Linux-Networking Digest #685, Volume #11 Sat, 26 Jun 99 23:13:34 EDT
Contents:
Help configuring Apache cgi scripts (Brian Hall)
Re: Internet Namespace (Benjamin John)
Re: Linux and DSL ("Andrey Smirnov")
Linux to Linux SLOW ?? (Barnaby DiAnni)
Re: Why not C++ (Paul Jackson)
Re: BNC cable length limit (James Knott)
Re: Why not C++ (Peter Samuelson)
Re: Changing default WU-FTPD port (Chris Rankin)
Re: samba and fstab. ("castor")
3c562.... ("Jim Jones, Jr.")
problems with prodigy and linux (Edward Elliott)
REMOTEHOST environment variable (James Knott)
Re: Linux PPP & Leased Line problem ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Strang problem with tcp-ip/pppd/kpppd ("shawn")
Re: Why not C++ (Greg Comeau)
Re: Why not C++ (Greg Comeau)
Re: Strange UUCP chat problem ("Michael Faurot")
Setting Linux up as a proxy server
Re: Why not C++ (Greg Comeau)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brian Hall)
Crossposted-To: comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix
Subject: Help configuring Apache cgi scripts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:32:49 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have got Apache up and running to learn how to run a website. Today, I got
everything working to access it dynamically, since I get my IP via DHCP. I
thought I'd add a page counter to test out CGI stuff. That has failed
miserably, and I can't for the life of me figure out why.
I first tried the Simple Web Counter (swc), and then I tried Poorcount. For
Poorcount, I found RedHat RPMS for it and gracula. Those appear to be
installed correctly; I can execute the poorcount scripts from the command
line. I can't get Apache to do so. I have checked every directory for 755
permissions, and changed the owner of the poorcount scripts to nobody. I am
assuming the problem is with my Apache configuration. I have tried different
options for the cgi-bin directory, to no avail.
>From my httpd.conf:
ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/"
<Directory "/usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/">
Options ExecCGI
AllowOverride None
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Directory>
My website can be accessed by calling up this URL:
http://www.bigfoot.com/~brihall
which will redirect to my machine.
When I call up the webpage, I get this error in the Apache error log:
[Sat Jun 26 17:48:52 1999] [error] (13)Permission denied: exec of
/usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/poorcount/green.gcl failed
[Sat Jun 26 17:48:52 1999] [error] [client 208.234.80.213] Premature end of
script headers: /usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/poorcount/green.gcl
Help would be greatly appreciated!
------------------------------
From: Benjamin John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Internet Namespace
Date: 26 Jun 1999 18:30:13 PDT
HUH ?
Guo Quin wrote:
> Hello.
> Anybody has a name. Should it also be on internet and "FREE".
>
> Kieu
>
> Tore Fjellheim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > This may seem as a simple question for some but...
> >
> > When using the Internet namespace, is it neccessary with an internet
> > connection. Or is it just neccesary to have the correct headerfiles and
> > so on.
> >
> > What is a namespace anyway. Is it just one way of saying the adress is
> > like this and the protocol is this a.s.o.
> >
> > T.F.
> >
------------------------------
From: "Andrey Smirnov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and DSL
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:22:39 -0700
Hello,
Can you include output of ifconfig -a from your Linux machine, also
netstat -rn and IP configuration of your DSL router.
Thank you.
Richi wrote in message ...
>Hi Andrey,
>
>I have tow ethernet cards because one is supposed to be for the LAN and the
>other is to connect the Cisco router. I currently have the router hub
>connected to the hub which is only temporary. I want the router to be
>connected to the Linux machine and use IP masquerading and a firewall.
>
>I cant get the Linux box to work on the internet with DSL.
>
>I am really new at this and have tried everything. I would think with the
>router connected to the eth0 card, I should be able to ping the router at
>10.0.0.1 or .2. But I cat seem to do it. I am a little lost on what to put
>on the routing portion of netcfg.
>
>Thanks for the reply.
>
>Rich
>Andrey Smirnov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:7l377h$rpq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I don't understand the purpose of the second net card. Looks like the
>first
>> card is on the subneted part of the network on which your second card is.
>>
>> But in general what is exactly your problem?
>>
>>
>> Richi wrote in message ...
>> >I have some new info and I will recap some of the old for any newcomers.
>I
>> >still haven't got it to talk yet, but learned some valuable info.
>> >
>> >First the Linux box has two network cards (eth0 and eth1)
>> >
>> >The eth0 card is configured as 192.168.1.1 with a netmask of
>255.255.255.0
>> >The eth1 card is configured as 192.168.1.2 with a netmask of
>> >255.255.255.128
>> >
>> >All other windows machines on the LAN are 192.168.1.X and
255.255.255.128
>> >
>> >The router is set up as defualt. The only items I have entered into the
>> >router are:
>> >set ppp wan0-0 ipcp 0.0.0.0
>> >set ppp wan0-0 dns 0.0.0.0
>> >set ppp restart enabled
>> >set dhcp server enabled
>> >set nat enabled
>> >and login and passwords.
>> >
>> >This is what USWEST has in the book. This setup is currently working
>> plugged
>> >into my hub.
>> >
>> >What I just realized doing a winipcfg in windows was the Cisco 675
router
>> >has the following. I am going to add all info beacuse I am not sur if it
>is
>> >relevent.
>> >
>> >Host name Rich
>> >DNS servers 207.108.32.1 and 204.147.80.5
>> >Node type =broadcast
>> >IP address 10.0.0.2
>> >Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0
>> >Default gateway 10.0.0.1
>> >DHCP server 10.0.0.1
>> >
>> >
>> >I am thinking that this info needs to be entered under routing in
netcfg
>> >
>> >Under router I have :
>> >
>> >default gateway____________
>> >default gateway device__________
>> >
>> >And then if I click add I get
>> >
>> >Device_________________
>> >Network_______________
>> >Netmask_______________
>> >Gateway_______________
>> >
>> >
>> >I tried a few combinations but haven't hit the right one.
>> >
>> >Any help is appreaciated. I hope to get this thing online this weekend.
>> >
>> >Thanks
>> >
>> >Rich
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:47:35 -1000
From: Barnaby DiAnni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux to Linux SLOW ??
Hello,
I have been puzzling over this for a few days
and I was hoping for solution from the group.
Please select a fixed width font to make
sense of this :)
!-----------------------+---------------------
! Cable Modem
! |
! +--------+--------+
! | 10Mbps HUB |
! | Netgear EN104 |
! +--+-----------+--+
! | |
! +----------+ +----------+
! | |
! +----+----+ +-----------------+ +----+----+
! | eth0 | | | | eth0 |
! |Linux Box| | 100Mbps HUB | |Linux Box|
! | eth1 +--+ Netgear DS108 +--+eth1 |
! +---------+ | | +---------+
! +--------+--------+
! |
! +--------+--------+
! | Windows 98 |
! +--------+--------+
!-----------------------+-----------------------
Both Linux Boxes are multihomed.
All eth1 links lights show a 100Mbps connection.
FTP puts and get from Win 98 to both Linux Boxes
are about 2400 Kbytes per second or faster.
FTP puts and gets between the Linux boxes are about
200 Kbytes per second??
RX and TX activity is really on the 100Mbps hub.
Here is a session from Win98 to one of the Linux boxes.
ftp> bin
200 Type set to I.
ftp> get ie5win95.zip
200 PORT command successful.
150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for ie5win95.zip (25654086
bytes).
226 Transfer complete.
ftp: 25654086 bytes received in 10.49Seconds 2445.58Kbytes/sec.
ftp> put ie5win95.zip
200 PORT command successful.
150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for ie5win95.zip.
226 Transfer complete.
ftp: 25654086 bytes sent in 5.82Seconds 4407.92Kbytes/sec.
ftp>
Anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong here?
Thanks,
Barnaby
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Jackson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: 27 Jun 1999 01:50:56 GMT
Nathan Myers wrote:
|> it's slower than (e.g.) C are just spreading FUD.
well, yes and no. Narrowly speaking, yes, give or
take secondary points, such as:
- it gives you more ways to speed things up
- exception handling can impact the calls a little
- the tighter types can help the optimizer a little
- templates and STL can really help some apps
but in some broader sense, there is an increased
risk with C++, as compared to C, that someone not
sufficiently skilled in the art will end up with
slower code, not realizing that the extra features
they are using do have a cost (virtual calls, lots
of nickle and dime mallocs, ...)
Then again, C has an increased risk, compared with
C++, that someone will end up with a slower app
because the lack of explicit support for certain
patterns and techniques led them to doing something
in some inappropriate homebrew fashion.
But my primary point here is that C++ is complex,
like a Boeing 747 cockpit. I've seen some large
scale project pain, when developers tried too hard
to use all that nice new "object oriented" stuff
that was suppost to make life wonderful. The pain
certainly included "too slow", though a bigger
problem was "difficult to maintain and adapt".
Put it this way -- if I could actually try ten
different teams of professional but not superstar
programmers, using different languages to implement
a real world (multi-year, requirements changing
for the life of the project, ...) app, right
now I'd bet that Python team (a delightful language
that I just learning) would produce the fastest
working app (because they'd have time to get the
architecture and algorithms 'right'), and the C++
team would produce one of the slower apps, with
a few key loops going fast, but bogged down in a
slew of other confusions.
--
=======================================================================
I won't rest till it's the best ... Software Production Engineer
Paul Jackson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]) 3x1373 http://sam.engr.sgi.com/pj
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (James Knott)
Subject: Re: BNC cable length limit
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:12:58 -0400
Reply-To: James Knott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
jerzy Kaltenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>thin ethernet - 185 meters, 30 stations
>BNC sucks as chice of medium, everytime you move your computer a bit you may
>have to recrimp connections.
Only if someone did a lousy job of crimping the connectors.
--
E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________________
The above opinions are my own and not those of ISM Corp., a subsidiary of
IBM Canada Ltd.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Samuelson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: 26 Jun 1999 20:52:09 -0500
Reply-To: Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[Ralph Glebe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> I remember one of my first linux projects written in C on a Red Hat
> 5.2 system. I attempted to demo the program on a Red Hat 4.x system.
> It didn't run. Somewhat embarrasing.
Ah, yes, the migration from libc5 to libc6. Considering the *major*
(no pun intended) differences between libc5 and libc6, it's not
surprising that they aren't even *close* to binary-compatible.
Going the other way is much less painful. Most libc6 systems
(including Red Hat 5 & 6) also have libc5 on them, so a Red Hat 4.x
program will run fine. For obvious reasons, the converse is not true.
> Anyway, the egcs. I take it that this is automatically invoked when
> I enter g++. Or do I have to do something special to link egcs to
> the g++ command?
Depends on your distribution. It sounds like you're a Red Hat person,
and I am not, so I don't know. If you want to check, you can just run
`g++ -version'.
Recent Debian releases have made egcs the default `g++', and in the
next release (potato) it will also get to be `gcc'. (The latter was
not reasonable in previous Debian releases due to the use of 2.0.x
kernels.)
--
Peter Samuelson
<sampo.creighton.edu!psamuels>
------------------------------
From: Chris Rankin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Changing default WU-FTPD port
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:27:27 +1000
Thomas Hopson wrote:
> I would like to set the port up on something other than 21. I'm just
> having trouble finding out how to do it with this (WU-FTPD) service.
You mean the "control" port? If you move that away from its public
definition then people will have trouble connecting to you. But anyway:
it should just be a matter of editing /etc/services. Change the 21 to
whatever, and then send the HUP signal to inetd.
$ kill -HUP <<pid of inetd>>
There shouldn't be anything WU-FTPD specific about this.
Chris.
------------------------------
From: "castor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: samba and fstab.
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:55:44 +1000
Thanks Steve, a bit of lateral thinking can work wonders sometimes :) I'll
try that.
-c.
Steve Cowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Castor,
>
> Instead of trying to "pause", you might want to try and redirect stdout
and
> stderr to a file, like:
>
> smbmount bla bla bla >/tmp/smbmount.err 2>&1
>
> This will at least capture all output (stdout and strerr) to the file
> /tmp/smbmount.err for later review. I used this approach to figure out
what was
> happening with "startx" back when I setup my Linux box.
>
> If I understand the rest of your post correctly... you might want to
invoke
> your script under your userid within rc.local, like:
>
> /bin/su -c "/usr/bin/fetchmail" scowles
>
> The above is straight out of my /etc/rc.d/rc.local file (RH6.0). This
invokes
> fetchmail under my userid so that is properly reads my ~/.fetchmailrc
file.
>
> Hope this helps
> Steve Cowles
------------------------------
From: "Jim Jones, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 3c562....
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 02:14:32 GMT
Does anyone know how to enable the 3com ethernet / modem card after the
install is complete?
It used to be in a file in the /etc/rc.d directory and you could just
uncomment the line with the appropriate module to load.
I cannot seem to find that in rh6.
Thanks!!
Jim
I dont even care about the modem if that makes it any easier.
------------------------------
From: Edward Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: problems with prodigy and linux
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:13:26 -0700
I am having trouble establishing a ppp session via prodigy under linux.
The prodigy server prompts me for username and password, then sends
back two responses, "Incorrect Service Type" and "Invalid username/password",
then prompts me for username and password again. I have verfied the
username and password, that isn't the problem. The same thing happens
to me if I try to connect to prodigy manually under windows 98 (with the
terminal window for raw communication with the server), but if I let
windows pass the login info for me the connection goes up just fine.
Has anyone set up linux to work with a prodigy account before, or otherwise
think they can help?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (James Knott)
Subject: REMOTEHOST environment variable
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:51:06 -0400
Reply-To: James Knott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In Redhat 5.2, there was an environment variable called REMOTEHOST,
which contained the name of the computer used to connect a telnet
session. ie If you telnet from a computer called Linux.home, the
REMOTEHOST variable would contain Linux.home. This variable seems to
have disappeared from Redhat 6 and Mandrake 6. Anyone know what
happened to it, how it could be restored, or other means of obtaining
the same info? This variable is used when connecting to a system
using X with the command "export DISPLAY=$REMOTEHOST:0.0". It sure
would be nice to have this work with Redhat or Mandrake 6.
--
E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________________
The above opinions are my own and not those of ISM Corp., a subsidiary of
IBM Canada Ltd.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux PPP & Leased Line problem
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 02:38:13 GMT
In article <7l29ud$v4v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Rob van der Putten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi there
>
> Did you have a look at the leased line mini howto?
>
Yes, I did. In fact, I can connect two Linux boxes via a leased
line easily, but not to a Cisco router. I know some succeed
and some fail with Cisco routers, and unfortunately I am
the one that failed.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: "shawn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Strang problem with tcp-ip/pppd/kpppd
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:02:11 -0600
I have tried through two different methods now and both give me the same
result.
Red hat 5.2 with some updates, in x-windows 3.3.3.1 I believe the number
is, using the fancy network configure tool on the control bar, and settup up
ppp and the proper dns' in the proper spot. I activate the ppp and it
connects the ppp and gets the isp numbers appears to link up the ppp, but
the tcp-ip isn't comminicating, can't ping out can't find a web page on the
net for the life of me on the internet.
When I went to kpppd under kde, it gives me the same result.
Why this is bothering me, is I had this working before I had to rebuild the
system, with blanking the hd, due to other os's crupting partition
boundries.
Any Suggestion would be greatly appreciated
Shawn
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg Comeau)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: 26 Jun 1999 22:54:07 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Andi Kleen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg Comeau) writes:
>
>> In article <7kscsl$s0h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
>writes:
>> >Ralph Glebe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> Are all the programs in C because: [speculation]
>> >
>> >There are quite a lot of C++ projects on Linux. C projects (still)
>> >outnumber them for several reasons.
>> >
>> >1. C is an easier language to learn to use fully, so you may get
>> > better participation on a C project because you're drawing on
>> > a larger population.
>>
>> This is a nit, and one I believe Nathan will agree with, but IMO,
>> it's not an easier language as much as it's perceived to be an
>> easier language. I mean, sure, C syntax is definitely smaller than
>> C++ syntax and such. But C programming involved more than just that
>> since a C programmer still has to learn general techniques, etc.
>> Also, even specific to C, I find the average C programmer does not
>> know C well. Probably fair to say that they more or less know some
>> subset enough to get by. Anyway, the bottom line is the C is popular
>> and will remain so.
>
>Well, the theory is that:
>
>int f(vector<vector<float> > array)
>
>is easier than
>
>int f(float **array)
>
>to handle for a beginner. The praxis is that what the C++ compiler
>presents you as error message for a slight in template related
>stuff is just horrible, and I wouldn't want to decipher that as
>newbie[1].
>
>-Andi
>
>[1] This is mainly for egcs, I don't know if other C++ compilers
>produce better template-related error messages.
I never said this isn't the case.
Ok, so you found a C++ issue. There's lots more. Lots.
Ok, let's take your case. I've taught intro C and intro C++
many times over the past 10 years. I'm convinced that for every
such undecipherable C++ diagnostic, there's a greater number
of C beginners who don't have a clue what to do with **array.
This is part of my point: **array isn't necessarily easier.
I wouldn't want to decipher that as a newbie either.
Even most people who would claim they are intermediate C programmers
don't get it right.
- Greg
--
Comeau Computing, 91-34 120th Street, Richmond Hill, NY, 11418-3214
Producers of Comeau C/C++ 4.2.38 -- New Release! We now do Windows too.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / Voice:718-945-0009 / Fax:718-441-2310
*** WEB: http://www.comeaucomputing.com ***
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg Comeau)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: 26 Jun 1999 22:57:28 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Justin Vallon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg Comeau) writes:
>
>> In article <7kscsl$s0h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> (Nathan Myers) writes:
>> >2. It takes substantial extra effort to code C++ libraries that are
>> > binary-compatible from one release to the next, so library version
>> > problems are incrementally harder.
>>
>> This is definitely a roadblock, but I wonder how many people actually
>> realized this when they started out? I would suspect not to many.
>> Luckily Standard C++ is out and at least for now binary compatible issues
>> are known and can be addressed by compiler implementors as they upgrade.
>> Of course, some compilers have done this more than others. :)
>
>Why would binary compatibility between compiler releases be an issue
>for the kernel? Don't you build the entire kernel under one compiler?
>
>Maybe for modules, but you'd extern "C" those, anyway.
>
>Or, are you speaking in general (libnifty.1, libnifty.2)?
Oops, yes, I was speaking in general. But too, if you have something
you were linking into the kernel that you wrote yourself, well,
it would need to be binary compatible, no? (I have not
followed LINUX kernel capabilities, but perhaps it it allows
say a dynamically loadable device driver, though could be an issue??)
- Greg
--
Comeau Computing, 91-34 120th Street, Richmond Hill, NY, 11418-3214
Producers of Comeau C/C++ 4.2.38 -- New Release! We now do Windows too.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / Voice:718-945-0009 / Fax:718-441-2310
*** WEB: http://www.comeaucomputing.com ***
------------------------------
From: "Michael Faurot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.mail.uucp
Subject: Re: Strange UUCP chat problem
Date: 26 Jun 1999 23:56:19 GMT
In comp.mail.uucp Chris Huston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: I'm running into a very odd problem with Taylor UUCP version
: 1.06.1-16...
: When executing UUCP with:
: "/sbin/uucico -f -r1 -s remote"
: the call fails with an error (in the error log) of "Chat script failed".
: Now, without making ANY changes to the system, I rerun uucico with
: debugging on
: "/sbin/uucico -f -r1 -s remote -x9"
: and it works fine... call succeeds with no problems... I added a "debug
: chat" line to /etc/uucp/config and calls succeed every time.
: Any ideas why this might happen? does uucp deal with the serial port
: differently when debugging?
I vaguely recall having a problem like this once. I believe the situation
was that while running in debug mode it slowed down the turnaround for
uucico, during the chat script, just enough to allow things to work.
When not in debug mode, uucico didn't have the overhead of generating
the debug output and was turning around the responses faster, which was
apparently buggering the device on the remote side (a BBN C10 X.25 pad
as I recall).
Try adding delays before the beginnings of each of your "send"
statements and see if that helps.
--
==============================================================================
Michael | mfaurot | Kitchen activity is highlighted. Butter up a friend.
Faurot | atww.org |
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: redhat.networking.general
Subject: Setting Linux up as a proxy server
Date: 27 Jun 1999 02:31:23 GMT
Hi.
I am wanting to set up Redhat 6.0 as a proxy server to serve cross
platform machines (Win9x, and WinNT) on my private network. I want all the
machines to be able to use the cable modem which is hooked up to the linux
box. I also want to be able to use everything on the net and not just http
and ftp.
Any help on what software to use or what I need to set up would be greatly
appreciated
Thanks
Patrick
================== Posted via SearchLinux ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg Comeau)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: 26 Jun 1999 23:06:42 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <7l37gc$sib$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
writes:
>Greg Comeau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers) writes:
>>>Ralph Glebe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> Are all the programs in C because: [speculation]
>>>
>>>There are quite a lot of C++ projects on Linux. C projects (still)
>>>outnumber them for several reasons. ...
>>>
>>>2. It takes substantial extra effort to code C++ libraries that are
>>> binary-compatible from one release to the next, so library version
>>> problems are incrementally harder.
>>
>>Luckily Standard C++ is out and at least for now binary compatible issues
>>are known and can be addressed by compiler implementors as they upgrade.
>>Of course, some compilers have done this more than others. :)
>
>I did not mean releases of the compiler, or releases of the standard
>library, both of which break binary-compatibility but will stabilize,
>eventually.
Ok, I thought that you meant these because....
>I meant releases of other libraries. Any time you change the layout
>of a struct, or (e.g.) add a new virtual function in a base class,
>you risk breaking code that depends on the library. The same is true
>with C libraries, but C lacks some of the language features that create
>a dependency, and people already know about those which do.
>
>It is possible to build C++ libraries that are safe for old program
>binaries to link to, but it's harder. For example, you have to be
>very careful about what inline functions and virtual functions you
>expose in the public interface, and be sure not to change anything
>between releases that those interfaces depend on.
>
>This is a maturity issue. As people become aware of the problems,
>they arrive at the same solution.
....this is "as usual" IMO. Not too trivialize them (they do exist
and do need to be aware of) but I've run into this many many many times
with C. Some of my best "laughs to the bank" (as they say), was as a
C consultant brought in to solve such issues when teams of others couldn't.
- Greg
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