Linux-Misc Digest #511, Volume #24 Thu, 18 May 00 08:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Wanted: Advice for using gcc (Andreas Kahari)
Re: how to change the default Window Manager in RedHat6.2 (Marc Ducellier)
Re: average load of > 1 and 97% idle time??? (Geoff Short)
Mouse problem (Raj)
Re: Redhat6.2 Network bug ?? (Anders Larsen)
Re: Error: no space left on device ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Mouse problem (Patricia)
VNC only runs under root ("Alan Murphy")
Re: routing question.... (Steve)
Re: Mail setup question (Steve)
Re: Running a Program (Steve)
Re: Useful tip (Steve)
Re: WYSIWYG web page generator (Lee Sau Dan)
Re: DNS Doesn't want to work ("Peet Grobler")
Re: VNC only runs under root (Richard Horton)
Re: Int LS-120? (muzh)
'nother Q : make process start under another ID ("Peet Grobler")
Splitting Linux partition ("Peet Grobler")
Re: WYSIWYG web page generator (Lee Sau Dan)
Re: another netscape question... nameservice? (Frank Boehme)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Miquel van Smoorenburg)
Re: Motif release to Open Source Community leads to Open Motif Everywhere (phil hunt)
Re: WYSIWYG web page generator (Mark Wilden)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Andreas Kahari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Wanted: Advice for using gcc
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:57:45 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Thomas Hommel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi there
> I�m relatively new to Linux programming, so i`m looking for some info
on
> the GNU tools (gcc, ld, make ...). Can anybody point to some good
sites,
> books, etc. where to start?
>
There's HTML manuals online on the GNU site at
<URL:http://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html>.
You may also browse "info documents" in Emacs, I think the right key
combination is "C-h i" ('control-h' and then 'i'), or simply give the
command "info gcc" or "info make" etc. in an 'xterm'.
/A
--
# Andreas K�h�ri, <URL:http://hello.to/andkaha/>.
# All junk email is reported to the appropriate authorities.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Marc Ducellier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: how to change the default Window Manager in RedHat6.2
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:01:46 +0200
Have you already tried the command switchdesk ?
Richard Dubrawski wrote:
>
> Stijn Decneut wrote:
>
> > hi,
> >
> > I can't change the default window manager my RedHat chooses at login.
> > Currently it goes for Gnome, but I'd like fvwm or kde.... which I now
> > have to manually choose from the 'session' pull-down menu everytime I
> > log in.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Stijn
>
> I am assuming that you are using gdm as your login manager since that is
> the default. The documentation indicates that if you have no preferred
> window manager set in the .gnome/gdm file, then it uses the window
> manager linked to the default. As far as I can tell this is not the
> case. It appears to always run gnome. By following the trail of
> execution, I have discovered that what really happens is that gdm calls
> the Xsession file in /etc/X11/xdm and executes it. Xsession then checks
> to see if it was called with any arguments indicating what window
> manager to run. Since the Default under /etc/X11/gdm/Session runs
> Xsession with no arguments, Xsession simply tries to execute your
> .xsession file in your home directory. If you only want to configure
> your own login, create a .xsession file in your home directory and put
> the line :
> exec <your window manager start program>
> in it, and make the file executable (chmod +x .xsession)
> If you want to make the default login for everyone to be something else,
> the edit the /etc/X11/xinit/Xclients file and specify the preferred
> window manager. This will only be used if the user has no .xsession or
> .Xclients file.
>
> --
> Richard Dubrawski
>
> University of Illinois
> Urbana-Champaign
>
> (web page: http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~dubrawsk/)
--
Marc Ducellier CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research)
EP division, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
Phone: +41 22 76-71113, Fax: +41 22 76-78350
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Geoff Short <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: average load of > 1 and 97% idle time???
Date: 18 May 2000 09:29:03 GMT
Alexander Loehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: I've got a machine running Samba, Apache and Squid for routing.
: Sometimes the machine displays a load avergae of > 1 (up to 1.66)
: although the idle time is about 97%. I don't understand this.
Idle time refers to CPU, load average is the whole system. Your
processes are probably waiting for disk i/o. If you've not got
enough memory then the system might be swapping too much as well.
Geoff
--
============================================================================
Ever sit and watch ants? They're always busy with Geoff Short
something, never stop for a moment. I just [EMAIL PROTECTED]
can't identify with that kind of work ethic. http://kipper.york.ac.uk/~geoff
------------------------------
From: Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mouse problem
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:55:44 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi there,
I had recently installed WinLinux 2000 on my machine but I am facing a
problem with my mouse.
I have a 3-button Logitech Mouse , but how do I make Winlinux recognize
it?
When I start WinLinux, I can enter my username & password but after
entering the KDE mode, when I move the mouse nothing happens (it's a
feel one get's when Windows hangs), it remains in the middle of the
screen (just freezes).
What should I do?
(Is there anything I need to change for my mouse settings from WinLinux
configuration Utility?)
Please help.
Raj.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Anders Larsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: tw.bbs.comp.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Redhat6.2 Network bug ??
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:47:34 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> My 3com office connect 10/100 switch is auto-negotiable.
> My Dlink 10/100 switch is a N-way negotiable.
>
> Both of them fail to pick up the packages when using tulip driver (my
> netgears are also with real DEC chip).
>
> I will not do any futher test on the 6.2 anymore. Since I had sent this
> problem to Redhat inc few days ago but they have not reply me yet.
>
> I will use 6.1 and upgrade the kernal instead of using 6.2 until they
> solve the problem.
Your problem is probably with the kernel, though, so you'll get it again...
Somewhere late in the 2.2.x cycle, the tulip driver forked because of
problems with different versions of the tulip chip.
Did you try both versions of the driver (CONFIG_DEC_ELCP and
CONFIG_DEC_ELCP_OLD) ?
--
cheers
Anders Larsen
e-mail: alarsen AT baumerident DOT com
Q: What does the CE in Windows CE stand for?
A: Caveat Emptor
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Error: no space left on device
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:15:33 GMT
> >Recently my installation of RedHat has been producing the error:
> > no space left on device
> >when I'm trying to gzip files etc
> >df and df -i show lots of room
>
> Two suggestions:
> * You may have quotas
'quota -v' shows
Disk quotas for user myusername (uid 500): none
Lots of room on the drives, no quota (THAT'S not the problem is it?)
> * Run 'strace gzip -9 foo' and see what it is trying to do when it
> gives you the 'no space left on device' error.
I don't seem to have strace on my installation 8o(
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Chewie
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Patricia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mouse problem
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:39:15 +0200
On Thu, 18 May 2000, Raj wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>I had recently installed WinLinux 2000 on my machine but I am facing a
>problem with my mouse.
>I have a 3-button Logitech Mouse , but how do I make Winlinux recognize
>it?
>When I start WinLinux, I can enter my username & password but after
>entering the KDE mode, when I move the mouse nothing happens (it's a
>feel one get's when Windows hangs), it remains in the middle of the
>screen (just freezes).
>What should I do?
>
>(Is there anything I need to change for my mouse settings from WinLinux
>configuration Utility?)
>
>Please help.
>
>Raj.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
Raj
try rerunning /usr/sbin/mouseconfig
--
Good Luck
Patricia
ICQ 69588792
http://beginnerslinux.org
http://www.crosswinds.net/~beginnerslinux
Red Hat Linux release 6.0 (Hedwig)
Kernel 2.2.5-15
12:39pm up 2 days, 7:51, 1 user, load average: 1.32, 1.44, 1.33
Thu May 18 12:39:37 CEST 2000
------------------------------
From: "Alan Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: VNC only runs under root
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:17:21 +0100
Hi,
I'm a relative newbie to Linux and am trying to get VNC running.
I've seemingly installed it OK and am able to run sessions satisfactorily
when
logged in as root. However when logged in as a user and I try to run the
vncserver script I get the following error :
/usr/bin/local/vncserver 'No such file or directory'
I've tried all the recommendations in the VNC FAQ at
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/faq.html
but with no success.
Can anybody help any further?????
My system runs Mandrake 7.0, and the version of VNC is 3.3.3r1
######################################################
Alan A Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
######################################################
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve)
Subject: Re: routing question....
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 18 May 2000 12:06:12 GMT
On Tue, 16 May 2000 16:12:33 -0600, Steve Wolfe wrote:
>
> (1) If I simply set the metric of .140 to 1, will that accomplish those
>two goals?
> (2) I couldn't see anywhere in /etc/sysconfig/network or
>/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 to set the metric. Where is the
>appropriate place to configure it at boot?
I don't understand what metric does or is really, but you set it with the
route command eg:
/sbin/route add default [gw gateway] [metric metric]
see the route manpage for the nitty gritty there's quite a bit on metric in
there.
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~sjlen/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
11:22am up 19:27, 3 users, load average: 1.14, 1.03, 1.03
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.is.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Mail setup question
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 18 May 2000 12:06:13 GMT
On Wed, 17 May 2000 20:54:16 +1000, Neil Muller wrote:
>I'm not sure if these are the right groups for this question, if not
>please bear with me and direct me to the correct location.
>
>My question is, I've just set up a small network with a Linux server
>acting as a mail server running sendmail, fetchmail (multidrop mode) and
>imap. Tthe workstations are Win98 and NT4. Mail is being sent and
>received OK but when sending from a workstation Netscape complains
>about not being able to copy the message to the 'Sent' folder. As far
>as I can see 'Sent' folders exist on the server and are writable by the
>user. What am I missing? This problem has only just started and didn't
>seem to happen when fetchmail was running for a single user.
>
>Any help will be appreciated.
As a little test, I'd copy one of the mailboxes to somewhere safe, then
login as the user and try to open the sent mail file as that user in a text
editor and try to save and see what happens.
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~sjlen/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
11:22am up 19:27, 3 users, load average: 1.14, 1.03, 1.03
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve)
Subject: Re: Running a Program
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 18 May 2000 12:06:14 GMT
On Wed, 17 May 2000 09:13:00 -0400, Bob@work wrote:
>I am trying to run a perl script to add a user. I login as a non privileged
>user. i.e. username "bob" and run the script. Obviously I can not run the
>script properly as I do not have the permissions to add a user. Can I set
>the script to run as root ?
>
As root do:
# chmod u+s my_perl_script
That should do the trick, but I've never tried it with a perl script and
probably never would try it with something that sets up users or messes
with system databases.
I've run scripts before that take all the information from the normal user
and then when they've got the data and are ready to make the changes the
script asks for the root password, this is a much safer method.
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~sjlen/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
11:22am up 19:27, 3 users, load average: 1.14, 1.03, 1.03
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve)
Subject: Re: Useful tip
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 18 May 2000 12:06:15 GMT
On Wed, 17 May 2000 17:36:15 GMT, Prasanth Kumar wrote:
>I just noticed that you can press [scroll lock] while Linux is booting
>to
>pause the flow of information in case it goes by too fast! Press it
>again
>to resume. I never thought of this before some maybe it will be useful
>to
>others when they are troubleshooting.
Thanks, that one may come in handy when I do my upgrade later this week.
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~sjlen/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
11:22am up 19:27, 3 users, load average: 1.14, 1.03, 1.03
------------------------------
From: Lee Sau Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG web page generator
Date: 18 May 2000 19:05:01 +0800
>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Mark> Displaying information visually can be just as legitimate as
Mark> displaying it via text. For many people, it's easier to fix
Mark> a table, e.g., when you can see a visual representation of
Mark> it, rather than mentally parsing tags.
Visual representation is different from WYSIWYG. The latter means you
see exactly what the final result would be as you do the work. Visual
representation just means using visual effects to present the things
to you.
So, what is a visual representation? It depends on application
domain. For HTML editing, a collapsible tree view reflecting the
**structure** of the HTML page would be much more useful and helpful
than WYSIWYG-ness. Such a view will clearly reveal to you that all
your "paragraphs" are under "sections" and all your "sections" are
under "chapters". Better still, the nodes of the tree should be
clickable, and upon clicking, the editor would jump to the line (or
character) starting that node! I'm not dreaming. Emacs 20.x (x>=4?)
has a speedbar which is exactly that. What Emacs doesn't have is to
move nodes around the tree with drag-and-drop, though.
Mark> There is also the issue of automatic validation present when
Mark> using a WYSIWYG editor.
Automatic validation is possible, and also avaialbe on non-WYSIWYG
editors, e.g. Emacs+PSGML+nsgml. People used to write FORTRAN
programs 2 or 3 decades ago on text-only terminals. And their
programs have to be VALIDATED (and also compiled) before they can run.
So, how do you think such VALIDATION was possible without those type
of WYSIWYG editor that you're talking about?
VALIDATION and a WYSIWYG interface are different and independent
things.
Mark> You can see instantly whether you've
Mark> left off a closing tag.
Emacs's syntax highlighting offers that, too, without being WYSIWYG.
So, WYSIWYG is not a necessary condition for on-the-fly validation.
Mark> To all those who say that WYSIWYG editors are rubbish, I ask
Mark> this: Do you preview your work in a browser, or do you just
Mark> type in tags, run a validator on it, and publish it?
The latter is sufficient for writing papers. Why care about the look?
Isn't the content more important?
--
Lee Sau Dan ���u��(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: "Peet Grobler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: DNS Doesn't want to work
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:07:52 +0200
Nope. Not "to learn". Well, okay, maybe a little bit. The thing is, I got
this home network, that I keep playing with ("to learn"). That's, setting up
NFS, FTP servers, http servers, NIS servers (still gotta do that!), IP
Aliasing, all that stuff. Now, the bloody IP addresses are changing so
often, that I have to keep updating all hosts' /etc/hosts file almost daily.
I got this mechanism currently, where you change everything on one host
(support.home.net), then run a script export_hosts, which puts the file on
different NFS volumes for each host. The remote hosts then checks every 4
hours (via cron) if the file exists there. If it does, it erases its current
file, and load the new one.
DNS just seems so much easier, don't you think?
Cheers,
Peet.
Matt wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>Just want to ask why not use hosts? You prob. gonna say "to learn"
>though...
>
>Matt.
------------------------------
From: Richard Horton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: VNC only runs under root
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:12:38 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 17 May 2000 10:17:21 +0100, "Alan Murphy"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm a relative newbie to Linux and am trying to get VNC running.
>
>I've seemingly installed it OK and am able to run sessions satisfactorily
>when
>logged in as root. However when logged in as a user and I try to run the
>vncserver script I get the following error :
>
> /usr/bin/local/vncserver 'No such file or directory'
>
>I've tried all the recommendations in the VNC FAQ at
>http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/faq.html
>but with no success.
>
>Can anybody help any further?????
[SIG-SNIP]
This might be abit to obvious - so sorry if it is - do an ls -l
/usr/bin/local/vncserver and see if anyone other than root or
root-group has rights to it...
If not try chmod 755 /usr/bin/local/vncserver - you might need to set
the suid bit though... if that is the case ask again.
--
All opinions are my own and are not in any way meant to represent those of my employer.
Richard Horton.
"Users are like bacteria - each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host
finally dies..."
------------------------------
From: muzh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Int LS-120?
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:14:00 +1200
Casey wrote:
>
> How do I mount my Internal LS-120 Drive.I have tried editing the Fstab
> file only I keep getting an error that Says's"No end Character".
>
> Can anyone out there help or could give some pointers?
> Thanks.
>
> --
Here is an extract from my /etc/fstab file, which works fine for me --
# /dev/hda7 swap swap defaults
0 0
/dev/hde5 swap swap defaults 0
0
/dev/hde6 / ext2 defaults 1
1
/dev/hde8 /var ext2 defaults 1
2
/dev/hde9 /opt ext2 defaults 1
2
/dev/hde10 /usr ext2 defaults 1
2
/dev/hde7 /home ext2 defaults 1
2
/dev/hda3 /boot ext2 defaults 1
2
/dev/hde11 /usr/local ext2 defaults 1
2
# /dev/fd0 /floppy auto noauto,user
0 0
none /proc proc defaults 0
0
# End of YaST-generated fstab lines
/dev/scd0 /cdrom iso9660
ro,noauto,user,exec 0 0
/dev/hdb /floppy auto noauto,user 0
0
Note the last entry. This is my ide LS-120 drive. Works both for 1.4M
and 120M media.
--
Never trust a man in a suit --
cll
------------------------------
From: "Peet Grobler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 'nother Q : make process start under another ID
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:13:51 +0200
Hello, this might be a more tough one.
When I switch to runlevel 3 (I think it is), it runs "/etc/rc.d/init.d/nfs
start".
This, off course, is daemons running under the root userid.
How can I make these (or for that matter any other) daemons start under
another userid? e.g. I want sysop to run all nfs processes?
Thanks,
Peet
------------------------------
From: "Peet Grobler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Splitting Linux partition
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:11:56 +0200
Hello.
Here's my setup:
/dev/hda1 425MB linux native
/dev/hda2 22MB linux swap.
I want to split /dev/hda1 into two partitions. But linux is installed on it,
and must not get ill from this exercise.
Any freeware utility that could do this? Possibly from Linux itself?
------------------------------
From: Lee Sau Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG web page generator
Date: 18 May 2000 19:10:45 +0800
>>>>> "Robert" == Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Robert> One of the *original* design goals of HTML was a
Robert> way of describing hypertext that will look *reasonable*
Robert> across a wide range of display hardware and software.
I would say that it was a way of describing *contents* (not
look-and-feel) of a document. As long as a reasonable browser can
understand the contents (e.g. which part is the section heading
(instead of font-size=18, color=red, background=pink, etc.)? which
part is not be emphasized (instead of "bold", "italic")? which parts
constitute a list of items?), it can display it in the "best" way it
is capable of, depending on the capabilities of the display (how many
colors? resolution? large fonts preferred?).
Robert> This means that with proper HTML, What *you* see is NOT
Robert> what *I* get, but I will see something that is a
Robert> reasonable approximation of your design. With *proper*
Robert> HTML, this will hold for better than 99% of the viewers.
Not to mention that some HTTP clients don't *see*: Blind people use
special devices to turn the text into a form they can "read".
Machines (e.g. Search Engines, robots, web-crawlers) simply parse the
text, without understand what "background-color=blue" means.
--
Lee Sau Dan ���u��(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: Frank Boehme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: another netscape question... nameservice?
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:34:02 +0100
Steve wrote:
> >If I'm not connect to internet when I invoke netscape to read
> >a local document, I apparently insists on accessing home.netscape.com,
Yes, netscape follows the ET behavior. It keeps trying to "call home".
> For me that problem went away when I installed apache,
I believe netscape first attempts to connect to localhost, and if that
fails it doesn't know better than trying to tell mommy at
home.netscape.com
> but that's a bit of overkill just to get rid of a popup window.
You could install an http server with less footprint. There are some
very small "fun-http-servers". Those run only on demand (by inetd). Some
are just perl scripts.
Frank
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Miquel van Smoorenburg)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 18 May 2000 11:36:53 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>' Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>'
>' > >KDE isn't free.
>'
>' > uh what? I don't remember paying for KDE...
>'
>' If I remember the analogy correctly, it's free as in "free beer," but
>' not free as in "free speech." Qt is the bottleneck, I believe.
>
>Unless you plan on porting KDE to Windows, KDE is totaly free. It is
>only the Windows version of Qt that requires you to buy a license.
>And even then, you only need it if your program isn't GPL.
What most people don't like about KDE is that if you port your
commercial program to Linux, you'll have to pay for a Qt license.
Now that in itself is not so bad, but it's not fair. KDE is built
on the kernel, X, gcc, you name it - all free. Yet you have to pay
for this tiny Qt component. I'd rather pay Linus a few bucks for the
kernel, since I feel that's a lot fairer.
Mike.
--
Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Motif release to Open Source Community leads to Open Motif Everywhere
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:12:38 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 18 May 2000 00:13:28 GMT, Christopher Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
><http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/faq.html>
>QUESTION:
> Does the Open Group Public License for Motif meet the Open
> Source Guidelines?
>
>ANSWER:
> No. The Open Group Public License for Motif grants rights only
> to use the software on or with operating systems that are
> themselves Open Source programs. In restricting the
> applicability of the license to Open Source platforms this does
> not meet term 8 of the Open Software Definition
> (http://www.opensource.org/osd.html).
Reading between the lines of what they say later on in their FAQ, the
technical people wanted to release it as open source, but the lawyers wouldn't
let them.
Of course, the distinction is rapidly becoming almost irrelevant: the only
closed-source Unix which is likely to remain around is Solaris. The others
(IRIX, AIX, HP-UX) are likely to be abandoned, and their best features
subsumed into Linux.
--
***** Phil Hunt ***** send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] *****
Moore's Law: hardware speed doubles every 18 months
Gates' Law: software speed halves every 18 months
------------------------------
From: Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG web page generator
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:47:27 +0100
Lee Sau Dan wrote:
>
> Visual representation is different from WYSIWYG.
Yes, that's why I said in another message that I thought WYSIWYG was an
unfortunate term, that, however, appears to be here to stay. I'm using
it to (loosely) distinguish between editing visually and editing HTML
tags.
> For HTML editing, a collapsible tree view reflecting the
> **structure** of the HTML page would be much more useful and helpful
> than WYSIWYG-ness. Such a view will clearly reveal to you that all
> your "paragraphs" are under "sections" and all your "sections" are
> under "chapters". Better still, the nodes of the tree should be
> clickable, and upon clicking, the editor would jump to the line (or
> character) starting that node! I'm not dreaming. Emacs 20.x (x>=4?)
> has a speedbar which is exactly that. What Emacs doesn't have is to
> move nodes around the tree with drag-and-drop, though.
I think that's a good feature, and I use it myself. However, I still
think there's a place for using different fonts to represent certain
tags--e.g. showing <strong> text in bold in-line, without seeing the
tag.
> Automatic validation is possible, and also avaialbe on non-WYSIWYG
> editors, e.g. Emacs+PSGML+nsgml. People used to write FORTRAN
> programs 2 or 3 decades ago on text-only terminals. And their
> programs have to be VALIDATED (and also compiled) before they can run.
> So, how do you think such VALIDATION was possible without those type
> of WYSIWYG editor that you're talking about?
I didn't make myself clear. When you enter a <strong> tag and don't
enter a </strong> tag, it's immediately obvious that you need to do so.
It's not as easy when you're just looking at HTML.
> Emacs's syntax highlighting offers that, too, without being WYSIWYG.
> So, WYSIWYG is not a necessary condition for on-the-fly validation.
I didn't say that it was.
> Mark> To all those who say that WYSIWYG editors are rubbish, I ask
> Mark> this: Do you preview your work in a browser, or do you just
> Mark> type in tags, run a validator on it, and publish it?
>
> The latter is sufficient for writing papers. Why care about the look?
> Isn't the content more important?
To those of us who write commercial sites, the look can be _more_
important than the content. However, these concepts are orthogonal. You
can have one with or without the other.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
