Linux-Networking Digest #549, Volume #12 Sat, 11 Sep 99 07:13:25 EDT
Contents:
Re: Home network, wingate, linux as proxy, etc. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Redhat 6.0 & PPP Question ("Ross Crawford")
Telnet problems ("Stan Williams")
Re: SOHOWare Fast Auto 10/100 PCI -- Tulip ? ("Coral Sea")
Using redir to expose a web-server behind firewall? (Jason Rosenberg)
Re: SMC NIC driver problems ("Coral Sea")
security of filesystem on linux firewall (Jason Rosenberg)
Re: Browsers and Linux (Richard Steiner)
Re: Windows using PPP ("Ross Crawford")
Tulip cards in production? (Magnus Redin)
nic/pc problem (Sal)
Re: Browsers and Linux (Andre van Dijk)
Re: Browsers and Linux (Andre van Dijk)
Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100 with 2.2.12 (Helge Maus)
useing gnome-ppp with chap (Dupecheck)
Re: PPPd and weird /var/log/messages (Clifford Kite)
Re: SAMBA into Windows? Or make Windows comform to Linux? ("Donald Gordon")
Re: Accessing Linux server on a DOS client ("Donald Gordon")
Remote bridge with linux, again help please (Sasa S Baksa)
Re: Browsers and Linux ("Ernest")
Re: Using Win98 Proxy with linux ("Donald Gordon")
Re: Browsers and Linux ("Ernest")
Re: Browsers and Linux ("Ernest")
Re: Browsers and Linux ("Ernest")
Re: Browsers and Linux ("Ernest")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Home network, wingate, linux as proxy, etc.
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:48:27 GMT
I suppose wingate will work ok given you give it the appropriate IP
subnet mask and dns info. I have a cable modem too running on sygate
"like" wingate but I like it better:" everything works fine I can
connect to the internet retrieve e-mail. the only thing I cant do is
log on to my unix box from the outside "very good firewall" I cant
even get past it.
On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:12:48 GMT, Jason Rosenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I am interested in setting up a home network.
>Currently, I have a single Windows NT machine,
>connected to a cable modem. I am looking at
>expanding things, so that I will have a second
>NT workstation, an NT laptop (which will come
>and go), and eventually a linux system.
>
>I have been looking at using WinGate to access the
>cable modem from anywhere on the local net. I am
>wondering if linux (and other Unixes, Macs, for that matter),
>will work as clients to the wingate server, which will
>be one of the NT systems. The WinGate home page doesn't
>seem to indicate much support for varied client os support,
>but I am wondering whether it will work anyway.
>
>I am looking at WinGate since it has been highly recommended,
>and it seems easy to install and use, and it has firewall
>capabilities.
>
>Naturally, I am also interested in knowing what linux has to
>offer in terms as acting as my proxy server and fire-wall.
>I'm not too educated on linux to date, but I do have extensive
>experience with other flavors of unix.
>
>Thanks for any info,
>
>Jason
------------------------------
From: "Ross Crawford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Redhat 6.0 & PPP Question
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:00:35 +1000
Rob Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7BOB3.9930$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hello all, especially those with answers!
>
>
> modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-21
> modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-26
> modprobe: can't locate module ppp-compress-24
>
> On some occasions they repeat three or four times in the same sequence.
>
> Anyone familiar with this problem? Any ideas?
>
Rob,
Add the following lines to /etc/conf.modules:
alias ppp-compress-21 bsd_comp
alias ppp-compress-24 ppp_deflate
alias ppp-compress-26 ppp_deflate
Regards,
ROSCO
------------------------------
From: "Stan Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Telnet problems
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:42:15 -0500
When I telnet into my Linux box from my Windows 95 machine or from my NT 4.0
server, I connect immediatly but it takes anywhere from 75 to 90 seconds
before I get a logon prompt. Does anyone know what could be causing this?
Thanks
Stan
------------------------------
From: "Coral Sea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SOHOWare Fast Auto 10/100 PCI -- Tulip ?
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:06:24 GMT
Thanks to all who replied. I managed to get the tulip.c (v.0.91g) file
compiled once I got straightened out on my syntax errors (although one
friendly soul told me it was zero-six, not oh-six -- had to try that a
couple of times). However, after copying the tulip.o file into the
/lib/modules/2.2.5-15/net directory and rebooting, I still can't get the NIC
to see my LAN. I've duplicated the network settings in Linux that I use
with Win98 SE (which works flawlessly) so I'm 99.99% sure it's a
hardware/driver issue, not misconfiguration. However, when I run dmesg, the
output says that Red Hat Linux 6.0 is finding a Macronix card at eth0 and I
don't get any error messages when Linux boots up.
Could it be that the NIC is found by Linux but it can't transmit through the
card (which is what I suspect)? Does that mean I should throw in the towel
and buy a Tier I NIC? Or wait for the next version of tulip.c? BTW, I
tried the tulip.c driver that NDC provides (v.0.90) and the results are the
same. Maybe I'm not handling the tulip.o file correctly?
Paul Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Your -D_KERNEL_ s/b -D__KERNEL__; note that it is "2"
> underscores; if then you get a -Wall not valid option
> just remove it. The compiler seems to give some erroneous
> msgs when "certain" problems occur and it saying the
> directory is incorrect in many cases. BTW, it's uppercase Oh.
>
> On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:09:22 GMT, Y. T. Chow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Hhmm...everyone's having success except me. I downloaded the same
tulilp.c
> >file as Nina and tried to compile it using the syntax at the end of the
> >file. Following is a summary of what I did and the warnings and errors
that
> >I got. Can anyone spot a problem in the syntax or provide other advice
so I
> >can compile the tulip.c file? Thanks.
> >
> >1. Copied tulip.c (version 0.91) to /usr/src/linux-2.2.5/drivers/net
(that's
> >where Red Hat's version 0.89 was).
> >
> >2. Tried to compile tulip.c from it's directory location using the
following
> >syntax on a single processor PC:
> > gcc -DMODULE -D_KERNEL_ -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O6 -c tulip.c
[ -f
> >/usr/include/linux/modversions.h ] &&
> > echo -DMODVERSIONS'
> > (Note that I tried both zero-six and oh-six for "O6"; zero-six
generates
> >an error message so I assume it's oh-six.)
> >
> >3. The following error messages occur:
> > gcc: [ -f /usr/include/linux/modversions.h ] && echo -DMODVERSIONS:
No
> >such file or directory
> > tulip.c:100: warning: #warning You must compile this file with the
> >correct options!
> > tulip.c:100: warning: #warning See the last lines of the source
file.
> > tulip.c:102: #error You must compile this driver with "-O".
> >
> >I checked to make sure that I have the /usr/include/linux/version.h file.
I
> >'m assuming that the kernel source code is installed (although I'm not
sure
> >how to verify that) because I installed the Kernel Development package
when
> >I installed Red Hat.
> >
> >The error messages suggest a syntax problem (maybe I'm mistyping it?). Is
it
> >zero-six or oh-six? Are those apostrophes and are they in the right
place?
> >
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> I got my SOHOWare to work along with IP forwarding/masquerading. It's
> >> simply beautiful.
> >>
> >> Go to http://www.bmen.tulane.edu/~siekas/tulip.html to pick up tulip.c
> >> version 0.91g (the link says 0.91e).
> >>
> >> Alternatively, go to
> >> http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/drivers/tulip.html to pick up
> >> tulip.c v 0.91 (I did not try this one). From this page, there is a
> >> link to version 0.91g though.
> >>
> >> Follow the instruction at the end of tulip.c to compile the file and
> >> install it. Good luck!
> >>
> >> Nina
> >>
> >
> >
------------------------------
From: Jason Rosenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Using redir to expose a web-server behind firewall?
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:06:13 GMT
I am just reading through some of the HOW-TO's on
ipchaining and masquerading, etc.
I am thinking of setting up a home LAN. I ony have
1 ip address, and I would prefer to have things
secure, in general. I have a cable modem, based
on the @home service. Currently, I have just 1
NT system set up, and it is working fine with the
cable modem.
Soon, I will definitely have 2 Windows NT machines, and possibly
a third NT labtop (which will come and go), and I want
to start experimenting with a linux machine (probably an
Alpha Processor system). I will have a need for one of
the NT machines to be running IIS and be visible externally
on the internet.
I was considering having that NT machine be my proxy-firewall
server (using something like WinGate).
Alternatively, I would like to consider using the linux
machine as my proxy-firewall. But I wonder whether this
is possible. Can I still have a web-server behind the
firewall remain externally visible?
I still would need to have IIS server external internet
requests. Can the redir facility be used to direct
specific incoming requests to my NT machine?
Also, how secure would files be on the fire-wall linux machine?
Thanks,
Jason
------------------------------
From: "Coral Sea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SMC NIC driver problems
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:20:11 GMT
Is this what you're looking for?
http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/drivers/index.html#PCI under Pointers to
Other Ethercard Drivers:
Updated SMC Ultra / SMC EtherEZ driver for 1.2.13.
Now with Programmed-I/O (in addition to the original ISA "high memory")
support.
This driver update source file is for kernels 1.2.13 through 1.3.90. This is
a drop-in replacement for drivers/net/smc-ultra.c. The 2.0.0 kernels already
include these changes.
Written by me, Donald Becker.
Alex Kobryn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I have a SMC EtherEZ 10 ISA but it is an older model and has the 1660
> chipset, not the 8416 chipset. I've searched every networking page and
> HOW-TO that i could find, the only lead that i could find says that i
> need "smc-ez.c" for this chipset. Can anyone tell me otherwise or point
> me to the driver file, i have been unable to find it. Any help would be
> appreciated, thanks.
>
------------------------------
From: Jason Rosenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: security of filesystem on linux firewall
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:03:32 GMT
It looks like linux is good for being used as
a firewall. How secure is the filesystem of the
linux firewall system, itself?
I may want to use a single linux system as my
LAN firewall-proxy, and also use it for source
code development, etc., for which I would certainly
want complete protection.
Jason
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Browsers and Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:30:26 -0500
Here in comp.os.linux.setup, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andre van Dijk)
spake unto us, saying:
>Op Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:37:59 +0200 is het volgende aan Ernest ontsproten:
>
>>So, when then complain if someone posts at the top or the bottom. Just
>>get a better browser. Just remember - I have never complained about it.
>
>What has Usenet got to do with my browser? I'm using slrn to read news
>not Netscape or IE.
I don't think he understands (even at a fundamental level) what we're
talking about. Either that or he's being intentionally difficult.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Bloomington, MN
OS/2 + Linux + BeOS + FreeBSD + Solaris + WinNT4 + Win95 + DOS
+ VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
But which one is the fatherboard?
------------------------------
From: "Ross Crawford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows using PPP
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:53:26 +1000
Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On 9 Sep 1999 01:41:02 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh) wrote:
>
> Any word on not having to edit the secrets file everytime we add a
> user?
> ---
Let them all authenticate ppp using the same user (ppp-user or similar).
Then you only need 1 entry.
Regards,
ROSCO
------------------------------
From: Magnus Redin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tulip cards in production?
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:31:13 GMT
I am seraching for "Tulip" ethernet cards with Intel produced tulip-chip or
clones that work well and fast with Donald Beckers drivers and are in
volume production right now.
================== Posted via CNET Linux Help ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: nic/pc problem
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:31:14 GMT
I installed rh6.0 in my old pc pentium 90and then i installed a
linksys 10/100 etherfast .But i just can't make it work.
At this point I don't know whether it is a nic problem or a compatibility
problem between my OLD pc hardware and the nic.
i set it up as irq=10 and 1/o=0x300 and I'm using tulip asa driver.
i go to all the steps to configure it ie. Net config and kernel config.
i know i'm doing that part correctly.and it appears ok in
/etc/conf.modules >> alias etho tulip
options eth0 io=0x300 irq=10
However ifconfig -a never shows eth0
and ifconfig eth0 >> eth0:error fetching interface:device not found
Now, when i reboot i get a message that eth0 can not be initialized.
when i type dmesg | more some of the info printed says
Unknown tulip-style PCI ethernet chip
type 11ad c115 detected; not configured
RZ1000 IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 08
RZ1000 device not capable of full native PCI mode
RZ1000 devise disable (bios)
have no idea what that means. I tried disableing plug and play
and it did not work either.
================== Posted via CNET Linux Help ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andre van Dijk)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Browsers and Linux
Date: 10 Sep 1999 20:54:14 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Op Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:44:03 +0200 is het volgende aan Ernest ontsproten:
>
>John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Ernest writes:
>> > But, here the main server is internet. And, built round that.
>>
>> "The main server is internet"? I have no idea what that is supposed to
>> mean. The Internet is currently the primary transport medium for Usenet:
>> Is that what you mean? But then the Internet is also older than Windows,
>> and was for most of its existence very Unix oriented.
>
>All of it true. And of course Internet is a server that serves information the
>clients.
The Internet doesn't know about clients or servers, it knows about hosts.
Client or server is merely a role of a host.
>>
>> > There are many ways to capture data. As you rightly say one is cut and
>> > paste. May it be my preference or, must I follow yours?
>>
>> You can't use "my browser doesn't do it that way" as an excuse. And it
>> isn't a preference: it is a convention.
>
>And, you would noice that I have never complained nor exused my browser. I get
>the distict feeling that it is all the people that use Netscape that have been
>complaining and insisting. All the rest of use what we have.
Who talks about Netscape? I'm using Vim man.
--
Andre van Dijk
,----------------------------------+-------------+-----------------------.
| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | icq:4249631 | fax:(+31)(0)208833917 |
`----------------------------------+-------------+-----------------------'
You get your b*tch *ss in the kitchen and bake me some pie.
-- Cartman, South Park.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andre van Dijk)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Browsers and Linux
Date: 10 Sep 1999 21:03:06 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Op Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:37:59 +0200 is het volgende aan Ernest ontsproten:
>No, Usenet does not seem to have standards regarding top or bottom. They only
>ask you not to copy the complete quoted portion but, only the relevant part.
I believe there is, however stop whining `I can do whatever i want, i don't
want to do it your way.' I didn't see you reply to my *argument* about
readability. Do you agree that a consisent method of quoting increases
readability in long threads?
>So, when then complain if someone posts at the top or the bottom. Just get a
>better browser. Just remember - I have never complained about it.
What has Usenet got to do with my browser? I'm using slrn to read news not
Netscape or IE.
--
Andre van Dijk
,----------------------------------+-------------+-----------------------.
| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | icq:4249631 | fax:(+31)(0)208833917 |
`----------------------------------+-------------+-----------------------'
You get your b*tch *ss in the kitchen and bake me some pie.
-- Cartman, South Park.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Helge Maus)
Subject: Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100 with 2.2.12
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:00:01 GMT
Hi!
I have a problem when starting my kernel with my Intel EtherExpress
Pro 10/100.
It always hangs with this message "Sending BOOTP and RARP request
..."
I've looked for the creators page and I found a patch for 2.2.5.
But it don't works with 2.2.12.
Who has a solution?
Thanks,
Helge
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.iPartner.de
------------------------------
From: Dupecheck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: useing gnome-ppp with chap
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:06:28 GMT
Hi
I'm having problems connecting using chap in gnome-ppp
I can't see to connect to anything and when it says i'm connected, i'm
not
I can connect to servers that don't use chap easily, it's just that when
i try to use a server with chap it doesn't work
=====
Dupecheck
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: kite@NoSpam.%inetport.com (Clifford Kite)
Subject: Re: PPPd and weird /var/log/messages
Date: 10 Sep 1999 12:25:55 -0500
Habibi4me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I have a ppp connection to the internet through a modem. After the pppd
> makes the connection, my /var/log/messages file keeps getting bigger and
> bigger. When I checked the the /var/log/messages file, it looks like
> the pppd keeps dummping a "rcvd" and "sent" messages as seen below:
The messages come from pppd, just remove the "debug" option, maybe in
/etc/ppp/options, perhaps elsewhere in a connection script. You can
remove the proxy_arp option too, it's for allowing dialins to access a
local LAN not for dialing up to an ISP.
> Sep 10 09:05:17 toba pppd[26382]: sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x2 <addr
> 209.246.176.13Sep 10 09:05:17 toba modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate
> module ppp-compress-24
> Sep 10 09:05:17 toba pppd[26382]: rcvd [IPCP ConfAck id=0x2 <addr
> 209.246.176.13Sep 10 09:05:17 toba pppd[26382]: Cannot determine
> ethernet address for proxy AR
[Edited]
> Does anyone have any clues to this? Also why the "modprobe" complained
> that it could not locate the "module ppp-compress-24"
Add these lines to /etc/conf.modules
alias ppp-compress-21 ppp_deflate
alias ppp-compress-24 bsd_comp
alias ppp-compress-26 bsd_comp
--
Clifford Kite <kite@inet%port.com> Not a guru. (tm)
/* I gave up on politics when no matter who I voted for, I regretted it.
* -- Pepper...and Salt, WSJ */
------------------------------
From: "Donald Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SAMBA into Windows? Or make Windows comform to Linux?
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:16:23 +1200
>>Samba provides printer and file sharing. Do you need that?
>
>Yes. We want a local web server on the Linux machine that 3 Windows
>computers can access.
But filesharing is not webserving. Filesharing allows part of the linux
machine's filesystem be available as another drive on the windows boxes.
Webserving allows http://linux-box.something.com/ to be available to
web-browsers. You would use a webserver (like Apache) to achieve this.
The same machine can, of course, be both a webserver and fileserver and
printserver, but _there is a difference_.
Donald Gordon
>
>
>
>>>I'm trying to figure out whether to learn SAMBA on my Linux
>>>machine, to tie it into an existing Windows Networking system..
>>>OR... make the Windows networking system adapt to Linux.
>>>
>>>We've got 3 Windows machines networked together in a tiny office
>>>here. Everything works, but I'm converting all of our databases
>>>and therefore our whole way of doing things...
>>>
>>>All databases are being switched to Linux MySQL with all the
>>>administration and daily activities being done thru a web
>>>browser.
>>>
>>>The last step: set up a dedicated Linux machine here to be the
>>>"database server" 24 hours a day, and have the Windows machines (or
>>>Mac, or BeOS, or whatever...) - access the Linux machine thru an
>>>intranet web browser.
>>>
>>>Everything has an Ethernet card. 5-port hub.
>>>
>>>So - what do you recommend? Will I need SAMBA either way? Or skip
>>>SAMBA and do something to the Windows network to make it recognize the
>>>Linux machine?
------------------------------
From: "Donald Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Accessing Linux server on a DOS client
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:39:17 +1200
>I've got a DOS box and I want it to access my Linux server. What do I
>need to install on my DOS box?
mars_nwe (martin stover's netware emulator) works fairly well; using a DOS
netware client you can share the linux boxes files/printers easily.
don
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sasa S Baksa)
Subject: Remote bridge with linux, again help please
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:20:07 GMT
Is there a way to setup a remote bridge (two of them) using linux box?
I have done bridging with one linux box + 2 ether cards and it works
nice, but this should be 1 ether + ppp on both sides ( ppp link
betwen).
Sasa Baksa
------------------------------
From: "Ernest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Browsers and Linux
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:00:44 +0200
Maybe that should have been the topic of conversation "Why can't people stay
on topic?"
Jake Kesinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7r91nf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ever hear of ``topic drift''?
------------------------------
From: "Donald Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Using Win98 Proxy with linux
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:58:16 +1200
>really answered the question asked. Currently I am running Winproxy 1.4
>on a win98 box with a modem and access to the internet. What I am doing
>now on my Linux Mandrake 5.3 System is to just tell netscape to use a
>proxy - but that is limiting in a serious way, I can ONLY access the net
>through software that supports proxy's, so if i just want to telnet to a
>certain system on the net, that will not work.
>
>Any ideas?
Yep - use the Linux box as the router (with IP Masquerading) and let the
windows box access the 'net through that.
IP Masq is better than a proxy as it is transparent to the client usually
(and there is direct support for many common protocols).
Don
------------------------------
From: "Ernest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Browsers and Linux
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:06:19 +0200
So what, Nothing new. It won't be first time, nor the last. As long as you
don't force me to use your standard (unless the specific group has developed a
FAQ and have made it the standard to post in that group. And, until now, this
specific group have not have so. And, all of use are newbies in some form of
another. Or, are you now claiming you are not.
Ernest
Jeff Gentry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7r936q$tuk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Exactly. It has to do wit hcommunication. And the vast majority of usenet
> users communicate via putting the apropriate portion of text that they're
> replying to *above* their own. Thus, you are the outsider. The only
> thing you're going to get is ignored as you'll look like a newbie.
------------------------------
From: "Ernest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Browsers and Linux
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:01:22 +0200
And, if it wasn't for someone that up a round soccer ball (or football) in a
town called Rugby and ran with it, rugby (or gridiron) wouldn't have
developed. I still don't see the connection in forcing me to use your
standard. I thought slavery has been banned?
Ernest
Jeff Gentry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7r93jf$tuk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ernest ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> That being said, we were also "here first" and thus "our tools" defined
> "the standard". What do you think would happen if I made a baseball
> team, showed up at a stadium for a game and then demanded all the rules
> be changed? Are the people playing by traditional rules being
> arrogant? No. They're playing by the rules.
------------------------------
From: "Ernest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Browsers and Linux
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:39:24 +0200
That is all I expect. May I then request I never see the message to post at
the bottom again? Just ignore it!!!!
Ernest.
Richard Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> You're free to do whatever you want here, Ernest. But if you write
> messages which are hard to follow, fewer people will bother to read
> them, and that will detract from your overall experience here.
------------------------------
From: "Ernest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Browsers and Linux
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:12:13 +0200
Never been but, I was not the one trying to force others to conform to my
standard. All I said is that I will conform to this newsgroup's standard if it
can be showen in a FAQ for this group that it has been decided that my post
will be ignored if I don't conform to 'your' standard. Up to now I see people
respond anywhy to my standard and reply anyway. So, I still don't see why I
should be forced to 'your' standard.
But, what become a problem is a kind personal post I received (And I see you
tend to the same as this poster is reminding me of). And the post is as
follow:
>From Mario Frasca
<start quote>
Ernest, your message to which I am `replying' is quite interesting: you
use the convention of replying before the quoted question and you don't
snip anything from the original text.
the net result looks like this:
<your reply to Dave>
||<Norman's text>
|<Dave's reply to Norman>
since <Norman's text> is quite long, the text to which you are referring
is not visible on my screen as I read your text.
this does not demonstrate that your style is worse than the what other
people here do, it only shows that if you adhere to a different style
than the one originally used is a bit like behaving as that employee at
the information desk of Frankfurt Central Station answering in German to
a question formulated in English. that is, it requires more effort on
the side of the listener/reader.
if we go on this way, you could get something with this structure:
7
|6
||||3
||||||1
|||||2
|||4
||5
I would prefer either
||||||1
|||||2
||||3
|||4
||5
|6
7
or the opposite one.
I don't know if you were # 2 in this thread, in that case you could
assert that you decided the direction to follow, i.e.: reply<-question,
but if you look at the other posts in these newsgroups, you see that all
others follow the `question->reply' style. Something like starting
speaking German in a place where everyone usually speaks English. You'd
been asking for flames, you got them!
however, I believe we're definitely going off topic, what about
following to news.newusers.questions?
Mario
p.s.: I'm not following the convention Q->R because I'm not really
replying to the original post, just appending it to my post as a sort of
appendix, and appendixes are at the bottom!
Ernest wrote:
>
> So, who is stopping you asking? I don't seem to recall any posting asking
you
> to not ask questions. Can you show me the me-mail? As far as I know it goes
> about putting your reply after the quoted portion or before. Do you disagree
> with me?
>
> Ernest Bessinger.
> Dave Seyster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:td6B3.29973$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:57:47 -0400, Norman Levin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >I wonder where the 'custom' of answering after the
> > >question comes from? I've just be going thru some of
> > >my offline usergroups, and I've gone through a dozen
> > >appends that start with ">" and the same original
> > >question ... and I have to scroll down to see
> > >new stuff. If I'm really interested in the
> > >original append (and I can't remember if from
> > >the subject line), I can do that.
> >
> >
> > That "custom" derives from the fact that most humans are not psychic.
> > We need to know the question before we can respond.
> >
> >
> > Dave Seyster
<End quote>
Ernest.
Richard Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Is this a problem for you?
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