Re: GNU/Linux

[InfoHelp]

Thanks Nick, & best of luck in organising it.
I think there are problems with the framework, as to why it's left to 
you to try and organise this.

And standardisation has been attempted, around Mandrake, which I 
acknowledge. For MP3's & DVD's it could be the best choice. I don't know 
because I don't use them. Pitching at the home appliance market is 
playing M$'s game though, I'd argue, and what you are talking about 
below does much better than that - it offers career options.

So I guess we're agreeing on the need to up our game. CompSci students 
are the target audience, & we're wanting to organise a fee-free scheme 
(on the GPL) - which should grow the market, given the preponderance of 
computing in industry.

Is the choice one of which hook we use? Cheap entertainment, or skills 
for life? The young of today know the difference.

Just some thoughts
Cheers
Rik
Nick Rout wrote:
If you want to deepen knowledge of them thats cool, go fo rit. If you
want people to settle (as a group) on a stanndard set of tools then
dream oon. people use linux for choice, not lock in. Some people want to
use Intel's compiler, i believe it will compile the kernel.
OK if you want to deepen knowledge, which gnu tools shall we focus on
first?
*bash would be a good start, but command line tutorials are decried as
not newbie enough
*wget is very useful, but people seem only to want to know about gui ppp
tools
*autoconf, automake, gcc and make are hugely great, but most people
don't get beyond typing
./configure
make
sudo make install
if you do have to go beyond that it may be beyond the scope of a
shortish demo. nevertheless a tutorial on compiling software may be
welcomed, although it is hardly the visual stuff that good live demos
are made of.
What I think would be some scripting sessions - how to use the
commandline tools (gnu and otherwise) to do useful things like analyse
log files, archive mail periodically, download news from a webserver,
whatever.
I propose that we have two sessions. 

Part One is an intro to, say, bash, perl and python by three people with
knowledge of these things.
Part Two: compile a list of 5-10 simplish tasks and get the three people
who know what they are talking about to wite and speak to demo programs
illustrating how they would be done in their language.
On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:35:20 +1200
InfoHelp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

Please excuse my hangover, catching up here..
My post may not clearly have made it's main point, which Chad has drawn 
out -

By settling on a standard set of tools (the best deducible) & deepening 
the knowledge of them, CLUG would spend less time moving in circles.

Sharing a pointer from Jim last night, if I remember correctly, the GCC 
compiler tools were attached to "Linux" development *because* they were 
- & remain - the best available. The GCC compiler is a GNU product.

Bet on it not being outcoded.
Chad wrote:
   

InfoHelp wrote:
     

We start people out on Mandrake or SuSE (currently under debate), and this
used to be RedHat. The rationale for the transitions needs to be made
clear, as part of people's training, and for its future clarification.
       

From Mdk/Suse the capable new users will progress to Gentoo.
     

  

       

Thats overly broad I think many users just stay on those systems if they're 
not particullarly fused and just want a system that works and is easy to use. 
I'd describe the CLUG in general as being unusually "mobile" in their choice 
of OS.

I do not think theres any real order people move around with distro's. People 
choose what they want after deciding what they want to do with there computer 
and run it.

Debian seems to be the domain of those who don't mind a somewhat tricky setup 
because they'll never really have to bother with it again apart from to run 
the ocasional update and what an extremely stable machine often as a server.

Gentoo's for those who have the machines (theres no way it can be installed 
and maintained upto date on a 500mhz or less) and the time to customise, 
fiddle and a desire to learn more about linux as well as prefer cutting edge 
software.

While Mandrake/Fedora/SUSE are for those who don't want or who's computers 
aren't upto compiling gentoo but still want the latest and greatest software. 
Or simply because they like how the company produces that version.

LFS is for the real hardcore those who want to know every thing possible about 
linux and GNU and who have the machines and time todo so.

While the BSD's are for those who prefer to go even more UNIX than Linux or 
want extremely secure systems.


     

Is this Mdk/Suse-Gentoo-Debian trail real? - *Yes*. Is it the end of the
trail? - *No*. Beyond Debian lies BSD, MacOS, and our best guarantees of
keeping "Linux" OSS *free* against the pressure of the RedHat- Novell-
Xandros.. -M$ commercial dynamic. This is important, it is why we have
"Linux", and it is best targetted, imho, by acknowledging the GNU/Linux
flag. GNU/Linux offers the best roadmap to developing both the programmers
and the software essential to a *free* future.
  

       

As for MacOS X it's not helped Apple too much (probably because it's ppc 
rather than x86 and expensive (hardware wise)) and I note that Apple sold 
more iPods last year than computers. If any thing there seems to be more of a 
make Linux like OSX than move to OSX trend happening.

hm with the recent news.
MacOSX "borrows" all sorts of stuff from small companies. Then linux borrows 
the user interface ideas from MacOS X.


     

GNU/Linux User Group is precisely to bolster the efforts of this Gentoo
core. For the past year they have borne most of the organising work of CLUG
as a sub-group, & they urgently need help if "Linux" is to progress
locally.
  

       

More like those users who always were core to the group and pushed things 
because of there interest in linux etc moved to gentoo because it offered 
them a resonable compramise between MDK/SUSE and LFS. No doubt the rest of us 
should help more but gentoo's got little to do with it I think.


     

Let us dump our "Linux" prejudices post-haste, and acknowledge GNU/Linux as
the most market-ready & variegated FLOSS necessary to ensuring the future
of 'free computing'
  

       

As for GNU, Linux makes use of GNU tools the compiler and various other 
utilities and FSF ideas. But much of the OSS software (Kde, Gnome, OO.org, 
TheGimp) seems to have been developed firstly for Linux rather than GNU and 
should linux not have existed I'd doubt much of that software would. Linux 
would still no doubt exist with out GNU (after all there are other compilers 
and tool chains and any one can produce develop a licence (eg GPL theres 
enough of them after all and some are older than GPL)) but would GNU still 
exist or at least be as mainstream if it wasn't for Linux?

Chad
     

Rik
--
GNU/Linux Users - charting the course
prototype1: SuSE/Fedora-Debian/Gentoo/LFS-BSD/Hurd
--
GNU/Linux Users - charting the course
prototype2: Mdk/Fedora/SuSE-Gentoo/LFS-Debian/BSD/Hurd