On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:40, you wrote:
> On Sunday 08 June 2003 16:20, Christopher Sawtell wrote:
> > I have been most impressed with Gentoo Linux, which is a kind of cross
> > between Linux and the *BSDs. They have essentially borrowed some of the
> > better ideas behind the *BSD Ports system while retaining the Linux
> > kernel etc. This allows _you_ to control the whole updating bit. They,
> > Gentoo Central -- for want of a better name -- control the ports tree
> > with extreme rigour, but do keep it up to date really pretty well, with
> > _working_ programs too what's more. If you want to cut yourself on the
> > bleeding edge then you can too. They now offer pre-compiled binaries.
> >
> > Certainly, Gentoo offers, in my experience, an infinitely superior method
> > of package management than either of the commonplace alternatives.
> >
> > Definitely a much less risky way of doing things than trusting that some
> > anonymous pfy has got everything correct when he built an rpm file.
>
> Seeing as the compilation / installation is automatic, I really doubt you
> go thru the code by hand first (no?),
Not first, but when I hit the very occasional problem, and the gentoo method
makes it not only possible, but easy.
> then how is this any better than a binary distribution?
Mainly because you can compile, and thus tune, the binary for any machine from
the same source -- PPC included.
> Is there a reason why one should trust Gentoo
> developers (or BSD developers, in Jim's case ;-) more than anyone else?
Not really, they are probably not much different from the *BSD folks, but
imnsho they are vastly superior to the .rpm coots. Now that we have urpmi,
the rpm distros are a bit better than they were, but from what I have heard
since I deserted the camp, the RedHat package management system is still
alive, well, and ready to shunt you into that cooker down in Hades whenever
it's offered the slightest chance.
<quote Webster>
Mandrake \Man"drake\, n. [AS. mandragora, L. mandragoras, fr.
Gr. ?: cf. F. mandragore.]
1. (Bot.) A low plant (Mandragora officinarum) of the
Nightshade family, having a fleshy root, often forked, and
supposed to resemble a man. It was therefore supposed to
have animal life, and to cry out when pulled up. All parts
of the plant are strongly narcotic. It is found in the
Mediterranean region.
</quote>
Do you really want to be associated with such a thing?
> Sure, installing packages (whatever form they be in) provided by your
> distro is a better idea than installing 3rd party apps, I'm not
> disagreeing. But how is Gentoo (or BSD) unique here?
>
> It seems Chris trusts Gentoo developers. And Jim trusts BSD developers.
> Well I just want to stick my hand up and say, damit, I trust Debian
> developers! ;-)
And I would support your absolute right to express your opinion.
> I would assert that official Debian (stable) packages are
> controlled just as rigourously, and of just as high a quality as any of
> these other systems. Would anyone like to disagree?
Debian stable has the reputation that it is so old that it is frequently
impossible to install a recent package because the libraries are not up to
date with the latest routines. "Years out of date" is probably a bit hash,
but neither is it too far off the mark. "stable"==="ossified" imho.
> Sure I could mess that all up by installing 3rd party apps (and frequently
> do, heh ;-) - but why can't I do that, compile 3rd party apps from source,
> on *BSD or Gentoo? hmmm?
You can, & I do, but less frequently than before because the Portage system is
being so fully populated. Subjectively, it seems to be growing at the rate of
dozens of packages a week.
> Just because your distro of choice provides official packages, controlled
> by those who control the distro (what a novel concept eh? ;-) .... that
> doesn't make your distro:
> a) unique
> or;
> b) better
>
> in any way that I can tell. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> </rant>
>
> Cheers,
> Gareth
>
> ps. all in good fun - I'm just as zealous as the rest of you (hey... where
> is Jason? can't we expect to see some Mandrake comments added to this? ;-)
I hope he gets going when he sees mention of the cooker in Hades.
Should be entertaining.
> I'm not trying to start a distro flame war, honest :-)
Oh? What a shame, I haven't see a decent flame way here for ages, they can be
great fun, and at the same time be pretty informative. Just remember to play
the argument, not the person.
> pps. I downloaded Knoppix for the first time the other day (on a 56k modem
> - so that should be 'the other week', heh ;-) via bittorrent. Bittorrent is
> impressive. Knoppix more so. My brother has a computer that will only run
> windows 95, we've tried and failed many times to install various versions
> of windows and linux - put the Knoppix CD in and it detected everything
> perfectly, sound,video,network, the lot - all up and running in about a
> minute. I was very impressed.
You forgot to utter the two most important words: 'Debian derived'. :-)
There are now several add-on scripts to Knoppix which allow you to install it
as is, and there is now a distro called Morphix which installs a very basic
linux to which you can add any package you want.
Both Knoppix and BitTorrent are Good Things (tm)
--
C. S.
