Linux-Setup Digest #485, Volume #20 Tue, 23 Jan 01 19:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: W2K in MBR + booting Mandrake from floppy: how to move to HD? (Frederic Faure)
Re: RH7 routing problem ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Rhat 6.1 Installation ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Newbie: Compiling Kernel (tolmeda)
Re: hdparm (tolmeda)
trouble booting win98 after installing RH7.0 ("C. Jarvis")
FA:IBM ThinkPad 365XD p133/24mb/1gb/cdrom/Linux (schlomo)
Re: W2K in MBR + booting Mandrake from floppy: how to move to HD? (Frederic Faure)
Re: Bash Command not found (djswift)
Re: Booting Linux (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
Screen Saver Not Working ("Les B. Labbauf")
Re: Connecting w/ the Exceed X server (Kevin Milburn)
LILO: What am I doing wrong? ("Miles McLoughlan")
Re: changing default max-files?? (*NOT* via echo to /proc) (David)
Re: RH7.0 - download of large file stops at 40MB (BCT)
Re: RH7 on an Asus A7V (Athlon CPU) (Carlos Moreno)
Re: LILO: What am I doing wrong? (Carlos Moreno)
Re: Rachel,this is it ("John L")
Re: LILO: What am I doing wrong? ("Miles McLoughlan")
Re: Screen Saver (Stevenson)
Re: Install several linux distributions on same disk ? (Rick)
Re: X Windows Resolution ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
changing console font via grub ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Easy Firewall Questions ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Delaying eth0 initialization? (Bit Twister)
gdm (Edwin Robert Tisdale)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frederic Faure)
Subject: Re: W2K in MBR + booting Mandrake from floppy: how to move to HD?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:11:37 GMT
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:09:19 +0100, Eric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>change this to boot=/dev/hda2
>then run `/sbin/lilo -v`
>
>now `dd if=/dev/hda2 of=bootsect.lnx count=1`
>and follow the NT bootloader howto
Thx... but Lilo after adding the two old (and unchanged) images=
sections : "Fatal: No images have been defined." Regardless, I copied
the boot sector from /dev/hda6 to bootsect.lnx, copied that to a
floppy, copied it as C:\BOOTSECT.LNX in the first NTFS partition, and
updated BOOT.INI to add this to NT: When choosing Linux, I get a blank
screen and nothing else.
/dev/hda6 is where /boot lives
/dev/hda8 is the root partition
Just for the heck of it, I also tried boot=/dev/hda8, but I get the
same error message from Lilo.
Any idea?
Thx
FF.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RH7 routing problem
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:27:10 GMT
Ok, so I'm not an expert--that part was a joke :)
However, this is how i FINALLY got my system working. If you want to
challenge the setup, go right ahead.
You are right about the 3c509 kernel module...in my excitement I made a
slight oversight. here is my module.conf:
alias eth0 3c509
alias eth1 3c509
options -o 3c509-0 irq=10
options -o 3c509-1 irq=11
My UNWORKING modules.conf looked like:
alias eth0 3c509
alias eth1 3c509
options 3c509 irq=10,11
take it for what you want, but my system works with these settings
And no, I'm using 2.2.16
Mike
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Linux HATES having two cards share the same module, ESPECIALLY the
> > 3c509s. My first step was to DISABLE PnP OS in my BIOS. I then
used
>
> No it doesn't. The 3c509's are something like 7 years old, and have
> worked fine, just always. There was a time about 5 years ago when you
> needed two modules for two NICs, but that's not been true for ages.
>
> > the 3C5x9CFG.EXE utility from 3com to alter the settings on my NICs
to
> > io=0x300,0x310 and irq=10,11. Also in the bios, I set those IRQ to
>
> Fine ideas. After all, how else would one talk to them?
>
> > LEGACY ISA. Once inside linux, I merely added a seperate instance
of
> > the 3c509 module for each card. It's this simple:
>
> Yes, but unnecessary. I believe that the 3c509 driver has handled
> multiple nics for years. Separating the irqs andio addresses is the
> only prerequisite.
>
> > alias eth0 3c509
> > alias eth1 3c509
> > options -o 3c509-0 io=0x300 irq=10
> > options -o 3c509-1 io=0x310 irq=11
>
> I don't believe you ..one of those parameters is not accepted
nowadays!
> Indeed .. these are all the params in the 2.2.15 driver:
>
> MODULE_PARM(debug,"i");
> MODULE_PARM(irq,"1-8i");
> MODULE_PARM(xcvr,"1-8i");
>
> and as you can see, "io" is not among them. So, what are you smoking?
>
> > once i rebooted, everything worked fine! respond if you have any
more
>
> Yes, where does this halucination come from. Come clean. You must be
> using a 2.0.38 kernel?
>
> Peter
>
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Rhat 6.1 Installation
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:34:54 GMT
I'm attemping to load 6.1 and after it installs the packages, it
proceeds into the post installation but neve returns. How long does
this normally take? Should I begin a new build?
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------------------------------
From: tolmeda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Newbie: Compiling Kernel
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:31:19 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Here is missing:
> make modules
> make modules_install
>
> >Then copied the bzImage to /boot
>
> and:
> copy System.map /boot/System.map-2.4.0
> ln -s /boot/System.map-2.4.0 /boot/System.map
>
> >Then add another pointer in lilo to point to the new bzImage
> >Then /sbin/lilo
> >Then reboot
>
> --
> Eggert Ehmke
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Can anyone explain what System.map is? I just upgraded my RH7 system to
2.4 with no issues but I don't remember seeing anything about
System.map.
Also, just a note...my modules didn't work correctly until after I had
(successfully) rebooted then ran 'make modules' and 'make
modules_install'.
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------------------------------
From: tolmeda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: hdparm
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:35:32 GMT
In article <94khn5$e0a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Eric Ho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Could someone teach me how to optimize my hard disk performance
> using hdparm ?
>
> Best Regards,
> Eric Ho
>
>
check out this link...
http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/hardware/hdtweak.html
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------------------------------
From: "C. Jarvis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: trouble booting win98 after installing RH7.0
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:34:57 -0800
Hello All,
I just installed RH7.0 and it boots and runs just fine. However,
I can no longer boot win98 from my harddisk. LILO gives me the option,
but when I select it, it says 'loading win' and hangs.
Also, any win98 boot disks that I have don't work either. The
floppy drive is accessed for ~30secs, then nothing happens. What's up?
I can see that all my win98 files are still where they should be
cause I mounted them in Linux.
Can aybody help me?
Thanks
Chris
------------------------------
From: schlomo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FA:IBM ThinkPad 365XD p133/24mb/1gb/cdrom/Linux
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:57:44 GMT
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1209819290
IBM ThinkPad 365XD Linux ............. [ThinkPenguine]
133MHZ CPU
11" Display
24MB Ram
1.0GB HD
Internal CD-ROM
External Floppy (IBM p/n 10h3980)
AC Adapter (IBM p/n 85G6709)
56K PCMCIA Fax/Modem
Two button mouse
External 1.0GB Sparq Drive including
removable cartridge w/ installed Linux driver
Linux Slackware 3.6 original 4 disc set included
Pre-installed software including Netscape 4.74,
Corel Wordperfect 8, and more...
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frederic Faure)
Subject: Re: W2K in MBR + booting Mandrake from floppy: how to move to HD?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:15:48 GMT
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:09:19 +0100, Eric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>change this to boot=/dev/hda2
>then run `/sbin/lilo -v`
>
>now `dd if=/dev/hda2 of=bootsect.lnx count=1`
>and follow the NT bootloader howto
>
>> default=linux
>> image=/boot/vmlinuz
>> label=linux-nonfb
>> root=/dev/hda8
>> read-only
>> image=/boot/vmlinuz
>> label=failsafe
Found what it was after spending more time searching on the web: The
original /etc/lilo.conf installed by Mandrake 7.2 has the default=
setting wrong.
As shown above, no section is called "linux". All you need to do, is
set it to eg. default=linux-nonfb, followed by the above instructions.
Thx much for your help!
FF.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (djswift)
Subject: Re: Bash Command not found
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:33:48 GMT
On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:55:12 -0500, "Roger Hawley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I am running Redhat 7 when I try sndconfig, xconfigurator, or linuxconf I
>get Bash Command not found. I am extremely new to this OS.
type 'su' at a command line, enter your root password and try again.
--
DJ Swift... djswift (at) nfx.net
AOL Instant Messanger... DJSwift14
"I can't deny its killing me, no one loses on TV."
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Booting Linux
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:55:50 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ed Collins wrote:
> Hello, there
>
> I just recently installed Linux 2.2.12 on a 486. Upon booting up the OS,
> many messages are displayed to the screen including the following:
>
> /dev/hda1 was not cleanly unmounted, check forced.
>
> Is this a problem? At this point the computer seems to be doing
> "something," what the "something" is I do not know. It seems like I'm not
> shutting down the computer correctly and the computer is trying to correct
> the mistake, but I'm not sure. Is something wrong going on?
>
> I would certainly appreciate anyone's reply.
>
> ed collins
>
>
There is nothing wrong, your electronic abacus is checking his file-system
because the shutdown was not correct. In 99%, this doesn't matter, but the
remaining 1% ..... .
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Auf der Donau 29
45139 Essen
------------------------------
From: "Les B. Labbauf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Screen Saver Not Working
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:02:34 GMT
I recently upgraded from Red Hat 6.2, to 7.0 and until the upgrade my
screen saver had worked flawlessly both under KDE, and GNOME. The
monitor does not power down, ie no power management, it just goes blank.
I have the following hardware:
AMD K6-3 motherboard, 128mb ram
Matrox G200 w/16mb memory
Gateway 15" vivitron monitor.
I can test the screen savers, and they appear without problem, it is just
when it times out the screen goes blank.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
------------------------------
From: Kevin Milburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Connecting w/ the Exceed X server
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:31:12 +0000
if you want to connect with exceed, and be prompted with
the login window, you will need XDM (or an alternative) running,
and XDMCP must be configured, and active..
in SuSE 7.0 XDMCP is disabled by default, Red Hat is probably the same.
check for something like the following in /etc/X11/xdm/xdm-config (or
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-config)
>!
>! SECURITY: do not listen for XDMCP or Chooser requests
>! Comment out this line if you want to manage X terminals with xdm
>!
>DisplayManager.requestPort: 0
also check the Xaccess file is configured correctly.
Kev.
David Knight wrote:
> I know people say "there are no dumb questions", but ....
>
> I would like to be able to connect to my linux box remotely from an
> NT/2000 machine running Hummingbird's Exceed X server and access my
> gnome desktop, etc.
>
> Everything works fine locally, but I don't get any response when trying
> to connect to it from Exceed... and I know the Exceed app is working
> because I can connect to other UNIX machines just fine... so I'm
> presuming it's a configuration change that needs to be made on the Linux
> box.
>
> I know this must be rediculously simple to do, but can someone tell me
> how?
>
> (I'm running the RedHat 7 distribution)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Knight
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Miles McLoughlan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: LILO: What am I doing wrong?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:01:03 -0500
I have Windows 2000 installed on hda1 and the linux (RH7) root on hdb1. I
have LILO loaded into hdb1. I have copied the hdb1 boot sector (via floppy)
to my Windows 2000 root folder (c:\) and put an entry in boot.ini. However
it hangs at "LI" when I choose Linux from the Win2k boot loader.
Can I boot Linux on hdb1 from hda1 in this fashion?
Miles
------------------------------
From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: changing default max-files?? (*NOT* via echo to /proc)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:36:28 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> How do I change the default max-files in /proc when I compile the
> kernel? (2.2.x)
>
> I asked this question about 3 months ago and nobody replied, I can't
> find any info on the WWW or in the kernel doc's (perhaps I'm not
> looking correctly)
>
> I'm definately not going to echo "65536" to /proc via the crontab
> (rubbish solution)
Then use /etc/sysctl.conf to do it.
--
Confucius say: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.
Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
ID # 123538
Completed more W/U's than 99.015% of seti users. +/- 0.01%
------------------------------
From: BCT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.redhat
Subject: Re: RH7.0 - download of large file stops at 40MB
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:29:14 GMT
Are you using PAM? If so, check the config files, such as
/etc/security/limits.conf.
----
Support provided by Linuxgruven, Inc.
www.linuxgruven.com
314-727-0918
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------------------------------
From: Carlos Moreno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RH7 on an Asus A7V (Athlon CPU)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:40:17 -0500
galactus wrote:
>
> I am running RedHat 7.0 ( upgraded the stuf like libgcc, glibc etc.. )
> A7V BIOS= 1005c ( disabled "PNP OS" in the BIOS )
So sorry about my previous message... I could have waited three
more minutes until after I tried it. Yes, one minute after I sent
the previous message, I tried changing the "PNP OS" setting, and
didn't even have to reinstall -- at the next boot, Kudzu popped
up telling me that it found new hardware: A Realtek RTL-8219
network card!! (Cool! It actually recognized it for what it
is exactly, and not as a PCI NE2000)
I did check booting Win2K again, and it seemed unaffected...
Thanks a bunch for the advice! It really made my day! :-)
Carlos
--
------------------------------
From: Carlos Moreno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LILO: What am I doing wrong?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:44:34 -0500
Miles McLoughlan wrote:
>
> I have Windows 2000 installed on hda1 and the linux (RH7) root on hdb1. I
> have LILO loaded into hdb1. I have copied the hdb1 boot sector (via floppy)
> to my Windows 2000 root folder (c:\) and put an entry in boot.ini. However
> it hangs at "LI" when I choose Linux from the Win2k boot loader.
>
> Can I boot Linux on hdb1 from hda1 in this fashion?
I'm not 100% sure, but I would advice that you do the opposite:
Have the boot loader of Linux prompt you (RH7 has a graphical
boot loader).
You first install Win2K (hda1), and then install Linux; tell it
to install LILO on the MBR of the first disc (hda); then boot
Linux, edit the file /etc/lilo.conf, and add a new entry, separated
by one empty line, with the following:
other=/dev/hda1
label=Win2K
(that last line starts with a TAB character)
That's it. You just run lilo, and you're ready to go with the
dual boot.
HTH,
Carlos
--
------------------------------
Reply-To: "John L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "John L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Rachel,this is it
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:01:28 GMT
arsehole
------------------------------
From: "Miles McLoughlan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LILO: What am I doing wrong?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:13:28 -0500
Thanks. Problem is that everything I read tells me not to do that since Win
NT/2000 doesn't like it. I'm pretty sure I can use the Windows loader, and
I'm almost there, but no coconut yet!
Miles
"Carlos Moreno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Miles McLoughlan wrote:
> >
> > I have Windows 2000 installed on hda1 and the linux (RH7) root on hdb1.
I
> > have LILO loaded into hdb1. I have copied the hdb1 boot sector (via
floppy)
> > to my Windows 2000 root folder (c:\) and put an entry in boot.ini.
However
> > it hangs at "LI" when I choose Linux from the Win2k boot loader.
> >
> > Can I boot Linux on hdb1 from hda1 in this fashion?
>
> I'm not 100% sure, but I would advice that you do the opposite:
> Have the boot loader of Linux prompt you (RH7 has a graphical
> boot loader).
>
> You first install Win2K (hda1), and then install Linux; tell it
> to install LILO on the MBR of the first disc (hda); then boot
> Linux, edit the file /etc/lilo.conf, and add a new entry, separated
> by one empty line, with the following:
>
> other=/dev/hda1
> label=Win2K
>
> (that last line starts with a TAB character)
>
> That's it. You just run lilo, and you're ready to go with the
> dual boot.
------------------------------
From: Stevenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Screen Saver
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:13:42 GMT
Les,
I dont have an answer, just an honest question.
I see several similar comments about 6.2 & 7.0.
Why did you upgrade (degrade) your system from 6.2 to 7.0?
Chuck Stevenson
"Les B. Labbauf" wrote:
>
> I recently installed Red Hat 7.0, upgrading from 6.2. Now my screen
> saver does not work. The screen savers do allow me to preview them, but
> when the screen saver activates my screen goes blank. It does not power
> off, but just goes black.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rick)
Subject: Re: Install several linux distributions on same disk ?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:30:16 GMT
Herman,
Thank you for the detailed reply. I had thought to install each
distribution sequentially. In that scenario, the third or fourth
distribution might have its /boot partition outside the 1024 cylinder
limit. In retrospect, since all the partitions are linux, it makes
sense that each distribution should be able to use a single /boot
partition. I'm looking forward to trying out some other
distributions.
Rick
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: X Windows Resolution
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:27:25 GMT
Ok, I just want to follow up for others reading this (or people doing
searches in the future, like I do).
The CTRL-ALT-+ and - didn't work.
This is what I found after messing with it for awhile:
What people running Red Hat 7 need to do is to go to the command prompt
(while running as root) and type "setup". Then select the X Windows
Configuration option. This will start up a program called "XConfigurator".
>From here you can select your video card (should auto-detect) and your
monitor. You don't have to mess with things like refresh rates and the like.
You then select your resolution. The program will then test it for you. BE
WARNED! If you are running X at the time (like if it starts at boot) when you
finish the program your X session will be all messed up. The only way I can
see to fix it is to hit CTRL-ALT-F1 to bring up a text console, log in as
root, and reboot the computer using the "shutdown" command (must reboot, just
like in Windows). That semmed to do it for me. Not as easy as MS-Windows, but
it worked.
---Olmydatch
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: changing console font via grub
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:29:53 GMT
All,
In my lilo.conf file I have an entry ...
vga=3843
this changes my console's font size.
How can I do this using grub ?
Thanks,
Fabian Wong
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Easy Firewall Questions
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:36:57 GMT
I have done a lot or reading on this but no where is there a clear
answer as to what kind of installation I should use for a firewall on
RedHat 7.x
Server or Workstation???
Another question:I have configured a rc.firewall file at:
http://www.linux-firewall-tools.com/linux/firewall/
Cool site by the way.....
It says to copy down the file with your browser and than to rename it
rc.firewall. No extentions on that?? Remove the html extention I
presume. Right???
One more question. My firewall will have a public IP address (Static)
and I will be NATing or masqing for my private LAN..... and this is
what I have as far as masq goes in the rc.firewall file. Is this all I
need? Seems too simple.
# Masquerade internal traffic.
# All internal traffic is masqueraded externally.
ipchains -A forward -i $EXTERNAL_INTERFACE -s $LOCALNET_1 -j MASQ
One million thanks you's from a guy who really wants to get LINUX under
his belt and is touching LINUX for the first time....
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bit Twister)
Subject: Re: Delaying eth0 initialization?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:55:57 GMT
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:15:39 GMT, Mike Loiterman
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Sorry about that...RedHat 7
What has rh 7.0 done that root cannot see /var/log/messages, do a
ls -al /var/log/messages to see who the owner is.
Here is a snippet I send to cable users.
linuxconf
Config
Networking
Client tasks
Basic host information cxxxx-x if + then cxxxx-x.city.state.home.com
Adapter set Enabled
Config mode <> Manual <>Dhcp
Node_domain cxxxx-x.city.state.home.com
ALias cxxxx-x
IP Address nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn
Mask 255.255.255.0
Network Device eth0 (cable to modem)
Accept
Named Servers
DNS usage [] DNS is required for normal usage
Default domain city.state.home.com -----.
ip of name server 1 nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn |
ip of name server 2 nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn |
Search domain 1 Default_domain_here <----'
Search domain 2 city.state.home.com
Accept
Routing and gateways
Set
Default gateway nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn
Enable routing []
Accept
Configure
[] Does not export any routes
Accept
Quit
Hostname search path
[] Multiple ips for one host
<> host, dns
Accept
Misc
Information about other hosts
(here you add info about other pc in the house)
Ok, Save. Activate changes and exit.
The Activate brought your network on line and connected
you to the internet if you are lucky.
/var/log/messages contains errors if any.
--
The warranty and liability expired as you read this message.
If the above breaks your system, it's yours and you keep both pieces.
Practice safe computing. Backup the file before you change it.
Do a, man command_here or cat command_here, before using it.
------------------------------
From: Edwin Robert Tisdale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: gdm
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:48:40 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I just configured XF86Config-4
with a virtual screen larger than the actual screen.
The problem is that, apparently,
gdmlogin places the login window
in the center of the virtual screen instead of
in the center of the actual screen
so that the user can only see part of it.
Can anybody tell me how to get gdmlogin
to place the login window in the center
of the actual screen?
Thanks in advance, E. Robert Tisdale
------------------------------
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