Linux-Misc Digest #425, Volume #26 Wed, 29 Nov 00 16:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: loggin everything (Jean-David Beyer)
Re: multiple IDE-adapters (DualIP)
Re: [Behind socks5] Check if a host is up (Sven Mascheck)
Re: Virtual mem exhaust problem? ("ne...")
Re: passwd protect runlevel 1 (Jean-David Beyer)
LILO boot floppy help ("Tony Stocker")
Re: LILO boot floppy help ("Tony Stocker")
Re: Question on user accounts (Jean-David Beyer)
Re: Why PostgreSQL is not that popular as MySQL? (Jean-David Beyer)
Re: ls --color (Stephen Hui)
Re: passwd protect runlevel 1 ("Eric en Jolanda")
Re: How should I install Linux and Win2K (dual boot) ("Jeremy S. Dillon")
Re: loggin everything ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: loggin everything (Jean-David Beyer)
Re: Cross Plstform File Sharing (FyreFiend)
Re: network slow in linux, fast in win... (bill davidsen)
Re: Packer for Linux and Windows (John Hanson)
Rage 128 Problems (Michael Ramirez)
Re: Why PostgreSQL is not that popular as MySQL? (Augusto Cardoso)
Re: Ok, putting money where my mouth is... (Robert Kiesling)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: loggin everything
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:21:35 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In article <902dps$cj5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is there any way to log all (failed and successful) attempts to
> > connect to my linux box (all ports)?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
>
> Yes there is one. I have forgotten the exact file name - it's somewhere
> in /var/log/. Just do a grep on all and look for let's say ftp.
I thought something like /etc/syslog.conf would do it. Presumably,
logging is done with mail, inferred from the following (part of man
syslog.conf):
# The tcp wrapper loggs with mail.info, we display
# all the connections on tty12
#
mail.=info /dev/tty12
I changed the line to say:
# Log all the mail messages in one place.
mail.* /var/log/maillog
but I get nothing.
I went to https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 and asked them to probe my
ports, but nothing went into /var/log/maillog. I went to my other
machine and tried to finger this machine (finger is turned off in
/etc/inetd.conf) and it was rejected. Here, too, no message in
/var/log/maillog. Trying to explore further, I put this into
/etc/hosts.deny:
ALL: ALL : /bin/mail \
-s "%s connection attempt from %c" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<<EOF
Refused access.
EOF
and I get no e-mail when an attempt is rejected.
So this is not a simple thing to do. I am running the right stuff, I
think (from ps):
root 376 1 0 Nov25 ? 00:00:00 inetd
root 1551 1 0 Nov25 ? 00:00:01 syslogd -m 0
root 1562 1 0 Nov25 ? 00:00:00 klogd
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
^^-^^ 1:50pm up 3 days, 21:18, 2 users, load average: 2.19, 2.12, 2.09
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (DualIP)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: multiple IDE-adapters
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:02:01 GMT
On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:51:23 GMT, Miguel De Buf
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>I am putting together a linux server with 6 disks. I plan installing
>two extra IDE-cards (PCI), so I would have 6 IDE controllers.
6 controllers?
Onboard are 2 IDE controllers , capable of hooking up total 4 HDs
You only need one extra standard IDE controller to hookup 6
For each HD on it's own IDE string you need to add 4 controllers
There are boards out there that do hardware raid on IDE disk.
I'd go that way , and check linux support prior to purchase
DualIP
------------------------------
From: Sven Mascheck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Behind socks5] Check if a host is up
Date: 29 Nov 2000 20:31:25 +0100
Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1) "runsocks ping -c 3 $SMTP" will not work, socks doesn't do ICMP?
Correct
> 2) s5ping can go through the proxy, but it will ping forever.
We don't have it anymore, i can't remember...
> 3) I have tried nmap to do ping, but for the same reason as in 1), it
> cannot go through the proxy.
Perhaps better use 'expect' anyway?
You should not only ping the machine but also verify that it's answering
properly on the SMTP port (service up).
Sven
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
From: "ne..." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Virtual mem exhaust problem?
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:32:28 GMT
On Nov 29, 2000 at 13:44, Chet Vora eloquently wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am having Virtual Memory problems while compiling a particular app. I
>keep getting "Virtual memory exhausted" error so I decided to do a
>little investigation about the swap configuration on my RH6.2.
>
>On doing a df -h, I get
>Filesystem Size Used Av %use Mounted on
>/dev/hda6 1.4G .9G blah blah /
>/dev/hda1 19M 2.4M blah blah /boot
>/dev/hda5 1.4G .9G blah blah /home
>
>On doing free,
> total used avlable
>Mem 30M 29M .7M
>Swap: 68M 3.5M 64M
>
>Is the partition named "boot" the swap partition (this m/c was someone
>else's )? If so, why the disparity bet'en the sizes shown by df vs free
>? Or is it that df doen't show the swap partition ? Is a 68M swap size
>right or will I be benefitted by increasing it ?
/boot is when the kernel is stored. This is not the swap partition.
>THis is a 32M RAM,180 MHz Pentium machine. Would also appreciate
>feedback about how to resolve the "Virtual Mem exhaust" problem. I'm
>trying to compile a protocol stack which in turn uses flex and yacc. Any
>pointers will be welcome.
Due to the amount of ram you have, it would seem you need
more swap. The swap initially allocated would have been ok
if you weren't compiling stuff. It more seems you need more
hardware. If you have unformatted space on /dev/hda, I would
format this for swap. Else, if you have a spare harddrive, this
could be used for swap also.
--
Registered Linux User # 125653 (http://counter.li.org)
It is better never to have been born. But who among us has such luck?
One in a million, perhaps.
2:27pm up 10 days, 11 min, 10 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: passwd protect runlevel 1
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:32:55 -0500
Block Iron & Supply Co - CIS wrote (in part):
>
> You can try this also:
> IS YOUR SYSTEM'S FRONT DOOR WIDE OPEN TO INTRUDERS?
> [...]
> 12. When the LILO prompt appears, you'll be asked to type your LILO
> password. Do so, and Linux will start normally.
>
Sure to work, but just one thing: if you forget your Lilo password and
the super-user password, how do you get in? Surely you do not write
them down because that is a serious security violation right there!
Do you open the box, make BIOS forget your password, then reboot into
BIOS setup and enable booting from floppy or CD-ROM? Then enter
run-level 1 and fix /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow as appropriate? Kind-of
rough on the hardware challenged. And the bad guy could do that too.
Remember, we are running Linux here, so we do not boot all that often.
Those of us with poor short and medium term memories have to write a
lot of stuff down already.
It seems to me that anyone dumb enough to break into my house is a
bungling idiot since he should be burgling someplace with more
valuable stuff than I own. Besides, how would the computationally
challenged figure out how to run this machine anyway (Linux-only) when
they cannot even run Windows (if they could, they could make more
money with that than by burgling my house)? If the FBI does it, they
could probably do it easier by sniffing my outgoing email and Usenet
posts. The IRS can get it with a court order.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
^^-^^ 2:20pm up 3 days, 21:48, 2 users, load average: 2.17, 2.09, 2.08
------------------------------
From: "Tony Stocker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: LILO boot floppy help
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:41:26 -0500
All,
I've searched through Deja.com and the online How-to's but I can't find an
answer to my question. I'm hoping someone can please help me out.
I use a floppy disk to boot Linux on my machine, rather than screwing around
with the MBR. I'm beginning to get worried about what would happen if that
floppy is lost or damaged. I want to make a copy of my boot floppy (which I
assume is unique to my system and setup, since it was created after
installing the OS) onto another floppy disk. This way I'll have backup
floppies in case my normal boot floppy dies.
Can someone please tell me what the sequence of commands is for copying my
current boot floppy to my hard drive and then copying the image back on to
another floppy drive? I've experimented with the `dd` command but can't
seem to get it quite right.
I'd really appreciate some help with this! Thanks very much.
-Tony
------------------------------
From: "Tony Stocker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LILO boot floppy help
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:12:50 -0500
All,
Thanks to the person who pointed me to the correct location in the Bootdisk
HOW-TO.
For any future readers of this thread, via Deja, here's the info on how to
make copies of an already existing boot disk using dd:
Insert your current boot floppy into your floppy drive (this is assumed to
be /dev/fd0, change the following command line if different)
Execute the following command line:
dd if=/dev/fd0 of=/somefilename
After that completes, remove the boot floppy and put in a blank floppy drive
(make sure it is not write protected) into the floppy drive.
Execute this command:
dd if=/somefilename of=/dev/fd0
Then, of course, test your new boot floppy. And, in my opinion, if you have
the option store the boot image on another Linux machine in case you ever
need to create a boot disk from that image again (i.e. you lose all your
floppies.)
Thanks again all!
-Tony
Tony Stocker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:903jdv$5md$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> All,
>
> I've searched through Deja.com and the online How-to's but I can't find an
> answer to my question. I'm hoping someone can please help me out.
>
> I use a floppy disk to boot Linux on my machine, rather than screwing
around
> with the MBR. I'm beginning to get worried about what would happen if
that
> floppy is lost or damaged. I want to make a copy of my boot floppy (which
I
> assume is unique to my system and setup, since it was created after
> installing the OS) onto another floppy disk. This way I'll have backup
> floppies in case my normal boot floppy dies.
>
> Can someone please tell me what the sequence of commands is for copying my
> current boot floppy to my hard drive and then copying the image back on to
> another floppy drive? I've experimented with the `dd` command but can't
> seem to get it quite right.
>
> I'd really appreciate some help with this! Thanks very much.
>
> -Tony
>
>
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question on user accounts
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:36:04 -0500
RV wrote:
>
> Hello list:
>
> Is there a way to modify user accounts thru the command line? I would
> like to be able to telnet to my box to change users' groups. Is this
> possible?
Sure if you are good with sed, I guess. But are you sure you want to
monkey around with telnet instead of ssh? Anyone can sniff anything
that goes through there in either direction. You gotta be superuser to
do most anything with /etc/passwd, /etc/group and especially
/etc/shadow, so they can sniff your superuser password. Once they have
that, they own your machine.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
^^-^^ 2:30pm up 3 days, 21:58, 2 users, load average: 2.05, 2.08, 2.08
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why PostgreSQL is not that popular as MySQL?
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:41:34 -0500
Raymond Chui wrote:
>
> I am just start look at PostgreSQL for our Redhat Linux.
> I am wonder why most of people choose MySQL in Linux
> world rather than PostgreSQL? PostgreSQL has 15 years
> history (I never know that before) which is much longer
> than MySQL. Also PostgreSQL supports a lot of things
> which MySQL has not support yet.
The reason I do not use it is that when I needed a dbms for my
machine, I tried it first. This was in mid to late 1998. It did not
work worth a damn. With one release, I could not make views. With
another I could not define primary keys or foreign keys. Its API was
almost SQL (and ALMOST means NOT). I could not wait until they
upgraded it from a hobby student project to a useable product, so I
converted to Informix-SE (which had enough problems of its own), and
then to IBM's DB2 UDB V6.1.
>
> --
> Democracy is not a better way for a solution,
> it is just another way to spread the blames.
Remember the words of the Peanuts philosopher Lucy:
It's not whether you win or lose:
it's how you place the blame!
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
^^-^^ 2:35pm up 3 days, 22:03, 2 users, load average: 2.02, 2.05, 2.07
------------------------------
From: Stephen Hui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ls --color
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:47:39 -0600
I use RedHat 6.2 and Debian, and it works for me to put the alias and
LS_COLORS env variable in my .bash_profile (not .bashrc or .profile).
alias ls='ls --color'
LS_COLORS="di=33;1:ln=36;1:ex=32;1:*~=31;1:*.html=37;1:*.shtml=37;1"
export LS_COLORS
This works from the console and from xterms and other color console
emulators in X.
Hope this helps.
Stephen.
LuisMiguel Figueiredo wrote:
>
> I'm using debian 2.2 and i tried everything to put some colors on ls. The
> only sucess i had was as root. As normal user i have to type
>
> alias ls="ls --color" on the console
>
> i doesn't work on .bashrc nor .profile
>
> and yes i've read and tried everything on the Ls-Colors-HOWTO
>
> maybe someone with a similar problem can help me.
>
> Tanx in advance
>
> +--------------------------------+
> |elmig |
> |http://www.alunos.ipb.pt/~ee3931|
> |Luis.Figueiredo AT pt.bosch.com |
> +--------------------------------+
--
Stephen Hui, ARL:UT, Austin, Texas
Computer Terms: Programmer - A red-eyed, mumbling mammal
capable of conversing with inanimate objects.
------------------------------
From: "Eric en Jolanda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: passwd protect runlevel 1
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:54:03 +0100
> man 8 sulogin
>
> Use sulogin rather than getty for the one (and only) terminal started
> in runlevel 1. This will require /etc/inittab changes.
>
>
This sounds like the one I want.
Thanks.
------------------------------
From: "Jeremy S. Dillon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: How should I install Linux and Win2K (dual boot)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:58:55 GMT
Hi Christopher and others:
I am attempting to use VMware from both WIN2K and LINUX (Mandrake). Both
are installed and working fine on my system (different physical drives) and
I want VMware to run Outlook and maybe a few other win applications.
MY PROBLEM: When I go to run VMware (from windows or linux) it wants to
"install" the guest OS....I don't want to install, I want it to see that I
have the os installed and run it as is.
Is this possible?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: loggin everything
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:58:30 GMT
I use a program called logcheck, along with portsentry. Logcheck filters
your logs for important information, login attempts, failures, attempted
hacks, etc. Then, emails you the results. Available from www.psionic.com
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > In article <902dps$cj5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Is there any way to log all (failed and successful) attempts to
> > > connect to my linux box (all ports)?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > Yes there is one. I have forgotten the exact file name - it's somewhere
> > in /var/log/. Just do a grep on all and look for let's say ftp.
>
> I thought something like /etc/syslog.conf would do it. Presumably,
> logging is done with mail, inferred from the following (part of man
> syslog.conf):
>
> # The tcp wrapper loggs with mail.info, we display
> # all the connections on tty12
> #
> mail.=info /dev/tty12
>
> I changed the line to say:
>
> # Log all the mail messages in one place.
> mail.* /var/log/maillog
>
> but I get nothing.
>
> I went to https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 and asked them to probe my
> ports, but nothing went into /var/log/maillog. I went to my other
> machine and tried to finger this machine (finger is turned off in
> /etc/inetd.conf) and it was rejected. Here, too, no message in
> /var/log/maillog. Trying to explore further, I put this into
> /etc/hosts.deny:
>
> ALL: ALL : /bin/mail \
> -s "%s connection attempt from %c" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <<EOF
> Refused access.
> EOF
>
> and I get no e-mail when an attempt is rejected.
>
> So this is not a simple thing to do. I am running the right stuff, I
> think (from ps):
>
> root 376 1 0 Nov25 ? 00:00:00 inetd
> root 1551 1 0 Nov25 ? 00:00:01 syslogd -m 0
> root 1562 1 0 Nov25 ? 00:00:00 klogd
>
> --
> .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
> /V\ Registered Machine 73926.
> /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
> ^^-^^ 1:50pm up 3 days, 21:18, 2 users, load average: 2.19, 2.12, 2.09
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: loggin everything
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:38:54 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I use a program called logcheck, along with portsentry. Logcheck filters
> your logs for important information, login attempts, failures, attempted
> hacks, etc. Then, emails you the results. Available from www.psionic.com
>
It would not help me: my problem is that I must have something
configured wrongly, because I cannot get the stuff to go into the logs
in the first place.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
^^-^^ 3:35pm up 3 days, 23:03, 2 users, load average: 2.08, 2.11, 2.09
------------------------------
From: FyreFiend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Cross Plstform File Sharing
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:54:31 -0500
Hi Daniel,
Sure! It's not that hard once you can rap you mind around the way
Linux does things (I had a heck of at time at first).
E-mail's the easiest. Linux already comes with sendmail so you just
need to configure sendmail and tell your windows box to send the mail
through the Linux box. POP3 isn't hard once you have the right package
installed and you have a few of them to choose from (popper is a good
one).
For file sharing you'll want to look into samba.
You might want to pick up a few books to help you get through the
basics but be warned, Linux: Free software; expensive books ;->
HTH
On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 04:30:10 -0000, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Is there a way to have Windows 95/98/NT machines log into and use Linux as
>an email, File server, and Firewall Serers??
>
>If there is please let me know I am most interested in how to do this.
>
>Thank you very much,
>
>Daniel
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bill davidsen)
Subject: Re: network slow in linux, fast in win...
Date: 29 Nov 2000 20:54:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| Hmm... No... But... :-)
| Since upgrading all machines on my home lan (4) to the 2.2 kernel
| series I have problems with a laptop using an DLINK 620 pocket
| adapter.
|
| Very slow (about 10% of what it used to be) with ftp and html.
|
| The realy strange thing with it is; if I use an *old* ftp client
| taken from 2.0 series of kernel ftp is fast again.
|
| Pings are fine too. There are no dropped packets or any kind of
| networking errors. It's just dead slow. :-(
|
| The problem is only with said laptop. All other machines (which use
| noname ne2000 cards) are *faster* with the new kernel.
|
| The laptop is fast with older kernels and NT.
| I have played with all networking parameters I could think off, but no
| improvement.
|
| If somebody has an idea how to fix it, please let me know.
I would check two things. First, that /proc/interupts shows the
interupt for the NIC, and second that after running for a while the
count for that irq has gone up in some relation to N x num_packets. I
would be fairly secure in saying that one very common cause of this type
of problem is lost interupts. Check the card with ifconfig and be sure
it isn't getting a bunch of errors, too.
--
bill davidsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CTO, TMR Associates, Inc
Make the rules? I don't make the rules. I don't even FOLLOW the rules!
------------------------------
From: John Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Packer for Linux and Windows
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:01:04 GMT
On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:45:29 +0100, "David Feller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
said:
>>Hi,
>>
>>Does anyone know a good packer that works under Linux and Windows and can be
>>controlled from the command-line?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>David
>>
I think you're SOL. The Packers cant even control the line of
scrimmage let alone the command line:-)
------------------------------
From: Michael Ramirez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Rage 128 Problems
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:20:04 -0500
It's my first post, so don't tear me apart too bad...
I'm trying to enable my AIW 128 for Open GL support under Linux-Mandrake
7.1 . I've tried following the instructions on
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~distclai/rage128-howto.html,
but I still cannot get Mandrake to load the rage128.o module. Has anyone
got OpenGL to work under a rage128,and if so, HOW?
I've included the output of "lsmod", although I'm not sure if it'll be
helpful or not.
Thanks-
Module Size Used by
autofs 9604 1 (autoclean)
tulip 30624 1 (autoclean)
emu10k1 50948 0
soundcore 3748 4 [emu10k1]
nls_iso8859-1 2276 2 (autoclean)
nls_cp437 3784 1 (autoclean)
vfat 11164 1 (autoclean)
fat 32864 1 (autoclean) [vfat]
ide-scsi 8008 1
keybdev 1832 0 (unused)
usbkbd 2292 0 (unused)
input 2880 0 [keybdev usbkbd]
usb-storage 10120 0 (unused)
usbcore 27236 0 [usbkbd usb-storage]
supermount 15112 3 (autoclean)
System: Linux-Mandrake 7.1, 2.2.15 Kernel, All-In-Wonder 128, 448 MB SDRAM, Athlon 750
--
Michael Ramirez
Computer Science/Computer Engineering Student
North Carolina State University
http://rammic.rh.ncsu.edu/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Augusto Cardoso)
Subject: Re: Why PostgreSQL is not that popular as MySQL?
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:02:04 GMT
My experience shows that PostgreSQL (with TCL and PGSQL) tends to very
poor performance when your tables have a few tens of thousands of rows
and you have daily updates (inserts) of a few hundred lines.
My main update program (stock exchange rates) used to spend about 2
minutes each day, it now takes about 25 seconds for the same updates,
under MySQL.
I also experience less problems with versions of the different
components I use.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ok, putting money where my mouth is...
From: Robert Kiesling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:09:23 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark) writes:
> In article <6zSU5.3434$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, the_blur wrote:
> >> No, but that's beside the point here. The point is that criticiszing
> >> a dumb symbol like a penguin or a daemon or whatever has nothing to do
> >> with the OS or its development. It's simply a bunch of greasy-fingered
> >> cretins trying to grab part of the "action."
> >
> >Hi Bob, make sure you mention to the KDE and GNOME GUI teams that you think
> >of them as greasy-fingered cretins.
> >
>
> Err, he didn't say that, that I can see.
>
> If you want to draw penguins, please go ahead.
>
> You'll need to get good support from the linux community to see
> a replacement for the current penguin, however. This approach
> is unlikely to achieve that.
Well, I'm not going to repeat what anyone thought I *might* have said
or meant. If you were to tune into the linux-kernel list, you'd find
so many very talented programmers working there, that a single opinion
is unlikely to change anything. And that's not even including other
projects, like KDE and GNOME (or, GNOME and KDE).
--
Robert Kiesling
Linux FAQ Maintainer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mainmatter.com/linux-faq/toc.html http://www.mainmatter.com/
---
Tired of spam? Please forward messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
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Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
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