "boxed sets," where it is highly probable that
> >> the vendors make far less than $10 per box.
> >
> >They make less than $10 a box? Their overheads must be intergalactic
> >considering how much they charge the end user and how little is in
> >the box. How many hundreds of millions of dollars is Red Hat currently
> >worth (despite the recent stock upset)? And all for less than $10 a box.
>
> Yes, they very likely make less than $10 per box.
>
> Are you familiar with the way retail sales works?
>
> When that Red Hat "box" sells for $29.95, RHAT doesn't get $29.95 off
> of it; the fact that there are at least three middlecritter organizations
> involved means that they'd be LUCKY if they got $10.
Yes I am very familiar with how retail works. You on the other hand seem
to be blissfully unaware of how much Red Hat is selling its boxes for,
or
you are intessionaly trying to mislead anyone reading your postings.
Anyone interested should go along and have a look at the Red Hat web
site
and see just how much they are charging for some of their boxes. All
based
on open source software. I don't see much of it filtering back to Linus
for his continuing open source efforts.
> >This posting seems to be far more about justifying open source than
> >about
> >whether my product is good or bad for Linux. I am asking for people to
> >independently investigate my products capabilities and to publish their
> >findings to the rest of the Linux community. If this product is as good
> >as
> >I say it is, it can only be a benefit.
> >
> >Just as a mater of interest how much money has Linus received for his
> >continuing open source contribution over the last several years? Does
> >not compare well with Red Hat does it?
> >
Sergio Masci
http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XEBOT
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (J Bland)
Subject: Re: System.map file?
Date: 12 May 2000 15:56:18 GMT
>/boot/System.map is a set of debugging symbols generated from the
>uncompressed kernel image at compile time. It is useful mainly when
>you're debugging a kernel, as the OOPS kernel routine can use System.map
>to spit out a semi-comprehensible error message instead of a raw hex
>dump. The only user-space program that I'm aware of which uses System.map
>is lsof--everything else will not care at all about its presence. Unless
>you're running a development kernel and you want to help track bugs, you
>shouldn't worry about the error messages, but you can get rid of them by
>doing:
>
>cp /usr/src/linux/System.map /boot/System.map
Or you can use make bzlilo instead of bzImage, if you're using LILO. It does
it all for you (a boon if you do a number of recompiles).
PJF
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bpb)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Full difference between ttyS* and cua* devices?
Date: 12 May 2000 16:13:14 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| bpb wrote:
| > Where can I find more detailed information
| > about this (the Serial and Serial-Programming HOWTOs don't
| > go into full detail on the differences).
|
| Ted Ts'o wrote a message to the linux-kernel mailing list:
| http://kernelnotes.org/lnxlists/linux-kernel/lk_9803_02/0814.html
| Is it useful to you?
Thanks Paul! That was the perfect article for what I was seeking.
The code changes are easy enough, I'll just have to add the fcntl()
and other termio flags to get it to work.
Thanks again,
-Brent
------------------------------
From: David Punsalan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.misc
Subject: mounting hard drives
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:12:05 -0500
Hi,
At work, I have a unix account and I also have a desktop computer. My
quota on the unix account is only ~30MB. I constantly have to ftp stuff
back and forth. Is there a way to mount my hard drive or a directory from
my hard drive (from my desktop) onto a mount point in my unix home
directory? I do not have root privileges.
WS FTP works great, but if I could simply "mv" stuff back and forth, that
would be great.
Thanks
-David
------------------------------
From: Steve Feil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tracking down init errors
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:36:48 -0500
I'm trying to track down a problem with my init system. I'm looking
for someone to tell me how to find out which program that init
attempts to start is giving me problems. Once I figure out which
program is the culprit I can re-install that program, change the
parameters of that program, or simply remove the offending program
from the init sequence. This program cases the generation of the
following message to be sent to the console every five minutes...
INIT: Id "5" respawning too fast disabled for 5 minutes
INIT: Id "6" respawning too fast disabled for 5 minutes
The only clues I have to tracking the problem is 'Id "5" ' and
'Id "6"' what do they mean? I have not been able to find any
documentation on init error messages.
Here is some background what I'm tring to do .....
I'm doing a custom install of Redhat 6.1 onto a laptop that does not
have a CD-ROM. My goal is to copy enough RH6.1 via floppies to get
PLIP up and running. I do not plan on putting X on it.
I'm almost ready for PLIP. I can boot from Lilo and get to runlevel 3,
However I get the init error message when I do. If I boot into single
user mode from Lilo I do not get this message.
I'm using the standard RH6.1 /etc/inittab. I installed ntsysv-1.0.7
to see what services get started at runlevel 3. It showed 6 or 7
different ones , I disabled all of them (portmap and cron are two I
remember ). After rebooting with services disabled I still get the
message, unless I boot into single user mode.
PS. I have a fully functional RH6.1 system to reference against.
===================================================================
Steven Feil | Gram-pa, back at the turn of the .~.
Programmer/Developer | century, why did people use an /V\
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | operating system, when they were not // \\
| allowed to see the source code? (X_X)
====================================================================
------------------------------
From: Kerry Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: GNUware SourceIT! 1.7.0
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:40:30 -0600
GNUware SourceIT! version 1.7.0 CD is now available for purchase.
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The GNUware SourceIT! 1.7.0 CDs provides an easy-to-use interface for
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sure to email us.
--
The GNUware Developmental Team
http://www.gnuware.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Hawk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Login
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:47:18 +0800
This is the first time i used Linux os. (Corel).
May i know what should i entered when prompted with login name and password?
Thanks.
------------------------------
From: Damon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Encounter problem with unix98 ptys
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:48:34 +0800
Hi, would appreciate if anyone has seen or got a solution to this
problem. Thanks in advance.
I encountered this problem when trying to open a terminal screen in
GNOME as a user other than root. An error dialog opens and says,
"There has been an error while trying to log in.
If you are using Linux 2.2x with glibc 2.1.x, this is probably
due to incorrectly setup Unix98 ptys.
Please read linux/Documentation/Changes for how to set
them up properly."
I tried to look for this documentations, but without success. I'm using
Gentus Linux distro, that is really very similar to RH6.1, on a ABIT BP6
mobo.
Thank you again
Regards
Damon
------------------------------
From: "Robert A. Knop Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Where to find software RAID patches?
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:50:02 -0700
I've found 'em before, but I can't remember where.
Where does one find the latest software RAID patches? These are to
bring software RAID up to 0.90. (At least, it was version 0.90 last
time I checked.) The thing which claims to be the latest version of the
software RAID howto (which is newer and very different from the HOWTO
found in most standard places) suggests that all patches and tools are
the ftp.??.kernel.org sites, but this isn't true. I can't even find the
patch for 2.2.14 that I somehow found before. (Right now, I'm looking
for a patch for 2.2.15.)
-Rob (who'se Bazaar Headache increases every day)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rick Ellis)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need to find my IP address
Date: 12 May 2000 16:56:33 GMT
In article <VLSQ4.1239$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
smylie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The only way i've been able to do it so far is by calling system("ifconfig
>ppp0"), and then parsing the result to get the ip. This however strikes me
>as a particularly inelegant and round-about solution.
>there must be a better way.
>any ideas anyone?
Get it from /proc instead. You could also look at the source to
ifconfig and see how it is getting the information.
--
http://www.fnet.net/~ellis/photo/linux.html
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: German Govt says Microsoft a security risk
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:03:17 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John Hasler wrote:
> What makes you think I want "church taxes" collected for anyone, any time,
> anywhere?
At issue here is that the german government won't do business with a
company because of its supposed ties to a religious sect. This
discussion of taxes is a red herring. If the discussion is about taxes
then it is not about discrimination and the failure of democracy in
germany to provide equal protection under the law. And no, this problem
is not particular to germany. It is a problem in the united states and
an even bigger problem in most of the rest of the world.
> > And btw, Scientology's desperate and tasteless propaganda efforts in this
> > matter seem to underline what critics accuse them of,
What propaganda? The German government apparently won't do business
with any company that is in any way linked to scientology. That is
discrimination. It is not equal protection for all citizens under the
law, it is singling out a group and alienating them from the social and
political process. I don't care what country you come from, that is
flat out antithetical to the interests of democracy. Whether the
scientologists are tasteless or not, democratic government should not
single out groups to persecute. Especially not germany.
--
Salvador Peralta
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.la-online.com
------------------------------
From: Sandhitsu R Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Memory unrecognized (not the >64M problem!)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:02:15 -0400
On Fri, 12 May 2000, Sven Bovin wrote:
> > I have an old Packard Bell Legend 220CD machine with 486DX2 running at
> > 66MHz. I have two RAM slots in which I currently put two 12M modules. It
> > seems the second slot module is always recognized as max. 4MB. Do I have
> > to tweak anuything to have its full amount recognized (even the BIOS
> > recognizes 4MB only).
>
> Looks like the infamous `memory hole at 15/16 MB' in my
> Award BIOS. Is there any such thing in your BIOS setup ?
> If so, try switching that off.
>
I don't think I have any such thing. I was wondering if I have to set any
jumpers or something like that to make it recognize more memory.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rick Ellis)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Need to find my IP address
Date: 12 May 2000 17:06:13 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I would think that finding the address(es) of a specific interface should
>be a simple task. The need is certainly common, judging by the amount of
>bandwidth wasted by news posts every other week asking how to do it.
I doubt that the need is really common. The perception of the need
is though.
--
http://www.fnet.net/~ellis/photo/linux.html
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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