Linux-Networking Digest #489, Volume #11 Fri, 11 Jun 99 00:14:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Dns Problem ("bv")
Re: NSLOOKUP, NAMED, and LOCALHOST ("Mark Swope")
Masquerading (Pieter Dumon)
Windowmaker and NFS /home (MegaSurge)
2nd nic in slackware (Dave Campana)
Re: ISO VT320 emulator with key-bindings for Oracle Forms (Frank da Cruz)
IP Masquerade - can't get it to work for me ("James A. Robertson")
Re: NEED Help on routing and Samba ! HELP HELP!! (M. Buchenrieder)
Re: Linux can't be a big role...???!!!
bogus "mount error: Invalid argument" from smbmount? ("Stephan Beal")
Re: Time corrupted using Samba ("C.E.O.")
ppp (Brian Witowski)
Re: IP Masquerading Problem (Billy Biggs)
Archive Email ("Ken McComas")
Re: script for dynamically updating resolv.conf? (David Efflandt)
Re: Linux can't be a big role...???!!! (Yuki Taga)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "bv" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dns Problem
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:05:13 +0200
Where's my dns? on the win98 machine? or do i have to set up a dns-server in
linux?
Jan Johansson heeft geschreven in bericht <7jofce$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>bv wrote in message <7joerk$1sr3c$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>>I have two computers. One with linux and one with win98. The dns is not
>>working. If i type in linux: ping 195.195.195.195 it works correct, but if
>i
>>type ping MB (195.195.195.195) it says: unknow host. The same with pinging
>>my linux box under win98.
>>How can i fix this?
>
>
>
>Have you actually CONFIGURED a DNS? if not, just add the names / IP's of
all
>machines in the /etc/hosts on linux and the same wherever w98 has its host
>file, and then you have a "poor mans DNS"
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Mark Swope" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NSLOOKUP, NAMED, and LOCALHOST
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:11:53 -0500
It is resolv.conf. I just got carried away while typing this
post. I did find out that by dumping the DNS-Howto and
referring to the Network Admin Guide (NAG 1.0), I've gotten
much further. It still doesn't quite work, but I'll keep plugging
away...
mas
Dann Church wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Not to be anal, but make sure that step 5) is resolv.conf and not
>resolve.conf. Makes a big difference.
>
>--Dann Church
>
>Robert Lynch wrote:
>
>> Mark Swope wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> > I've been trying to follow the DNS-Howto and set up a caching-only
>> > name server.
>> > 1) I can telnet to localhost (127.0.0.1).
>> > 2) I have created /etc/named.conf essentially by cutting it out of
>> > the HOWto.
>> > 3) I've done the same for /var/named/root.hints.
>> > 4) I've created the /var/named/pz/127.0.0 file by cutting from the
>> > Howto and substituting my nameserver name for "ns.linux.bogus."
>> > and my(root) email address for "hostmaster.linux.bogus."
>> > 5) I've got "resolve.conf" set with my domain name (home.net) and
>> > told it that one (of three) nameservers should be 127.0.0.1
>> > 6) "hosts" lists 127.0.0.1 as localhost
>> > 7) "hosts.conf" tells linux to look at hosts, then bind.
>> >
>> > I start up PPP and connect to my isp then start named.
>> >
>> > When I do nslookup I get the following error message:
>> > Can't find server name for address 127.0.0.1: server failed
>> >
>> > then nslookup points to my isp's nameserver.
>> >
>> > What with all the periods here and no periods there, I'm confused
>> > about where to look now. This shouldn't be *this* complicated, but
>> > I need someone to tell me where to start looking.
>> > Any help, please?
>> >
>> > Kindest regards,
>> > mas
>>
>> IMO the important thing pointed out in the HOWTO is to check
>> /var/log/messages, for something like this:
>> -----
>> Jun 8 08:20:25 ravel named[269]: starting. named 8.1.2 Thu Sep 24
>> 02:47:08 EDT 1998
>> ^[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/bs/BUILD/src/bin/named
>> Jun 8 08:20:25 ravel named[269]: master zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa"
>> (IN) loaded (serial 5)
>> Jun 8 08:20:25 ravel named[269]: cache zone "" (IN) loaded (serial 0)
>> Jun 8 08:20:25 ravel named[269]: master zone "world.con" (IN) loaded
>> (serial 199905111)
>> Jun 8 08:20:25 ravel named[269]: master zone "1.16.172.in-addr.arpa"
>> (IN) loaded (serial 199905111)
>> Jun 8 08:20:25 ravel named[269]: listening on [127.0.0.1].53 (lo)
>> Jun 8 08:20:25 ravel named[269]: Forwarding source address is
>> [0.0.0.0].1025
>> Jun 8 08:20:25 ravel named[270]: Ready to answer queries.
>> ----
>> otherwise, something is cuckoo.
>>
>> HTH. Bob L.
>> --
>> Robert Lynch-Berkeley CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://www.best.com/~rmlynch/
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pieter Dumon)
Subject: Masquerading
Date: 10 Jun 1999 12:53:00 GMT
Is it possible to to deny certain protocols with IP masquerading. Eg, I'd
like to be able to telnet and ftp through the gateway, but the gateway
should be used as http proxy.
Pieter
========================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://studwww.rug.ac.be/~pdumon
ICQ : 12428974
=======================================
------------------------------
From: MegaSurge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Windowmaker and NFS /home
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 01:34:58 GMT
I'm having a problem running Windowmaker over and NFS mounted /home.
Every user that has an account setup on the /home which is NFS mounted
has this problem. My root account can use Windowmaker with no problems
and man is it nice, but I really want it for my user accounts.
Basically, I can install it to user account without error and I can even
start it up though two things happen. The version I'm running is
Windowmaker 0.60 on a SuSE 6.1 distro kernel 2.2.9 with latest X11
updates.
The first is that right away I notice that the configure icon for
setting up Windowmaker settings is missing. That in itself is bad. I
have tried to re-install it to the user account (using wmaker.inst) both
with removing the GNUstep directory before-hand and not. Neither of
those attempts made a difference.
The next thing is that when I exit Windowmaker it segfaults. That's it
just crash boom and it's over. Not very good at all. I tried
recompiling the program from scratch and then re-installing to user
accounts after this and again it was to no avail.
I have read through Windowmakers bug tracker and actually found
something that was exactly like my problem. It was listed under
'execution' #186. However, that problem existed with wm version 0.20
which has been a while ago. Strange that it wouldn't be fixed but maybe
not. It may also be a problem with NFS itself but I'm not sure about
that either. I'm more or less an advanced user, definitely not a guru.
:-) Anyway, if anybody has any ideas please let me know...I really like
windowmaker but I need my NFS mounted /home. I know there is a fix
somewhere but I don't know what. Thanks.
--
"If there is a quintessential zone of human privacy it is the mind."
===============================================================================
|MegaSurge |aka PolarBear |
|ICQ#: 2908964 |AOL Messenger Name: megasurg |
|http://www.setec-astronomy.org |PGP Public Key listed on pgp.keys.net|
===============================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Campana)
Subject: 2nd nic in slackware
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 01:43:03 GMT
Hello,
I have decided to give slackware 3.6 a try for an ip_masq box. I have
got both Nic cards to show up during boot.
In RedHat to add the second card I was able to make a copy of
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 to ifcfg-eth1 and all was well.
I can't find the equivalent files in Slackware. Can anyone point/push me in
the right direction?
eth0 is a PCI 3com 10/100 905b
eth1 is a ISA dlink ne2000 card
Thanks in advance
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frank da Cruz)
Crossposted-To: comp.databases.oracle.misc,comp.sys.dec,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: ISO VT320 emulator with key-bindings for Oracle Forms
Date: 10 Jun 1999 14:25:21 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva) wrote:
: In article <7jjshc$ere$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
: Frank da Cruz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: > ...
: > b. Inconsistent among different UNIX platforms and versions (e.g. the
: > APIs differ -- even a simple function like tputs() has practically
: > infinite combinations of return type and argument types, thus preventing
: > any program that uses it from being portable without including hundreds
: > of #ifdefs);
:
: I haven't run into this problem, and I've written and ported an awful lot of
: curses-based code between UNIX systems. Some code did a good job of
: encapsulating the slight differences between implemetations of the termlib
: API, and other code made no attempt to hide system dependencies and just
: scattered ifdefs all over the place. Even otherwise well-written code like
: early versions of Kermit had that problem.
:
tputs() can be void or int. The third argument of tputs(), which is a pointer
to a function to put a character, can be void, int, or char. The argument
to that function can be void or char. Thus there are at least 2 x 3 x 2 = 12
combinations that must be accounted for in any portable code that uses tputs().
Probably more like 30 when you take into account that int or char can be
signed or unsigned. Of course the ugliness is encapsulated, but that doesn't
make any less ugly. I have never understood the force impels UNIX
implementors to change data types of widely used APIs every time they get a
chance.
: > c. Dependent on buggy and/or incomplete databases;
:
: That's something the end-user can fix.
:
If the end-user knows how to. This is a rather obscure and dying art; one
does not rely on end-users to have mastery of it. In these times, end-users
expect software to "just work".
: > d. Offer only an incomplete and sketchy model of any real terminal,
: > not even close to sufficient for defining an accurate emulation;
:
: My vt100 emulator, which used raw termlib, did a better job of vt100
: emulation than most commercial packages. It didn't try and provide
: perfect visuals: double-wide and double-high letters, for example, were
: simply not addressed. But it passed the vt100 torture test.
:
Then it didn't run strictly from termcap/terminfo information; otherwise, it
wouldn't have been a vt100 emulator, it would have been an emulator of every
terminal that had an entry in the database, right? The database only encodes
certain information about a terminal, not all the information needed to make
a fully functional emulator. Such items as report requests and responses,
forms-filling, and blockmode spring to mind.
: > e. Notorious for refusing to work due to library version mismatches;
: > f. Sometimes not available at all.
:
: That's an easy fix. Same solution as B.
:
It's easy if you understand cryptic messages about shared libraries, and
are familiar with the politics regarding curses vs ncurses, libc vs glibc,
competing numbering schemes, etc, and what to do about them.
: >And that in any case, this does not solve the original problem:
: >
: > How do I map Shift-Alt-F7 to such-and-such a function?
: >
: >The answer will still be: "you can't, because the software has no way of
: >knowing that you pressed Shift-Alt-F7".
:
: With a keyboard mapping file that maps escape sequences to symbols that
: the user's interested in.
:
If xmodmap recognizes your keyboard and can see Shift-Alt-F7 as distinct from
other key combinations, then yes, but only for xterm. A separate solution is
required for the console. Remote (non-X) sessions haven't a prayer.
You win some and lose some. UNIX is a general-purpose multiuser operating
system designed originally to be accessed from a terminal, and in fact a
variety of terminals. The idea of a UNIX workstation with its own keyboard
and screen was grafted on later and is still not a good fit.
DOS and Windows, on the other hand, are single-user operating systems designed
to be used ONLY from the built-in keyboard, mouse, and screen, and therefore
include APIs (or direct hardware access) that make terminal emulation possible
in the sense that most people expect. But this is at the expense of
generalized accessibility.
It is hard to explain this to people who expect UNIX to be like Windows.
While it might be possible to write a true terminal emulator for a specific
UNIX variety on specific hardware that runs only in an X window (and in fact
there are numerous examples -- xterm, Xfree86 xterm, the xterm versions from
HP, IBM, and other companies that emulate their own proprietary terminal
types), it is not possible in the general case, due to differences in hardware
(e.g. different keyboards), windowing systems (in the X environment), screen
drivers (in the console environment), APIs, and access methods.
- Frank
------------------------------
From: "James A. Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: IP Masquerade - can't get it to work for me
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:32:59 GMT
This ought to be simple based on my reading of the HowTo pages, but I
haven't been able to get IP masquerade to work. Here's my setup:
RedHat Linux 5.2, kernel version 2.0.36
One ethernet card (Intel EtherPro 100) configured as eth0 connected to a
cable modem with a static IP
Second ethernet card (3c509, eth1) configured to IP address 192.168.1.1
Other machine running winNT 4.0, static IP of 192.168.1.101, Linux box
is his gateway.
After following the directions on the HowTo page I managed to make my
machine completely inaccessible - obviously I'm not following them
correctly. Would someone be so kind as to give me a simple step by step
set of instructions ?
Thanks a lot,
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (M. Buchenrieder)
Subject: Re: NEED Help on routing and Samba ! HELP HELP!!
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:11:34 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco Moor) writes:
[...]
>routing:
>fact: i have 2 win98 workstation and 1 winNT 4.0 Server. 1 zyxel
>router
>prestige where was befor connect in my lan, and everthing worked fine.
>Now I tried to set up an linux box with suse 6.0.
>Linux box haves 2 network cards, the local on is connect over AUI to
>the
>rest of my lan, and the router is connect over a RJ45 to the secound
>card,
>in the linux box.
>Local lan address are :192.168.120.1 to 4
>Linux Box haves xxx.120.002 / subnet 255.255.255.240
>The secound card where is connect to the router haves the adress
>192.168.1.2
>sub 255.255.255.0
>I enabled Ip forwarding in Kernel, without any firewall stuff.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[...]
Unless the router does NAT, this won't work. You'll need
IP masquerading.
Michael
--
Michael Buchenrieder * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.muc.de/~mibu
Lumber Cartel Unit #456 (TINLC) & Official Netscum
Note: If you want me to send you email, don't munge your address.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Linux can't be a big role...???!!!
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:58:30 -0700
On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:16:44 +1200, Ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message ...
>>On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:23:50 +1200, Ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>[deletia]
>>>If I can get a few good racing games on Linux, I can totally dump MS. Once
>a
>>
>>http://blackholesun.com/index.php3
>>
>
>But it's not out NOW !!!
>
>I'm a very impatient bastard, which is why I prefer Linux.
I hear Quake 1&2 are out now in official Linux versions.
(in corporeal stores even, beat out CivCTP methinks)
Then there is our poor man's indie Decent: BFRIS
and our 3rd person horiz scrolling rpm: Hopkins FBI
and that which needs no description: CivCTP
CivCTP runs adequately well on a P200 & S3V btw...
--
bash: the power to toast your registry in style... |||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: "Stephan Beal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: bogus "mount error: Invalid argument" from smbmount?
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:43:33 +0200
I have a slight problem w/ smbmount:
I used to be able to use the following line to mount an NT share on my Linux
machine:
smbmount //pdcweb/webshare /mnt/webshare -C -U sbeal -P [MyPassword] -D
[mydomain]
After upgrading Linux from kernel 2.0.3x to kernel 2.2.x (and all associated
tools), whenever I do this, I get the following error:
----
mount error: Invalid argument
Please look at smbmount's manual page for possible reasons
----
No matter what I pass to smbmount, it always gives that same error. The
format of the command line is exactly as specified in the man page, and it
USED to work. I have tried updating from Samba 2.0.2 to 2.0.4, but same
thing (but Samba 2.0.4's makefile doesn't build smbmount/smbumount for some
reason!).
I can see the server and it's shares using smbclient -L. I can reach the
network just fine, smbfs is compiled in, yada yada yada. It's only smbmount
that fails with a useless error message.
As you can see, this error message is _extremely_ uninformative, and appears
to be completely bogus.
Can someone please give me a hint about what the problem may be?
--
===== Stephan Beal
The opinions expressed in this post may
not reflect those of my employer, my girlfriend,
God, or even myself.
It takes you less time to delete junk mail than it
does for me to remove NOSPAM from your address,
so I will generally not accomodate "remove NOSPAM
from my address to mail me" requests.
------------------------------
Reply-To: "C.E.O." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "C.E.O." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.protocols.smb
Subject: Re: Time corrupted using Samba
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:41:42 -0500
I am seeing the same problem. It all started when upgrading from redhat 5.2
to 6.0.
The timestamps for files touched by samba are all really wrong (i.e.
may-8-1931, etc).
Thomann KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Horst Epp wrote:
>
> > Thomann KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > >Hello everybody,
> > >
> > I use Suse Linux 6.1 combined with an NT 4.0-Server.
> > I can print and mount the directory of the NTserver.
> > The problem is that all file and directory dates seen from Linux on the
> > NT-server are
> > completly nonsense, and alle files I write from Linux to the server get
> > a date that is nonsense
> > seen from NT too.
> > ...
> >
> > Die Zeitzonen in Linux und NT stimmen wahrscheinlich nicht ueberein
> > bzw. sind unsinnig gesetzt.
>
> Das Komische ist, dass Datum/Zeit stimmen, wenn man mit smbclient in den
> NT-Server schaut.
> Nu wenn man mit smbmount das dir mountet, kommt nur Bloedsinn als
Datum/Zeit.
>
> Gruss,
>
> --
> -------------------------------------
> I Karl-Heinz Thomann I
> I Feingeraetebau Tritschler GmbH I
> I Schoenaustrasse 10-12 I
> I D - 79725 Laufenburg I
> I T: 07763 9388 0 I
> I F: 07763 9388 49 I
> -------------------------------------
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Brian Witowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: ppp
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:53:16 -0400
Greetings,
I was originally using xisp to take care of my internet connection. But
since I want to utilize ip masquerade and diald I have to go the the
'conventional' chat method because xisp is mostly binary base program
and has to open in x-windows etc. Anyway, I am having trouble getting
ppp to work the old fashioned way. If I dial up in a terminal program I
never see anything. The other end answers and I never see a thing. I
have no idea what it is expecting. After a few seconds, it
disconnects. How can I find out what it is expecting and where are some
straight forward docs on setting up the scripts etc? I've read the
How-To's and as usual they are laughable. I follow everything to the
letter and it never works. I would really appreciate any help.
Brian
PS Reply direct if possible. Thanks
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Billy Biggs)
Crossposted-To: uw.linux,comp.os.linux,alt.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: IP Masquerading Problem
Date: 9 Jun 1999 15:00:56 GMT
Brian "Scoop" Hanley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: PROBLEM:
:
: My housemate can't get videoconferencing to work properly.
: The outgoing stream seems to have no problems, but the incoming
: stream won't come through. I have yet to confirm that it's not
: a configuration problem with the videoconferencing software,
: although I'm pretty sure this is a networking issue.
I don't know much about Netmeeting or anything, but I happened to
stumble across the following site that seems (at first glance) to
have a free software thing for proxying Netmeeting.
There's a linux download.
http://www.equival.com/phonepatch/index.html
--
Billy Biggs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Ken McComas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Archive Email
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:43:10 -0500
We are using RedHat 5.2 as an internet mail server. Is it possible to
capture a copy of all sent and received email to an administrative mailbox.
Journaling in MSExchange accomplishes the task for intranet email.
Thanks in advance,
Ken McComas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Efflandt)
Subject: Re: script for dynamically updating resolv.conf?
Date: 10 Jun 1999 04:08:21 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:50:55 GMT, Tom Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi!
>I want to connect my Linux to two different ISPs (oh, and maybe a local
>caching ns later...). I want to do this: running a script that magically
>puts a soft link from the provider specific /etc/resolv.conf to the
>'real' one.
I simply cp it with something like this in /etc/ppp/ip-up.local (or just
plain ip-up if not RedHat):
# Swap out resolv.conf based on my IP.
# Sleep makes sure it is done before coming up.
case $4 in
# The office
192.168.*)
cp /etc/resolv.office /etc/resolv.conf
sleep 1;;
# XNet
199.245.*)
cp /etc/resolv.xnet /etc/resolv.conf
sleep 1;;
# CompuServe PPP
216.*)
cp /etc/resolv.cis /etc/resolv.conf
sleep 1;;
esac
Then in /etc/ppp/ip-down.local I simply do this without a case:
cp /etc/resolv.local /etc/resolv.conf
--
David Efflandt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.xnet.com/~efflandt/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Yuki Taga)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Linux can't be a big role...???!!!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:54:00 GMT
On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 03:50:26 GMT, in article
<6CG73.1408$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Jeremiah) wrote:
> MS provides limited support to their customers too... and
>somehow this is enough?
I like Linux, kind of, <g> so now that that's out of the way, the thing is that
M$ users don't *need* that much support, because the OS is fundamentally easier
to configure and learn. That's how M$ gets away with it, and that's not
knocking Linux, that's simply stating an obvious fact. Anyone with just very
basic skills and not any in-depth technical knowledge can install and configure
Windows with just a little trial and error, maybe. Not Linux.
> Upgrading a kernel isn't a simple operation... the "average"
>computer user probably shouldn't do it. Still, it's nice to have the
>option.
Very true -- both counts.
>> Take more simple examples:
>> which is more: people know how to set up a printer under Windows 98, or
>> under Linux?
>
> This is a significant shortcoming of Linux at the moment...
Also very true, however RH seems to have completely conquered this in 6.0.
There was a GUI printer setup during the install that could *not* be any easier
than anything M$ has. Very easy. Very nice. Equal to or better than M$.
>> Which is more: people know how to set up dialup under Win98, or Linux?
>
> Depending upon which tool you use, this can be as easy under Linux
>as it is under Windows...
Unfortunately, it can also be a nightmare. Right now I'm involved in this with
some of the most knowledgeable people on this list (off list) and elsewhere. I
have an ISDN TA/DSU that works unfailingly in NT and Windows, but won't work
predictably with proven scripts in Linux. So this is an area where Linux lags,
and a critical area I would say. I don't know anyone who, once their system is
installed, doesn't want to connect to the Net *first thing*. I don't know what
developers like RH, who won't even support Net connectivity, are thinking
about. I know they think there are too many variables, but that's just the
point. This is where support and standards, and GUI wizards, or some
combination of those things, is needed. This is like Bill Gates almost missing
the Internet in '93-'95. Linux is in danger of doing that right now, IMHO.
> Linux still isn't quite "ready" for the desktop... but it will
>be shortly. In any case, what does this prove about what the future will
>hold? There was a time when Lotus 1-2-3 was the dominant spreadsheet
>and WordPerfect was the dominant word processor. Things change.
I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the desktop until someone figures
out how to hijack it. <g> Linux strengths are also its weaknesses. A group
gets together to design a Window Manager. Halfway through the project they
have a philosophical war and the group divides into two groups, both continuing
the project in completely different ways. Users are met with a barrage of ways
of accomplishing the same task. It takes years and years to understand all the
possibilities and systems, if indeed that can ever be accomplished. Multiply
this by the hundreds or thousands of tools available in Linux, and figure that
the subgroups all eventually keep splitting time after time, and you end up
with this almost impentrable mess. It produces some great software. But it
also produces mass confusion. It's going to be a *long* time before Linux is a
presence on corporate desktops, or even mainstream home users. Red Hat just
failed miserably with 6.0, I will speculate, chosing a beautiful but
half-finished and buggy Window Manager for cosmetic appearance. Rock-solid,
with easy configuration tools, at the expense of being just a bit less cute,
would have been better, I think. Instead, you get Gnome, which is nice, but
when you press the "Start" button, you get a maze of menu selections that would
daunt all but the most seasoned user. "Another Level" menus? "KDE" menus? I
suppose they left off "AfterStep" menus because they simply ran out of desktop
space. <vbg> Really.
>> For corporate use, I absolutely choose Solaris or HP-UX. For personal use, I
>> choose NT. 'cause there rarely are any apps available for Linux. What will
>> you do for Linux if you want to manage your money?
>
> I use Xinvest. I don't bother with "checkbook balancing" programs.
I checked this out. It's a toy compared with professional apps. <g> I mean
really. It's a toy. Balancing a checkbook is about all it's good for.
>> Photoshop for Linux?
>
> GIMP? It might not be good enough for professionals, but it's
>more than adequate for the average home user.
Actually, it's almost good enough for professionals. It's getting to be a very
good program. But . . . and this again is a big Linux problem . . . the group
that developed it has largely finished. Now other people are taking up the
reigns. Who knows the direction? The speed? No one, that's who. And that's
the problem. Professionals can't accept that.
>> Companies with bigger bucks can use unix, with fewer money can use NT.
>> Companies which cannot be afford for both cannot survive. Simple as this.
>
> Puh-leaze. What about companies with little money that need a
>stable OS? Are they going to use NT? Hahahahaha. Seriously, Linux
>entered the corporate world because IT people were given budgets and
>told to make it work... Linux was the cost-effective choice. Your
>"simple as this" is neither simple nor true.
NT is quite stable, thank you. Knocking it will not enhance Linux. NT gets
better every day, just like Linux. Linux was moving faster for a while, but
high growth is easier when you're starting from almost zero.
>> One day, if we say company like ML, GS, or LU use Linux, we can say Linux is
>> beginning to be OK. But I don't think I have chance to see that day.
>
> I guess we shall see, eh?
Yep. <g> Nobody knows the future, for sure. But M$ isn't going anywhere,
that's pretty sure. And Linux isn't either. But how much Linux can eat into
M$'s market remains to be seen. Not too many sysadmins will risk their jobs
recommending a switch to Linux right now. And I don't see that changing
anytime soon. Maybe someday, but probably only after someone hijacks Linux and
puts some consistancy in it. Like I said, Linux' strengths are also its
weaknesses. <g>
Yuki ^_^
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