Linux-Networking Digest #899, Volume #10 Sun, 18 Apr 99 01:13:52 EDT
Contents:
Re: cannot connect Internet with Linux (ts)
*ifup* troubles... ("Thomas J. Canich")
Ipfwadm & gaming (Tom Elsesser)
Re: Help: NFS permission denied (Glenn Graham)
how to setup conf.modules for 4 ethernet ne2000 cards?
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Beowulf clusters (Bob Jones)
Re: Linux - My honest opinion (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: More info on Wrappers! (Glenn Graham)
ISDN Question (Anthony Ewell)
Subnet question (Anthony Ewell)
Cannot forward to web server (Cedric Wong)
Re: Linux - My honest opinion (Gareth Jones)
sharing netscape bookmark file ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Help accessing network with 3Com 3CXEM556B (Brendan Joseph Lane)
Re: Linux - My honest opinion (Bob Jones)
Re: Linux - My honest opinion (Mark Hahn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: cannot connect Internet with Linux
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:30:09 -0400
I am also new to Linux and just got my ppp working. It appears your machine
is asking the ISP to authenticate themselves. You may want to read this for
more info. This paper worked for me the first time I tried.
http://axion.physics.ubc.ca/ppp-linux.html
Good Luck!
Ruangvith Tantibhaedhyangkul wrote:
> Hi anyone out there,
>
> I'm having (rather serious) problems with Linux. I'm using Caldera's
> OpenLinux 1.3 with KDE 1.0 on Pentium 200, RAM 64 MB and SupraExpress
> 336i on COM3 (which works fine on 'Microsoft' Windows 98), the 2.0.35
> kernel was compiled to support pentium and ppp internally. It can't be
> configured to connect to Internet at all.
>
> First I used kppp (script based), it dialed, logged in, and told me that
> it was 'logging on to network'. But that was that, it stayed put, until
> timed-out.
>
> Here's what happened on script debug window:
>
> ----------start of debugging message----------
> +++ATH
> OK
> ATZ
> OK
> ATDT2718000
> CONNECT 115200Welcome to Asia-Access Internet
> Host: US1
> Port: S6/2
>
> Username: ruangvit
> Password:
> PPP session from (203.145.0.204) to 203.145.3.105 beginning.
> ----------end of debugging message----------
>
> And the corresponding /var/log/messages:
>
> ----------start of /var/log/messages----------
> Apr 10 17:41:39 janbond syslog: ROOT LOGIN ON tty1
> Apr 10 17:42:00 janbond CRON[810]: (root) CMD ([ -x /usr/sbin/cronloop ]
> && /usr/sbin/cronloop Hourly)
> Apr 10 17:45:42 janbond xntpd[643]: synchronized to LOCAL(0), stratum=7
> Apr 10 17:45:42 janbond xntpd[643]: kernel pll status change 89
> Apr 10 17:47:01 janbond kernel: registered device ppp0
> Apr 10 17:47:01 janbond pppd[842]: pppd 2.2.0 started by root, uid 0
> Apr 10 17:47:01 janbond pppd[842]: Using interface ppp0
> Apr 10 17:47:01 janbond pppd[842]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/modem
> Apr 10 17:47:32 janbond pppd[842]: LCP: timeout sending Config-Requests
> Apr 10 17:47:32 janbond pppd[842]: Connection terminated.
> ----------end of /var/log/messages----------
>
> Someone told me to try minicom. I could log in, quited without resetting
> and typed at commnd prompt 'pppd /dev/modem 38400 crtscts modem
> defaultroute'. I also commented out /etc/ppp/options. Here's what
> happened:
>
> ----------start of /var/log/messages----------
> Apr 13 18:25:03 janbond pppd[947]: pppd 2.2.0 started by root, uid 0
> Apr 13 18:25:03 janbond pppd[947]: Using interface ppp0
> Apr 13 18:25:03 janbond pppd[947]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/modem
> Apr 13 18:28:03 janbond pppd[947]: LCP: timeout sending Config-Requests
> Apr 13 18:28:03 janbond pppd[947]: Connection terminated.
> ----------end of /var/log/messages----------
>
> Of course, on interface, it was nothing but quiet.
>
> I tried minicom again, this time using /etc/ppp/options which looked
> like:
>
> ----------start of /etc/ppp/options----------
> -detach
> modem
> lock
> crtscts
> defaultroute
> asyncmap 0
> mtu 552
> mru 552
> lcp-max-configure 60
> ----------end of /etc/ppp/options----------
>
> Here's what happened on the terminal:
>
> ----------start of login terminal----------
> CONNECT 115200
> Welcome to Asia-Access Internet
> Host: US1
> Port: S6/2
>
> Username: ruangvit
> Password:
> PPP session from (203.145.0.204) to 203.145.3.105 beginning.
> ----------end of login terminal----------
>
> I then pppd, which resulted:
>
> ----------start of pppd result----------
> [root@janbond /root]# pppd
> ~�}#�!}!}!} }8}!}$}"(}"}&} } } } }%}& ���}'}"}(}"]}.~~�}#�!}!}!} }} } }
> }%}& ���}'}"}(}"]}.~~�}
> ----------end of pppd result----------
>
> And this is the corresponding /var/log/messages:
>
> ----------start of /var/log/options----------
> Apr 14 11:16:41 janbond pppd[831]: pppd 2.2.0 started by root, uid 0
> Apr 14 11:16:41 janbond pppd[831]: Using interface ppp0
> Apr 14 11:16:41 janbond pppd[831]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyp0
> Apr 14 11:19:41 janbond pppd[831]: LCP: timeout sending Config-Requests
> Apr 14 11:19:41 janbond pppd[831]: Connection terminated.
> Apr 14 11:19:41 janbond pppd[831]: Receive serial link is not 8-bit
> clean:
> Apr 14 11:19:41 janbond pppd[831]: Problem: nothing was received
> Apr 14 11:19:41 janbond pppd[831]: Exit.
> ----------end of /var/log/messages----------
>
> I tried looking up the howto's. Nothing seems to help.
>
> Waiting for your kindly reply.
>
> Ruangvith Tantibhaedhyangkul
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writing from a Microsoft system.
------------------------------
From: "Thomas J. Canich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: *ifup* troubles...
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:00:21 -0400
Hello,
problem: ifup causes the machine to hang (on boot) after invoking
ifconfig
machine: RH5.1 on a 10mbit ethernet (psu,edu)
what i have done: * checked all config files (hosts, network, etc)
* traced through init scripts to ifup
* invoked ifup as root from single user and hung
machine
* wrote spartan script to set up if and route
table
I would however like to solve this problem (for my own satisfaction; I
have lost no functionality). I think that the problem is in ifup, but i
can't think of what may have happened to it (this was *very* random) as I
was not fiddling with the init scripts...
Any thought?
tia
tom
Thomas J. Canich
UIN: 14155862
AIM: fencertom
------------------------------
From: Tom Elsesser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Ipfwadm & gaming
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:57:11 -0400
I have my 2 W95 boxes connected to the net via ipfwadm.I use my the one
box for playing a golf simulator (LS99 by Access), which allows for
head-to-head play with TCP/IP. WHen I connect to another golfer thru the
linux/ipfwadm, the other player cannot see me. I have to hook the modem up
to the W95 box and connect that way. Connecting thru something like Kali
also does not work. Is there a way I can do this so I don't have to move
the modem around? I am attaching my ipfwadm startup file, amybe that will
shed some light. It is basically a copy from Kevin Martin's FAQ.
#!/bin/sh
NAME=$0
case "$1" in
start)
echo -n "Starting IP forwarding support..............."
# flush current settings
/sbin/ipfwadm -O -f
/sbin/ipfwadm -I -f
/sbin/ipfwadm -F -f
# default policy is to deny
/sbin/ipfwadm -F -p deny
# uncomment these if diald ever works ..these keep w95 from triggering
diald
# /sbin/ipfwadm -F -a deny -P tcp -S 0.0.0.0/0 137:139
# /sbin/ipfwadm -F -a deny -P udp -S 0.0.0.0/0 137:139
# masquing services
/sbin/ipfwadm -F -a m -S 192.168.0.1/28 -D 0.0.0.0/0 -P all
/sbin/ipfwadm -F -a m -S 192.168.0.2/28 -D 0.0.0.0/0 -P all
/sbin/ipfwadm -F -a m -S 192.168.0.3/28 -D 0.0.0.0/0 -P all
# /sbin/ipfwadm -F -a m -S 192.168.0.4/28 -D 0.0.0.0/0 -P all
# more betterer modules
# /sbin/insmod ip_masq_raudio
# /sbin/insmod ip_masq_quake
# /sbin/insmod ip_masq_vdolive
echo "Done."
;;
stop)
echo -n "Stopping IP forwarding shit .............."
/sbin/rmmod ip_masq_ftp
/sbin/rmmod ip_masq_irc
# /sbin/rmmod ip_masq_raudio
# /sbin/rmmod ip_masq_quake
# /sbin/rmmod ip_masq_vdolive
echo "Done."
;;
*)
echo "DAMN YOU!!! Usage is : /etc/ppp/masq {start/stop}"
exit 1
;;
esac
exit 0
--
Tom
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*****************************************************
"Perhaps we could build a large wooden badger ...."
Sir Bedivere
*****************************************************
------------------------------
From: Glenn Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help: NFS permission denied
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:03:20 -0700
If you want the other machine to be able to write as root do:
/ machine-ip(rw,no_root_squash)
That'll pretty much open things up pretty wide for you.
Remember to rehup your nfs demon.
I use this little script called exportfs: like so
/usr/sbin/exportfs
#!/bin/sh
killall -HUP /usr/sbin/rpc.mountd
killall -HUP /usr/sbin/rpc.nfsd
echo exported nfs
============================================================
inTEXT Communications
Vancouver BC
On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, matt wrote:
> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:52:35 +0000
> From: matt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
> Subject: Re: Help: NFS permission denied
>
> Darrin Rothe wrote:
> >
> > I am having trouble with not being able to write to NFS mounted
> > filesystems. On the server side, the volume is listed as rw in
> > /etc/exports. I also set the no_root_squash so that I may have root
> > access to the NFS volume.
>
> Did you put the option rw in /etc/exports?
>
> Do you have enough disk space in the directory you are mounting?
>
> Do both the mounted directory and the mount point have the the write
> privelages set for the users that are trying to write?
>
> Maybe you could post the lines in /etc/exports and /etc/fstab that setup
> the mount, It would give us more to work with...
>
> >
> > On the client side, I mount the volume, but I have no write access from
> > either my user account or from root. I have verified that the user
> > accounts uid and gid are identical. Both server and client are
> > relatively default installations of RH 5.2. This is very frustrating.
> > I have tried many things and none have worked.
> >
> > Also, would anayone have any tips for reducing the number of times I
> > have to type in my freaking password. I have two Linux machines on a
> > closed network. Identical accounts on both. I am so sick of:
> >
> > #1 - having to type xhost + in order to run an x program from one
> > machine on the other, as well as from root on the same machine.
> >
> > #2 - typing in username and password when telnetting to other machine.
> > You may suggest using rlogin - you save the username, but then the
> > DISPLAY environment variable is not properly set. This is a ridiculous
> > situation.
> >
> > #3 - having to login telnet as a user, then su'ing. I am familiar with
> > the resoning, and this is a valid concern on a public network, but
> > again, quite sickening and unecessary on a closed one.
> >
> > If anyone can provide some pointers I would be appreciative. In fact,
> > tonight, while troubleshooting this NFS situation, I must have typed my
> > password at least 100 times. My username, at least 30.
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: how to setup conf.modules for 4 ethernet ne2000 cards?
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:30:14 GMT
If i configure 4 ethernet cards with linuxconf i get the following
conf.modules
alias eth0 ne
options ne io=0x300 irq=5
alias eth1 ne
alias eth2 ne
alias eth3 ne
but the options for eth1,eth2,eth3 are obviously different
I think the solution is compile again the kernel, with support for
ne2000 ethernet cards not as module. Then adding options in loadlin or
in /etc/lilo.conf. But i want to avoid this.
Is this possible?
Thanks in advance.
--
Santiago Gonz�lez Herrero
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gij�n - Asturias (SPAIN)
------------------------------
From: Bob Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Beowulf clusters
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:35:31 -0700
Anybody have any experience setting up and maintaining a Beowulf
cluster? I'm attempting one at my school as a project, and I'd like to
have any advice or input that you can give. I currently have 10 486DX2
25MHz machines to use in the cluster; any advice on how I should
properly set them up and all? (I have a slightly working configuration
right now, but I want to incorporate the best ideas and use the best
software and drivers that I can.) Thanks in advance for any advice/help!
_ /
\ /
X
/ \_
/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Linux - My honest opinion
Date: 17 Apr 1999 18:51:09 -0500
In article <O22S2.2175$_a6.68700@paloalto-snr1>,
>We were impressed with the speed of file printing and sharing, plus WEB
>services. That's it.
You don't have more than one PC? Can you buy an extra one for the
jobs you understand now for the price of the alternative commercial
software and move more stuff to it as you learn what is available?
>There is no serious collaboration system available, not
>even serious database. If I am a small company (and I am) there is no appeal
>to my sense to integrate a very limited system.
You can use free PostgreSQL for a database if you are a small
company, using ODBC connections to MS-Windows desktop apps,
or use Oracle.
>Although MS OS' are mediocre to badly limited to exclude NT (and do not go
>there unless you really know to work with NT), they are accessible. When you
>fire up 95/98 9crap, you can navigate within seconds. If you want to win the
>market, you have to win the desktop, if you want to win the desktop it has
>to be user friendly.
Linux doesn't limit you to one style of desktop. Have you looked at
KDE and GNOME?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Glenn Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: More info on Wrappers!
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:07:45 -0700
Example of a wrapper:
I want to deny any host on the outside from connecting to my machine:
I would do the following
/etc/hosts.deny
ALL:ALL
I want to allow ONLY the hosts on my lan to connect to the
machine, while using /etc/hosts.deny to deny everything else
/etc/hosts.allow
ALL:127.0.0.1
ALL:192.168.0.1
ALL:192.168.0.2 ... and so on.
The above is considered a wrapper, as ( man hosts.allow )
it will allow and or deny traffic through your inet demon
according to the ip addresses contained therein.
For more info, look at /etc/inetd.conf for the specific services
concerned.
============================================================
inTEXT Communications
Vancouver BC
On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 05:00:15 GMT
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
> Subject: More info on Wrappers!
>
> Hi all,
>
> Very recently i was asked by a person to use wrappers (TCP, i think)
> to solve my problem, that needed reserving ports on a machine. Many
> tries to understand what "wrappers" are have been failures. If any
> one can help me with some more basic/advanced info. about there things
> called Wrappers!
>
> Thanks a lot, in advance.
>
> Banibrata.
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
>
------------------------------
From: Anthony Ewell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: ISDN Question
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:15:00 -0700
Hi,
Is there a such thing as an internal ISDN adapter that acts as a
network card
or terminal adapter and not a com port?
And, would it be Linux friendly?
Many thanks,
--Tony
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Anthony Ewell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Subnet question
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:11:05 -0700
Hi,
Can I get away with this in (Red Hat 5.2) Linux? And am I making any
errors in my mask, etc.?
Linux Server
Two Kingston KNE100TX ethernet card:
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.240 (FF.FF.FF.F0) for server and
all clients
eth0 address: 192.168.255.1
Client addresses: 192.168.255.2..127
Client default route: 192.168.255.1
eth1 address: 192.168.255.129
Client addresses 192.168.255.130..254
Client default route: 192.168.255.129
Am I correct that only traffic with an address on the other subnet gets
routed?
Will samba melt down under this arrangement?
Many thanks,
--Tony
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Cedric Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Cannot forward to web server
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 04:10:56 GMT
I am trying to use ipfwadm to forward web request to my webserver.
My configuration is:
internet <------>RedHat 5.2 Linux 2.0.36 <--------->WinNT with IIS
eth0 (real static ip) eth1 192.168.2.1 192.168.2.2
WinNT can ping outside only if I do:
ipfwadm -F -f
ipfwadm -F -a m -S 192.168.0.0/16 -D 0.0.0.0/0
ipfwadm -F -a accept -m -S 0.0.0.0/0 -D 192.168.0.0/16
I try the Firewall How-to to forwad web connection to IIS in NT machine
ipfwadm -F -a accept -b -P tcp -S 0.0.0.0/0 1024:65535 -D 192.168.2.2 80
ipfwadm -F -a accept -b -P tcp -S 192.168.2.2 80 -D 0.0.0.0/0 1024:65535
I try to access website using Firewall IP address (eth0 IP) but I cannot
access web page on NT machine. The request is not forwarding to WinNT.
Am I missing something in the configuration. Can someone help me? Thanks
in advance.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gareth Jones)
Subject: Re: Linux - My honest opinion
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:17:52 GMT
"Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>You seem to be implying that Linux is not well docomented.
He also seems to be implying that MS Operating Systems are well
documented. This is not true. Well - there are more books in print
about MS systems than about Linux, but there are important aspects of
NT (for example) that are not documented anywhere.
Gareth
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip
Subject: sharing netscape bookmark file
Date: 17 Apr 1999 22:18:31 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wonkoo Kim)
I've set up a Linux box (RH 5.2) as an IP masquerading firewall server
for my home LAN with 3 PCs (OS/2, Win98) to share Internet access.
Samba is running on the Linux box to share files among the PCs.
(All PCs on the net can access a directory tree on Linux box.)
Is it possible to (simultaneously) share the netscape bookmark file
between some PCs? (but I guess it's not ...) If possible, the
shared bookmark file will be placed in a public data directory in
Linux box that will stay on 24/7 for uninterrupted internet access.
Thanks.
//--------------------------------------------------------------------
// Wonkoo Kim ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brendan Joseph Lane)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Help accessing network with 3Com 3CXEM556B
Date: 17 Apr 1999 16:08:58 -0600
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Help accessing network with 3Com 3CXEM556B
Distribution: world
Organization: Computer Science, University of Calgary
Howdy, all.
I'm having trouble getting my 3Com 3CXEM556B PCMCIA LAN/Modem card to
access its network. The card works under Windows, and seems to be
recognized and set up by Linux, but it's not able to see anything
outside its own IP address. I've reinstalled several times, upgraded
my cardmgr to 3.09, but it still doesn't want to talk to anyone else.
I've been browsing around looking for information, and there's several
problems people have had with this card, but no solutions seem to be
apparent. Is the card just unsupportable? Like I said, it seems to
install correctly and autodetect the connection type, which would
seem to imply that it at least senses the connection, even if it can't
use it...
But I'm way out of my depth here. Can anyone help me?
Brendan Lane
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Bob Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Linux - My honest opinion
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:20:05 -0700
"A. Feiner" wrote:
> This post does not intend to flame in anyway. It's just an honest opinion,
> so do not reply unless it's to the matter. No Gates sucks or Novell is dead
> please.
Ok, I won't flame you for that, then. : )
> We have been testing Linux Redhat 5.2 for the last three months.
Good, it's great for end-users who KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING, and even some who
don't.
> We chose Redhat since it seemed to be the most widely acknowledge by large
> corps like IBM, Dell, etc. (TRUE) This is the 1st point:
> 1. Linux has no place in the business world unless steadily supported by
> these giants. I heard that Compaq is coming out with Alpha for Linux. This
> is a very good start.
You do mean Linux for the Alpha, right? But wait.... it's already out! In your
very same distro, too, as far as I know. Doesn't Redhat make RedHat LiNUX 5.2
for the Alpha?
> 2. Companies like I work for cannot rely on one sharp admin, today here,
> tomorrow there. So if I have the budget, I prefer a recognized,
> well-documented OS, with a solid backbone (Microsoft, Novell, HP-UX etc.).
Well, I hate to tell you this- but if you have a good sysadmin, treat him right
and he won't leave. I think it's called 'common sense'. And besides- a sysadmin
who knows Un*x will, as someone else on this thread said, pick up LiNUX within
an hour. And also, it doesn't take that much to learn it- especially not if you
do have some intelligence. Oh, wait- didn't you know that there are FIVE, count
'em, FIVE LiNUX certification tests? What would your *small* company be doing
hiring a sysadmin who didn't have at least one of them? Explain THAT, if you
will.
> 3. Since we are in the business for living, our management was very
> interested to know whom we call when disaster strikes. We conducted a small
> "failure" test and called Redhat. Pleaseeee. These guys are way over our
> head, and do not really seem to be interested in helping. Tech support
> should always consider the fact that new users are calling. So you really
> should look into support more seriously.
I don't know about you, but I don't have too many problems with tech support- I
prefer to figure things out on my own, and it doesn't usually take that much
time. And if you were REALLY deadset on claiming that LiNUX doesn't have
support, go visit <a href="http://www.linuxhelp.com/>www.linuxhelp.com</a> and
see if you still have problems.
> We were impressed with the speed of file printing and sharing, plus WEB
> services. That's it. There is no serious collaboration system available, not
> even serious database. If I am a small company (and I am) there is no appeal
> to my sense to integrate a very limited system.
WHAT???? LIMITED???? You, sir, are quite out of your mind. Oracle is a VERY good
example of a 'serious database' for your RedHat system; along with plans from
several other companies to bring their database systems to the great OS.
However, if you don't see it that way, and you are still dead set that your
company doesn't need LiNUX, then you DON'T. For the most part, if you don't see
why you need it, then go ahead and be a blind sheep to be led by M$. We don't
need you, thanks anyway.
> End user: this is where Linux sucks big time, and the people who work on it
> need to look at what Microsoft had done to the desktop. They turn it into a
> very accessible thing.
Ok, you have several serious flaws in this section as well- M$ has done no such
thing in turning the desktop into a 'very accessible thing'. If your computer
crashes, and suddenly you get the error "Module EXPLORER.EXE has caused a
segmentation fault in kernel KERNEL32.DLL" followed by a number of
random-seeming memory addresses, and everyone's nightmare, the words "STACK
DUMP", how does that make the desktop 'accessible'??? Explain, please. You make
an insult to the OS without any backup; where's your evidence that the end user
environment sucks? Before you even say "AfterStep", you should take a look
around at <a href="http://www.kde.org/>www.kde.org</a> and download it; however,
if that's too damn technical for you, then go ahead and poke around on the third
CD that came with RedHat 5.2. $500 says that in the X11 directory, you'll find a
KDE directory- all you have to do is install the required libraries (qt and
qt-devel) and then the KDE packages, and you now have the easiest to use, most
impressive desktop environment for LiNUX- at least, the 1.0 version. Sadly, if
you do want to upgrade, guess what? It's back to the downloading section again.
But maybe you're not too incompetent to do that. You... aren't, are you?
> Although MS OS' are mediocre to badly limited to exclude NT (and do not go
> there unless you really know to work with NT), they are accessible. When you
> fire up 95/98 9crap, you can navigate within seconds. If you want to win the
> market, you have to win the desktop, if you want to win the desktop it has
> to be user friendly.
Ok, I have used (extensively) Windoze NT, and I can say that if nothing else, it
doesn't crash as much as it's cousins. That's about the extent of it. However-
would you EVER, seriously, consider running a web server off of NT? How about a
business intranet? Or maybe even a personal computer? Would you want that? Could
you justify the security holes that are so predominant in that excuse for an OS?
And another reference here to the desktop- again, I say KDE. Or, if you don't
like KDE for some reason, why not try GNOME? 1.0 is out now, and it's pretty
impressive as well. At least you have a CHOICE. Freedom to choose. Isn't taht
what being an American is about? And once again; 'When you fire up 95/98 9crap,
you can navigate within seconds' use KDE and change your default runlevel to 5-
WOW now you have a graphical login screen, and to boot- guess what? It logs you
right in, about 10 seconds faster than Windoze. Explain again your reasoning
that LiNUX doesn't cut it?
> Not always the best OS wins. See MAC. It can happen to Linux, unless people
> realize that they need to desert the fancy "we are so special" mode and get
> down to earth. Make it accessible to the corporate end-user, since users
> like to work at home with they have at work. They feel more confident. I
> know it first hand talking to my wife.
Hmmm... maybe the problem isn't that users don't use LiNUX enough- maybe it's
that not enough BUSINESSES have implemented it. My grandmother didn't touch
Windoze in her life til she went to work; once she did, they gave her a copy to
infect her home computer with. Luckily, I talked her out of it. She now uses
LiNUX- with KDE. My GRANDMOTHER can use it. How 'difficult' to use is it then?
Or are you insinuating that my grandma has more technical knowledge than you do?
> Some RPMS and add-ons require so much configurations that it's literally a
> waste of time.
> Remember, in today's world the purpose is expanding, not maintaining.
> Learning curves should be short, information accessible at all times.
> So until then, I will stick to my current OS.
>
Learning curves for LiNUX ARE short- for USERS. However, you have been turned
off to it because you've had to play (unwittingly) system administrator AND
user. The sysadmin's job is infinitely more difficult than the user's- hmmm,
JUST LIKE WITH A CERTAIN OTHER OS. The fact is, sadly, people don't realize the
difference between them. You are a perfect example of this.
> A. Feiner
> Representing only myself.
Good thing, too- otherwise I'd have to have words with your company about your
competency as a human.
(NOTE: This was entirely MEANT to be a flame. I get rather upset when ignorance
rears its ugly head- this was a perfect example of it. If he gets pissed at me,
then so be it. If he learns something and tries out KDE, then maybe he'll
realize that he was wrong. Do I care? Honestly, no. But I do think that somebody
should know ALL of the facts before they go and criticize something which many
people hold dear, without justifiable cause and/or reason.)
_ /
\ /
X
/ \_
/
------------------------------
From: Mark Hahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux - My honest opinion
Date: 17 Apr 1999 19:28:27 GMT
A. Feiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
> So until then, I will stick to my current OS.
good. Linux, so far, as with all Unixes, is far better for toolbuilders than
for extremely-end users, helpless shrink-wrap customers. this is a rather
fundamental issue: should the OS encourage you to do new things, or only
the things that the vendor thought of? the point is that people tend
to think of progress in computers as the same as integration. Unix is,
in some sense, mainly a movement which opposed integration. I can't
really think of any other defining feature, even credo, than that.
my hope is that the people who are working on integration for end-users
keep this in mind, and don't produce the kind of god-aweful unmanagable,
incomprehensible blob that comes out of Redmond.
------------------------------
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